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2022-2023 Season outlook

Who said I was talking about Miami? I was making general reference to what stats tell and don’t tell.
Yep. Teams familiar with us screened us to death and since we switched on everything, it eventually led to bad matchups. It worked in the first NCAA era b/c we were only small at one position and those guys were so good at getting KA out of those bad matchups.
 
Yep. Teams familiar with us screened us to death and since we switched on everything, it eventually led to bad matchups. It worked in the first NCAA era b/c we were only small at one position and those guys were so good at getting KA out of those bad matchups.
It also worked well in 2014 when we had Ced and Kendall, and in 2015, when we had Kendall and ShawnDre. So, my question would be if it were so easy to abuse our small guards in the match up zone, what happened in 2010, 2011, 2014, and 2015? Did all the coaches we played against forget how to coach? We have always had small guards. I think some of you are missing the keys to the success of the match up zone. Works best with solid defense down low. The quick guards guard the perimeter. Looks to me like it worked great when we had Garrett as our big, worked okay at times with ANO and TJ, not as well with TJ as the lone big in 2016 and 2017, and not good at all when we had Grant. In fairness to TJ and Grant, they did not have a lot of help down low those years. With apologies for throwing stats out here, these were our defensive efficiency rankings since 2010:

2010: 35
2011: 54
2012: 179
2013: 154
2014: 52
2015: 52
2016: 193
2017: 132
2018: 234
2019: 287
 
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Who said I was talking about Miami? I was making general reference to what stats tell and don’t tell.
You did!!!! You copied and pasted the post that talked about Miami's 2nd half. I agree stats are not a tell all, but in the Miami game, when discussing whether or not they posted us up, drew double teams and all that, it is obvious they did not. The stats and video show that they didn't, the coaches comments also show they didn't, but people on here say don't look at stats or video, and don't listen to coaches, just listen to them. Sorry, I will go with what I know and what I saw happen.
 
The matchup zone is a notably brittle defense, it requires excellent communication and movement and switching, and it only takes one guy to flub things for it to disintegrate rapidly.

it’s errant to suggest that it failed because we had small guys get posted up, I think there are more egregious reasons. But It’s even more errant to suggest this was a nonexistent or uncommon scenario though. I’ve been a season ticket holder for 20 years and I know what my eyes have seen and it was a pretty regular occurrence that the team ended up in bad mismatches that either directly or more often indirectly led to our opponent scoring.
 
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I apologize for I did come in on Miami discussion but my intention was to point out that stats
do not tell the whole story. I have watched or been at almost all UR games since the 70s. I am not going
to validate my or others opinions by wasting hours pulling video clips much to you and Poms desire. I am still
blessed with a good memory(at least that is the opinion of my peers) and I distinctly remember our smaller
guards being subjugated to post ups after being forced to switch off on a bigger player such as a forward.
At times we would try to help out by leaving a man open and double teaming. May not have been the intention of
having the guards leave the top of the zone, but some teams were very good at putting us into that predicament.
Like some other posters comments, our guards and smaller forwards did get posted down low in mismatches as a direct
result of the match up zone.
 
I hear you T, and the main thing I am disagreeing with is our small guys were posted up talk. I don't deny there were mismatches. We started 6'4 Buck and 6'4 Nick with ShawnDre and Khwan in 2017, and with Jacob and Khwan in 2018, so teams will definitely find mismatches there. That is why I earlier said in fairness to TJ and Grant they didn't have a lot of help down low. But, I don't remember teams backing ShawnDre, Khwan, and Jacob up. They were on the perimeter. That is all I am trying to say. We started talking about backing guys down, and it got turned into all of this.
 
Perhaps, and I suspect to your point there’s a conflation between mismatch and post up.

We definitely have had scenarios as mentioned where mismatches regularly occurred and they were not always on the perimeter. I recall this happening to Kendall Anthony with frequency, and certainly remember some bigs making easy face ups when they had him solo before help could arrive.
 
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But that stat which is the point being made, does not reflect what lead up to the score. Cannot a bad matchup lead to a score by someone else due fact we must try to help by double teaming or we are simply out of position to prevent someone else scoring. There is no final stat that reflects what lead to that score unless possibly steal and layup or tip in or rebound and put back. Stats alone ARE NOT a true reflection of what lead to that particular score. Have never seen “bad matchup lead to score” on the stat line.
I’d agree…. But they had 5 assists as a team… doesn’t seem like much doubling to an open man.
 
I don't think anyone is questioning that we changed to man to man because the match up zone was not working. But, the match up zone keeps your guards matching up on the perimeter, so they were not getting posted up. They just weren't. There would be no reason for them to leave the perimeter. Our forwards had the issues underneath, not our guards. And, as good as TJ and Grant were offensively, they were not great in the match up zone.
no, a regular zone keeps your guards on the perimeter.

I'm amazed you don't remember all the talk for years criticizing Mooney for sticking with the match up. it was effective early. I loved it. it was unique. then teams figured how to force a switch and get a small covering a big. ideally yes, we'd be able to switch back. but too often we weren't able to. it happened plenty. everyone here but two remembers it.
 
Yep, sounds like big guys shooting over little guys.
Whatever you guys want to say.
CM switched out of the zone because it caught our big on the perimeter when teams went 5 out and there was never help on drives. But I’m sure you guys know just like the Miami game.
 
Whatever you guys want to say.
CM switched out of the zone because it caught our big on the perimeter when teams went 5 out and there was never help on drives. But I’m sure you guys know just like the Miami game.
I believe we switched out of it because we were pretty bad at executing it. Not good at the switches and we were significantly undersized at both the pg/sg spots which exacerbated bad matchups.

we actually have better personnel to run it now than we had in the previous five years.
 
no, a regular zone keeps your guards on the perimeter.

I'm amazed you don't remember all the talk for years criticizing Mooney for sticking with the match up. it was effective early. I loved it. it was unique. then teams figured how to force a switch and get a small covering a big. ideally yes, we'd be able to switch back. but too often we weren't able to. it happened plenty. everyone here but two remembers it.
LOL. Seriously? You really don't think the match up zone keeps your guards on the perimeter? OMG. This is unbelievable. Think of the name: match up zone. So, you are playing zone and you match up. So, if I am Jacob or ShawnDre out front, why would I ever be "matched up" with someone down low? Why am I allowing myself to go down that far when that is not my role or territory in the match up zone? I guess I need to post some info since you can't look it up yourself?

Of course I remember everyone getting on Mooney. How could anyone not remember that daily activity? Funny how coaches figured it out in 2012 and 2013, and then they all forgot again in 2014 and 2015.

This is directly from the source: Mooney's match up zone video:
To complete the match-up zone defense, Coach Mooney guides you through three popular transition sets and how to defend their actions. Mooney demonstrates how to switch off of cutters/screens, pass and cut actions, and high pick and roll scoring options. He teaches you how to keep you post players inside and perimeter players on the outside to frustrate your opponents as they try to create mismatches off of screening action within the zone defense.

From Coach's Clipboard: Quote: "A good zone looks like a man-to-man, and a good man-to-man looks like a zone." The match-up zone resembles what we used to call a "switching man-to-man", where defenders switch freely with one another, so that your defensive big men stay down low and your quick guards are on the perimeter.

There are probably 100 more sources that will say this very same thing if you care to look them up: Your guards cover the perimeter and your bigs stay low. This is as obvious as saying a man to man is when you guard your man. Or, you can just keep saying I don't know what I am talking about and all of these sources are wrong.
 
I believe we switched out of it because we were pretty bad at executing it. Not good at the switches and we were significantly undersized at both the pg/sg spots which exacerbated bad matchups.

we actually have better personnel to run it now than we had in the previous five years.
I agree we executed it bad before the change. That was when we had Buck and Nick as our 2nd and 3rd tallest starters. The issue was being undersized there, not at guard. Think of how the 2-3 is set up before matching up. Grant or TJ in the middle and Nick and Buck down low with him? Our guards were small in 2010, 2011, 2014, and 2015 and we did fine with it. I think it's a great defense to run with small, quick guards because you can take advantage of their quickness on the perimeter, but you need the right guys everywhere to really make it work well.
 
At this point who gives a flying piece of camel dung who is correct, but we agree on one thing, the matchup zone was dropped due to personnel makeup. So let's move on please to another freaking subject or a few of you can start a new Spider Rival site and call it Truth and Stats and gain a whole new following.
 
VT, thanks but I know all the talking ponts about the matchup zone. I also know why we stopped using it. if you forget our guards ending up in bad situations againt bigger guys inside, then I can't help you.
Mooney hasn't switched back and he won't. even though it was successful for him for many years. because coaches figured out sets that put us in bad matchups.
 
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There is no reason to switch back because we have been good in the man to man, with a defensive efficiency of 54, 99, and 94 the past 3 years. Also, we are getting transfers now who can play right away, and the match up zone takes longer to get right than man to man. So, I don't see us changing anytime soon.
 
The transfer thing is a great point VT. It seems like it takes guys a while to learn our offense anyway so why make them also learn a complicated defense that may or may not be effective. Keep it simple
 
Is it me - or does his shot seem very slow to get off and he always dips it down to his waist no matter where catches the pass???
it's slow at times in the drill. I assume they're working on form and muscle memory. that's first. then you speed things up.
 
I'm weighing my curiousity against further encouraging this behavior... Hmmm
I’ll never complain again about 4700 fighting each point to the very end if he gives us an honest answer here.
Predictions on other people’s professions:
— SfSpidur: computer scientist with a focus on large data sets
— Eight Legger: high school science teacher
— Spiderman: IT project manager
— Section9RowD: Healthcare consulting
—Urfan1: wealth manager
 
Honest answer about what? The video or the ill advised tweet? Video? I certainly hope all 13 guys on our team, Walz and Quinn included, can make 6 out of 8 standstill, take your time, unguarded 3s from the high school distance 3 point corner while practicing. But, that being said, nothing wrong with SDad showing the video, while looking forward to this year, and all that.

But, the actual tweet? Yikes. Not sure the video matches the tweet. You would have thought the video was an actual 7-8 live game Bigelow performance or a 7-10 live game Roche performance with a trash talking tweet like that. Why talk trash (obviously at me) and then show a video that 99% of college guys can do?
 
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I’ll never complain again about 4700 fighting each point to the very end if he gives us an honest answer here.
Predictions on other people’s professions:
— SfSpidur: computer scientist with a focus on large data sets
— Eight Legger: high school science teacher
— Spiderman: IT project manager
— Section9RowD: Healthcare consulting
—Urfan1: wealth manager
Close - One of the two words correct
 
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I’ll never complain again about 4700 fighting each point to the very end if he gives us an honest answer here.
Predictions on other people’s professions:
— SfSpidur: computer scientist with a focus on large data sets
— Eight Legger: high school science teacher
— Spiderman: IT project manager
— Section9RowD: Healthcare consulting
—Urfan1: wealth manager
Partial credit...pretty close description of my former line of work, though I've been out of it for a while.
 
I’ll never complain again about 4700 fighting each point to the very end if he gives us an honest answer here.
Predictions on other people’s professions:
— SfSpidur: computer scientist with a focus on large data sets
— Eight Legger: high school science teacher
— Spiderman: IT project manager
— Section9RowD: Healthcare consulting
—Urfan1: wealth manager

LI Spiders: professional gambler
 
I’ll never complain again about 4700 fighting each point to the very end if he gives us an honest answer here.
Predictions on other people’s professions:
— SfSpidur: computer scientist with a focus on large data sets
— Eight Legger: high school science teacher
— Spiderman: IT project manager
— Section9RowD: Healthcare consulting
—Urfan1: wealth manager
I'm just a guy on the ground ... looking out for the little guy.
 
Honest answer about what? The video or the ill advised tweet? Video? I certainly hope all 13 guys on our team, Walz and Quinn included, can make 6 out of 8 standstill, take your time, unguarded 3s from the corner while practicing. But, that being said, nothing wrong with SDad showing the video, while looking forward to this year, and all that.

But, the actual tweet? Yikes. Not sure the video matches the tweet. You would have thought the video was an actual 7-8 live game Bigelow performance or a 7-10 live game Roche performance with a trash talking tweet like that. Why talk trash (obviously at me) and then show a video that 99% of college guys can do?

Holy cow. Take it down a notch. I think he's just asking for an answer on what you do for a living.
 
Holy cow. Take it down a notch. I think he's just asking for an answer on what you do for a living.
I didn't realize that. I saw this post about me: "I'm weighing my curiousity against further encouraging this behavior... Hmmm" and assumed it was talking about a possible reply to the tweet by SDad. Speaking of taking it down a notch, thoughts on SDad's tweet?
 
I didn't realize that. I saw this post about me: "I'm weighing my curiousity against further encouraging this behavior... Hmmm" and assumed it was talking about a possible reply to the tweet by SDad. Speaking of taking it down a notch, thoughts on SDad's tweet?
Um - maybe his tweet is a Dad excited about his kid’s workout before he heads back to his junior year at our great school ? Go spiders
 
Um - maybe his tweet is a Dad excited about his kid’s workout before he heads back to his junior year at our great school ? Go spiders
The video? Sure. I already said not a thing wrong with SDad showing the video. But, why the cheap shots from SDAd my way? Things die down on here, everyone gets along, and then something like that shows up. So, I guess if I reply, then I am the one in the wrong here? And, imagine if I would have said what Trap said above? If I agree, I feel I can't even share that, but Sman can talk about how flat Goose's 3s are, and how Grace doesn't have a good percentage all day long. Those guys are fair game, right?
 
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