2024 Presidential Election

[Eight Legger]

"Dear federal agencies,
I hereby order you to register AND MOBILIZE all unregistered voters who lean left. Failure to do so will result in immediate termination.
- Joe Biden"

Is that pretty much what happened? Really?

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

Trump has got to be one of the most, if not the most, anti-military Presidents and Presidential candidates in history. Here is his quote from yesterday when he was talking about Miriam Adelson, a Republican donor whom he awarded the Presidential Medal of Freedom when he was President:

“It’s the equivalent of the congressional Medal of Honor,” Trump said of the Presidential Medal of Freedom. “But the civilian version, it’s actually much better because everyone that gets the Congressional Medal of Honor, they’re soldiers.”

“They’re either in very bad shape because they’ve been hit so many times by bullets or they’re dead,” he said. “[Adelson] gets it, and she’s a healthy, beautiful woman, and they’re rated equal, but she got the Presidential Medal of Freedom.”

This goes right along with his comment that soldiers who died for this country are "suckers and losers" and when he asked "what was in it for them?" when referring to why soldiers would die defending this country. And these comments are coming from a scumbag who dodged the draft and claimed his "personal Viet Nam" was avoiding STD's in this country while his contemporaries were serving in the military and many were dying.

Only Trump and his cult followers would deem a Republican mega donor more important that the soldiers who died fighting for our country. How any Veteran could vote for Trump is beyond me.

 

[Eight Legger]

I guess those who do must not think much of themselves either.

 

[Gallipoli]

I still think Trump is unelectable and that November will be the last time we will hear from him.

I also think Biden won the debate.

 

[urfan1]

I still think Trump is unelectable and that November will be the last time we will hear from him.

I also think Biden won the debate.

I sure hope you are right.

 

[Wood Hall]

The only way he got elected in 2016 was because of the Electoral College, a relic that needs to be jettisoned. He lost the popular vote by more than three million.

He never has been popular with the general public.

 

[KE Spider]

Yeah, if we can't have our way, let's change the rules. Same with debasing the Supreme Court because it has a conservative majority for first time in decades. Petulance populates a good part of the Left.

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

Yeah, if we can't have our way, let's change the rules. Same with debasing the Supreme Court because it has a conservative majority for first time in decades. Petulance populates a good part of the Left.

Every judge in this country is subject to a code of Ethics, except the 9 justices of the most powerful court in the country. Why would anyone think the Supreme Court should be exempt from an enforceable Code of Ethics? Hardly petulance. And if it had come out years ago that RBG had accepted 4 million dollars from wealthy Democratic donors, the Republicans would have gone crazy, and rightfully so.

 

[Wood Hall]

Yeah, if we can't have our way, let's change the rules. Same with debasing the Supreme Court because it has a conservative majority for first time in decades. Petulance populates a good part of the Left.

The person with the most votes wins every single election in this country, with the exception of the most important election.

The electoral college was a sop to the slave-holding states, a way to make sure the common voter didn't really elect the president. It serves no purpose other than to invalidate most people's votes. Instead of contributing to the total vote and helping their candidate win, a Republican voting in Oregon or a Democrat voting in Wyoming have essentially wasted their votes, because their candidate has no possibility of winning in those states.

The electoral college reduces what should be a national election to a contest in which three or four battleground states determine the election.

One person, one votes, most votes wins.

Yes, change the rules, which the campaign underway to eliminate the EC hopes to do. By following the amendment procedure in the Constitution, a concept all of you Republican originalists should embrace.

 

[Gallipoli]

The person with the most votes wins every single election in this country, with the exception of the most important election.

The electoral college was a sop to the slave-holding states, a way to make sure the common voter didn't really elect the president. It serves no purpose other than to invalidate most people's votes. Instead of contributing to the total vote and helping their candidate win, a Republican voting in Oregon or a Democrat voting in Wyoming have essentially wasted their votes, because their candidate has no possibility of winning in those states.

The electoral college reduces what should be a national election to a contest in which three or four battleground states determine the election.

One person, one votes, most votes wins.

Yes, change the rules, which the campaign underway to eliminate the EC hopes to do. By following the amendment procedure in the Constitution, a concept all of you Republican originalists should embrace.

The only state that is not represented in the Electoral College is the state of immigration. The rest of us don't want to live in California or Oregon.

 

[Eight Legger]

Alternatively, let's change every state and local election to the Electoral College system and give urban voters a more heavily weighed influence on the outcome. Something tells me the GOP might suddenly be opposed to that idea.

 

[Wood Hall]

The only state that is not represented in the Electoral College is the state of immigration. The rest of us don't want to live in California or Oregon.

What? You're losing it as badly as Trump, talking about the wind.

 

[VT4700]

Kamala kicked his ass last night!!!!!! That was like looking forward to a football game and then your team wins 40-0!!!!!!!!

 

[Gallipoli]

Kamala kicked his ass last night!!!!!! That was like looking forward to a football game and then your team wins 40-0!!!!!!!!

And it wasn't that close. Trump is unelectable. This November will be his last participation in politics.

 

[Wood Hall]

And it wasn't that close. Trump is unelectable. This November will be his last participation in politics.

I truly hope you are right. We have many problems in this country. Trump and his lackeys can't solve any of them.

 

[Gallipoli]

I truly hope you are right. We have many problems in this country. Trump and his lackeys can't solve any of them.

I truly hope that I am wrong. The last thing we need is an open borders, neo-marxist in the whitehouse.

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

I truly hope that I am wrong. The last thing we need is an open borders, neo-marxist in the whitehouse.

To date, over 200 relatively high profile Republicans are publicy supporting Harris. Many of them worked in the George H. W. and George W. Bush administrations, and I assume many more Republicans (George W) support Harris but won't make it public. I don't think they are worried about a "neo-marxist" being elected, they are worried about a fascist being elected who has already tried to overthrow a valid election.

You are supposedly a big supporter of Ukraine, Trump at the debate wouldn't even say that he hoped Ukraine would win the war, and his VP nominee has said he could care less about Ukraine. Your vote for Trump is throwing Ukraine under the bus, and you have the gall to criticize Biden for not doing enough to help Ukraine.

 

[SpiderRick]

Whoa, 200 Republicans? Man, that will turn the election...
I really don't care who wins the election. I just want the borders controlled, energy independence, and not have the country run by "special interests groups". That's all. I could give a rats rear end about abortion. The economy will work it's way out...the pendulum always swings back.
Now where's my scotch?

 

[Gallipoli]

You are supposedly a big supporter of Ukraine, Trump at the debate wouldn't even say that he hoped Ukraine would win the war, and his VP nominee has said he could care less about Ukraine. Your vote for Trump is throwing Ukraine under the bus, and you have the gall to criticize Biden for not doing enough to help Ukraine.

Like millions of Americans, at this moment in time, I am uncertain about either candidate's position on foreign policy. I am certain about Trump's economic policies and immigration policies. Aside from Harris' positions about a few tax credits (which are inflationary), I am uncertain about her positions. I am certain that her (and Biden's) policies directly resulted in spikes in inflation, as the government poured trillions of dollars on an economy struggling with supply chain limitations.

Her policies increased interest rates and increased costs for most everyday items. Since this country abhors deflation, these costs will never come down.

Her policies increased the numbers of illegal immigrants by more than 10 million, which increased the demand for low income housing. Her solution is to spend more money.

Her policies increased crime throughout the country and opened the borders to a steady stream of fentanyl.

She is likely beholden to special interests, including the environmental lobby. This lobby, which is funded by Russia and China, controls the left's position on fossil fuels. It seeks to force this country into abandoning oil, gas and coal.

The Biden Administration has seeked to ban fracking. It seeks to force this country into a carbon neutral footprint by 2035 and to ban two-thirds of gas-power vehicles by 2032.

I am certain that Trump is a law and order candidate. She raised money to bail out rioters in 2020 and advocated defunding the police.

She has stated that she wants Americans to pay reparations to blacks for slavery.

To the extent that she has addressed these issues, she has recently changed her position.

She is a far left of center neo-marxist from San Francisco. She has done and said nothing that would make anyone change their minds about her.

I am open to a resonable debate. If this is too much for you, we can take them one at a time.

 

[Gallipoli]

Didn't any of you take a macro economics class at UR?

 

[Gallipoli]

Didn't any of you take a macro economics class at UR?

Besides me. Anyone? Still waiting.

 

[urfan1]

You certainly have all of the Fox Murdoch interpretations/talking point down.

 

[Gallipoli]

You certainly have all of the Fox Murdoch interpretations/talking point down.

With which of the above points do you disagree?

 

[Gallipoli]

Let's take them one at a time... Harris' and Biden's policies caused inflationary pressures on the economy.

The act of pumping in trillions of additional funds between 2021 and the end of 2022 was inflationary. This is especially true given that the economy had too much money chasing too few goods. There are substantial supply chain disruptions, because of COVID, which exacerbated the situation. This was worsened because of Biden's restrictions on oil production, which led to price spikes in fuel costs. This micro economic action rippled through the economy, which affected almost all of the prices of domestically produced commodities. This came on the heels of the stimulation effect of historically low interest rates, which ranged at 0 to 1%. As a result, inflation spiked to more than 9% in 2022.

How is this analysis wrong?

 

[KE Spider]

The Biden record is so abysmal it is beyond reasonable defense. As President Obama said of his wingman for 8 years, "Don't underestimate Joe's ability to F up anything." Why do you think he backed Hillary as his successor rather than Joe in 2016?

Inflation - Let's dump a ton of borrowed money on an already overheated economy resulting in the worst inflation in 40 years. Braindead policy.

Border - Let's allow 10 million largely unvetted illegal aliens to just walk across the border. 33 trillion in debt, most illegals are on government assistance, further stressing our resources and schools and stealing jobs from our citizens at the lower rung. Won't even mention the crime. Braindead policy.

Foreign policy - Disgraceful, humiliating Afghanistan withdrawal, screaming weakness to the World, setting the table for Russian invasion of Ukraine, Hamas attack on Israel, and belligerent Chinese actions in the Far East. Braindead policy.

Cannot vote for Trump, but how any reasonable person could vote for Harris given the Administration's record baffles me. Hatred I assume. She isn't any smarter than Biden and that is a very low bar.

You really want more of this dysfunction???

Vote down ticket, but don't vote for either flawed Prez candidate.

 

[Spiderwiz]

Guide to the 2024 Presidential Candidates’ Policy Proposals — Penn Wharton Budget Model

In preparation for the 2024 presidential election, Penn Wharton Budget Model (PWBM) has compiled a brief guide to our analyses of the candidates’ policy proposals. These analyses project the policy proposals’ fiscal, distributional, and economic effects. These analyses only include proposals that ar

budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu

Neither one has a pristine policy plan but, then again, most don't.

 

[KE Spider]

This is cute, but how anyone knows the effects of Harris's proposals baffles me yet again Following Biden in 2020 she is running a stealth campaign devoid of policy specifics. Likely bc they know most voters don't agree with their vision unless they hide it.

 

[Spiderwiz]

and the Trump tariffs are a godsend?

I personally will go with a reasoned analysis that views the pitfalls of both.

 

[KE Spider]

Biden did not reverse Trump's tariffs which we were assured would result in a catastrophic trade war. What does that say?

Can't view pitfalls without policy proposals. Looking for Madam Vice President here. Where are you?

 

[urfan1]

Like Trump's "concepts of a plan" to replace The Affordable Care Act. He's only had 9 years to flesh out his plan. She's had roughly 9 weeks as the lead person.

 

[Spiderwiz]

Enacting tariffs causes tit for tat. Tariffs cause tariffs. Foreign countries react by enacting tariffs. US companies relying upon imported raw materials have to raise prices. Unaffected companies now have price protection and rarely refrain from adding "free money" to profits. This affects the global competitiveness of US companies. Once enacted, the affected countries match or raise tariffs. This hurts our exporters (think, say, farmers exporting soy beans to China). To cut tariffs as Biden could have done invites a imbalanced situation. Who blinks first (especially if its China) when reversing them? Adding more tariffs as Trump proposes exacerbates and heightens the situation.

 

[KE Spider]

Following Biden in 2020 she is running a stealth campaign devoid of policy specifics. Likely bc they know most voters don't agree with their vision unless they hide it.

I stand here. Facts are here. Disagree, lets hear it. Please no hate infused ridiculous comments.

 

[Spiderwiz]

Ok, tariffs go to the side.

Cats and dogs differ re facts, especially in Springfield, as do national polls. The Electoral College that innately favors Red over Blue and rural over urban offsets those polls.

I don’t agree with Harris on all issues. I simply agree with hers more than Trump’s if only because any relative neutral analysis of the two says she would add less to the debt vs Trump (I am an avowed deficit hawk so that does not please me at all). Additionally, she is more likely to have a governor over her politics, given the seats up for election. The Senate will presumably skew to Republican and that body alone will “hell no” many proposals. Additionally, the House presumably will stay Republican given the crassly gerrymandered congressional districts. Adding to the mix litigious state attorney generals who will have a favorable ear at the Supreme Court, Harris will have difficulty enacting a progressive plan. Shoot, you can probably rule out a centrist one as well just on obstructionist principles alone. Comparing that to a Republican Congress (assuming control of both houses) that cowers to Trump and the Trump controlled base, I am in on Harris as that is the closest to a centrist government attainable.

 

[SpiderRick]

Candidates say what people want to hear. Words on both sides are empty. Actions speak louder than words. At least we know what Trump has done. I like the fact that we were (mostly) energy independent during his tenure. I like the fact that he at least attempted to control the border (congress shot most of it down). I liked the fact that he wanted to project a strong national defense. Those things along with curbing inflation, are all that concern me.
Harris could be all of these things and more, but we don't know.

So I'm going with the devil we know over the devil we don't know.

 

[urfan1]

When evaluating candidates I first look for 3 things before I look to the issues, 1) do they show integrity (Trump NO), 2) character, (Trump fails), and 3) will they honor their oath to support all laws and the constitution, (Trump NO).

 

[KE Spider]

Policy. Policy. Policy.

If they help most citizens I'm for it regardless of party. If it doesn't, I'm against it regardless of party.

Government exists to bring order, security, and prosperity to its citizens. Simple propositions, unfortunately bastardized in our lifetime.

 

[Gallipoli]

When evaluating candidates I first look for 3 things before I look to the issues, 1) do they show integrity (Trump NO), 2) character, (Trump fails), and 3) will they honor their oath to support all laws and the constitution, (Trump NO).

And you voted for both Clintons and Biden?

 

[Wood Hall]

Candidates say what people want to hear. Words on both sides are empty. Actions speak louder than words. At least we know what Trump has done. I like the fact that we were (mostly) energy independent during his tenure. I like the fact that he at least attempted to control the border (congress shot most of it down). I liked the fact that he wanted to project a strong national defense. Those things along with curbing inflation, are all that concern me.
Harris could be all of these things and more, but we don't know.

So I'm going with the devil we know over the devil we don't know.

When did we become less energy independent in the past four years? When our production hit an all-time high?

A guy who calls dead soldiers "losers and suckers" is not a friend of the military. In fact, almost all of his former military commanders believe he's a complete and total moron.

Yes, we do know what Trump has done. As I recall, "the devil we know" attempted to overthrow the government.

 

[Gallipoli]

In fact, almost all of his former military commanders believe he's a complete and total moron.

He is much better than Harris, who was responsible for the Afganistan retreat.

 

[Long Time Spider Fan]

Whoa, 200 Republicans? Man, that will turn the election...
I really don't care who wins the election. I just want the borders controlled, energy independence, and not have the country run by "special interests groups". That's all. I could give a rats rear end about abortion. The economy will work it's way out...the pendulum always swings back.
Now where's my scotch?

These 200 former staunch Republicans who worked in prior Republican administrations are not willing to do something that you apparently are: Vote for a man who tried to overthrow the government by claiming the election was fraudulent without any real evidence, and continues to lie about the election even as he is trying to become President again. I never said 200 votes would turn the election as you imply, but have another scotch!