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#ExtendMooney

First, you're confident it will start? Second two years at what pay and what buy out?
 
It would of course be interesting to know what the deal structure looks like. There’s a part of me that anticipates he didn’t have a ton of leverage in the negotiation so perhaps there are adequate controls in the contract if UR wants out. Probably wishful thinking.
 
AnnapSpider said:
Where did that figure come from?
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thin air. 😂
adding 2 years seems very reasonable. it doesn't take incoming recruits through their 4 years, but nobody is guaranteed a coach for all 4 anyway. and if we do well, the extensions will continue if he wants them.
 
Dropping this on a Saturday with no press release either. Hmm I guess that goes with the lack of transparency we get on the Mooney deal. Frankly we need to get rid of this archaic private school we don't disclose contract terms. Look we don't need to know what the field hockey coach makes. But when you give a person the largest personal contract in the history of the University of Richmond, an original TEN year deal, and now add a multi million dollar extension I think we're in a much different place. He'll be reported on the 990 forms eventually anyway, let's have some leadership from Hardt and Crutcher. Not the I'm going to hide bs.

I'm sorry u don't to get to hide when u give out a TEN year biggest in history of UR contract, then have that person underperform in those 10 years. We all know everyone knows that at UR with our resources if it takes you 10 years to get back to NCAA you have not met expectations. It's non negotiable really. When we gave him a TEN year deal short of a bad scandal zero NCAAs was the worst case scenario. And now we've extended it 2 more years. And asking for terms is unreasonable? Come on this a billion dollar operation, highest profile position, highest paid position, and we can't get any transparency. Step up Hardt & Crutcher.

The contract is not my decision. I wouldn't have done it right now but my main beef is put out the terms. We like to say we're an elite university. Can you go O-9 NCAAs and get extended on the richest contract in UR history, I guess so. I don't see that as high standards for a elite university but maybe we are just average.

We got unlucky last year with NCAA cancellation. But heck even the most famous bracketologist in the world, a guy who is on UR's own PAYROLL, didn't put us as last one in until two days before. And this year we should be absurdly good. Mooney gets credit for roster, it took some 5th year redshirt stuff but here we are.

So personally u got a guy with 2 years left on a 0-9 streak, gets his butt handed to him by VCU regularly, well u leave that extension out there as motivator. Imagine if we don't meet expectations this year, now we're stuck again. And we don't even know what this year is going to look like. And expectations aren't that elusive 1 every 10 years NCAA, it is the best year in history of UR basketball.
 
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Gkiller, I think it speaks volumes that the last two times we extended Mooney, we do it under the cover of night with some obscure-vague press release. Normally, when a University extends its head coach, schools try to get a nice PR bump out of the announcement. AT UR, it's like we are throwing a hand grenade across enemy lines.

I'm sure we are also trying to not disclose terms partially because of COVID, if some UR employees have to take furloughs and/or paycuts in the future, I'm sure the fact that we extended our head coach who last took us to the NCAA's nearly a decade ago, will go over well.
 
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Also, if I were Hardt, I would have waited until Mooney signed this next 5 man class. Mooney has had long standing issues with recruiting and this 5 man class is critical to our long term success. I would have like to see if he has indeed made substantive changes to his recruiting.

Not sure what the rush was to get thing done in the middle of a pandemic, seems like we were negotiating against ourselves here.
 
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Not making any excuses, but perhaps the recruiting was being affected. How many recruits are going to commit to a coach who would only be under contract for his freshman year?

My earlier point was that this is good news because now it can’t be an excuse or a distraction. Hopefully there are some better terms from the UR perspective, since it seems like the previous contract did not have any suitable out clauses for the university. I also think the salary has to be similar to the previous deal with perhaps more incentives. Otherwise Hardt is asking for trouble when the terms come out, which of course they will.
 
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Maybe his agent was asking for four years and Hardt saw an opportunity to negotiate it to two years while no one is really watching. Again, something was going to get done and this isn’t an overreach. No ones going to publish it as a prime PR piece when the most notable recent achievement is that you were on track to make the tourney before a massive pandemic drove the country off a cliff.
 
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RichmondNative said:
Otherwise Hardt is asking for trouble when the terms come out, which of course they will.
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When have contract details ever come out at UR? Next time will be the first time as far as I'm aware. Heck even John O'Connor gets Mooney compensation from the 990 forms. That's all we got to go by. And for the highest paid highest visibility this continual lack of transparency at UR slaps us right in the face.
 
MrTbone said:
Maybe his agent was asking for four years and Hardt saw an opportunity to negotiate it to two years while no one is really watching. Again, something was going to get done and this isn’t an overreach. No ones going to publish it as a prime PR piece when the most notable recent achievement is that you were on track to make the tourney before a massive pandemic drove the country off a cliff.
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Remember he has two years, 2 more gives him that 4. You mean they wanted 6 total? Ok that's some brass balls. Mooney did say the extension was "simple" & with our history I guess he could have got it. But to me I don't know how it could be simple when you're coming off 9 straight years of no NCAA. Mooney & agent Gazelle Group have every right to look after Mooney interests so I don't fault them but come on. It's not so much about Mooney anyway, my opinion of him as a coach is pretty good, but there are many out there. Then u have Hardt talking about educational values, don't all our coaches adhere to that, it is the minimum qualification. I do think it's an overreach and lot of reasonable people feel the same.

97 is right usually u do an extension and it is a PR celebration bc you've had lot of success or your coach is in high demand. Yes pandemic time is factor but we did the 1 year extension years ago under cover of night during the good times.

Ultimately it is a bottom line business. Patience has been shown. 2 in 15 and 0-9 is not good, I don't think anyone wants to accept that here. is it wrong to want to see some results in TEN years? give me some results and then we can talk. Because mooney has been given a hell of a lot, and call me selfish for waiting almost a decade but I'd like some return first. Last year was unlucky but the prior 8 removed the benefit of the doubt. And NCAA bid this year is the bare minimum but that alone would fall well below expectations.
 
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he had 18 months left on his contract. this takes him to spring of 2024. he's currently recruiting a class that will graduate in 2026. to me if you want him, this extension is the bare minimum you'd offer.. if you don't want him here as some of you clearly don't, then you don't extend at all.
Hardt is satisfied with the current shape of the program ... last year's results and this year's prospects. not extending at all gives the appearance that we don't want to keep him, and whether you believe it or not that does affect recruiting. recruits will be less concerned about his situation with this news. so for the state of the program, I'm glad we got it done.
 
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Suppose you guys knew the amount of his contract- what good would that do you?
First you’d say he was overpaid, even though the articles I’ve read said that his contract is in line with other
A-10 coaches.
Other than the fact that you all are dying of curiosity because that is why we’re all on this site, just drop it.
Suppose he accepted a drop in salary, would you all complain about that too. Suppose he is under paid, are you chipping in?
Which one of you wants to post their annual salary? 97- what is your salary? Gkiller what is your salary?
 
Gallipoli said:
IMO, the 2019-2020 season would have ended with an appearance in the NCAA tournament. It seems to me the school is giving Coach Mooney a chance to finish what he started.
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I have the same opinion of last season. I was maybe the only one who had that opinion BEFORE the season. Nobody on spiderfans has been a bigger believer in this team than me. But u know the saying about opinions. Also lol on giving Mooney a chance to finish. We gave him a 10 year deal and have extended it twice now and have exactly zero ncaa appearances in that time. Lot of chances & long time to finish. They build highways in less time. It's not personal on Mooney, & he would had a chance to finish without an extension.
 
spiderman said:
he had 18 months left on his contract. this takes him to spring of 2024. he's currently recruiting a class that will graduate in 2026. to me if you want him, this extension is the bare minimum you'd offer.. if you don't want him here as some of you clearly don't, then you don't extend at all.
Hardt is satisfied with the current shape of the program ... last year's results and this year's prospects. not extending at all gives the appearance that we don't want to keep him, and whether you believe it or not that does affect recruiting. recruits will be less concerned about his situation with this news. so for the state of the program, I'm glad we got it done.
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how do you know 18 months? we don't divulge any details. And if I want to nitpick like u I'd expect his contract actually goes to June 30 each year to coincide with the school's fiscal year. And that is closer to 2 full years. But who cares it's 2 basketball seasons which is 2 years and that is all that matters and u know this.

Why is 4 years the bare minimum. I don't accept that. We didn't extend him last summer when had 3 left and it didn't hurt recruiting so that theory is shot. I guess we gave the appearance last offseason we didn't want him with no extension. How did that work out? Best year since 2010-11 and what looks on paper like good recruiting. U could say he does better with less time on contract. Also this is not about Mooney needs to go, it is ok to be against extension until u prove it. U can be in that camp. It does not mean anti-Mooney. They r not mutually exclusive.

The whole coach must have at least 4 years mantra seems like another ploy for constant job preservation or compensation reasons by agents and coaches. 1 year ext would have made lot more sense. Did the 10 year deal give us great recruits? That is more than double the 4 so we should have been crushing the recruiting side early in that contract. This correlation between recruiting and contract status is over played imo.
 
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AnnapSpider said:
Suppose you guys knew the amount of his contract- what good would that do you?
First you’d say he was overpaid, even though the articles I’ve read said that his contract is in line with other
A-10 coaches.
Other than the fact that you all are dying of curiosity because that is why we’re all on this site, just drop it.
Suppose he accepted a drop in salary, would you all complain about that too. Suppose he is under paid, are you chipping in?
Which one of you wants to post their annual salary? 97- what is your salary? Gkiller what is your salary?
Click to expand...

Annap u follow sports right. What u wrote sounds like u r new to it. Contract terms r a fairly common practice for high level high profile college sports and I consider mens basketball at UR that. Nature of the beast. Job like this comes with scrutiny. Comes up with other jobs like govt jobs too. Nobody cares about mine or 97 salary. Personally I think I'm underpaid tho lol.

But my beef is not with his salary. Market driven. I like that we pay well at UR, want it to continue and don't begrudge Mooney for making as much as he can possibly make. It's about transparency at UR and standards which r both lacking at UR & AD dept. There is a reason why u have to list top earners at non profits on 990 forms. UR is a billion dollar "non profit" let's be upfront and have some transparency at the top. Like I said nobody is asking for the field hockey coach's contract.

Also Mooney pay is above or in line with the highly successful experienced A10 coaches. There is only 1 other person in the country (Pat Chambers at Penn State I believe) that makes what he makes for not going to the NCAA since 2011. Based on those results he's not under paid. Because almost everyone else would be on an assistant coach salary by now, or at a low major.

Go Spiders. We are going to be a monster team, we are absurdly strong and the sky is the limit this year. No excuses and then u can tell me at the end of the year what a steal we got on the extension.
 
MrTbone said:
It would of course be interesting to know what the deal structure looks like. There’s a part of me that anticipates he didn’t have a ton of leverage in the negotiation so perhaps there are adequate controls in the contract if UR wants out. Probably wishful thinking.
Click to expand...
Sounds like he had no leverage at all despite the consensus on the Board that we were a 'shoe in' for the tourney. If he is as hot a commodity(last year, this year's potential, better recruiting) as some think, shouldn't he have at least gotten a few calls from potential suitors? If that had been the case, don't you think there would have been "leaks" from his agent to aide in the negotiations with Hardt?
One could question if P5 schools still see him as that caliber of a coach? Is the "peter principle" applicable here? One might imply from Hardt's comments this may be his pinnacle.
 
GKiller said:
Annap u follow sports right. What u wrote sounds like u r new to it. Contract terms r a fairly common practice for high level high profile college sports and I consider mens basketball at UR that. Nature of the beast. Job like this comes with scrutiny. Comes up with other jobs like govt jobs too. Nobody cares about mine or 97 salary. Personally I think I'm underpaid tho lol.

But my beef is not with his salary. Market driven. I like that we pay well at UR, want it to continue and don't begrudge Mooney for making as much as he can possibly make. It's about transparency at UR and standards which r both lacking at UR & AD dept. There is a reason why u have to list top earners at non profits on 990 forms. UR is a billion dollar "non profit" let's be upfront and have some transparency at the top. Like I said nobody is asking for the field hockey coach's contract.

Also Mooney pay is above or in line with the highly successful experienced A10 coaches. There is only 1 other person in the country (Pat Chambers at Penn State I believe) that makes what he makes for not going to the NCAA since 2011. Based on those results he's not under paid. Because almost everyone else would be on an assistant coach salary by now, or at a low major.

Go Spiders. We are going to be a monster team, we are absurdly strong and the sky is the limit this year. No excuses and then u can tell me at the end of the year what a steal we got on the extension.
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I wouldn’t argue with a single thing that you have said. My question is - “what would you do with the knowledge
of the amount Mooney makes? “ Is it going to alter your optimism or pessimism how the team performs, or are you
just going to be a fan like the rest of us?
I‘m a Ravens fan, and I think they have a great coaching staff that has developed a great team, but I could care less how much the coaches make if they lose or win a game.
 
His salary and terms of his deal are important because this was the reason given for keeping him the past few years (his buyout was too much). I'm an Eagles fan and you are correct, I could care less about how much Doug Pederson makes? Why, because if he underperforms, the Eagles are going to fire him and hire a new coach? The money and terms of his contract are not impediments to that. But apparently, they are here at UR.

Also a Gkiller states, transparency is always a good thing. Almost every single major D-1 program discloses the terms of how much their head football and basketball coach make. But we make it some secret, that the media has to dig through the 990 for.

Hopefully, Hardt got Mooney on some much more friendly terms, due to COVID and the fact that his leverage off of 9 straight non NCAA years is pretty low.

I will say despite my constant harping on Mooney's under-performance of his contract, last year, was a really good year for our program. The tourney was cancelled but in my mind, we were a tourney team and probably would have made the field.
 
GKiller said:
how do you know 18 months? we don't divulge any details. And if I want to nitpick like u I'd expect his contract actually goes to June 30 each year to coincide with the school's fiscal year. And that is closer to 2 full years. But who cares it's 2 basketball seasons which is 2 years and that is all that matters and u know this.

Why is 4 years the bare minimum. I don't accept that. We didn't extend him last summer when had 3 left and it didn't hurt recruiting so that theory is shot. I guess we gave the appearance last offseason we didn't want him with no extension. How did that work out? Best year since 2010-11 and what looks on paper like good recruiting. U could say he does better with less time on contract. Also this is not about Mooney needs to go, it is ok to be against extension until u prove it. U can be in that camp. It does not mean anti-Mooney. They r not mutually exclusive.

The whole coach must have at least 4 years mantra seems like another ploy for constant job preservation or compensation reasons by agents and coaches. 1 year ext would have made lot more sense. Did the 10 year deal give us great recruits? That is more than double the 4 so we should have been crushing the recruiting side early in that contract. This correlation between recruiting and contract status is over played imo.
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wow. ok.
forget 18 months. call it 2 years. whatever. I'm taking recruiting. he's recruiting the 2021 freshman class which graduates in 6/2025. this extension, which I called the minimum, only goes through 6/2024. so yeah, I think it's the least we could offer to not put an anchor on his legs in recruiting. I'd prefer one more year.

you say the term on his contract didn't hurt in recruiting last summer and that in your opinion the correlation between recruiting and contract status is over played. I know for a fact it hurt us last summer from talking to a father of a terrific recruit we would have loved to land. that's why I say the remaining term on his contract is important. limited data set, but I only knew one kid at that level that was on our list. maybe there are top recruits that don't feel the head coach's perceived stability in their job is a factor but some definitely do. the AAU coach I know who's advice many kids and parents listen to does too, and he had 5 DI kids on his team last summer.
 
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I stand by what I said. What would you do differently knowing his salary? Cheer more, cheer less, complain more,
complain less; what would you do differently?
 
I would think his agent was pushing for 6 total years. This is ideal for recrutiing as when you have RS years - your looking at 5 years. Low end would be 4 - which it seems like UR negotiated. My guess would be no change in the buyout. I would expect this deal to still be fully guaranteed. Maybe that is why they settled on the 2 year extension to 4 years.
What will be very problematic is if there is no season this year or a very short season - how do you account for that at the end, because he will likely need to stay at 4 years or more for recruiting purposes (how do you recruit a kid if you only have 3 years left on your deal - your basically telling him, I might not be here for your Junior or senior year).

As I have said before - if Athletics and basketball is a priority - then the school needs to get out the checkbook and have it ready. This means - you have to keep him at 4-5 years rolling deal. If he fails, then you have to be willing to pay out his deal to get rid of him. Don't act like you have money when you sign him to the deal, but when you need to get out of it - act like you don't have it. UR has the money.

He has earned and deserves this extension in my mind. And if there is a season this year and we meet or exceed expectations - he deserves a raise and another extension.
 
I also don't know many (any?) private schools that do willingly publish their coaches' salaries. Whenever I see those databases of basketball coaching salaries, the private school data always seems to come from the 990s.
 
AnnapSpider said:
I‘m a Ravens fan, and I think they have a great coaching staff that has developed a great team, but I could care less how much the coaches make if they lose or win a game.
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Harbaugh's salary (and his staff's) doesn't have ripple effects on resources available to the Baltimore Swim & Dive, Field Hockey, and Lacrosse programs.

That said, I'm not too caught up in the specific amount. As long as we don't cut programs. It's probably more than it should be based on performance history and less than it should be based on the "market."

Hardt said in April that "some of" his higher compensated coaches - and he himself - voluntarily took pay cuts to help the department through the hardship caused by the response to the virus. Hopefully Mooney was one of those coaches.
 
ChoppinBroccoli said:
Harbaugh's salary (and his staff's) doesn't have ripple effects on resources available to the Baltimore Swim & Dive, Field Hockey, and Lacrosse programs.

That said, I'm not too caught up in the specific amount. As long as we don't cut programs. It's probably more than it should be based on performance history and less than it should be based on the "market."

Hardt said in April that "some of" his higher compensated coaches - and he himself - voluntarily took pay cuts to help the department through the hardship caused by the response to the virus. Hopefully Mooney was one of those coaches.
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I stand by my comments. How would knowing his salary change anything? Would you cheer less, cheer more,
complain less, complain more ? Not knowing is not going to change anything.
 
AnnapSpider said:
I stand by my comments. How would knowing his salary change anything? Would you cheer less, cheer more,
complain less, complain more ? Not knowing is not going to change anything.
Click to expand...

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but knowing that he made 3 mil a year for 10 years to miss the tournament at 30 mil overall while we lose some good coaches in other sports and can’t increase other funding to other sports. I’d be pretty pissed if we were pissing away being good at other sports to pay a guy to make us bad in our “flagship sport”.

you clearly do not agree with that take but let’s step down off the soap box and understand where he’s coming from here
 
plydogg said:
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but knowing that he made 3 mil a year for 10 years to miss the tournament at 30 mil overall while we lose some good coaches in other sports and can’t increase other funding to other sports. I’d be pretty pissed if we were pissing away being good at other sports to pay a guy to make us bad in our “flagship sport”.

you clearly do not agree with that take but let’s step down off the soap box and understand where he’s coming from here
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plydogg said:
I don’t have a dog in this fight, but knowing that he made 3 mil a year for 10 years to miss the tournament at 30 mil overall while we lose some good coaches in other sports and can’t increase other funding to other sports. I’d be pretty pissed if we were pissing away being good at other sports to pay a guy to make us bad in our “flagship sport”.

you clearly do not agree with that take but let’s step down off the soap box and understand where he’s coming from here
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As far as I know, he was paid a million plus-no where near 3 million. His compensation is in line with other A-10 coaches.
 
AnnapSpider said:
I stand by my comments. How would knowing his salary change anything? Would you cheer less, cheer more,
complain less, complain more ? Not knowing is not going to change anything.
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It matters how much a coach makes because the expectations should increase as the salary does. If we are willing to spend $2 million a year on a coach (just an example, he's obviously not making that much), then there should be expectations commensurate with that amount.

If we don't care about winning, then we should just pay our coach $75,000 a year and roll the ball out there. This was always my argument during the down years – why are we spending $1.2 million a year to miss the tournament consistently? It didn't make sense. We could have missed it for far less. At some point you need to question the financial wisdom of any entity that is just burning money with no financial return.

All of that said, I think Mooney earned the extension. We were a very good team last year and have a chance to have the best team in program history this year. Recruiting has improved tremendously. Maybe he really was handicapped all these years by Gill. Maybe getting rid of Brunt helped recruiting. Maybe we started paying recruits better (I kid, I kid). Whatever the case, we are in a much better position now than we were two years ago.
 
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GKiller said:
Remember he has two years, 2 more gives him that 4. You mean they wanted 6 total? Ok that's some brass balls. Mooney did say the extension was "simple" & with our history I guess he could have got it. But to me I don't know how it could be simple when you're coming off 9 straight years of no NCAA. Mooney & agent Gazelle Group have every right to look after Mooney interests so I don't fault them but come on. It's not so much about Mooney anyway, my opinion of him as a coach is pretty good, but there are many out there. Then u have Hardt talking about educational values, don't all our coaches adhere to that, it is the minimum qualification. I do think it's an overreach and lot of reasonable people feel the same.

97 is right usually u do an extension and it is a PR celebration bc you've had lot of success or your coach is in high demand. Yes pandemic time is factor but we did the 1 year extension years ago under cover of night during the good times.

Ultimately it is a bottom line business. Patience has been shown. 2 in 15 and 0-9 is not good, I don't think anyone wants to accept that here. is it wrong to want to see some results in TEN years? give me some results and then we can talk. Because mooney has been given a hell of a lot, and call me selfish for waiting almost a decade but I'd like some return first. Last year was unlucky but the prior 8 removed the benefit of the doubt. And NCAA bid this year is the bare minimum but that alone would fall well below expectations.
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It was a hypothetical. There was no splash here for a reason is all I’m saying, for many of the reasons you’ve specified.
 
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