GW in Foggy Bottom Game Thread

[97spiderfan]

yeah right u have been crushing him since offseason, u have been trying to bench him since then too. Lot of ppl predicted his mins would go way down. A select few of us said no way. he's averaging 30 and just played 46. He'll be back in there at end of game situations like that too. Hopefully it works out better.

What I said preseason: Goose is not a starter player on a team that wishes to compete for an A-10 title and NCAA bid. And if we have no better options than him at starter, than we probably won't be in that conversation. Goose was a good fit for last year's offensive laden team, not a good fit for this current year's team which needs helps on offense.

So, this select few may have been correct in his minutes, but I think my overall prediction was pretty spot on. We can argue if we have better options for that many minutes at 2 guard, I would argue we do, but also will concede no one has stepped up enough to reduce his minutes.

And hopefully it will work out better, just like Mooney hoops we shoot better or the other team shoots worse against our excellent defense (as was his contention after the GW game), but hope is not really an effective strategy to win basketball games.

 

[Mo 2.0]

Goose has represented us well and done some good things over the course of his career. I think he's a good role player that has been asked to do more than he's capable of -- because we don't have sufficient A10-level talent in the backcourt.

If Goose had just been called on to be a defensive stopper and periodic scorer playing 15-20 minutes a game, he have ended up as an all-time favorite. Instead, he's asked to do way more than that.

As fans, i think we have a way of over-valuing our talent. Based on the games I have seen us play this year, we are performing at roughly the level of our talent. I think we have bottom-half of the A-10 talent and we are getting bottom-half of the A-10 results. Unfortunately, the problem appears that it will get worse next year with Burton gone.

 

[MrTbone]

Goose has represented us well and done some good things over the course of his career. I think he's a good role player that has been asked to do more than he's capable of -- because we don't have sufficient A10-level talent in the backcourt.

If Goose had just been called on to be a defensive stopper and periodic scorer playing 15-20 minutes a game, he have ended up as an all-time favorite. Instead, he's asked to do way more than that.

As fans, i think we have a way of over-valuing our talent. Based on the games I have seen us play this year, we are performing at roughly the level of our talent. I think we have bottom-half of the A-10 talent and we are getting bottom-half of the A-10 results. Unfortunately, the problem appears that it will get worse next year with Burton gone.

I understand your perspective and it’s hard to argue the unprovable here. That said, I kind of disagree. I think we have decent talent, I just don’t think we put them together the right way.

A couple of our more talented guys seem to be Bigelow and Roche, but they aren’t as heavily used as they could be. Roche hasn’t suddenly forgotten how to shoot for example. Similarly, I think we keep pairing grace and Quinn for long stretches when I don’t think they complement each other real well.

It’s clear we don’t have top end talent, the fact that we are getting very poor guard production is a clear issue.

 

[Eight Legger]

The Mooney system makes it very difficult to get a fair read on a lot of players. I think it's obvious that someone like Schmidt would have this team in a much better spot than 11-13 right now.

 

[Mo 2.0]

Bigelow has a great mix of athleticism and skill for a guy at UR but i don't see him as 'special' when i look around the league. i see 4-5 guys on the floor of this Dayton/SLU game right now of Bigelow's caliber.

Roche - I understand why people want to see him on the floor more but I only see him contributing one thing for us - jump shooting. He can't create his own shot, he's not a premium ballhandler and he's not a particularly great defender at this point.

There is one player on our team that the opponent needs to gameplan around - Burton.

I think we're going to need Nelson and Bailey to make major transformation of their game in the offseason to resemble a competitive outfit next year. Nelson really needs to improve his shooting and Bailey needs to get way more assertive. I'm not counting on the Frosh from Tidewater to make any major waves last year. Hopefully i'm wrong.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

good Spider teams in the past had multiple weapons which started with the guards. Against GW
it was scoring by committee, but it took 5 guards to generate more than 20 puts. When is last time we
have had the two starting guards score more than 20? If Mooney is playing 9, then we need each player to average 8+.
in other words we need stronger group contribution vs a select few. Matt Grace and Bigelow are creating opportunities for others eliminating double teams in some cases. CM has to find right combos quicker for us.

 

[GKiller]

What I said preseason: Goose is not a starter player on a team that wishes to compete for an A-10 title and NCAA bid. And if we have no better options than him at starter, than we probably won't be in that conversation. Goose was a good fit for last year's offensive laden team, not a good fit for this current year's team which needs helps on offense.

So, this select few may have been correct in his minutes, but I think my overall prediction was pretty spot on. We can argue if we have better options for that many minutes at 2 guard, I would argue we do, but also will concede no one has stepped up enough to reduce his minutes.

Yes & what I always said in reply was try to write & articulate that better. Because Goose was already a starter on essentially 2 NCAA teams so it just sounds really funny otherwise.

u were pretty spot on about us not being in mix for A10 title and NCAA bid this year?? Wow that was a ballsy prediction congrats idk how u nailed it but you did. of course u could have said for ANY other player & position besides TB and been just as accurate. we don't have the horses. if we did you'd go w the chalk. Nor do we have the coach, that part we'd agree.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

when discussing this year's team, I think there are a lot of guys good at one thing but also currently deficient in other aspects of the game. I think the general consensus is that good coaches figure out ways via lineups and rotations to maximize the talents and minimize the deficiencies, but that the UR results and games have shown that Moon has also been the same way - good and deficient both, emphasis on the latter. The record bears this out. The historical record also bears out that without a very longtime-together group of players, the team won't make the NCAA under this coach and system.

If you want to rehash player by player, sure whatever, go ahead. Goose seems to get a lot of play on it, primarily because his deficiency is scoring, or even looking to score, which is a need. I personally see that as largely a Moon-induced trait and in a different system he'd look to score more. But man by man on the roster, show me a complete player without a flaw in their game (and no, it's not Burton, sorry.). Bigelow gets more love because he is capable of having games where he is that player who seems complete, almost more than anyone else on the roster, but it's like once every 5 games.

I believe - and think many others do as well - that better coaches can coach up players and fit sharpshooters, athletes, 7 footers and small guards into lineups that consistently work. I also think UR has a coach so insistent in his rigid systems that guys are not able to play to their potential this year. It's the argument against guys needing 3,4 or 5 years to max out their potential.

This is Year 1 of the new cycle. History shows year 4 or 5 of the cycle is when we MIGHT expect results. How the portal changes this, is yet to be seen.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Also, I'll reiterate my season long take: get Roche more shots (or time so sman doesn't freak out. To me they're hand in glove.) The downturn in his minutes makes zero sense. a few games of colder than usual shooting given his shooting track record shouldn't be the case. UR game up 105 points to GWs starters with and mostly without Roche on the court (2 to the reserves.) Play a guy who can score, get creative in his usage (lol, now I know it's time to stop, as if this might happen.)

 

[spider23]

Brooklyn, well said. No, we don't have complete players in the Kevin Anderson, Curtis Blair, Justin Harper, Gilly mode. But we do have guys with one or two very good talents. Again, the coach does not have the ability to adapt and coax the best out of them. Agree Bigelow looks like that guy, and seemed to be showing that earlier in the season. Burton and Bigs looks like a very talented duo that Belein could have figured out how to maximize.

 

[nathanw19]

This is Year 1 of the new cycle. History shows year 4 or 5 of the cycle is when we MIGHT expect results. How the portal changes this, is yet to be seen.

Can’t agree with this more. Mooney’s teams have gone in 4-5 year cycles. We’re in year 1…

I hope Mooney can break the trend and we’re back in the NCAA mix sooner (he was with the last cycle and Covid threw a bit of a wrench in things).

 

[nathanw19]

Brooklyn, well said. No, we don't have complete players in the Kevin Anderson, Curtis Blair, Justin Harper, Gilly mode. But we do have guys with one or two very good talents. Again, the coach does not have the ability to adapt and coax the best out of them. Agree Bigelow looks like that guy, and seemed to be showing that earlier in the season. Burton and Bigs looks like a very talented duo that Belein could have figured out how to maximize.

To be fair, Harper didn’t really turn the corner until his junior year. Hoping that other guys on the roster make big jumps as Harp did.

 

[SpiderDad75]

Bigelow has a great mix of athleticism and skill for a guy at UR but i don't see him as 'special' when i look around the league. i see 4-5 guys on the floor of this Dayton/SLU game right now of Bigelow's caliber.

Roche - I understand why people want to see him on the floor more but I only see him contributing one thing for us - jump shooting. He can't create his own shot, he's not a premium ballhandler and he's not a particularly great defender at this point.

There is one player on our team that the opponent needs to gameplan around - Burton.

I think we're going to need Nelson and Bailey to make major transformation of their game in the offseason to resemble a competitive outfit next year. Nelson really needs to improve his shooting and Bailey needs to get way more assertive. I'm not counting on the Frosh from Tidewater to make any major waves last year. Hopefully i'm wrong.

I think we're going to need Nelson and Bailey to make major transformation of their game in the offseason to resemble a competitive outfit next year. Nelson really needs to improve his shooting and Bailey needs to get way more assertive.

I absolutely agree with you and most teams go as their guards go. Jaynel and Dji CAN do it I believe but it’s on them for sure.

 

[whampas]

Can’t agree with this more. Mooney’s teams have gone in 4-5 year cycles. We’re in year 1…

I hope Mooney can break the trend and we’re back in the NCAA mix sooner (he was with the last cycle and Covid threw a bit of a wrench in things).

Mooney's 4/5 year cycles is what unfortunately keeps him here. Just as you think the administration might pull the trigger, he pulls the rabbit out of the hat and bang, another extension. It's basketball Fandom purgatory. 55/45. It's not going to change. 18 years of it. Just shoot me and put me out of my misery.

 

[ur2K]

Isn’t it closer to a 10 year cycle? Considering the gap between NCAA appearances

 

[bongturk]

I understand your perspective and it’s hard to argue the unprovable here. That said, I kind of disagree. I think we have decent talent, I just don’t think we put them together the right way.

A couple of our more talented guys seem to be Bigelow and Roche, but they aren’t as heavily used as they could be. Roche hasn’t suddenly forgotten how to shoot for example. Similarly, I think we keep pairing grace and Quinn for long stretches when I don’t think they complement each other real well.

It’s clear we don’t have top end talent, the fact that we are getting very poor guard production is a clear issue.

I think Quinn and Grace could be much more effective together if they both were down on the low blocks at the same time. Unfortunately, even if they were there doesn't seem to be anyone who could get them the ball low enough so they didn't have to spend five minutes backing themselves close enough to the basket to shoot. Grace can get hot from outside but not on a particularly consistent basis. Down low they could also be in position to get more offensive boards. Unfortunately we don't believe in going after offensive boards.

 

[SpiderGuy]

There might be a perception of 4 to 5 year cycles, but we only have 3 NCAA appearances in 18 years. That metric would be 1 in 6 avg. That coupled with the overriding 55 pct in 18 years is not acceptable.

 

[Gallipoli]

poor little ol Richmond, we should just be happy to play the games

You all need to be realistic. Richmond is a developmental school. Our teams are best when coaches see raw talent and develop it. The problem is that takes years.

 

[Gallipoli]

You all need to be realistic. Richmond is a developmental school. Our teams are best when coaches see raw talent and develop it. The problem is that takes years.

Never mind, I will take Giselle's talent. She has had plenty of time to develop her...uhm...intellect. I would have to lower my standards.

 

[MrTbone]

You all need to be realistic. Richmond is a developmental school. Our teams are best when coaches see raw talent and develop it. The problem is that takes years.

I don’t know that this bears out in reality. Demonte, nick and grant were all pretty much ready to play for example. They all needed some frosh year development but they weren’t multi year projects.

Definitely have had a lot more of those over the years but I think that’s poor recruiting. There was a long stretch where CM settled for a bunch of project guys and many took forever or never worked out.

 

[GKiller]

He CANNOT throw the ball AND catch the ball

-- Gisele

This was sent to me. LMAO. Nailed it. GISELE!

 

[spider23]

Cloning is the answer. Put 2 Djis and three Bigelow's out there and we have a tough unit on D.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Seeing some interesting stuff going on in this thread. Made me want to do some review/research. Fair warning if you care to read it's short story length. Possibly grab a drink of choice!

Bishop is killing Nelson

First above post which was unfortunately 100% accurate so few minutes later Dad75 replies to below .....

Dji prob needs to be back in bc Bishop looked over and told Will “he can’t guard me”.

Then some time after game's end GKiller correctly replies to Dad75's above post.

They definitely attacked Nelson when he was in there on D

I could go on with more posts from members about players not performing like would care for but not necessary.

And @SpiderDad75 replies to G's above post .....

They did…I think Djis length and size bothered Adams. I’ll have to rewatch but I think Adams only got 1 three on Dji. I think it was pick your poison defensively. One play he switched to Bishop inOT and it got swung to Adams and he was just unreal.

Now we get to the good lol stuff. Might have been late night/early morning 3:10 AM, but a response from him was inevitable. Here's VT4700's response to above Dad75's one.

Adams scored 35, was 9-12 from 3 and 12-18 overall....and you think Dji's length and size bothered him? LOL. Amazing comment. Yes, maybe try rewatching with a little less bias. Absolutely incredible anyone would think that. Nelson only played 10 minutes tonight, Dji 29. Adams only made 1 three while Nelson was in there, but sure, blame Nelson for the 35 points Adams scored and the 107 points we gave up.

So @VT4700 looks like Dad75 used think and not know. IMO what's absolutely incredible that someone would post the above. I ask you to possibly rewatch the game. And Dad WTH is wrong with you blaming Nelson for Adams 35 points. Wait a minute, you didn't. My bad.

And why not 4700 also a response to this particular post involving both Dji and JayNel? Maybe fixated on one poster/player?
"I thought Bailey played pretty well. He is def my starter. Nelson was absolutely abused when he was trying to play defense."
IMO completely correct take though I don't want to ruffle some posters feathers about critiquing/so called hating on players so no mention of poster.

So this catches 4700's eye at 3:26 AM and below his response lol me too. Same Dad75 post that got G's reply.

Dji prob needs to be back in bc Bishop looked over and told Will “he can’t guard me”.

LOL. Yep, because they might have scored 150 if Dji didn't play 29 minutes tonight, right? This is a disgusting comment. Calling out another player just to give your son some extra praise on here? Why? Why go there? Looking at some of the posts on here, I guess whatever you say people will rally around. You would think Dji held Adams and Bishop to 10 points on 3-15 shooting looking at some of these posts tonight. Yep, good thing we put our defensive stopper back in and held Adams to 35 and Bishop to 33.

Yes 4700, Why go there?

And finally at 4:13 AM poor 8legs gets criticism from 4700 for praising players. I thought 4700 only didn't like posters hating on players? That's right, hating on our coach. 4700, 8legs even said he was sorry.

on the bright side Dji has been making some tough buckets here, sorry@VT4700

You mean sorry that our starting PG had 0 points, 1 assist, and another airball from 3 the 1st 39 ninutes of the game? The bright side? The 2 buckets Dji made came in the 50th minute of the game when we down 7 and then 5 and they were giving us the layups there. Are we as fans supposed to be all excited about that? Do you think we got good PG play tonight?

@SpiderDad75 I see you replied to his last few posts that early morning but I suggest maybe just DO NOT reply to anything critical out of his mouth towards Dji. Most people here know his narrative. Protect Mooney at all costs which I disagree with though okay for his take/opinion to be heard.

I enjoy your posting here but if my son was on the team I might inclined not to do so. And seeing you have initiated a few posts hitting back but if in your shoes I might do the same. No need to go down to that level.

I believe have understanding your take on Dji's play. Like what I have seen last few games but yes needs to be more assertive on offensive meaning can't be averaging Goose-like PPG. Won't ever state it in a mean way but would honesty post my feelings here about any/every player including Dji. He got a chance because Nelson regressed offensively.

Same with Randolph as a 2 if not enough offensive production at that position need to see what we have with extra minutes going forward. Coaches like to have every player be good defensively but offense for me takes priority.

 

[GKiller]

Cloning is the answer. Put 2 Djis and three Bigelow's out there and we have a tough unit on D.

5 Djis. Per Gisele.

 

[GKiller]

@SouthJerseySpiderFan that was a hard follow, but yes to me GW guards did effectively attack in a different way when Nelson was in there.

Dji's D was pretty solid in a game where we gave up 107, but when u do that really nobody imo should be talking D in reality.

I didn't get to watch today's game, but Dji seemed to be pretty good again based on brief reports here and just following the box. I agree with him playing over Nelson right now.

What is a little mind blowing is the Can't Guard All of Them vibe...He CANNOT throw it AND catch it....I know off limits can't talk about it...

Gisele, the new Kevin Bacon!

 

[wr70beh]

Why would (ahem, Mooney) mean admitting I was wrong?) Does that mean others should have admitted anything is 2020 or 2022? Yes, I wanted Mooney to stay after the 20 loss seasons. We went 24-7 the following year and I am supposed to admit I was wrong???

Drink!

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

@SouthJerseySpiderFan that was a hard follow, but yes to me GW guards did effectively attack in a different way when Nelson was in there.

Dji's D was pretty solid in a game where we gave up 107, but when u do that really nobody imo should be talking D in reality.

LOL figured it might but jest of it was 4700 going on a late night/early morning rant directed at Dad75 when neither post was directed at him. And he stated "Why go there?" Really. He called Dad's post "disgusting." Some here keep joking he's related to Mooney, maybe he's also a distant relative of Nelson's.

Honestly of late IMO many of 4700's posts are very knowledgable, accurately fact driven. I know understandably Dad gets treated with kid gloves by most here. When Dad thought Dji needed more minutes I saw the few each game given and nothing showed he deserved more. Just kept my thoughts to myself. Dad fully understands if not more assertive on offense (scoring/dishing assists) probably won't keep starting. Nelson's lack of offense got Dji the opportunity.

No need to discuss further but I see it as 82 points in a 40 minute game, Whatever agree still no need for good D mentioned. Though my recollection of watching entire game majority of Bishop/Adams 68 points weren't scored when guarded by Dji. Saw a 3PT and 2FT for sure but less than 10 points. If so I personally wouldn't have issue with Dad's protective stating of Dji's good D.

No doubt posts have risen the hairs on Dad75 back. Suggested he not post back at it. Again, that nasty rant was out of line IMO. Fair or not the world revolves around some people being treated differently for whatever reasons. We all have to live with it.

 

[GKiller]

I get that Jersey but Dad quote tweeted this guy Frontline. That has nothing to do with VT4700. It was during the game. “He can’t guard all of them”…that is straight out of the Gisele playbook.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

@GKiller Old and slow sometimes ….. so Dad tweeted “He can’t guard all of them”??? That is not good.

Though still wondering why 4700 replied to his posts???

 

[GKiller]

@GKiller Old and slow sometimes ….. so Dad tweeted “He can’t guard all of them”??? That is not good.

Yes, see the tweet is linked just a few posts up in the thread. #341. It was b4 all the 4700/dad back & forth.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Yes, see the tweet is linked just a few posts up in the thread. #341. It was b4 all the 4700/dad back & forth.

Thanks G. Not a good look of not being a team playing Dad no pun intended throwing everyone under the bus. Though from what I recall, he was the best defender out there when on those two guys. Just doesn’t need to proclaim it in that way.

Of course 4700 was going to jump on with replies being those two fueding. Would have to replay game but think 4700 assessment wrong and that less than 10 of the 68 scored by Adams/Bishop responsibility was Dji’s.