Grant/Bryce Golden Additional State
- Thread starter edgolden3
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You guys say this every year, you don't need 13, and then low and behold an injury happens, someone gets suspended or kicked off the team, or multiple things happen and you have a hole we can't adequetely fill. Plus, you need all of your players because some of them are younger and are developing, so it has a trickle down effect in years to come (i.e. we have no Junior class right now, a serious hole at the 4-5 for next year).
Just this year, we lost Josh Jones right before the season started and didn't have an immediate replacement for his role really all year. So, what happens, we get stuck running Trey Davis out there for 30 plus minutes per game. Also lost ANO last year and couldn't replace him so we gave a scholarship to walk-on who played 3 minutes all year. Sure would have been nice to have a recruited player on the roster to help us with either of those losses.
But I know the same 3 posters can justify pretty much anything that Mooney does and why we can't be better than what we are.
Just this year, we lost Josh Jones right before the season started and didn't have an immediate replacement for his role really all year. So, what happens, we get stuck running Trey Davis out there for 30 plus minutes per game. Also lost ANO last year and couldn't replace him so we gave a scholarship to walk-on who played 3 minutes all year. Sure would have been nice to have a recruited player on the roster to help us with either of those losses.
But I know the same 3 posters can justify pretty much anything that Mooney does and why we can't be better than what we are.
all that happened and we STILL didn't play some players. you never need 13. no team does. sure, great to have them all and to develop them. but you don't feel players develop in practice much, right? they need game time? well there's no way to get 13 players game time.
I'm not saying run with 10, but I'm all for keeping one spot open for the right transfer every year. so you can add a Wood, a Cline, a Greg Stevenson, a Kinte Smith ...
I'm not saying run with 10, but I'm all for keeping one spot open for the right transfer every year. so you can add a Wood, a Cline, a Greg Stevenson, a Kinte Smith ...
Have to agree with 97 here. You bring in the best possible 13 you can get, and some will not pan out due to a multitude of reasons (can't make adjustment to this level, academics, drugs, lose motivation, transfer closer to girlfriend, etc, etc, etc.,etc.) . How often have we had legit guys sitting on the pine? If you do, now you have some competition in practice. You don't leave schollies sitting there. Even the big body that went to Tennessee over Yale and us. So he has an overbearing family or something like that, bring him in and if he doesn't work out recruit someone else. Better than no one or a DII talent. Pretty obvious here. I am not saying our coaches are not trying to fill in the slots every year, and I think they are. Just has not happened for some reason.
Didn't see 97's last post when I posted mine, but agree. Was thinking of Josh Jones. Good example. Need to have two 6'3" shooting guards ready, not one. Bring in the best guys and if you are not happy with your role, beat the guy out in front of you.
Heck, your Duke example. K stole Sean Obi from Rice (all rookie team) and sat him on the bench as insurance - I think he played 6 games maybe. Derryck Thornton will transfer out this year I bet, as he found a better 5 star to run the point. It happens. You bring in the best players and it will work itself out as to who will be an A10 level player that can help us win games. These kids know how many roster spots there are and that every coach is bringing in good players. You think Marquis Godwin has a bit of fear that we have Sherod and Schneider at the same size and skill. I don't.
Well, that is because we recruited some guys who really can't play at this level, which also falls into the sh*t we need not do anymore category. For the past 2 years at least, we basically ran 8 deep of players who could really play. We got lucky as hell this year that we had no one single injury of any consequence all year or we would have been really in trouble. That is really rare occurrence.
And considering we have had 2 transfers in 11 years so far, we are keeping a slot open every year for a once in every 6 year chance we get a transfer.
23 gave a much more exhaustive list of stuff that can happen during a season and that list is a good reason why you don't leave open scholarships on the table except under extreme circumstances. There is a reason that the NCAA punishes teams by taking away scholarships because it really hurts programs in their ability to develop talent. Under your thinking, we are basically self-imposing punishment on ourselves.
we haven't kept slots open every year.
if you can find 13 guys you really love, great. if we can get Wesson and Ford ... absolutely. or either of them and a big man? awesome.
but if not, it's not the worst thing to have an opening for one of these very good available transfers. they can be a huge boost. and if we hold a spot for one and it doesn't happen ... not the end of the world going with 12.
if you can find 13 guys you really love, great. if we can get Wesson and Ford ... absolutely. or either of them and a big man? awesome.
but if not, it's not the worst thing to have an opening for one of these very good available transfers. they can be a huge boost. and if we hold a spot for one and it doesn't happen ... not the end of the world going with 12.
We did get lucky, BUT I would argue that Shawndre's ankle injury vs. Texas Tech put a severe damper on our year. Lost our opener vs. St. Joe's and have to think that contributed and then SDJ had to have been hobbled when scored zero at a blowout loss to URI. Struggled going 8-12 after that injury. Josh Jones playing a few minutes maybe keeps him healthy? Maybe not, can never tell, but he definitely did not get any opportunity to rest it with lack of guards that could score.
I think having 13 A10 quality players is something we should strive for, but if it is a "bare minimum qualification of the job" as you put it, no coach in the A10 is qualified.
TJ was injured during that period also. He had several hand injuries throughout the year that effected his 3 point shooting for weeks. SDJ injury certainly had the most effect on the team. Certainly hampered him at both ends of the floor.
I think the hardest thing for me to understand is why we always seem to be having this conversation. With UR's 'package' and everything we have to offer and facilities and a good conference, we should be beating prospective recruits off with a stick.
This scholarship tree is an absolute joke. If it were a Christmas tree, it would be the last one in the Home Depot Parking lot at 10pm on Christmas Eve.
3 (2 transfers) - 0 - 5 - 3 (or 4 or 5). Unreal.
http://verbalcommits.com/schools/richmond
And let's be honest, a big reason why we have the "5" as rising sophomores is probably because Mooney is getting a little self-conscious of the attrition that's happened the last couple of years.
This scholarship tree is an absolute joke. If it were a Christmas tree, it would be the last one in the Home Depot Parking lot at 10pm on Christmas Eve.
3 (2 transfers) - 0 - 5 - 3 (or 4 or 5). Unreal.
http://verbalcommits.com/schools/richmond
And let's be honest, a big reason why we have the "5" as rising sophomores is probably because Mooney is getting a little self-conscious of the attrition that's happened the last couple of years.
True story. But we still found a way to finish behind a Rhody team that lost 2 A10 players for most or all of the season by a couple games.
No excuses from me. Those poor guys had to play because we had no bench. Just like two years before when our season effectively ended wth the loss of Sir Cedric.
No reason for us to look like a Charlie Brown Chistmas tree to recruits. The only possible thing I can think of is the difficulty of the academics. We just don't offer the basket weaving justice classes that most of our competitors have. Path of least resistance is still the easiest way to go.
Kovien would be out of here (and still might be), if this were last year or the year prior, when we similarly jettisoned talent that wasn't up to snuff. As you say, the only reason he is still here is because CM realizes this is a poor reflection on his recruiting and is have trouble filling his 2 open slots yet available, without adding more to the list.
Bottom line, we need to land some type of combination of Wesson/Ford/transfer for the 2 remaining ships, if we have any chance of turning the ship around. We need a stellar class of at least 4, preferably 5. If we don't, I'm sure we will still have our few turd polishers who will say why we really don't need all of those good players and will assure us we will get them next year.
Mooney hasn't been able to pull in the recruits, until this year. It is his biggest flaw by far. Perhaps he has spent too much time trying to pull in guys outside of our reach, and when that doesn't pan out we are left with not so great options. Perhaps in the past he entrusted recruiting to one of the assistants who did a subpar job. He seems much more involved in these next 2 classes to me. Perhaps our school is just not as attractive to college athletes as we think it is.
A couple good points:
1- I don't have a ton of evidence to back this up but Mooney does seem more 'hands on' with the recruiting the last year-plus. I recall the recruiting article after Sherod's commitment about Mooeney being out in Vegas for his tourney out there. That's a long way to travel for a kid that plays a mile from campus. I don't remember anything like that before.
2- You're right about the attractiveness of the school. The lense that I look at UR through is certainly different than that of a 16 year old playing AAU ball.
I am sure the word on the street is that you have to go to class at UR and study. Kiss of death.
I'm with 97 on this, coaches should be filling out all scholarships every year. I also tend to gravitate towards the don't redshirt guys thing either, unless there's no real intent of playing them (i.e., burn the shirt when necessary).
I don't think anyone is expecting 13 a10 ready players on the roster every November, but if you presume even distribution of classes, 3 of your roster (freshmen) won't contribute a ton during the OOC portion of the year, so your depth is already hovering at 10 guys. Throw in an injury and a developmental redshirt, and you're down to 8 guys. So we have to have a full complement of scholarships filled out every year.
I don't think anyone is expecting 13 a10 ready players on the roster every November, but if you presume even distribution of classes, 3 of your roster (freshmen) won't contribute a ton during the OOC portion of the year, so your depth is already hovering at 10 guys. Throw in an injury and a developmental redshirt, and you're down to 8 guys. So we have to have a full complement of scholarships filled out every year.
Your lens may have a rose-colored filter on it, to hijack the oft-used term here. Most of us as alumni have a justified affinity for the university but it's predicated on personal experience and some basketball history, neither of which these kids will have. One of our tougher selling points right now is their chance to make the tournament, so we better hope we do that to make ourselves more attractive to prospects. It's not the only thing they select on, but it's got to be a major one.
TBone, agreed, like a lot of millennials today, these recruits want to "succeed", but don't nessasarily want to be the ones to put in the hard work to make that happen. ANO was a perfect example. Someone else's coat tails are just fine with them.
You expressed my 13 A10 ready players much better than I did. It doesn't mean that they all have to be A-10 ready each year. Again, I think filling out the roster with competent players is a job prerequisite.
Also agree that Mooney seems to be more hands on with recruiting this year. And if that is what it takes to get the players we need, so be it, I am glad he made that adjustment.
Agree, not filling out the schlorships should be the exception rather than the rule...
Unless I'm mistaken, we start next season with only three proven A-10 caliber players (Cline, Jones and Fore)...this is ridiculous
we can all hope Buckingham, Sherod and Golden are as good as we hope...but they haven't played D1 basketball yet
It's a sad position to be in 11 years into your tenure...
Go Spiders!
Cline, Jones, Fore, and Woods equals 4. That is what we have in returning A10 caliber players this year.
Didn't include Marshall in A-10 caliber players...obviously he is when his three point shot is on, but don't believe he is consistent enough to count on against the best A-10 competition in important games...
haven't done the math, but if you took away his stats from his several super games I'm guessing his stats would look a lot like Trey and Deion's...
hope he is working hard this off season to shore up his game...we will need better from Marshall next year to get back on track...
Go Spiders!
I agree, about the only thing that MW does well is shoot 3s... sometimes. He is not a starter on a good team, he is an off-the-bench 3pt specialist. He will probably start next year for us, I hope he improves over the summer.
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Thanks. Seems like a no-brainer, so I guess I just forgot. I know he'll get bigger offers but I think there's a pretty decent chance he ends up here.
I thought Marshall had potential to be a player for us about midway through the year, but really he is only a 3 point specialist. I counted him as an A-10 caliber player because I think he is a great 6th man specialist player for a quality A-10 team. For us, he is a starter next year that we need to play like that.
So, 3 A-10 starters, 1 A-10 reserve, and 9 really complete unknowns. Good times.
So, 3 A-10 starters, 1 A-10 reserve, and 9 really complete unknowns. Good times.
MW will have to develop some kind of low post game to have a decent chance of starting at 4, which isn't really a fit for him right now. I think his defense and rebounding are acceptable if not better when he's one of our two interior defenders where he won't be exposed quite as much on D.
It's problematic that every year in recent memory I feel like we have a clear hole at one or more spots. Next year it's at PF. This year it was at SF and realistically at SG as well. The year before the gap was again at SF. Unknown at the spot is understandable but a hole or real gap is bad recruiting/planning.
It's problematic that every year in recent memory I feel like we have a clear hole at one or more spots. Next year it's at PF. This year it was at SF and realistically at SG as well. The year before the gap was again at SF. Unknown at the spot is understandable but a hole or real gap is bad recruiting/planning.
The way I look it at is that we only lost one A-10 starter, albeit a very good one. It will be rough going the first half of the year, but should improve quickly as we see what we have and the defense gets better. There is more mystery around PF than the incoming freshmen. MW will have to improve a lot. I promise you guys are going to be happy with Sherod and Buck. I did not get to see Grant play, but have only heard good things.
All in all, I am looking forward to it.
All in all, I am looking forward to it.
Well, I think past Europe tours have not provided a preview. We generally win by 30 points. Still, it will be good for the team to have a chance to work together and build what will hopefully, be a competitive team.
