Is it time to extend Mooney?

[UR Fan 2]

I know this will set many folks off so hear me out. This year we have a 25% shot at NCAAs. Next year, I calculate north of 80% (assuming no surprise departures). Mooney will be on the last year of his contract next year. I don't see him leaving before the end of next year. After next year he will be a hot coaching commodity again.

Waiting until mid next year to extend him is folly as he will see it as a snub, and likely will play out his contract. I think we almost have to extend him between now and March, and likely for 3-4 more years. 3 years probably means he leaves anyway (pending a successful negotiation on the buyout clause).

After the NCAA run next year the cupboard will still be relatively full. Crabtree, Burton, Wilson, Sal K, Woj, Goose, etc

So my prediction: Hardt announces a 4 year extension this April. Probably 4 years and somewhere north of 5M.

 

[spider23]

I will personally hire Moliva and Fezz and some other hard core fans to picket Jabba's office if he extends mooney. He is mediocre and the pool boy is his daddy.

 

[ur2K]

It would be a crazy to extend him before the end of this year, need to see if he can get the “best class” ever to the NCAA this season and if not, have to wait for the dust to settle with all these guys who will have other options going into their last years.

 

[9Legs]

Per the RTD this may be John Beilein's last year with the Cavs?-

Who would rather have Beilein or Mooney going forward?

Hopefully, Mooney will get an offer else where after his great year giving us a choice.

 

[AnnapSpider]

Per the RTD this may be John Beilein's last year with the Cavs?-

Who would rather have Beilein or Mooney going forward?

Hopefully, Mooney will get an offer else where after his great year giving us a choice.

How many P5 teams would be in line ahead of us? He didn’t leave Michigan because he had to.
Why would he even consider coming back to UR?

 

[Wood Hall]

How many P5 teams would be in line ahead of us? He didn’t leave Michigan because he had to.
Why would he even consider coming back to UR?

First, which P5 teams will need coaches? Start from there and see which jobs anyone of his stature would take.

Maybe he liked it at UR? Maybe he doesn't want to coach in cold weather again, or have to undertake a total rebuild project? Maybe a lot of schools are turned off by his age, or don't want to touch an NBA washout?

Dick Bennett came out of retirement to coach at Washington State because he figured it would position Tony to get his first HC job. Maybe Beilein would feel the same thing about UR and Patrick, after he rehabs his reputation. UR is certainly nicer than Wazzu.

Who knows how things work out? But I guess Mooney has to leave first; this season certainly has made him more marketable.

 

[MrTbone]

There is no reason to give CM. Four year extension, he’s already here through 2021, right? Maybe 2022, I’ve actually lost track...

He will likely get an extension that keeps him at four total years out so he doesn’t have that as a recruiting “obstacle”. I think there’s limited upside in signing him to more, if he catches fire and leaves we will hire someone with less baggage and lower salary leverage. If he is NIT successful or worse, it would be hard to argue keeping him.

He has limited to no leverage as I see it, unless we think we can’t stem a mass exodus.

 

[9Legs]

How many P5 teams would be in line ahead of us? He didn’t leave Michigan because he had to.
Why would he even consider coming back to UR?

Does his daughter(UR grad) still live here? Less pressure in his final coaching endeavor? He is tight with Bob Black- In an an interview with Bob Black he described Richmond as " some of his family's best times". Chance to get Patrick as an assistant to reinvigorate his career.

Then again you may be right, maybe the CURRENT UR would be "turn off"

 

[Spiders4ever]

He would retire for good before he ever came back here.

 

[fatherspider]

I know this will set many folks off so hear me out. This year we have a 25% shot at NCAAs. Next year, I calculate north of 80% (assuming no surprise departures). Mooney will be on the last year of his contract next year. I don't see him leaving before the end of next year. After next year he will be a hot coaching commodity again.

Waiting until mid next year to extend him is folly as he will see it as a snub, and likely will play out his contract. I think we almost have to extend him between now and March, and likely for 3-4 more years. 3 years probably means he leaves anyway (pending a successful negotiation on the buyout clause).

After the NCAA run next year the cupboard will still be relatively full. Crabtree, Burton, Wilson, Sal K, Woj, Goose, etc

So my prediction: Hardt announces a 4 year extension this April. Probably 4 years and somewhere north of 5M.

CM could have this years Baylor team and not have an 80% chance of the NCAA’s next year. What is our OOC schedule going to be next year? If its the same or similar to this year’s, then we have about the same chance as this year. If its a lot harder, then we still have the same chance as this year, since who knows if Mooney and the team can beat good competition consistently.

Lets take our chances. If we make the dance this year, I still dont see him getting a better offer than what he currently has. If he doesn’t but makes it next year, then flies, good riddance. We will be in rebuild stage anyway.

 

[DTSpider]

We’re so close to the contract expiring...it’s time to move on. Someone paid as a top 4 coach in a conference that gets 3-4 bids a year shouldn’t go 9 years between ncaa bids. Grabbing one at the end isn’t enough. Would need 3 in 10 years at a minimum.

 

[Wood Hall]

Does his daughter(UR grad) still live here? Less pressure in his final coaching endeavor? He is tight with Bob Black- In an an interview with Bob Black he described Richmond as " some of his family's best times". Chance to get Patrick as an assistant to reinvigorate his career.

Then again you may be right, maybe the CURRENT UR would be "turn off"

By many widely-accepted measurables in higher education, there has never been a better time in history to attend UR. Our national profile for academics, affordability, campus living, student enjoyment, academic rankings, degree value, overseas study, etc., has never been higher.

If "Current UR" is code for "too liberal," he coached at Michigan, one of the most liberal (whatever than means) public universities in the country.

 

[SpiderGuy]

I know this will set many folks off so hear me out. This year we have a 25% shot at NCAAs. Next year, I calculate north of 80% (assuming no surprise departures). Mooney will be on the last year of his contract next year. I don't see him leaving before the end of next year. After next year he will be a hot coaching commodity again.

Waiting until mid next year to extend him is folly as he will see it as a snub, and likely will play out his contract. I think we almost have to extend him between now and March, and likely for 3-4 more years. 3 years probably means he leaves anyway (pending a successful negotiation on the buyout clause).

After the NCAA run next year the cupboard will still be relatively full. Crabtree, Burton, Wilson, Sal K, Woj, Goose, etc

So my prediction: Hardt announces a 4 year extension this April. Probably 4 years and somewhere north of 5M.

I haven't posted on this site since last year, but this post brings me back. Please provide your metrics and analytics to support your statement "Next year, I calculate north of 80% (assuming no surprise departures)." That would be fascinating to see. Look, this year has seen an improvement, but we got blasted by Radford and struggled to beat a horrible Fordham team. This is the same CM. Think about it. We get destroyed by physical teams year in and year out, and there is no change in his philosophy nor the results for that this year. It's time to move on from Mooney. How much is enough?

 

[Gospiders06]

Its going to be nine years without a tournament bid. We arent going to beat VCU. We barely beat a terrible Fordham team. Falling short this year again of a tournament bid. Thats a message to move on. Dont extend.

 

[wr70beh]

He shouldn't coach another year after this one. This season has been nothing but a tease.

 

[Monkeyhouse2]

Congratulations, this post got me to comment on a thread for the first time in many years. I almost posted a thread titled "Fools Gold" after the first couple of wins but decided to hold back.

But the idea that he should be extended after years of underperforming teams, unpreparedness, and bad in-game decision making is ridiculous. It's a miracle that he's lasted this long, and as posters on this board closer to the program than I nowadays are fond to point out, it's more who you know than how you perform. I pray another team sees a single NCAA birth and is foolish enough to hire him away. Can't see it happening unfortunately. But to lock the guy up? He's looooong overstayed his worth.

I see our talented roster from another perspective. Now is more of a time to make a change! The cupboard is not bare, we have talent and our program is a more desirable coaching destination than it has been in more than a decade. We actually could attract better talent now (or after next year's contract expiration) with a proven young coach looking to take a next step, rather than a lesser option is walking into a mess. No coach with options would have looked at the UR job as a desirable spot these past years.

 

[spider23]

LIKE!

 

[Eight Legger]

Mooney has recruited better and coached better on a shorter leash with less time remaining in his contract. Imagine how well he will do when there are only a few months left on it!

 

[Spiders4ever]

Per the RTD this may be John Beilein's last year with the Cavs?-

Who would rather have Beilein or Mooney going forward?

Hopefully, Mooney will get an offer else where after his great year giving us a choice.

I think I have it pegged.
Rhoades to Temple
Mooney to VCU
Beilein back to Richmond.
Yep, all figured out.

 

[Gallipoli]

Mooney for life. The future is bright. Great things are ahead.
#M4L.

 

[Packers66]

Is it April 1st? This thread must be a joke.

 

[spiders13]

zero chance Beilein is coming back here.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I know this will set many folks off so hear me out. This year we have a 25% shot at NCAAs. Next year, I calculate north of 80% (assuming no surprise departures). Mooney will be on the last year of his contract next year. I don't see him leaving before the end of next year. After next year he will be a hot coaching commodity again.

Waiting until mid next year to extend him is folly as he will see it as a snub, and likely will play out his contract. I think we almost have to extend him between now and March, and likely for 3-4 more years. 3 years probably means he leaves anyway (pending a successful negotiation on the buyout clause).

After the NCAA run next year the cupboard will still be relatively full. Crabtree, Burton, Wilson, Sal K, Woj, Goose, etc

So my prediction: Hardt announces a 4 year extension this April. Probably 4 years and somewhere north of 5M.

I agree - I think he gets some sort of extension after this season. I might only go 2-3 years, but that is up to Hardt and company to decide. If we consider ourselves a top tier mid-major program or aspire to be one - you can't let coaches contracts expire. That is something lower D1 and D2 and D3 schools do to save money or athletics is not a priority. If the administration allows him to coach on an expiring contract - just add it to the list of items that shows UR does not want to be a top notch athletic program.

Where I disagree is I think after next season - the cupboard becomes pretty bare again. And we will have to reset and how long will it take this time?

Goose and Woj are good role players, but I don't see them stepping up to be guys who can fill in for Sherod, Francis, etc. Same with Grace and Sal - they are nothing more than role players, and that past 2 years and especially this year - I have seen nothing from them that tells me the future is bright. Burton right now is the only exception - he is athletic enough to make the leap to be an all-league player - but still has a lot to work on. He has the potential, but my fear with him is that next season how many more minutes get he get? He really will only see significant time if Sherod or Cayo get hurt or play poorly. Otherwise - i think he stays at about 15 minutes a night. Then when everyone graduates - he will be thrust into playing 30 + a night, which I think he will do well - but even that will be a big transition for him to go from bench player to basically leader of this team from a statistical standpoint. Yes - other frosh will come in, and they all look good now in their highlight videos - but we will have to wait and see when they step on campus how good they are and how they can help.

Beilein - I think he retires after the Cavs or waits for his son Pat to get a head coach job again, and maybe joins him on the bench. Wouldn't it be a story that his only assistant coaching job would be with his son? But in reality - I don' think he gets fired this year. I think he is doing exactly what the Cavs want him to do. Lose games to try and accumulate draft picks over the next 2 years. In a way - its tanking, but they are doing it in a respectful way almost - by hiring Belien, I think they knew the situation would overwhelm him and if he could just change the culture needle a little bit - it would be a win. They get draft picks, they get a minor culture shift, and maybe in 2-3 years - they have a roster of good young talent to pass on to a seasoned NBA coach. Hate to say it - but thats what it looks like to me. Not bad for JB - he gets a fat paycheck and can mark NBA coach off his bucket list.

 

[VT4700]

Where I disagree is I think after next season - the cupboard becomes pretty bare again. And we will have to reset and how long will it take this time?

I don't think we will need to reset. It seems reasonable to think Wilson could continue our high level PG play. Jake and Andre keep getting better and better and both have the games to take it up a notch. Crabtree looks athletic and could be a similar player to Burton, who we already know is headed to greatness. Sal and Grace, if not starters, will be key reserves with size who will not hurt us when out there. One of them might even be ready to start in 2 years, but if not, this only leaves getting a big to replace Grant. Easier said than done, but adding one would keep us keeping on 2 years from now. Plus, we are after some good looking talent, and will likely add some guys who see a chance at early playing time and could help us right away.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I am just a little more cautious about guys like Jake and Andre taking that next step. It seems to me that guys under Mooney rarely develop. All of the best players on his teams have been guys who have played a lot of minutes and put up good stats since day 1. The only one who really didn't was Harper - he played 8 minutes his frosh year, then jumped up the next two years and took a big leap his senior year. Just about everyone else follows the same path that they play a lot as frosh, get good minutes and numbers and continue that for 4 years. But to avoid those long rebuilding years - you need those guys, like an Andre, Jake, or Sal/Grace to take that next step when its their turn. Not all will of course - but you can't strike out on all of them.

 

[Gospiders06]

You would think the season was over. Still a ton to play for. However, we focus on the future. The future is always brighter. It should be this year and next year. I never put too much stock with Mooney he continues to fall short again and again....

 

[Eight Legger]

It should be this year and next year.

This, x 1000. It needs to be both years. No more waiting for a bunch of guys to figure it out as seniors. Figure it out now. We have every opportunity right in front of us and we control whether we make the tournament or not. We are more than capable of getting it done.

 

[UR Fan 2]

Like I said we have a 25% chance this year and an 80% chance next year of dancing. Based on my neural net simulations in Feb 2020.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

I agree - I think he gets some sort of extension after this season. I might only go 2-3 years, but that is up to Hardt and company to decide. If we consider ourselves a top tier mid-major program or aspire to be one - you can't let coaches contracts expire. That is something lower D1 and D2 and D3 schools do to save money or athletics is not a priority. If the administration allows him to coach on an expiring contract - just add it to the list of items that shows UR does not want to be a top notch athletic program.

When - not if - Penn State makes the tourney this year, we are talking about extending the only coach in all of Division I who has missed the tourney 9 consecutive years.

That would be pretty high on the list of items that shows UR does not want to be a top notch athletic program.

 

[urmite]

So here is my prediction: We announce an extension on March 23rd, if (not when) it is following a victory in the 2 previous days...

 

[Eight Legger]

It's possible (probably likely) that there are some lower-level D1 coaches who will have missed the NCAA nine years in a row at the same school, but Mooney would be the only one from the top-7 leagues (100 teams) to have done so consecutively with the same program during that time if it happens this year, that's correct.

 

[GKiller]

So this isn't just a massive troll job? A few things...

• next year is not Mooney's last year on contract anyway, he has 2 left. Last year of original 10 year deal but a couple years ago we inexplicably we gave him a 1 year extension (with apparently no buyout # on that last year even tho he had no leverage).
• It would take back to back NCAAs for Mooney to have p6 interest. He's not a commodity at all, even if we kept him and he made it next year. He could have some interest going to a lower level that's it.
• So we extend him now but don't announce until April? Ok that's a very common practice
• 80% u r welcome to make up your own numbers but we've never had a 80% chance any year. Granted a different coach with same team and I believe our numbers would increase.

Nothing will happen either way until we see what we do this year. Even big hat no cattle Jabba the Hardt ain't that dumb. He'd need a straightjacket if he's handing out 5 mil extension. UR Fan 2 I thought u were a reasonable poster here but I'm worried for your health.

If Mooney doesn't make it this year that's 9 straight years without NCAA. On top of what may very likely be a 6-20 record vs. VCU. And the 9th year is arguably the worst year of his entire tenure, not making NCAA with the best class ever and one of the top teams in last 50 years. Worst coaching in last 50 more like it.

We are doing less with more than any program in the country. An extension is mind boggling really.

All that said I still expect to make the NCAAs. Go Spiders. No excuses. NCAA or bust.

 

[UR Fan 2]

My bad on the 2 years left versus 1 year. I stand by my 80% calculation. In October of 2020 log on to teamrankings.com and see if they concur.

 

[UR Fan 2]

Teamrankings currently has us as 20% probable on getting an NCAA bid this year.

 

[GKiller]

My bad on the 2 years left versus 1 year. I stand by my 80% calculation. In October of 2020 log on to teamrankings.com and see if they concur.

They won't. how about a little wager...will give u 2 to 1 odds.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

It's possible (probably likely) that there are some lower-level D1 coaches who will have missed the NCAA nine years in a row at the same school, but Mooney would be the only one from the top-7 leagues (100 teams) to have done so consecutively with the same program during that time if it happens this year, that's correct.

I stand corrected. Thank you.
Greg Kampe (Oakland) last went to the NCAA in 2011. Horizon League. Been there forever (3rd longest-tenured coach in D1). Better record than Mooney.
Ron Cottrell (Houston Baptist). Southland Conference. Was an NAIA school when Mooney's tenure began. Full transition to NCAA D1 was completed in 2011-2012.
Chris Mooney

There's your list. At least we know where the bar is.

 

[Eight Legger]

And hey, Mooney beat Kampe a few years ago in the NIT! That should mean Kampe must get canned first, or something.

 

[UR80sfan]

Mooney's recruiting has improved significantly over the past 4 years which, despite no seniors, has lead to us to having a very high quality team that is considered a bubble team for the NCAAs. If we get everyone back next year and add Crabtree we potentially could have the best team in the history of the school. There is no way the athletic department is going to want to mess that up. There is a very high probability that Mooney gets an extension. I give it 75% this year and 95% if you include next year.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Gotta keep up with Oakland and Houston Baptist. There is no way we want to mess that up.

 

[whampas]

Extend him with a $1.95 buyout. I'll personally kick in 2 bucks if things don't work out.