sadly you have a good memory .. the Charleston game which I saw live was as painful as last night
GW in Foggy Bottom Game Thread
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8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
The 'Cuse game there was very little scoring in the last couple minutes of regulation. I do recall Tyler missing a free throw in the last minute or so that would have been the game winner though.
But yes Charleston we had a 3 point lead, Goose fouls their best shooter on a 3 point attempt and he sinks all three to force OT where we lost. Last night up 3 very late, Goose fouls Bishop for the And-1 which ties the game up and we lost in 2OT again.
Add in the terrible foul in the St. Bonnies game, where he intentionally fouled a Bonnie player down two with like 50 seconds left. Believe there was another game, where he had a similarly egrecious foul in an end of game situation that cost us. That is at least 4 games this year he has made a terrible end of game foul that cost us, essentially the game. How many more do we have to see? Goose cannot be in there at end of game situations, he has shown us time and time again that he lacks the game awareness to be in there.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
I really try to be positive about the players and give them the benefit of the doubt but yes he has had too many seriously questionable defensive plays to close out these games. It is magnified by the fact that he is supposed to be one of, if not our best "defensive specialist"
It is probably too late in the season for Captain Moonie to change course with that though, he is a trusted senior so he will continue to get his 30 minutes of run a game come hell or high water. Just gotta hope that he doesn't have a lapse like that when it really counts in Brooklyn.
Bailey played solid defense. Any comment to the contrary isn't true. It was apparent by watching the game.
However, this is a classic example of the case that I have made on this forum previously. A great scorer IS NOT stopped by good defense. A good defender (or team) can certainly make it more difficult for a scorer. You can impact a scorer's rhythm, keep him away from his favorite spots, make him work extra hard, try to alter their shots, etc. But, when a scorer gets "on," defense does not shut them down. Good defense may alter a couple of plays, but it does not prevent the scorers ability to score. When a good shooter (not your average player) is hot, they are going to score.
You hear it all the time (we held him to 6, etc.), but it is false praise. No doubt, great scorers can have an off night, certainly they can play poorly. But, give a great scorer the ball and get out of the way. This is what I saw last night. Good defense by Bailey, but the GW guards had their confidence, and they were not to be denied.
However, this is a classic example of the case that I have made on this forum previously. A great scorer IS NOT stopped by good defense. A good defender (or team) can certainly make it more difficult for a scorer. You can impact a scorer's rhythm, keep him away from his favorite spots, make him work extra hard, try to alter their shots, etc. But, when a scorer gets "on," defense does not shut them down. Good defense may alter a couple of plays, but it does not prevent the scorers ability to score. When a good shooter (not your average player) is hot, they are going to score.
You hear it all the time (we held him to 6, etc.), but it is false praise. No doubt, great scorers can have an off night, certainly they can play poorly. But, give a great scorer the ball and get out of the way. This is what I saw last night. Good defense by Bailey, but the GW guards had their confidence, and they were not to be denied.
Agree Not-a-homer, I posted the starting back court stats on another thread - which look terrible, but especially down the stretch I thought Dji played really solid D.
Correct, no way Moon man makes an adjustment. He has already pushed the narrative all year that Goose is an "elite defender", plus Goose is a 5th year player. I kind of feel bad for Goose in a way, Mooney put this mantle on him, and he could never live up to those expectations.
Knowing the season is for all intents and purposes over, I would reduce Goose's role in a bit, still start him if you want, but maybe give him 20 minutes instead of 30 and absolutely can not be in there for end of game situations anymore. Play Randolph, Roche and Dji a bit more together, Nelson too if he gets his act together. Those guys are our future.
What's false? I didn't say Dji got cooked for 35. You, in your continuing need to get on Nelson amd make sure Dji is never ar fault for anything, act like Nelson did in his 10 minutes on playing time last night.
The fact that Nelson only played 10 minutes last night in a double overtime game really tells you all you need to know what Mooney thinks of his play. He's lost right now, actually respect Mooney for just giving him small minutes of time, in the middle of the game to try and get his game right.
In my mind, Nelson should be our starting PG, because he fits the Mooney mold, but right now, he just can't be the starting PG because he has lost all confidence in his game. I love seeing Dji getting his chance right now, dude has been hurt so much, he has abilities and is getting a chance to show us what he can do. He absolutely needs to be more assertive and looking to score though. Maybe the end of game and OT gave him a bit of confidence to be more assertive, we need that.
I took up for SDad awhile back when a poster said he should should never post on here, but that was when SDad was about the team and not Dji this and Dji that. He said he could handle criticism and wanted everyone to post honestly about Dji. So, I thought, okay, this might be okay. Now? He posts with so much bias, he criticizes our other players, and he DEFINITELY can't handle the slightest negative thing said about his son. And, the rest of the board rallies around him, so any negative comments about his son will get attacked by others as well, while he and others still criticize our other players every game.
Only inside of 4 or 5 seconds. If you foul with more, and they make their FTs, they are now only down 1 with plenty of time left. So, they can either get a steal or foul. If they foul, we now need to make 2 just to get back where we were.
No, much wiser to intentionally foul on a made layup much closer to the end of the game, as we did...
he played 46 mins last night. He's not going anywhere. his usage rate on D will put in those spots. none lost the game. he's made ton of stops. yeah he wants some back (the bona one I've said was a gaffe) but objectively as far as critical mistakes last night I'd put his foul behind 2 others I've already mentioned.
Also u don't play for next year, bad for program culture, u still have to give best odds possible for A10 which means no Tuesday game, and in era of portal & teams looking different year to year u don't know what future looks like anyway. & goose to me is 1 of our best overall players & great defender no questions asked so I play those guys.
u r very hard on the players, Golden, Goose, u loved Wilson tho, u outright called for a player to transfer. & that's fine whatever. I just find it strange that another poster gets so much crap for his player criticisms. But I know the reason. It's bc he's a Mooney backer. If he wasn't nobody would be as upset of his takes. Look we all know i don't agree with his Mooney can do no wrong mindset but that's a big part of it.
I like that Goose got out to Bishop and made him drive. but once he's beaten there ... let that go. I know there's no time to think, but man. we're up 3. there's no chance to block that from where Goose was. other than that he had a solid game.
I can't explain the Quinn layup. he made a great move. can't get more open. just have to focus all the way to the finish.
Grace was flat out terrific. so was Bigelow on both ends. really all the non-Burton guys played well ... and I hate that it falls on Tyler who was playing hurt. he's our star and he's tough and he wants to be out there. he definitely made some plays in the 2nd half. but 4-16 is a killer.
in OT (or 2nd OT) Mooney went huge with Goose, Tyler, Bigs, Grace and Quinn. I don't like that against a team hitting shots with Bishop and Adams. but I guess nothing else was working.
another sub issue ... we were going to Quinn and he was drawing fouls. Dean got his 3rd and had to sit. so we sat Quinn? I get he needs a break, but go back to it. GW has no size depth. Brown ended with 4. would love Lindo defending Quinn to draw his 5th.
I think if Dji were in our plans at PG, we would have seen him more at PG long before Nelson lost his starting spot. I agree Nelson is our best option at PG because I think we have seen both players upside and Nelson's is better. And, is Dji even playing PG right now? He played 29 minutes and had 1 assist in a game where we scored 105. I think we are just kind of getting by at that spot right now, whether it's Nelson, Goose, Randolph, or Dji, and that's unfortunate at such an important spot.
Patsos was talking about that as a masterful Mooney move, and I was immediately like wtf. If the starting defender has to sit, you take advantage of the backup!
G, we have had our disagreements and will probably have more, but I appreciate your honesty about this ongoing issue on here. I think a lot of others probably feel the same, but are afraid to say anything.
Your gonna die on your sword, which is fine I can respect that. Goose cost us opportunities to win in 4 games this year, that is a fact. We can debate the "eliteness" of his defense cause that is subjective, his lack of game awareness in end of game situations is really not though cause we have these quantitative examples.
You establish credibility on the message board through the overall body of your work. So, maybe I don't get called out as much as some other posters despite having similar content, cause maybe other posters see the same things. I'm not always right, was wrong on Grace, admitted that, also how you establish credibility, admitting when you are wrong (ahem Mooney). So yeah, Golden was often a turnstile on defense, Goose is a good defender, not great. Dread has played like 2 minutes this year, so kind of reasonable to suggest he might be looking at the portal and why would be using up a roster spot on a guy who can't get on the court. Those things that I point out, it seems like other posters agree with them. So maybe your issue should be less with me and more with all of the other posters on here for not jumping all over me, as you would like.
What run??? We were down 17-10 when Nelson entered the game. Was that early deficit his fault? When he left 6 minutes later, we were down 5. Then, at the end of the 1st half, he came in when we were up 3, and we went to halftime up 2. In the 2nd half, I think he only played a couple minutes and we got outscored by 4. Wow. What a game changing run that was. So, he played maybe 2 of 30 minutes in the 2nd half and both OTs, we give up 72 points in those 30 minutes, and you blame Nelson for this 4 point, 2 minute run GW went on? Unbelievable.
we fighting each other when the problem is Looney. Redirect this negativity onto him guys come on
I think Dji can absolutely be an effective PG here under Mooney, but he needs the right lineup around him.
just like I think Goose was a very effective SG with the right lineup around him, and is less effective this year. it's neither players fault. Mooney has to get the roster and lineups right to make it work.
I actually like (for next year) a Dji/Nelson backcourt. I think Nelson can be a shooter/scorer. Bigs is shooting much better from 3 recently. add Roche at the 3.
When up 3 and the opponent has the ball with no shot clock, I start keeping the intentional foul in the back of my head.
First you try to make them run clock, then you don't foul outside the 3 point line.
But once they start driving down the lane, my first thought is go for the steal without worrying about the foul if you can do it without the and 1.
Maybe I have more confidence in our inbounding and FTs than I do our interior defense?
Then again maybe it is just me being a 40 season + spectator and never being a coach...
I can't remember but I assume we were in the double bonus. agreed Goose could have grabbed Bishop once he knew he was beaten. anything better than the slap on the shoulder on the shot from behind.
I assume Bishop would make both so really no better than letting the layup go, but you never know.
Why would (ahem, Mooney) mean admitting I was wrong?) Does that mean others should have admitted anything is 2020 or 2022? Yes, I wanted Mooney to stay after the 20 loss seasons. We went 24-7 the following year and I am supposed to admit I was wrong??? Everyone got on our coaches and players last year. I kept believing. Was I supposed to admit I was wrong then too?
By saying I should admit I was wrong about Mooney tells me a lot about you. You say your opinions like they are fact. But, it is just your opinion that Mooney should be fired. We had great success 2 of the last 3 years, so I doubt I'm alone with my opinion that you think I am so wrong about here. And, unlike G, you just admitted that you will hold grudges and judge one thing unfairly and not honestly based on something not related to that. That's not good, man.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
Agreed...Adams and Bishop were hot and had hands in their faces for most of their shots but yeah Dji's man for the entire game only scored once and that was the 3 ball by Adams when Dji dropped to deep. I would disagree a little if they are "on" they can be slowed at least. It was pick your poison...if Dji switched and took Bishop then Adams got off. They are two really quick guards who had great handle and poise. Your last sentence nails it they were just better than us last night.
Wow, Adams and Bishop combined for 68 points, Dji played 29 minutes, but his man for the entire game only scored once? LOL. And, when Dji guarded one, the other went off??? Wow. You just don't stop. This is incredible. This is nauseating bias, and I would put you on ignore, but it's just so laughable as well as nauseating I need to keep reading.
just call it like i see it. if that was the worst mistake of the bunch last night I'd say so. his end of game awareness has not been elite this year. we r not a good team, we win maybe 1, & he gave us opportunities to win in those games too, just like other players cost us opportunities. I try to be fair to players, Mooney & Hardt r highly paid pros that's a different standard btw.
I don't mean to single u out tho it feels like that bc of Goose stuff. Just observation on the dynamics of board. I go out at ppl but I go at ppl who can stand up for themselves not ppl who can't. Not saying that is vt4700 bc he can for sure & nothing will change me debating the 8-23 vcu history w him for instance. But on some level he has nobody to ever back him up. Ppl need that imo. When u r constantly getting picked on that's when it almost reverses for me. dji dad is backed up by everyone else. the fact is vt4700 gets crap for 2 reasons - 1. mooney backer. 2. bc it's Dji's dad. I don't have to agree but I can see that & admit it. If Goose dad or mom or Dread dad or mom or Grace dad or mom were on here many of u guys would act different about their sons.
Wait...I was told by another poster Dji wasn't a PG🤯 Well anyway, I agree SMan. Lineups make a difference and as far as next year I think the guys you mention will absolutely have to step up offensively and I think they can. Running Dji and Jaynel together has its benefits and I think we will see that next year def more than this year. When the guys see that there isn't a TB or Matt out there taking the big shots the 💡goes off and they are effective offensively.
Dude, that wasn't even about you. re: Mooney admitted when he makes mistakes. The you was not you 4700, the you was Mooney and referencing him not taking ownership when things are going great.
And you obviously are pretty alone on your feelings on Mooney around here. I didn't see a huge petition last year to save Chris Mooney's job but there was one with hundreds of signatures wanting him fired. Didn't see a billboard asking us to extend Mooney either. When I walk around the RC, talk with other fans, talk with fans in general who know our program, I literally haven't found one yet, that is like yeah Mooney is the right guy for the job. Literally not one. But yet, there is this great silent majority of UR fans that love Mooney according to 3 people on this message board. Lol, ok.
Yes, this could be the case, depends upon how they interact. If Goose's mom/dad came on and was all bombastic, lashing out, maybe not. Remember when Terry Allen's mom came on here, that didn't go well.
Dji's dad makes insightful posts, he has established credibility on here because of that. Which was my point, posters are judged by the merit of their overall work. If someone wants to come on and pick fights with everyone all of the time and make statements that fly in the face of what others see/believe, they probably are not going to have a lot of support on here.
You can single me out, that is cool, and we can go back and forth, because we obviously disagree on Goose. I've said in some games he has really locked up his defender and praised him, but these end of games mistakes are all too common to ignore now, especially for a 5th year senior.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
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97 I'm with you, his trainer is with you, the staff is with you
he absolutely has to be and as I've said countless times that's his big thing to work on. I thought he was assertive at the end even though I was told "GW wasn't playing D" at that time in OT with us down 6, but I digress😂 I think if he takes that more assertive role he give this team a different look. Contrary to one persons belief it doesn't have to be from 3 either. He has the ability to get anywhere on the court and be effective. Basketball is more than just shooting 3s I also think he's gotten a little better each game as he is adjusting to the new role and additional minutes.
@GKiller Of course the game doesn’t come down to one player and one mistake. The same can be said for a win, but everyone celebrates whoever made the “winning shot”. The fact of the matter is that Goose has made repeated mistakes at the end of games and so it is not one instance, but a tendency. The same thing is true about Burton, he has more games where he fades at the end. Burton is the “star player”, but I am not confident that he is going to make the game winner because in general he hasn’t. In addition, last night Burton was hurt and not effective 4-16 fg, 1-7 3pt. He did well from the line, but the misses were at crunch time. There aren’t easy to find stats in the defensive end, but I saw a number of 3s where he couldn’t get out to his man. The team seemed to be rallying without him. I know Burton wanted to be out there, but was that truly the best for the team?
The Quinn missed layup was a killer in OT. How he missed that badly is beyond me, but I guess it is the lack of past success, a confidence issue. On that shot he overshot where he usually undershoots so perhaps an over adjustment.
I thought Dji had his best defensive game with a number of tipped balls and good pressure. On offense, hopefully the end of game drives give him confidence to try more of that before crunch time. His 3 pt shot was atrocious, so understand why he didn’t attempt any others. Funny how VT4700 can praise Goose for the same sort of game (defense first). Of course what 4700 really hates is SpiderDad being on the board.
Commented on Grace already via other thread - outstanding. Bigelow played very well too, although his 3 attempts scare me. We know he isn’t scared to take them, but felt we were lucky that his average didn’t make a showing. Wish he could have found some more defensive boards.
Overall I enjoyed the game, but not the outcome. Who would have thought this year’s Spiders could score so many points? I think it is possible that the team is starting to get an identity and hopefully that leads to a winning streak.
Go Spiders!
The Quinn missed layup was a killer in OT. How he missed that badly is beyond me, but I guess it is the lack of past success, a confidence issue. On that shot he overshot where he usually undershoots so perhaps an over adjustment.
I thought Dji had his best defensive game with a number of tipped balls and good pressure. On offense, hopefully the end of game drives give him confidence to try more of that before crunch time. His 3 pt shot was atrocious, so understand why he didn’t attempt any others. Funny how VT4700 can praise Goose for the same sort of game (defense first). Of course what 4700 really hates is SpiderDad being on the board.
Commented on Grace already via other thread - outstanding. Bigelow played very well too, although his 3 attempts scare me. We know he isn’t scared to take them, but felt we were lucky that his average didn’t make a showing. Wish he could have found some more defensive boards.
Overall I enjoyed the game, but not the outcome. Who would have thought this year’s Spiders could score so many points? I think it is possible that the team is starting to get an identity and hopefully that leads to a winning streak.
Go Spiders!
Basketball isn't all about shooting 3s, but have you ever thought that maybe Dji could be effective at other parts offensively if he could shoot the 3? Wouldn't that open things up for him and others? You act like it's normal for a college guard to not shoot 3s. It's not.97 I'm with you, his trainer is with you, the staff is with you
"His 3 pt shot was atrocious,"
Yes... yes it was 😂 As soon as it left his hand I was like..... I'm praying Coach doesn't call him in today and take his scholly.
If Grace's dad is on the board, I am not saying anything bad. They showed him on one broadcast, he looks like a serious dude. MFG is the best
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