Georgetown Game Observations
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JW's team's played tough hard nosed defense. Offense was basically chuck the ball up and go get it.
While I do not subscribe to the reactionary "hard right" (let's call it the "FatherSpider/VT/Hanca" sect) of this board that blames every single thing on Mooney and think he is and has always been a terrible coach, I do subscribe to the more moderate, rational critics (I would put 97 and Moliva in here) that are frustrated with, among other things, Mooney's inflexibility and the fact that we have clearly plateaued under his leadership.
I think this observation from 97, which was noted by Mooney in the post-game, is evidence of the inflexibility. I have no issues at all with developing a game plan to stop the interior scoring, and believe that we generally succeeded in accomplishing that task--Govan and Derrickson were not that effective in the interior, and we competed fine on boards and points in the paint. However, by the end of the game, it was very, very clear that we needed to guard the 3-point line better, and that they were absolutely victimizing us from open 3s. So a different approach, ad libbed during the game, was called for in the last 4 minutes. But we did not adjust, and they got a wide open three from Pickett, and it was game over. It is very clear that in-game adjustments are not Mooney's strong suit. That is one of my frustrations with his tenure.
Dick Tarrant has always been very pleasant to speak with. He is a Marine and did not believe in coddling or babying players. Our society has changed with the end of the military draft a number of years ago. The Marines are very effective and their training works well. We live in a much "softer" society and "tough love" is not received as well particularly by those who can't tolerate opinions different than their own. Tarrant has been our most effective coach in the modern era - 12 seasons - 5 NCAA appearances including Sweet Sixteen in 1988 and 4 NIT appearances. Beilein in 5 seasons had one NCAA appearance and one NIT appearance. Wainwright in 3 seasons had one NCAA appearance and one NIT appearance.
Didn't he leave for DePaul before his contract was up with us, then refused to pay the 'buy out he owed' (apparently DePaul refused to pay it as well) we had to sue him. Now he's head coach at Fresno.
He's associate head coach at Fresno under his former UNCW assistant (and UR assistant for six weeks) Rodney Terry.
but knee, they didn't get the Pickett 3 because of us doubling the post. we're down 2 with 1:30 left when the ball went to the far corner (tv view). Solly contested but got beat to the baseline. Golden came down to stop the drive. Buck is kind of playing opposite bottom of a 2-3 at this point, with Gilyard up top. Jacob correctly sees the likely kick out to the corner for the open 3 and he rotates to it. kick out, however, goes to the spot Jacob left. Khwan is late rotating to it and Pickett hits the shot.
with good ball movement, we got open 3's late too but didn't make them. that's the difference.
with good ball movement, we got open 3's late too but didn't make them. that's the difference.
Not sure the "full story" will ever be known on this. JW and our Athletic Department did not see "eye to eye" is putting it mildly.
http://www.richmondspiders.com/news/2005/4/28/205200903.aspx
This link tells what the school said about his resignation. Rumor was he was "told to leave" and the DePaul hire gave good cover. Whether he owed Richmond money or paid part or paid none with the idea that Richmond was glad to see "the back of him." Perhaps other posters have better knowledge of the facts?
Nice guy unless you are playing for him, playing against him, or you made a bad call against his team. How it probably should be, the coach shouldn't be your buddy if you are a player.
I must have been watching a different game, this was not a 'pick-your-poison' situation, this was an 'everything-is-poison' situation. We obviously were horrible defending the 3, but we also did not do a good job of taking away the interior. We allowed Georgetown to shoot 52% from inside the arc and fouled them constantly, sending them to the line 26 times, because we have serious problems defending. Govan and Dickerson were very efficient inside, as was the rest of Georgetown.
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Agree keefusb- I was intrigued by the way Tarrant was able to "work the refs". He could tell them the call was "insert word of your choice here" and the end result was often we got the benefit of the next call. And agree the players knew who was "in charge."
Right, I knew some players that played under him and they definitely knew who was in charge and some had a few things to say. However, I don't recall many, if any of our top players transferring out. Guys got better and played tough and smart.
I don't know that we ever were in touch with or had conversations with Gregg Marshall. I know whenever he was brought up on this board you get attacked that he is an a-hole, etc, etc. but geez, all that guy does is win. And please, please, please, please stop with the "he can get anyone in that is breathing" BS. So freaking what. So can many many others, but they are not taking Winthrop to multiple NCAA's and building Wichita State into a Top 10 program in the country. I would guess that actually there are many programs getting much more highly ranked talent, and not sniffing the top 10.
I know we are not going to get him now, but I do feel there was a time we possibly could have.
I said that about Marshall in a thread discussing whether he would come to UR now. Among the many reasons why he wouldn't is that he can admit anyone there and couldn't here. (Not to mention he earns $3.5M a year or something and has a top-10 program.)
I wasn't suggesting that that's why he's a good coach, just stating that it's a big advantage over our job... One of many.
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Thanks 2011. They scored 82, so obviously we weren't good period on defense period. What I noticed in their 3's is that we were consistently late in getting out to guard the 3 point line and they killed us with good ball movement to find that guy (reminded me a lot of our team 2 years ago, when you had your guys flying out late trying to guard the 3)
Mooney said in his post game presser that we made an effort to take the inside away from them. I think our strategy was "Georgetown is so much bigger than us, we have to take that away and hope they don't kill us from deep. That to me is not a strategy but more of a prayer that obviously went unanswered.
First of all, we can't afford Marshall, and I hear he lives like the King of Kansas and his family is very happy there.
I know someone who books the summer overseas trips that college hoops teams take. He was sued by two different parties over the meltdown that GM had in Canada a couple of summers ago. Our administration would never go for someone with that degree of lack of self-control. Can't really blame them for that, either.
I know someone who books the summer overseas trips that college hoops teams take. He was sued by two different parties over the meltdown that GM had in Canada a couple of summers ago. Our administration would never go for someone with that degree of lack of self-control. Can't really blame them for that, either.
I still like my narrative (whether it is true or not) that 13 years ago, our top 3 choices were McKillop, Marshall, & Mooney...
Admissions didn't screw the pooch on Vassallio - he failed twice to make even 400 on his Verbal on the SATs.
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That is my whole point with Wainwright. I agree - he was not a fit for UR because he had a vision of the type of kids he wanted to recruit, and admissions clearly did not agree with that vision. But his focus was not offense - it was defense. His whole philosophy - even back to his UNCW days was play hard nosed man-to-man defense. Games will be ugly and low scoring at times, but he was going to grind out wins. Offense - recruit one or two offense weapons and run the offense through them (at UNCW it was Blizzard- who if you all remember was considering UR as well, but picked UNCW and when he got to UR, he inherited Skrocki, but used him similar to Blizzard). End result - 1 NCAA tourney, 1 NIT, and a .500 record. And I also think people would have a more positive outlook if he went to Depaul and was successful.
Everyone on this board love Beilein, but I think that is mainly because he has been successful coaching since he left UR and in a way we feel a part of that success. But I bet if this board could go back in time - you would see many angry posts. Think about it - he left UR after signing a raise and extension, and left for a school where he was clearly the 2nd/3rd choice (remember WVU hired Dakich, but he left after 1 week) and we had just beaten WVU on our home floor the year before. If Beilein goes to WVU and falls flat - we are all trashing him to this day how he should have never left.
Back to the main point though - more than one way to win. And I would like to see UR get a coach who can recruit well and go back to more a traditional style. Man to man defense and basic offense playcalls. I feel like with Mooney we are still running a gimmick offense and defense to try and make up for our lack of talent and recruiting.
Am I the only one who remembers how hard it was for a Jerry wainwright team just to inbound the ball? Seriously, there’s some heavy duty editing going on here...
Beilein had plenty of critics on this board. "we'll never get to the next level with him ... gimmicky defense ... gimmicky offense ... poor rebounding teams ... doesn't recruit at a high enough level, instead finding under the radar guys that fit his system ...
sound familiar?
he won his 1st year with Dooley's guys, then rebuilt. had 2 average years, then 2 NIT seasons, then left. but at least the cupboard was full and JW did well with it early. NIT the 1st year, NCAA the 2nd. then it started falling apart. he was below .500 his final year, something Mooney hasn't done in the last 10 years.
posters here give JW a ton of credit for his recruiting and blame everything on admissions, but while his recruits may have had higher rankings than Beilein's, they mostly didn't do huge things here or anywhere else. some exceptions. but here's the list and you tell me how many legends are on it.
Daon Merrit
Tim Mayes
Oumar Sylla
Gaston Moliva
Courtney Nelson
Andres Sandoval
Monte Sanders
Drew Crank
Jarhon Gddings
AD Vassallo
Jose Garcia
2 weren't admitted, and most of the others transferred. Mooney had one year with Steenberge and Bucknor as seniors, but it was a total rebuild from scratch.
sound familiar?
he won his 1st year with Dooley's guys, then rebuilt. had 2 average years, then 2 NIT seasons, then left. but at least the cupboard was full and JW did well with it early. NIT the 1st year, NCAA the 2nd. then it started falling apart. he was below .500 his final year, something Mooney hasn't done in the last 10 years.
posters here give JW a ton of credit for his recruiting and blame everything on admissions, but while his recruits may have had higher rankings than Beilein's, they mostly didn't do huge things here or anywhere else. some exceptions. but here's the list and you tell me how many legends are on it.
Daon Merrit
Tim Mayes
Oumar Sylla
Gaston Moliva
Courtney Nelson
Andres Sandoval
Monte Sanders
Drew Crank
Jarhon Gddings
AD Vassallo
Jose Garcia
2 weren't admitted, and most of the others transferred. Mooney had one year with Steenberge and Bucknor as seniors, but it was a total rebuild from scratch.
Great list, s-man. You are correct a lot of JW recruits were very highly ranked but didn't pan out much on the court and academically many couldn't cut it here. He was a bad match for UR and I think we all agree him moving to Depaul was a positive for us.
My point was the his 3 years here, he led us to an NCAA and NIT birth and was a game under .500 his last year, so I don't get the bashing he received because this is pretty darn successful 3 years. If we would have done that twice over the past 6 years, Mooney would be a lot more beloved than he is now.
it was the direction of the program that leaves the bad taste. he lost his last season. then the non-admitted guys and the transfers. his interviews were charming when we were winning, frustrating when we're 14-15.
but interviews are aways frustrating when you're losing.
but interviews are aways frustrating when you're losing.
I don't think this is a bad list.
Merrit leaves UR and goes to South Alabama and I beleive is the starting PG for them and they go to NIT and NCAA tourney. Believe he averaged about 10 points a game and decent assist numbers.
Moliva - would have been a great fit for Wainwright- remember Moliva his first year under Wainwright on that NCAA team. Big guy who could run, rebound and defend. Injuries slowed him down a little and then when Mooney came it was a terrible fit.
Crank - similar to above. I think he would have been a good fit not only under Wainwright, but remember also that Wainwrights assistant was Winiecki. I think Crank could have been a decent player that developed over time, but was never a fit for Mooney.
Giddings - nothing great, but he ended up having a good senior year, under Mooney. Would have been interesting to see him under Wainwirght because he was not the big bruising big guy you usually see from JW, but I would not call him a bust by any means.
AD Vassallo - VT Legend.
And everyone says the cupboard was bare. But imagine if Vassalo gets admitted. You have a team of Steenberge and Bucknor - two all league A10 players, paired with a top frosh in Vasallo as well as Vassallo and maybe Sandoval, not great by any means stays and helps with ballhandling (he did transfer to A10 rival Dayton). I think that team on paper is looking pretty good. Not a definite NCAA team, but one that could compete for a spot or NIT spot.. Very good 1-2-3 punch in Steenberge, Bucknor, Vassallo.
Except Dain was kicked out of school for assault, Sandoval transferred for what I believe were academic reasons and vassallo never came here. So there’s that conundrum.
Merritt was decent for us and at South Alabama. he had talent but the only reason JW landed him was JW hired his coach. not sure that's a recruiting coup. not to mention the off the court issues. Crank? wasn't he gone before Mooney even got here? went on to play tennis I thought. he didn't do anything basketball-wise. Nelson and Sandoval became role players. did Garcia ever land? Sanders left for Elon and spend his best two years there averaging 5 ppg. the only real talent JW attracted was Vassallo, and he couldn't get in.
I'm not saying his guys were busts. just none of them were so amazing to live up the the hype that JW was some great recruiter of talent. and we know he wasn't much with a clipboard.
I'm not saying his guys were busts. just none of them were so amazing to live up the the hype that JW was some great recruiter of talent. and we know he wasn't much with a clipboard.
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