Baseball Update

[MolivaManiac]

We fall to the Lambs tonight, 6-4 at The Diamond. We are now 22-23 on the year and .500 in the A10 after having lost 2 of 3 from Umass over the weekend.

It seems that the season is getting away from us, after we showed alot of progress early on.

I fear what the future looks like because we lose some excellent batters to graduation. Any word on incoming recruits?

 

[SpiderVol]

Losing some close games the last few weeks. Injury to Mayers hasn't helped.

One key to next year might be if Mayers gets drafted and signs. We do lose a lot of hitting but the pitching is mostly Fr and So plus Mayers.

 

[MolivaManiac]

What is Jake's injury? I'm not sure I've seen that mentioned here or anywhere. Is his season done?

 

[Tarantula'sDad]

Do not know about Mayers' injury. However, it is clear that he, if drafted, will go to the minors after the season. He has the talent and probably will be drafted.

We do lose some talented position players. Most of the pitching, save Mayers, will be coming back and should be a strong point next season after a year of seasoning. Brockett is being looked at hard by the pros as well. Whereas this year's team has been a power hitting team, next year will be less so and probably will have to play a lot of "small ball". Personally, I think the college game lends itself to this type of style and teams like Dayton, UMass and others have beaten us with that style this season. Hopefully, our recruiting will focus on a catcher, outfielders with speed, and pitchers (can't have too much).

If you really want to help the baseball program, put pressure on the AD to fully fund the program. Currently, it is not.

 

[MolivaManiac]

Any idea how many A10 programs do get full scholarship allotment?

 

[32counter]

Have lost 7 of the last 9.Hopefully, we signed up Niagara,St Peter's and High Point for next year.We could not have had a better front end home schedule.

 

[Spiders05]

TD, unfortunately it's not as easy as saying "fully fund the program." Last I recall, we were two scholarships short of being fully funded. In order to fully fund that, it would cost ~$4,000,000 (4 scholarships - two for men and two for women).

Our athletic endowment is probably growing at a rate that is slower than the increase in tuition, so you can expect more scholarships to be cut across the board in the future. The only two sacred sports are basketball and football.

 

[Tarantula'sDad]

4 schollys = $4M? How do you come up with that?

My point is, fully fund the baseball program and UR will return to its prominence of the early 2000's. Make field improvements like lights, a fixed grandstand with chairbacks (and BATHROOMS), put a deck out in the RF bleachers, plant some trees behind the rest of the outfield, charge $5 per game and the watch the program grow and succeed. Total cost is less than $1M. Meanwhile, football gets new turf, and mink-lined cleats (I exaggerate to make a point).

Oh well, baseball is "not on the AD's radar", so I understand, and that's stating it nicely. Baseball is a high-profile sport that a UR could contend nationally if it set its mind to it, especially since Charlotte is moving out of the A10.

 

[Spiders05]

Each scholarship is worth roughly $50,000. The endowment's spend rate is typically ~5% (although this is probably high with the markets over the last 5 years). 50,000 / 5% = $1,000,000. The two baseball scholarships therefore cost $2 million. IX restrictions would force you to add the same number of women's scholarships. $2m x 2 = $4 million.

I'm not sure how you think you can add lights, a fixed grandstand (with chairbacks and bathrooms), a RF deck and trees for less than $1 million. Can you support that number with any links to similar projects at other schools?

 

[Tarantula'sDad]

$1M is funny money for a scholly. Real costs are much less than that. BTW, what is an endowment "spend rate?" Not being snarky, really want to know. Am I to assume interest rate on monies not invested?

Lights = $250K;
Deck = $25K-$50K tops (current dad of a team member is in construction)
Grandstands = $1M tops (seating for 1000 is about right)
Having a national program = priceless (think of it as advertising the U of R)

Revenue from gate would be new but insignificant at first. Once we have a good program, concessions and gate contribute to the endowment.

Private Universities like Pepperdine, Tulane, Rice, Vandy get attendance of 1000+ for every home game. Make it an event. Pitt Field is a nice setting. Cheap entertainment for the locals.

 

[Spiders05]

Originally posted by Tarantula'sDad:
$1M is funny money for a scholly.

Not being snarky, but your thought on that matter doesn't matter much. That's the approximate cost to endow a scholarship.

The spend rate is just that - the amount of money in the endowment that is spent per year. This is typically calculated over a rolling average so that fluctuations in the value of the endowment won't hurt quite as much. When investing the endowment, the manager will look to achieve a return equal to or greater than the sum of the spend rate + inflation + 100-250bos to grow the endowment organically.

I don't know the first thing about construction, but using our football stadium as a basis for cost/seat, you're looking at $2.8 million for a 1,000 person grandstand ($25 million / 9,000 * 1,000 people). Even if you wanted to argue that we wouldn't need all the bells and whistles and cut the cost in half, you're still looking at a cost that exceeds your estimate by 40%.

I just think it's more than a $1.4M investment (according to your construction estimates plus two new, non-endowed scholarships). I'm thinking it's more in the $6-7 million range.

Lastly, Pepperdine has 350 picture perfect days a year. Rice and Tulane are also located in warm, tropical climates. Vandy plays in the SEC. How do schools like Bucknell do? Schools in cooler climates playing non-BCS ball?

 

[Tarantula'sDad]

OK, say what you want, but the marginal cost of adding an additiional student on partial scholly is negligible. The spend rate is an arbitrary rate set by the University on the opportunity cost of money, I think (couldn't tell by your answer).

Go look at High Point U., Winthrop, Wofford, Gardner-Webb, Elon, JMU. All have better facilities for baseball. At some point, all programs need investment, not just maintenance.

I have been to several weekend series at Pitt Field. Weather has been not just good, but terrific. Hopefully, UR will want to make their baseball program a metaphor for their academic excellence.
This post was edited on 5/10 4:43 PM by Tarantula'sDad

 

[Spiders05]

Originally posted by Tarantula'sDad:
OK, say what you want, but the marginal cost of adding an additiional student on partial scholly is negligible.

Again, whether you believe that it's negligible or not does not matter. In order to create a full scholarship at UR, it costs you roughly $1,000,000.

All those schools you listed (except JMU) are in states south of us. JMU also happens to be a large public university (that has a 25,000 seat FCS football stadium). I checked out a couple of the schools, and Elon's season high attendance record at their stadium is 508. They play good ball there too, yet don't get a lot of fans. Wofford built their stadium 8 years ago at a cost of $1.8 million.

I'm also not sure why you bring up Pitt (a BE member and a large public university). I did check out a couple of box scores and saw attendance there under 300...

I do completely agree that we need to make some improvements to Pitt - the most recent being in '03. I just think that it's going to take a lot more than you think it will. I also happen to think that throwing a lot of money at the baseball team is throwing good money after bad. Baseball, as evidenced by the national polls, is now a southern game, dominated by SEC, Big 12 and Pac 12 teams that have weather advantages. Additionally, it's past its prime and popularity in the sport is largely fading (see link). I'd prefer us to be in the top 1/3 in the A-10 in terms of facilities, while ultimately putting money to use in getting us to full-fledged D-I status in lacrosse, a sport that has tripled in popularity between 2001 and 2010 and a sport that has a lot of potential recruits in the areas from which we typically draw students.

Baseball's Decline

 

[Spiders05]

I thought this was timely.

UL just announced a $4 million expansion of their stadium. They will be adding 1,500 seats along with a terrace.

Patterson Expansion

 

[61 Spider]

If Spider Club is giving 1.6m per year which we expect to hit this year, certainly some of that money could go to fund schlorships in non revenue sports without having to add to the endowment fund. i agree with Tarants dad that improvements need to be made to Pitt Field such as adding lights, concessions stands, rest rooms and need to charge money to see our games. I think a major fund raising needs to be put in place especially among baseball alumni. I see approximately 20 games a year at Pitt Field and hate not to see improvement in the past few years both on the field and to facilities.
I found out at the VCU game that Mayers hurt his hand but could pitch and not swing a bat. Also learned that unfortunately Sterling sprained his rotator cuff and may be out for the rest of the season. That really hurts us.

 

[MolivaManiac]

Thanks for the injury report 61.

Why are we having so many pitching injuries? Just bad luck or is there something else in play?

 

[Tarantula'sDad]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Tarantula'sDad:
OK, say what you want, but the marginal cost of adding an additiional student on partial scholly is negligible.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Again, whether you believe that it's negligible or not does not matter. In order to create a full scholarship at UR, it costs you roughly $1,000,000

OK Spider5, using your figures, it costs the U of R $170,000,000 per year (85 schollies x 2 x $1M) to field an FCS football team. That is before any costs of maintaining a stadium, paying a coach or buying the first piece of equipment. I am sure you have calculated the payback on THAT. Talk about a lousy investment...

The schools I listed are comparable in size to UR, are private save JMU and are in the RELATIVELY same geography and size as UR. And there a lot of good baseball players in the state of VA and neighboring states.

Funding a lacrosse team. LOL. The day that lacrosse overcomes baseball in popularity will be about the same time that soccer overcomes football. Like, NEVER!!!!! My guess is that you have not seen the ratings for the last few College World Series (or Super Regionals, for that matter). College baseball, once you get to that event, is the fastest growing college sport. Why? Because the big, strapping kids with metal bats in their hands make for an entertaining event. And the reason for the SEC, Big 12 and western teams' dominance is not only weather, but also rules changes from 2007 that favor state schools. The rules will change again. No matter. You invest and build gradually so as to compete, which takes time, money and facilities. Winning baseball teams (and basketball and football) are better advertisements for UR than a lacrosse team will EVER be.

 

[Spiders05]

TD, I'm sorry this has devolved into a pissing contest.

FCS football only has 63 scholarships, not 85. And no, that number is not per year, the $1,000,000 per scholarship is to endow the scholarship. I haven't calculated an ROI on that - the school pays for it, so they feel they're getting something out of it, and that's all that matters to me.

You're right, those schools are comparable in size to UR, but again, they're spending more than the $1M max that you initially listed and none of those schools seem to have good attendance (again, Elon's stadium record for a season is just about 2x what we have currently).

Just to give you some idea of where I'm coming from - I have never played LAX and grew up in KY, so none of my friends played it. But it's hard to refute the fact that it's the fastest growing sport in the country (http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2012/04/will-lacrosse-ever-go-mainstream/255690/) with 1.6 million playing it last year (http://www.cnbc.com/id/44628826).

No, I haven't seen the CWS ratings lately. I looked at the 2009 numbers though and saw that 1.3 million people watched on TV (http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2009/06/19/espn-ncaa-men%E2%80%99s-college-world-series-telecasts-posting-significant-audience-increases/21086/). That year, the average game lasted 3 hours and 38 minutes. The games take way too long, which is a good part of the reason you're seeing a decline in the number of both participants (youth leagues) and attendees (MLB). This, from my previously linked WSJ article, is an example of the exodus from the game: "As for Little League, which covers kids aged 4 to 18, about two million kids played in the U.S. last year, compared to about 2.5 million in 1996?an overall decline of 25%." 25% decline in 15 years.

You say that LAX will never be more popular than baseball. You may very well be correct in terms of the entire country (especially considering our Hispanic population). According to the UR LAX coach (and he is very biased, admittedly) "he believes the men's lacrosse home games draw better than any UR sports other than football and basketball. Roberts chose not to estimate attendance figures." It may already be more popular on UR's campus than baseball.

Lastly, I'd love to see your support for "College baseball, once you get to that event, is the fastest growing college sport." Your mention of 2007 rule changes to favor state schools also makes me ask the question, "Why do we think we can be competitive if the deck is stacked against us?"

I'm more than happy to bow out at this point, as I've made my points.

 

[SpiderFan]

Actually I think there's a few articles out there that Varsity Pissing Contests are gaining in popularity and will soon have NCAA sponsorship--we should get in on the ground floor. SEveral os us could be head coaches easily.

 

[Spiders05]

I think I still have eligibility!

 

[Tarantula'sDad]

I'm in! I'd like to nominate myself captain.

 

[WebSpinner]

a nice, funny way to end this. i was on the kite flying team while at UR, no scholies but we got high frequently with or without wind.

 

[BeavCowboy]

"Additionally, it's past its prime and popularity in the sport is largely fading."

Actually, baseball is more popular than ever as a spectator sport, factoring in the majors, minors, unaffiliated independent leagues, college baseball and the 40-plus summer wood bat leagues, one of the biggest growth industries in athletics.

Baseball remains the most affordable, and by far the most popular, sports entertainment option.

 

[72Spider]

Spiders win today at Rhode Island, 3-2; baseball, not lax

 

[MolivaManiac]

Good win today. Getting another win tomorrow or Sunday would be huge for our chances to get to the A10 tourney.

 

[MolivaManiac]

We win 5-2 in 14 innings! Let's get the sweep tomorrow!

Adam McConnell delivered the big hit, a 2-run double.