2022-2023 Season outlook

[LongTimeSpiderFan]

I don't think anyone is questioning that we changed to man to man because the match up zone was not working. But, the match up zone keeps your guards matching up on the perimeter, so they were not getting posted up. They just weren't. There would be no reason for them to leave the perimeter. Our forwards had the issues underneath, not our guards. And, as good as TJ and Grant were offensively, they were not great in the match up zone.

"But, the match up zone keeps your guards matching up on the perimeter, so they were not getting posted up. They just weren't."
This is incorrect. In theory you are correct but in practice this is not always the case. I believe in the NIT at Robin's center after Richmond had a monster first half, Larranaga had his guards isolate and overwhelm our guards. Miami beat the snot out of us the 2nd half and won the game. If you can coach, and you have the personnel it's not that hard and it happened alot.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

Do you know what a match up zone is? Why would we have our guards down low in a match up zone? Taller players didn't post up our smaller guards then because our smaller guards were up top playing the perimeter.

And, no one is saying jack up deep 3s instead of posting up a taller guard. What I am saying is a lot more times than not, it will be better to run our offense than worrying about posting a guard up. My deep 3 comment was in relation to Syracuse's defense, and I definitely don't see us posting our guards up against their length.

You clearly didn't watch, because Kevin Anderson and then Kendall Anthony and then Jacob Gilyard often got stuck down low on a big guy. It happened a LOT. Big guy like Grant guarding the ball at the perimeter, and mouse in the house down low. We stopped playing the matchup zone because we kept getting taken advantage of either through dribble drive or through post-up on mismatches. You can have whatever opinion you want, but this one is fact.

 

[VT4700]

This is just not accurate. Miami did not post our guards up. If they did, find some highlights and show me because I certainly don't remember seeing that. You won't find them because it didn't happen. What they did was dominate the offensive glass. Just go back and look at the play by play and you will see how they scored in the 2nd half:

6'1 guard made a layup.
3 pointer.
2 FT after a foul on Deion Taylor.
2 FT after a foul on ANO.
1 FT right after an offensive rebound.
2 FT right after an offensive rebound.
1 FT after a foul on TJ.
layup by 6'7 forward.
layup and FT after an offensive rebound.
layup by 6'1 guard.

* we were still up 13 with 8 minutes left after all of this.

layup after offensive rebound.
layup after offensive rebound.
2 FT after foul by Terry Allen.
2 FT by 6'1 guard.
2 FT after foul by Trey Davis.
2 FT after offensive rebound and foul by ANO.
3 pointer.
jump shot.
2 FT after we had to foul them late.
2 more FT after we had to foul them late.

So, that is 41 of their 45 half points, none of which were the result of any posting up, and I don't think the other 4 points were scored that way either. My goodness, it wasn't that long ago. Why make stuff up?

 

[VT4700]

You clearly didn't watch, because Kevin Anderson and then Kendall Anthony and then Jacob Gilyard often got stuck down low on a big guy. It happened a LOT. Big guy like Grant guarding the ball at the perimeter, and mouse in the house down low. We stopped playing the matchup zone because we kept getting taken advantage of either through dribble drive or through post-up on mismatches. You can have whatever opinion you want, but this one is fact.

Yeah, okay, just like Miami kept posting our guards up is fact, too, right? But, I think we are getting sidetracked here. We were talking about big guards posting smaller guards up, not mismatches, but I still don't think the 3 guards you mentioned were stuck down low in the match up zone. If they did, that is on them because their job was to match up on the perimeter.

 

[LongTimeSpiderFan]

Yeah, okay, just like Miami kept posting our guards up is fact, too, right?

You need to actually watch something instead of pulling stats.

 

[VT4700]

You need to actually watch something instead of pulling stats.

LOL. I have to pull stats because so many people just flat out lie on here. I know what I saw. The Miami game was not that long ago. I know how they beat us. So, instead of just going back and forth, I looked it up and backed up my view with stats. You know, actual facts.

 

[LongTimeSpiderFan]

LOL. I have to pull stats because so many people just flat out lie on here. I know what I saw. The Miami game was not that long ago. I know how they beat us. So, instead of just going back and forth, I looked it up and backed up my view with stats. You know, actual facts.

The end result does not give the how or why of how something happened.
Stick with stats because a real game of basketball seems beyond your grasp my friend.
As others have said and I must now agree, you argue just to argue. I will look at your posts for statistics but your actual opinion is tainted.

 

[VT4700]

The end result does not give the how or why of how something happened.
Stick with stats because a real game of basketball seems beyond your grasp my friend.
As others have said and I must now agree, you argue just to argue. I will look at your posts for statistics but your actual opinion is tainted.

LOL, when proven wrong, post something like this. So, the real game of basketball is beyond my grasp? Good one. I know what I saw. It's pretty easy these days to find highlights. If they were there, you would share them.

And, funny that when I make a point and people respond and disagree (with lies), that is perfectly fine, but when I respond with facts, I am "arguing just to argue".

 

[fan2011]

I don't think anyone is questioning that we changed to man to man because the match up zone was not working. But, the match up zone keeps your guards matching up on the perimeter, so they were not getting posted up. They just weren't. There would be no reason for them to leave the perimeter. Our forwards had the issues underneath, not our guards. And, as good as TJ and Grant were offensively, they were not great in the match up zone.

I feel like you didn't actually watch games during the matchup zone era.

 

[POMSpidur]

You need to actually watch something instead of pulling stats.

I asked for highlights and got none. Since it happened A LOT. You guys should easily be able to pull up a decent amount of clips. Simple

 

[GKiller]

I’m eager to see who actually rewatches the 2nd half of the Miami game. If they do they also would enjoy being waterboarded.

 

[LongTimeSpiderFan]

LOL, when proven wrong, post something like this. Good one. I know what I saw.

The following is an actual true story:
About 15 years ago I took my two young boys and I arrived at a game way early - probably less than 100 people in the entire arena. Attendance was generally sparse and with general admission tickets we simply sat randomly halfway up a middle section...there was a seat open between me and the boys. A guy comes into the arena studying his ticket for his seat location and sits in that one empty seat between me and my boys - seriously. What are the odds!
I still see that guy at the games and think of that day every time I see him.
I think you're that guy.

 

[POMSpidur]

He just showed you 41 of their points that didn’t result in a post up on our smaller guards, yet that’s what you guys remember? So if it happens twice, I’m sure it’s a huge deal on here. When in reality it’s 2 possessions out of 70.

 

[LongTimeSpiderFan]

I asked for highlights and got none. Since it happened A LOT. You guys should easily be able to pull up a decent amount of clips. Simple

Highlights show end results, not game trends or how that highlight came to be. Stop... Just stop.

 

[VT4700]

I asked for highlights and got none. Since it happened A LOT. You guys should easily be able to pull up a decent amount of clips. Simple

Agree, but it is more fun for them to pile on me. That way they can get likes and have others agree with them. Miami pressed and sped up the game, attacked on offense and crashed the boards. Anyone not on this board would remember that is how they came back. It certainly wasn't because they posted up our guards. Unreal.

 

[POMSpidur]

Highlights show end results, not game trends or how that highlight came to be. Stop... Just stop.

Then put the game clip in here. Sorry I assumed you don’t have it though. That’s why I asked for highlights, but I’m guessing you have neither. I wonder why…

 

[VT4700]

Highlights show end results, not game trends or how that highlight came to be. Stop... Just stop.

So, what would the "trend" be? Miami sped things up in the 2nd half. They never even bothered with slowing the game down in a half court set and posting our guards up. But, please share how you think the 2nd half went. Help me out and let's hear it.

 

[POMSpidur]

Miami Rallies To Reach 1st NIT Semifinal In School History

Sheldon McClellan gave Miami its first lead of the game with just over a minute left and the Hurricanes rallied from 18 points down to beat Richmond 63-61 on Tuesday to advance to the NIT semifinals.

www.cbsnews.com

You guys can read this and tell me what you took away from it. I don’t see much mentioning of the post ups and taking advantage of match ups. But I’m not the best reader

 

[VT4700]

I feel like you didn't actually watch games during the matchup zone era

Well, I feel like A LOT of people on here just don't know the game of basketball, especially what a match up zone is and how it is played.

 

[VT4700]

Miami Rallies To Reach 1st NIT Semifinal In School History

Sheldon McClellan gave Miami its first lead of the game with just over a minute left and the Hurricanes rallied from 18 points down to beat Richmond 63-61 on Tuesday to advance to the NIT semifinals.

www.cbsnews.com

You guys can read this and tell me what you took away from it. I don’t see much mentioning of the post ups and taking advantage of match ups. But I’m not the best reader

How about that. So, they attacked on offense and dominated the offensive boards? Who said that on here? Must have been someone who just wanted to argue.

 

[VT4700]

More comments from Larranaga;

"Joe Thomas ( 6'7 forward) came in with lots of energy, hustled all over the place and finished some shots around the rim. That ignited our team. Joe Thomas was the difference. That combination of his effort, hustle, and defense in the press made the comeback possible."

Cmon, Jim. What about posting our guards up? How could you not say that? Wasn't that the difference? Did you even watch the game, Coach? Some guys on our message board say it was all about posting our guards up, so it must be true. Sorry, Jim, but I think you must be wrong here. Maybe you forgot what actually happened a few minutes after the game was over when you spoke with the media?

 

[LongTimeSpiderFan]

How about that. So, they attacked on offense and dominated the offensive boards? Who said that on here? Must have been someone who just wanted to argue.

Player A backs his defender down necessitating a double team. Player A kicks the ball out to a wide open teammate who knocks the shot down.
You would say (and have said) that that play was successful because the guy hit the open shot while I would say that play was successful because Player A required a double team. Are you right? Yes. The highlight, stats and story reads like the team shot really well which, of course, is true. But it it tells very little of why that happened. So, pull up your stats, show more highlights and keep focusing on that wide open shot... I'll watch the basketball game.

 

[VT4700]

This is just not accurate. Miami did not post our guards up. If they did, find some highlights and show me because I certainly don't remember seeing that. You won't find them because it didn't happen. What they did was dominate the offensive glass. Just go back and look at the play by play and you will see how they scored in the 2nd half:

6'1 guard made a layup.
3 pointer.
2 FT after a foul on Deion Taylor.
2 FT after a foul on ANO.
1 FT right after an offensive rebound.
2 FT right after an offensive rebound.
1 FT after a foul on TJ.
layup by 6'7 forward.
layup and FT after an offensive rebound.
layup by 6'1 guard.

* we were still up 13 with 8 minutes left after all of this.

layup after offensive rebound.
layup after offensive rebound.
2 FT after foul by Terry Allen.
2 FT by 6'1 guard.
2 FT after foul by Trey Davis.
2 FT after offensive rebound and foul by ANO.
3 pointer.
jump shot.
2 FT after we had to foul them late.
2 more FT after we had to foul them late.

So, that is 41 of their 45 half points, none of which were the result of any posting up, and I don't think the other 4 points were scored that way either. My goodness, it wasn't that long ago. Why make stuff up?

My mistake. They made 6 FTs late when we had to foul, not 4, so that is 43 of their 45 2nd half points without posting anyone up, and i doubt the other 2 were from posting up either.

 

[VT4700]

Player A backs his defender down necessitating a double team. Player A kicks the ball out to a wide open teammate who knocks the shot down.
You would say (and have said) that that play was successful because the guy hit the open shot while I would say that play was successful because Player A required a double team. Are you right? Yes. The highlight, stats and story reads like the team shot really well which, of course, is true. But it it tells very little of why that happened. So, pull up your stats, show more highlights and keep focusing on that wide open shot... I'll watch the basketball game.

That is fine and all, but that is not what happened in the Miami game. LOL. So, you respond to a post that shows Miami attacked on offense and dominated the glass with this comment????? Miami was 19-61 overall and 2-16 from 3. So, I will ask again. How did Miami score? What was this "game trend" you keep talking about that does not show up on the stat sheet, or I guess highlights either?

 

[urmite]

The following is an actual true story:
About 15 years ago I took my two young boys and I arrived at a game way early - probably less than 100 people in the entire arena. Attendance was generally sparse and with general admission tickets we simply sat randomly halfway up a middle section...there was a seat open between me and the boys. A guy comes into the arena studying his ticket for his seat location and sits in that one empty seat between me and my boys - seriously. What are the odds!
I still see that guy at the games and think of that day every time I see him.
I think you're that guy.

Was his name "You're in my spot" Sheldon?

 

[VT4700]

Or, how about this. How many times did a "Miami guy back his defender down necessitating a double team"? Those are your words here. So, how many?

 

[POMSpidur]

Player A backs his defender down necessitating a double team. Player A kicks the ball out to a wide open teammate who knocks the shot down.
You would say (and have said) that that play was successful because the guy hit the open shot while I would say that play was successful because Player A required a double team. Are you right? Yes. The highlight, stats and story reads like the team shot really well which, of course, is true. But it it tells very little of why that happened. So, pull up your stats, show more highlights and keep focusing on that wide open shot... I'll watch the basketball game.

You just read the article right? It says nothing about matchups or mismatches or drawing double teams. Because it didn’t happen as often as you guys think.

 

[LongTimeSpiderFan]

Was his name "You're in my spot" Sheldon?

He definitely has some Sheldon-like qualities. He sits about 5 or 6 rows in front of me now and havent yet sat in his seat but I might this year.

 

[LongTimeSpiderFan]

You just read the article right? It says nothing about matchups or mismatches or drawing double teams. Because it didn’t happen as often as you guys think.

Ya. Read the article, saw the stats, watched the highlights, what else? Oh ya, watched the game.

 

[POMSpidur]

Ya. Read the article, saw the stats, watched the highlights, what else? Oh ya, watched the game.

So your opinion is more accurate then the coaches statements and the reasons that they felt the game ended up how it did? You guys kill me man. Your eyes are better than both coaches and the people who get paid to talk about what happened. Can’t listen to the coaches, can’t look at the stats, we need to listen to what LongTimeSpiderFan thinks he saw when he watched. Comical man truly comical

 

[VT4700]

Ya. Read the article, saw the stats, watched the highlights, what else? Oh ya, watched the game.

So, then you should be able to tell me these "game trends" you saw that do not show up on highlights or in stats. I keep asking, but you won't tell. I told you what I saw. Miami sped the game up and attacked the glass. So, what did you see?

 

[VT4700]

Highlights show end results, not game trends or how that highlight came to be. Stop... Just stop.

It really shouldn't be that difficult a question since you insist you watched the game and know what happened. You seem pretty confident with your opinion, so you should be able to tell me these "game trends" you saw that do not show up on highlights or in stats. How did these highlights come to be?

 

[gospidersgo]

Anyone who has watched UR basketball during the Mooney/matchup zone era can remember small guards getting isolated and abused down low. Plenty of us on here fussed about it for years. What the actual frequency of it occuring was - I don't really know. But to deny it happened is absurd.

 

[POMSpidur]

Anyone who has watched UR basketball during the Mooney/matchup zone era can remember small guards getting isolated and abused down low. Plenty of us on here fussed about it for years. What the actual frequency of it occuring was - I don't really know. But to deny it happened is absurd.

Nobody said it’s never happened. I’m sure we’ve gotten a half court shot made on us but that doesn’t mean it’s the reason we lost? People have been claiming that’s why we switched from the match up and that’s not remotely true and it did not happen frequently. Obviously it happened before? But if it happened once every other game, or even once a game, that’s not getting abused. Unless our definitions of abuse are different, which could be true!

 

[VT4700]

Nobody said it’s never happened. I’m sure we’ve gotten a half court shot made on us but that doesn’t mean it’s the reason we lost? People have been claiming that’s why we switched from the match up and that’s not remotely true and it did not happen frequently. Obviously it happened before? But if it happened once every other game, or even once a game, that’s not getting abused. Unless our definitions of abuse are different, which could be true!

Crazy, isn't it? I guess it could be that the definitions of getting abused are different. I don't know how else to explain what I am hearing on here. Just like, I guess people have made up their own definition of what a match up zone is, even though every coach out there would disagree with them on that. I am agreeing with every coach out there, but I am the one who likes to argue, right? I am getting accused of not watching the games during the match up zone era when guys on here don't even know what the match up zone is. Even got accused of just worrying about stats in the Miami game in a post that got liked by SDad (who would have had no reason to watch the Miami game and my guess is he didn't) after proving with those stats that, no, our guards did not get abused down low against Miami. Then, was told to "stick with stats because a real game of basketball seems beyond your grasp my friend. As others have said and I must now agree, you argue just to argue." So, something like this gets posted at me (by someone who was proven wrong), but I am the one accused of always arguing????

So, we have heard and keep hearing that our guards got exposed down low, and even heard our big was out on the perimeter, when everyone (not on here) knows that a match up zone is designed to keep your defensive big men down low and your quick guards on the perimeter. I mean, it's right there in the name: match up zone.

 

[Spiderwiz]

after reading through this thread, I have concluded somewhere out there is a fence post ready and waiting for an argument.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

He just showed you 41 of their points that didn’t result in a post up on our smaller guards, yet that’s what you guys remember? So if it happens twice, I’m sure it’s a huge deal on here. When in reality it’s 2 possessions out of 70.

But that stat which is the point being made, does not reflect what lead up to the score. Cannot a bad matchup lead to a score by someone else due fact we must try to help by double teaming or we are simply out of position to prevent someone else scoring. There is no final stat that reflects what lead to that score unless possibly steal and layup or tip in or rebound and put back. Stats alone ARE NOT a true reflection of what lead to that particular score. Have never seen “bad matchup lead to score” on the stat line.

 

[KE Spider]

Anyone who has watched UR basketball during the Mooney/matchup zone era can remember small guards getting isolated and abused down low. Plenty of us on here fussed about it for years. What the actual frequency of it occuring was - I don't really know. But to deny it happened is absurd.

Thank you for your sane comment. To deny the obvious that occurred all too frequently and cost us many games is baffling. This doesn't even seem like an arguable point.

 

[VT4700]

But that stat which is the point being made, does not reflect what lead up to the score. Cannot a bad matchup lead to a score by someone else due fact we must try to help by double teaming or we are simply out of position to prevent someone else scoring. There is no final stat that reflects what lead to that score unless possibly steal and layup or tip in or rebound and put back. Stats alone ARE NOT a true reflection of what lead to that particular score. Have never seen “bad matchup lead to score” on the stat line.

But, Miami sped things up in the 2nd half, and attacked the glass. There was no throw it in inside, get doubled, and all that going on, and there wasn't setting things up, posting guys up, and looking for mismatches. They played fast, and just attacked and kept attacking.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

But, Miami sped things up in the 2nd half, and attacked the glass. There was no throw it in inside, get doubled, and all that going on, and there wasn't setting things up, posting guys up, and looking for mismatches. They played fast, and just attacked and kept attacking.

Who said I was talking about Miami? I was making general reference to what stats tell and don’t tell.