Finley Bizjack - 2023 Offer

SFspidur

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Candidate for the all-name team. 6'3" combo guard out of Dallas area, rated 4 stars and #104 nationally by Rivals.

Picked up some offers from the likes of Stanford, TCU, and DePaul a couple of years ago, and SLU, GW, and SMU offered last summer. Seems we're his first offer since last October.


 

SFspidur

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Not sure what to think of this offer now that Smith is on board. With potentially only one spot left for 2023, it needs to go to a big as a replacement for Grace. (Yes, things can certainly change with guys either transferring or moving on, but have to plan for only one slot right now.)

Did we know Smith would be committing 24 hours after we were making this offer to Bizjack, regardless of whether we knew it would be to us?
 

VT4700

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Why do we need a big? After Grace leaves, we still have Quinn and Walz, and Bigelow and Noyes are both 6'7. Get the best player. We probably will have 2 spots left anyway because I don't see Tyler staying 2 more years, especially at his age. And, will Crabtree want to play a 6th year? I would say assume 2 spots left, and maybe 3.


 
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spiderman

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Why do we need a big? After Grace leaves, we still have Quinn and Walz, and Bigelow and Noyes are both 6'7.


you always need 3 that can play center. and we always have. every single year.
if one guy misses a game, you can't expect the other to play all 40.
6'7" is nice, but 200 lb guys can't play center.
 
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VT4700

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you always need 3 that can play center. and we always have. every single year.
if one guy misses a game, you can't expect the other to play all 40.
6'7" is nice, but 200 lb guys can't play center.
We have? Last year, we had Grant and Grace. If you count Nate here ( when was Nate on the floor without Grant or Grace?), then you need to count Bigelow and Noyes.
 

spiderman

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We have? Last year, we had Grant and Grace. If you count Nate here ( when was Nate on the floor without Grant or Grace?), then you need to count Bigelow and Noyes.
Sal was a 4/5 at over 6'9". Nathan was strictly a 4, but at least he weighed 225.
 
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VT4700

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I look at it like this. We had Grant, Grace, and Sal. Grace beat out Sal, and then we basically had Grant and Grace. Next couple years we have Quinn and Walz. I would rather go get the best player available instead of making sure I get a big when that big might never see the floor. And, you can't turn down a better player because you want a big in case someone gets hurt. If Grant or Grace got hurt last year, Sal still wasn't going to get much playing time.
 
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spiderman

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I look at it like this. We had Grant, Grace, and Sal. Grace beat out Sal, and then we basically had Grant and Grace. Next couple years we have Quinn and Walz. I would rather go get the best player available instead of making sure I get a big when that big might never see the floor.
point is you have to have 3 on the roster. doesn't matter that Sal wasn't playing. he's there to break glass in case of emergency. I'll bet anything you want that we add a guy who can play the 5 in the 2023 class.
 
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VT4700

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point is you have to have 3 on the roster. doesn't matter that Sal wasn't playing. he's there to break glass in case of emergency. I'll bet anything you want that we add a guy who can play the 5 in the 2023 class.
We very well might, but it doesn't mean that is all we are looking at. That is not smart coaching if it is. So, go get a 5 who may never play just because he is a 5? If Quinn or Walz get hurt next year, would we really be better playing a true freshman "5" over one of our more experienced and probably more talented non bigs? If he looks like a real good one, yes, get him, but how many real good ones want to come here when we have Quinn and Walz the next 2 years? Let's get our next solid big in 2024. "Come here and learn from and back up Quinn for a year with Walz, and then compete with Walz for a starting spot, or maybe even have some time with both of you out there" sounds a lot better to me as a recruit than " come here next year, sit behind Quinn for 2 years, then compete with Walz in year 3, or we might need you if there is an injury".
 
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SFspidur

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I think we need a big, but I don't think it needs to be a 5. Sign me up for Lang or Reed in the next class.

(I do think there will be more spots available once everything shakes out, but can't count on it.)
 

VT4700

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I think we need a big, but I don't think it needs to be a 5. Sign me up for Lang or Reed in the next class.

(I do think there will be more spots available once everything shakes out, but can't count on it.)
I could see trying to get that 6'6 or 6'7 type guy who could give you minutes down low over a 6'0 guy when we look solid at PG the next few years, but if a 6'3 or 6'4 shooter is available and I think he helps our team sooner rather than later, I am not turning him down. I am still looking at those guys and others, and not only focusing on bigger guys.
 

spiderman

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I think we need a big, but I don't think it needs to be a 5. Sign me up for Lang or Reed in the next class.

(I do think there will be more spots available once everything shakes out, but can't count on it.)
not saying a straight 5, SF. ideally a 4/5 type who could play with Quinn or Walz, not just instead of.
like a Grace, Harper, Giddings, Moliva type.

we'll have 5 guards in Dji, Roche, Nelseon, Dread and Smith
we'll have 5 wings in Burton, Crabtree, Bigelow, Randolph and Noyes
we'll have 2 guys that are strictly 5's in Quinn and Walz.

we don't need a guard or a wing.
 

urmite

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I do agree we take the best available. It may not fit exactly what we are looking for, but some players are too good not to take.

We know we are losing Goose & Grace next year.
I assume Smith is not a direct replacement for Goose, but is good enough that you don't turn him down.

Now we need to replace Grace, it may not be an exact match.

But I will disagree that Quinn + Walz > Quinn + Walz + Grace...
 

Eight Legger

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Statistical odds are that one or more of Dread/Randolph/Noyes will transfer after this year, so we'll probably have more room to reassemble if we want.
 
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spiderman

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Statistical odds are that one or more of Dread/Randolph/Noyes will transfer after this year, so we'll probably have more room to reassemble if we want.
and we'll recruit in case that happens. but I don't believe we'll take in anyone smaller than a 4/5 until we know that's happening (or decide that's happening, if we do that).
 
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VT4700

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not saying a straight 5, SF. ideally a 4/5 type who could play with Quinn or Walz, not just instead of.
like a Grace, Harper, Giddings, Moliva type.

we'll have 5 guards in Dji, Roche, Nelseon, Dread and Smith
we'll have 5 wings in Burton, Crabtree, Bigelow, Randolph and Noyes
we'll have 2 guys that are strictly 5's in Quinn and Walz.

we don't need a guard or a wing.
We are taking 2023, right? We won't have Burton, and Crabtree is probably iffy on a 6th year. Bigelow rebounds as well or better than any of the guys you mentioned. With so many 3 and 4 guard lineups our there, he could easily guard someone a little bigger if necessary for a few minutes here and there, and there will be plenty of times where Quinn and 6'7 Bigelow out there would be just as big if not bigger than the other team's 2 biggest guys.
Once again, we can just disagree on the importance of this "4" position you love so much. You mentioned Moliva. Nothing against him, and I thought he did fine here, but he didn't shoot the 3, and he never averaged more than five a game in five seasons here. I will say it again, nothing against him, he was a good basketball player, but I'm certainly not turning down someone who I think could shoot the 3 and give us more production because he is not 6'7 like Moliva. Same with Giddings, who never averaged more than 5 a game until his senior year, when he started and gave us 8 points and 4 rebounds a game while shooting 28% from 3. Not going to criticize that either, but what about that makes you so excited that we have to have that instead of maybe a smaller guy who can shoot the 3? It would be crazy to recruit like that, and limit yourself.
 

97spiderfan

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Statistical odds are that one or more of Dread/Randolph/Noyes will transfer after this year, so we'll probably have more room to reassemble if we want.
Agreed. There is not enough time for all of the players we have at the 2/3 position. Those that get few minutes may look elsewhere next year. If one does leave, our priority needs to be a big man, whether that be a 4 or 5, we can debate, but they need to be big and have some bulk to them.
 

spider23

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Philosophically, agree with sman and company here in that would like a big guy, not necessarily a 5 b/c we do have Quinn 2 years with Walz in the wings.

However, will have to agree with 4700 here - go get the best available player. We finally have some momentum and visibility coming off our run and defeat of Iowa. Just signed a top 150 guard, get the next best available guy that we can. If we end up needing an interior guy later - grab him in the portal. That is the way of the world now.
 

spiderman

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We are taking 2023, right? We won't have Burton, and Crabtree is probably iffy on a 6th year. Bigelow rebounds as well or better than any of the guys you mentioned. With so many 3 and 4 guard lineups our there, he could easily guard someone a little bigger if necessary for a few minutes here and there, and there will be plenty of times where Quinn and 6'7 Bigelow out there would be just as big if not bigger than the other team's 2 biggest guys.
Once again, we can just disagree on the importance of this "4" position you love so much. You mentioned Moliva. Nothing against him, and I thought he did fine here, but he didn't shoot the 3, and he never averaged more than five a game in five seasons here. I will say it again, nothing against him, he was a good basketball player, but I'm certainly not turning down someone who I think could shoot the 3 and give us more production because he is not 6'7 like Moliva. Same with Giddings, who never averaged more than 5 a game until his senior year, when he started and gave us 8 points and 4 rebounds a game while shooting 28% from 3. Not going to criticize that either, but what about that makes you so excited that we have to have that instead of maybe a smaller guy who can shoot the 3? It would be crazy to recruit like that, and limit yourself.
I've got to stop calling it the 4 since it throws you off so much. I'll just call it a rebounding forward. I'm not talking McHale here. Burton can be my rebounding forward. Bigelow's cutting it close because he's only 200, but sure. he a 3 but can be my rebounding forward. Noyes can't yet. I don't know that he rebounds. and not at 190. but maybe in time he'll be bulky enough.

my point remains you always have 3 guys that can defend a 5. go through every one of our teams. the 3rd guy doesn't need to be a true 5. in fact ideally he's not. he'll be a 4/5. but he has to be big enough to defend a 5 if needed.

if we know Burton or Crabtree will be gone (which we don't), then that changes things. but until then we have 1 spot open. and it has to go to a guy that can step in and defend a 5 if needed since odds are at some point one of the big guys will be out. Burton, Bigelow and Noyes can't defend a 5.
 
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VT4700

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So, even though we have rarely needed 3 guys on the team at the same time who could guard a 5, you still would only focus on that for your final scholarship, in case we needed that at some point? Sorry, I just can't see how that makes any sense, for the recruit or for us, especially considering we just got Quinn and Bigelow to go with Walz from last year. So, last year we get Walz, this year we add Quinn, and you think a talented big that can guard a 5 will be all excited to come here and play "in case someone gets hurt". Go get the best player, if he is a 6'7 or 6'8 rebounding type, fine. But, make sure he has talent to go with his size, and don't turn down a more talented player who might be smaller.
 

spiderman

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again, go through any of our rosters, any year, any coach. you'll have 3 guys that can defend a 5. at least one can also be a guy who could play on the floor with a 5. Quinn and Walz will never play together. this next guy is a guy that can. like Grace.

you don't ignore position in recruiting. you don't take all guards no matter how good they are. we're replacing Grace.
 

MrTbone

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again, go through any of our rosters, any year, any coach. you'll have 3 guys that can defend a 5. at least one can also be a guy who could play on the floor with a 5. Quinn and Walz will never play together. this next guy is a guy that can. like Grace.

you don't ignore position in recruiting. you don't take all guards no matter how good they are. we're replacing Grace.
Sman, you’ll never win this argument with 4700. I’ve tried.

But I agree that the priority has to be a “big” 4/5 guy. I prefer if that was more of a forward than center because I see the logic behind how buried on the bench that player would be for Center minutes but I think there are minutes at the F this type gets that fill in at 5 if we’re in a pinch.
 
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GKiller

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but could our 3rd guy on the team that supposedly could guard a 5 really guard a 5. Sal? Luke P? Friendshuh? No offense to Sal he was a good guy on the team but I'm not sure he could. Certainly you need roster balance - & don't get me wrong I'd love a stretch 4 that can play inside & out - but if you're reaching for a 5 or a power 4 it doesn't do you very good. You are better off taking a better wing player who creates more comp imo.
 
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VT4700

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T, I'm not trying to win an argument. It's just a simple disagreement. I don't expect everyone to always agree. I agree with Sman a lot so it's fine if we disagree a few times. He thinks the 4 position is super important. I don't even think it exists anymore. He thinks we need three 4/5 types to guard another team's 5, I think 2 is plenty, and if we ever needed a 3rd for a few minutes, one of our other guys could do it. He thinks we have to get a big, rebounding 4/5 type with our last spot, and we should only go after that type of guy right now. I say go get the best guy, preferably a 3 point shooter because you can never have too many of them. All good though. Not trying to win anything here.

As far as minutes at the F position is concerned, I guess we disagree here to. I think the game is guard heavy right now, so I am more of a 3G, 1F, 1 big kind of guy for my ideal lineup. So, as a result, I would want more Gs on my roster.
 

VT4700

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but could our 3rd guy on the team that supposedly could guard a 5 really guard a 5. Sal? Luke P? Friendshuh? No offense to Sal he was a good guy on the team but I'm not sure he could. Certainly you need roster balance - & don't get me wrong I'd love a stretch 4 that can play inside & out - but if you're reaching for a 5 or a power 4 it doesn't do you very good. You are better off taking a better wing player who creates more comp imo.
Well said.
 

spiderman

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but could our 3rd guy on the team that supposedly could guard a 5 really guard a 5. Sal? Luke P? Friendshuh? No offense to Sal he was a good guy on the team but I'm not sure he could. Certainly you need roster balance - & don't get me wrong I'd love a stretch 4 that can play inside & out - but if you're reaching for a 5 or a power 4 it doesn't do you very good. You are better off taking a better wing player who creates more comp imo.
yes Sal, Luke and Paul were all brought in with a plan to play in the front court. because we need guys to do that. how they turned out is irrelevant. you don't just ignore the position because some guys didn't pan out.

you want more wing comp when we have 5 or 6 wings already, but don't want post comp when we have 2?
 

VT4700

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yes Sal, Luke and Paul were all brought in with a plan to play in the front court. because we need guys to do that. how they turned out is irrelevant. you don't just ignore the position because some guys didn't pan out.

you want more wing comp when we have 5 or 6 wings already, but don't want post comp when we have 2?
Sal, Luke, and Paul were beat out by better players, and never showed enough to play much. We HAD to find other bigs then. You are right about not ignoring a position if guys don't pan out. They didn't pan out, so we addressed the position. None were brought here as a "3rd guy to guard the other team's 5". And, we certainly didn't have Quinn and Walz types already here when we recruited them.

And, how they turned out is not irrelevant because you are using them as the 3rd guy we need to guard the other team's 5 when we pretty much never needed or used them. So, we would have then gotten a 4th big if you need 3 to play, right? We certainly never did that. It sounds like you would rather have a 6'9 Paul Friendshuh type because we might need that 3rd big to guard a 5, instead of maybe getting a 6'4 or 6'5 versatile, 3 point shooter. Wow. Seriously?
 
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GKiller

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yes Sal, Luke and Paul were all brought in with a plan to play in the front court. because we need guys to do that. how they turned out is irrelevant. you don't just ignore the position because some guys didn't pan out.

you want more wing comp when we have 5 or 6 wings already, but don't want post comp when we have 2?

You brought up Sal earlier & also said u always have 3 guys that can defend a 5. Yeah they were on roster but if they can't defend it so what. Coaches reach. They do. And they may have reached for that positional reason. That's on them to either not reach & get a better player or maybe gently persuade those guys to move on. But yeah I'd take another guy like Bigelow who I'd rather play out of position defensively but could do it on emergency basis better than a weaker 3rd guy.
 
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VT4700

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We are talking 2023 here. Quinn will probably be playing a ton of minutes, and Walz should be a solid back up. It's really not that complicated. Quinn guards the other team's big. If Quinn gets in foul trouble or is injured, Walz guards the other team's big. When Walz needs a break, and if Quinn is out, give him a break when the other team's big takes a break. If the other team's big plays 40 minutes, good for him, and we could survive with an athletic 6'7 guy like Bigelow on him for a few minutes while Walz sits. Certainly not worth making sure we add a Paul Friendshuh to the roster, who we wouldn't play anyway even if the above scenario did happen. Now, if we could add someone with size who could play and help, sure, go get him. But, don't limit yourself to just that type of guy. And, with Quinn and Walz here, we should make sure the other guys can shoot the 3. So, sure, go get a 6'8 guy who can rebound and shoot the 3. Good luck with that. Maybe we can find one, but it would be foolish to limit the recruiting to just that.
 
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VT4700

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I guess we can look no farther than the thread title. This guy is a 4 star combo guard who is barely outside the top 100 in the country. But, some on here say don't even recruit him because we have to get that forward/big type guy who can guard a 3 in an injury, emergency situation? Sorry, but I just can't see anything smart about that.
 

spiderman

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I love Bizjack. Smith took his guard spot. wish we could have them both. but like you said, it's not that complicated. unless a spot opens up, we need a bigger guy. it's basic roster management. we obviously didn't hit on all the bigs over the years (or all the smalls either), but you have to have depth inside.

(I think these dates are good. might be off on the transfers.)

2011-12: we have 3 guys that can defend a 5. Garrett (sr), Duinker (sr), Williams (so)
two bigs are graduating so what do we do?

2012-13: bring in ANO and Luke. Luke was thought to be a great recruit. didn't pan out. we still have ANO and Williams.

2013-14: Luke leaves. Terry Allen is one of the 4's that can defend a 5 at 6'8" 235. still have ANO, Williams, and Deion. Williams is a senior ...

2014-15: so we add TJ. with ANO, Allen and Deion.

2015-16: ANO leaves. we add Friendshuh and Wood. with Cline, Allen and Deion

2016-17: Allen and Taylor leave. we add Golden and Kwesi. still have TJ and Wood and Paul

2017-18: Wood leaves, add JMA and Cayo. still have Golden, Paul ... we added Solly in there somewhere

2018-19: lose Paul and Solly. we add Grace and Sal

etc ... this is painful. we're replacing Grace with a bigger guy. not a wing or a 4th point guard just because he's good. size matters. positions matter. Bigelow weighs 200. he's a tall guard who we'll play at forward. he's never guarding a big man. I'm done.
 
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VT4700

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I am sorry you felt like you had to do all that (meaningless) research. My goodness, several of those guys you mentioned NEVER guarded a 5. Never! And, we never wanted them to, never planned on them doing that, and never did our recruiting based on the ridiculous thought that they might. Some rarely played at all.

You mentioned Bigelow weighing 200 and said no way, but you earlier mentioned 200 lb Deion Taylor ( same height as Bigelow) and said Yes. Lol. My guess is we never will have to worry about Bigelow or anyone else guarding a 5 because we have Quinn and Walz.

You mentioned Wood? When did he ever guard a big? You think we ever wanted or planned on that happening? Is that why we got him? To guard a "5"??? LOL. My goodness, can you at least keep it real here?

You mentioned Friendshuh all 4 years, as if we ever went into the year and did our recruiting based on him possibly being a key piece and having to guard a 5 for us.

Solly? Seriously? "Hey, Solly, work on guarding a 5 okay"? What the heck, man.

This is unbelievable. We can disagree, and we obviously do, but to think that with a straight face you can say you would rather have an extra big type for depth who may never even see the floor over a 4 star top 100ish recruit like Bizjack is one of the craziest things I have ever heard on here. But, that's your opinion, so it is what it is, and we can disagree, but I would like to ask you if you think we are going to pull our offers to guards and wings now, and not even look at any for 2023? So, you think we will now not even consider adding a G or wing?

 
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VT4700

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I think we need a big, but I don't think it needs to be a 5. Sign me up for Lang or Reed in the next class.

(I do think there will be more spots available once everything shakes out, but can't count on it.)
Maybe can't count on that, but we can certainly count on Burton having only 1 more year at the most for us. He will be 23 for next year's draft. No way does he wait till he is 24.
 

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