this is a great point Sman. And even if he has made a decision, who knows how he’ll feel in March. I remember Nick Sherod saying he was done with the game when he tore his 2nd ACL. And he ended up changing his mind and coming back for another season
Austin Ball - 2023 Offer
- Thread starter SFspidur
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I guess your key word above is currently. The point everyone is making is that there has to be a decision regarding the fourth spot, that decision is likely Crabtree’s and it hasn’t been made. So UR can’t say there isn’t a spot, just that there isn’t a spot currently. That is why I think UR will host and Ball and Durkin will have to decide whether they come or not. If one or both of them come, that would show a great interest in the program.
It will be interesting to see what happens with the previously announced visits.
Again, the fact that we are still actively recruiting and hosting guys for visits, means that we still have roster slots to fill.
we don't know that we are. we haven't heard anything since Tanner committed.
yes, if we heard Durkin is visiting this weekend then we know we are still active.
Native, I've never heard of anyone taking an official visit to a school that doesn't have an opening.
But, Nick came back when it did not matter scholarship wise. No way would Nick have changed his mind and tried to come back if we had a limit. He would not have put Mooney and the team in an awkward spot. I'm not saying I know Crab has decided. I am saying I think he probably has. I'm not sure I agree with the he might change his mind talk. If he was possibly done after last year, which I think entered his mind, I just feel he would definitely be done after this year. If he told Mooney "this is definitely my last year", he is not going to change his mind after March. What would change his mind? He has graduated, he has an injury history, and his minutes are not going up. And, these players know how scholarships work. If he tells Mooney he is 100% done after this year, so go ahead and offer someone, he is not going to put us in a bad spot next spring by changing his mind.
What's cool is we are even talking about this. You know your program is in a good spot when you are talking about your 13th scholarship, and wondering if it might be taken by guys as good as Ball or Durkin.
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I absolutely agree if he says that, then we go ahead with Durkin and Ball.
I just don't know if he feels that way. I don't think any of us know. maybe Dad.
I think a kid can only take 5 official visits in his senior year. Durkin and Ball have a bunch of options. I don't see why they'd use an official on a school that they can't commit to. I don't think either is waiting until April to commit.
if they visit, then I'll assume we know we have a spot for one of them.
u said “I've never heard of anyone taking an official visit to a school that doesn't have an opening”…I replied it does happen, my reply wasn’t specific to Durkin or Ball.
gotcha.
I've heard of officials where the school hasn't offered yet. just not when they're full. you've heard of that for basketball?
I doubt frequency is high but yes I’ve heard & read that b4. Heck schools sign kids & go over limit when they don’t exactly know what ship will open but just know it will due to a transfer that occurs later by player or school preference.
Who does that? I have never read about a school doing that. Where, at the end of the year, an article might show that a team has 14 ships and needs to get rid of someone. I don't recall ever reading an article or seeing anything on that.
I thought VCU did that once. but we don't know the whole story. they may have already known a kid would be leaving. just didn't go public with it.
No worries. I just have never seen or heard that. If you have, cool. I was just wondering what schools might have done that. Certainly wouldn't be good to have that reputation of offering too many guys and then having to run guys off. I would definitely bring that up and use that against you during recruiting.
I thought they did that a few times. But the transfers were always close together.
At VCU someone transfers in and a few days later someone transfers out.
AT UR someone transfers out and a few days later someone transfers in.
In both case I assume all info is known by the school, but just a very different way of making it public.
I thought Duquesne was the school who often has 18 players on roster in September before making final cuts similar to the NFL...
Yeah, Duquesne has certainly appeared to do this quite a bit under Dambrot.
Yeah & they probably do recruit against it. u have heard of the term "run guys off" obv u just used it yourself. Let me ask do u think no coach has ever run somebody off when they were over the limit of ships and needed one. Think of some of the shady coaches out there.
Honestly I'm a little surprised u & sman have never heard of it ever occurring. My guess is a few other posters at least have and I see VCU & Duq already referenced, which sounds familiar to me too but idk specifically on them.
But it's good to get surprised. Happens to me too. OT I had a nephew years ago who decided to go to UNCW. I was like cool congrats "The Dub". He said I've never heard of that b4. I said just wait. I think about an hour into his freshman year, or maybe it was even earlier (hopefully) he contacted me and said I get it now Uncle GKiller.
There haven’t been Covid years before either. In addition, Crabtree has had multiple years to think about whether he wants to take the Covid year or not, so his decision isn’t anything like the first super seniors from that standpoint, plus the fact that none of those guys returning impacted the scholarship limit.
Last, the available scholarships without considering possible transfers is a minimum of two and a maximum of four. So far there have been 3 verbal commitments leaving one possible spot. Thus, there is a potential opening. If Durkin or Ball have significant interest, I think they still come.
? Have no idea how this relates to anything, or backs up your opinion, but all good. So, if I say "runs guys off" that means it's common and I had to have heard it all the time?? Well, what would you call it if someone did that? And, if you are so surprised sman and I have not read or heard about this, you would think you could show us plenty of examples since you have read about it so much out there. Again, not saying you are wrong. Just saying, I haven't read about teams doing this, and I would be interested in knowing what teams did. And, I need a little more than your reading about VCU and Duquesne on our message board to convince me.
And, to answer your question about whether coaches out there have done this, I think plenty have let guys know they don't fit, there's little playing time for them if they stay, etc., and as a result it was known the player was moving on BEFORE offering what would be a 14th scholarship. I just am not aware of teams having 14 for the following year without knowing for sure someone is leaving. Answer this for me....what if they all stay?
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Then someone gets run off. They're told their scholarship will not be renewed.
And, you see Mooney doing this? Seriously? Let's say guys like maybe Dread, Randolph, Walz, or Dji, have worked their tails off and represented our university with nothing but class, and done great academically. Done everything we have asked them to. You really think Mooney would tell one of them they are done if they all wanted to stay? You can't be serious. If this happens like you guys think it does, don't you think this would be big news that we would hear about, and be a big time bad rep for the program that does it? Wouldn't the parents be absolutely furious about this, and make a big deal about it? We would certainly hear about it, yet G can't find anything showing me.
I do not think Mooney would do that at all. Didn't say that.
He may give a guy a realistic outlook on his likely playing time for the following year that could sway a guy toward moving on, but he's not going to operate like some of the sketchier coaches out there.
He may give a guy a realistic outlook on his likely playing time for the following year that could sway a guy toward moving on, but he's not going to operate like some of the sketchier coaches out there.
wow VT & I was just starting to like you again. u r changing the debate at minimum or outright making stuff up.
1. never said it was "common"
2. never said I had read about it "so much out there"
3. Correct, most coaches don't oversign, but that was never a question either.
4. Was never about Mooney
5. I wasn't the one who brought up VCU or Duq
6. I already answered the part about reading it & showing examples. If I had the foresight to know I would be having this convo on a message board & also would have to prove it with a written documented source at my fingertips I would have done so. My bad. & I'm not your internet researcher, I'm sure u know what Google is.
But alas...I literally just did two quick searches to appease your wild demand. took 10 seconds. One for 'Dambrot scholarship limit' because Duq was raised by a couple other posters & another for 'oversigning college basketball'. These pulled up immediately. The one on Duq alludes to them doing it, being way over limit & the practice as a strategic move. The 2nd one talks about Pitino doing it at Louisville and it came from a reputable college bball reporter Rob Dauster.
http://www.duqsm.com/duquesne-basketball-program-looking-toward-next-season/
https://www.athleticscholarships.net/2012/09/18/why-is-oversigning-accepted-in-basketball.htm
However I'm under no illusion this will satisfy anything for u
Yep and the ncaa can't do anything about it because the scholarship is technically a 1 year renewable. Most have more integrity but a Slick Rick Pitino etc. can get away with it fine.
The Duquesne article sure does have a lot of unknowns there. "Maybe this guy is on scholarship, maybe not"...... and the Louisville article is from a long time ago. And, what do you mean this was never about Mooney? Your whole argument is we can sign someone else this fall and get to 14 because in your mind someone will definitely leave. How is that not about Mooney over signing? And, why dislike me again just because we disagree? I keep saying all good with your opinion.
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The bottom line is I don't think Mooney would have offered 3 guys this fall without knowing for a fact Tyler or Crabtree is gone after this year. And, I don't think he will offer a 4th guy this fall unless we know both are gone. Just my opinion. G might think we can get to 14 and then assume a transfer. I disagree, and don't see Mooney doing that, but that is fine if we disagree.
Sigh. Because u r making things up I never said and keep saying why can't G show me an article, when I already answered u. So I don't think u r really good w my opinion, that's why. Take away the Mooney apologist stuff & personally I think u know a lot about college basketball, so I'm interested in your opinions and facts. If u want to die on this hill topic so be it.
Keep in mind those links r not even the things I read or heard! There r more. I remember them but no I'm not going to be able to find them. So I quickly found those yet I held little hope it would appease u and I was right. But I think those links are pretty valid. I don't care that 1 is from 2001, all I said to sman was simply "It happens" in response to him saying he's never heard of it ever. well unequivocally there it is in black & white. And a zebra like slick rick pitino doesn't change his stripes imo. And regarding Duq, come on no coach is going to come right out & admit to it. If your standard is an outright quote from a coach that they do it or have done it that is a ridiculous barometer.
We would not be at 14, u have said Burton and Crabtree r gone, we can take 1 more if true. Yes someone will definitely leave, when it happens every year & w the era of college bball we're in, that is a very reasonable deduction for me, or a coach, to make. How the staff handles is of course up to them. But I've never said they would kick out a player. They don't have to, it will happen organically. Roster management is important, if they are not anticipating a transfer that is as close to a lock as possible, well that's not too smart. When u say well what happens if nobody transfers...but that doesn't happen. As I've said b4 I think there is a mathematically a greater chance Burton gets injured and then changes his mind on returning then there is on no transfer. I hope that doesn't make anyone's big brain explode.
PS Austin Ball come visit Richmond u won't regret it!
But, if we can get this back to our school, I don't think we have we ever gone to 14 in the fall and hoped for a transfer to get us to 13. So, it really doesn't matter how many transfers we might have had. Doesn't matter who else might or might not have done this. History says this is not the way Mooney does things, and I don't see him starting this year.
We can but the prior posts u were very interested in reading articles about oversigning in college bball.
technically at 14 now. I don't think we've ever gone to 14 and planned for someone not to use their remaining eligibility to get to 13 either. But u have burton crab, and transfers out there so it's no big deal. Never said what Mooney will do, but only that he has options. u can easily say it's for Burton Crab or both and IF IF something changed w either 1 of them, like a Burton season ending injury which I don't think anyone could deny wouldn't at least minimally increase the odds of him coming back, well then we'd have a normal transfer anyway & u r still covered. Conceptual but reasonable to me, but never said what Moon would do in practice.
without going back to check my words, I don't believe I was saying I've never heard of a school taking an extra kid. we don't always know what schools knows about kids coming back. and that's true at UR this year as well.
I meant I've never heard of a kid (with a ton of options like Ball and Durkin) taking one of their senior year official visits to a school that didn't have a scholarship to offer. and I'm not sure we have one right now.
all I've been saying is we'll have a better idea tomorrow! we may still be recruiting for a spot. the conversations may or may not have taken place. if we hear Durkin isn't visiting, then it would appear we're done. if he's still comes, then I'm pretty sure we're filling another spot. I just don't believe we'd host Durkin or Ball without being able to sign them in November just in case someone leaves in April. they'll be long gone by then.
Don't worry...he will decommit after his official here...
