2022-2023 Season outlook
- Thread starter SpiderDad75
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possible factor...but Wilson took that spot from the get go when both presumably healthy. If there was an injury preseason that affected that competition I'm not privy to it. & If I recall correctly Dji injury came later 2nd half of season. That's when Goose was returning anyway & then Wilson role changed. If he was injured I don't think he would have been playing at all. Dji was getting in almost all the early games but it was just spot/blowout minutes with a few games bigger role. Wilson was at like 25 mpg consistently first half of season.
Nick started first 2 games of season then Wilson started 3rd game. Obviously Mooney liked the visible energy on D that Wilson brought to court. However, Dji also played well in that game and got 15 minutes of game time due to Wilson foul trouble. Many were impressed by Dji’s D and ball handling. However, then he got a bone bruise and missed Drake game. He came back the following game but for spot minutes and probably wasn’t 100%. Same spot minutes for the next game. So it definitely wasn’t an “fair competition”, Dji got hurt and unfortunately for him not the only time last season. In addition to bad luck, Dji is simply a more laid back type player and I think Mooney was looking for an energy guy to fill the void left by Francis. I don’t think Wilson was “better” on D.
Dji played in 12 of the 15 games Wilson started last year. Wilson got 352 minutes in these games, Dji got 107.
Yep, that makes no sense to play Dji so few minutes if he were injured then. Why play him 107 minutes in 12 games if he were injured? Wouldn't it be better to sit him and get him 100% healthy for conference play?
thx...aware nick started first 2 games...but Wilson played 18 & 18 mpg in those 2...Dji played 3 & 6. The role was there for Wilson over Dji from get go w/o injury whether he started or not.
FWIW Wilson has ability if he can find some O he’ll do well at Winthrop imo.
I’m liking the reports on Dji & look fwd to all this defensive potential he’ll be bringing.
Why do we feel the need to make excuses? Wilson beat him out. Seemed like a fair competition to me. Dji played 10+ minutes in 6 of the games Wilson started. If he was healthy enough to play 10+ minutes, he was healthy enough to play more and replace Wilson had he beaten him out. The other 6 games that Wilson started Dji got 6,3,8,2,2 and 4 minutes while Wilson got 22,27,31,28, 31, and 18 minutes. And, like G said, the first 2 games of the season when Nick was starting, Wilson got 18 and 18 minutes while Dji got 3 and 6. But, all this being said, last year is last year, and this doesn't mean Dji can't improve dramatically, and maybe beat someone out and and get more time. I am looking forward to seeing what he brings this year.
And how does that disprove the point? If he was hampered by injury, I’d expect the healthy player to get more time.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
your constant infatuation with dogging Dji has to be one of the most bizarre things I have ever seen on these boards
I am not making excuses. I am stating my opinion based on facts. Dji was hurt after the 3rd game of the year. In my opinion Wilson started/got more time not because he was better, but because of his attitude (energy). I saw good play by Dji and so did others on the board. He just couldn’t stay on the court. There is no doubt to me that Dji is a better offensive player than Wilson and he is at least as good a defender. In addition, he doesn’t get into foul trouble like Wilson whose energy also lead to fouls.
Looking forward to the season when the speculation ends. I hope Dji can stay healthy this year.
Nowhere close to accurate. And, pretty much the opposite. It's some on here who seem to have an infatuation with Dji, unlike any player we have ever had here. No one who has played so little has ever gotten the love and attention Dji has gotten on here. And, protection. We see comments and even criticism about other players, and all is fine with that, but once the slightest negative, or sometimes just unsure or not overboard positive, thing is said about Dji, all heck breaks loose.
See post 691, which started the debating about this. SDad mentioned Dji wasnt competing with Wilson because he said Wilson was backing up Jacob. So, I cant disagree with that and post facts to back up why? Then, posts 760 and 764. Why isn't it okay for me to respond to those without being accused of dogging anyone? G made his comment about Wilson beating out Dji. If that would have been accepted, and SDad wouldn't have responded like he did, nothing else would need to be said. But, the above posts disagreed with G, I agreed with G, and the the result is the back and forth debating.
This doesn't mean anyone is getting dogged and goes back to what I keep saying. If Dji's Dad weren't on here, nothing said about the Wilson/Dji debate would bother anyone. But, I guess because SDad is on here, I can't respond to a post like his #691 post?
Compare this to a couple recent guys, Sal and Wilson. We had posters on here say they had potential and wanted to see them more, and we had posters on here say they should never get any minutes. It was simple, normal debating about them, and no one got accused of dogging anyone. We should be able to do the same with a player like Dji.
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Wilson got 18 minutes off the bench in each of the games 1 and 2, while Dji got 3 and 6. I hope I can say that without being accused of dogging anyone. Also, what makes you say there is no doubt Dji is better offensively than Wilson? No doubt? How would you know in Dji's limited minutes and 46 career points, 5 career assists, and 0 career 3s? I think that is a fair question to ask you without being accused of dogging anyone. I think SDad has said more than once, it's not about shooting and scoring with Dji, but more about defense. And, I very much hope Dji can stay healthy and look forward to seeing what he can do.
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You summarized nicely my thoughts on why Wilson got the starting job, the visible energy he exhibited on defense. Last year's starting line up was great in many capacities, but I don't think anyone would use the word intense to describe their method of play (Tyler plays really intense, but not a great defender). Mooney knew this and knew he needed a player who brought some intensity to the court. Wilson did that.
Dji is a much more cerebral player. I also forgot Dji early injury status that probably played a role in this.
So did Wilson beat Dji out last year for the starting spot, I think the technical answer is yes. I think Dji's style of play and obviously his injury status impacted Wilson's winning that spot though. And further, I think the fact the Dji is still with us and Wilson is not is indicative of what the pecking order would have been like this year, had Wilson not decided to transfer.
whether by injury or not, Mooney did go with Wilson and stuck to his guns. I really think Mooney believed Wilson would succeed and be an important player for us. he was incredibly patient with him, which flies in the face of his reputation on this board for the quick hook and no hand shake.
but not only did Wilson not run with the opportunity, he regressed. still, by not going after a PG in the portal, Mooney clearly believes he has PGs. let's assume he believes strongly in Nelson. he also either trusts Dji a lot there or knows Goose can do it. or both.
but not only did Wilson not run with the opportunity, he regressed. still, by not going after a PG in the portal, Mooney clearly believes he has PGs. let's assume he believes strongly in Nelson. he also either trusts Dji a lot there or knows Goose can do it. or both.
Dji played 19 minutes against Mississippi State last year and played really well. Was he injured then? Or was it a reoccurring on and off deal? Wilson still played 22 minutes in that game. Wilson might have just been better for 2022 UR AND Dji could be better for 2023 UR, but let’s not pretend like Wilson didn’t beat ALL the others out.
For the record I’ve stated that Dji is one of the best defenders and his game isn’t predicated on the 3…not that he can’t score, he can score. To me, yes he’s better offensively than Zay but that’s neither here nor there. He’s an old school playmaker, who can score at all 3 levels. If you or others would have followed him during his HS recruiting/career you would know. Not your fault I’m just saying. Hopefully he can dig his way off your bench to scrape together a few minutes a game this season 😉😀
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This is fair and can’t argue against that.
I would also say this is pretty spot on. “Dji is a cerebral player” yep and can’t really be sped up that almost seems like he’s not intense but you really have to see him play a game, like a game w/major min to get a sense of his style.
My mistake. Didn't mean to put words in your mouth with the scoring comment. I know he wouldn't be here if he couldn't score. You are right, I did not follow Dji in high school, and just don't have a lot to go on from his first 2 years here. I think back to Sal and Grace's first two years. Sal averaged 2.3 and 1.4 PPG, and Grace averaged 1.2 and 0.9, but they played in 60 and 56 games. So, I feel like we at least had a better idea of what to expect with them. It looked like by the middle of year 2, Matt had beaten Sal out and was getting more minutes, and I liked what I saw in Matt. He was playing in every game and it was easier to make a judgement on him. With Dji, it is harder for me because he has played in just 191 minutes in 25 games his first 2 years, and not 383 and 461 minutes in 56 and 60 games like Sal and Matt. In years 3 and 4, Grace separated himself from Sal and became a key player for us, and I realize the chance is there for Dji to have a similar path here. I know it probably sounds like I am criticizing Dji, and I don't mean that. It is just more of an unknown for me at this point.
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First, I am not the one accusing you of dogging anyone. If you read my posts, I try to be as constructive as possible when pointing out a player deficiency in my eyes and some people don’t try to do that. I do agree that if SpiderDad was not on the board that some comments may be different - but not mine. I believe I have reserved my negativity for the coaching staff who get paid significant amounts of money to do what many think is a great job. They took a well paying public facing job, so they should expect it.
Second, I suppose I should add “no doubt in my mind” to my statement. I have seen both players play and my assessment is that Dji is a better offensive player. I didn’t say he was a 3 pt sniper and I really don’t think the fact he doesn’t have a made 3 pointer in his limited minutes matters at all. I guess I shouldn’t have even mentioned it, but the fact is I think the better player is still on the team.
Last, I am not disputing that Mooney played Wilson more than Dji last year. What I did was explain that in my opinion it had NOTHING to do with skill. It had everything to do with energy. 97 elaborated on the point I made, so at least one person on the Forum knows what I was talking about and agrees. To use 97 words “ Last year's starting line up was great in many capacities, but I don't think anyone would use the word intense to describe their method of play…….Mooney knew this and knew he needed a player who brought some intensity to the court.” Well stated. Thanks for the assist 97.
maybe it was energy. still a bit of a strange decision by Mooney to me.
with Gilly on the floor and scorers all over the place, Wilson did make some sense as a good defender. but if Dji's as good defensively ... and substantially longer then Wilson, I think playing Dji at the 2 until Goose came back would have made more sense. Wilson is small to play with Gilly.
unless the injury played a part, or unless Mooney thought Wilson was ahead.
with Gilly on the floor and scorers all over the place, Wilson did make some sense as a good defender. but if Dji's as good defensively ... and substantially longer then Wilson, I think playing Dji at the 2 until Goose came back would have made more sense. Wilson is small to play with Gilly.
unless the injury played a part, or unless Mooney thought Wilson was ahead.
And much like a more cerebral players can't be sped up, an uber intense player like Wilson could not dial it down, which ultimately hurt Wilson as for what he brought on defense, his intensity on the offensive end, let him into a lot of bad situations for him and the team.
I liked Wilson a lot at the beginning of last year as did a lot of people, but his style of play, coupled with underdeveloped offensive skill set were his undoing. If Wilson could have developed a really good jumper or even some really good moves to the hoop, he could have been great for us. I'm sure that is what Mooney hoped would happen. But it didn't and Mooney has to pull the plug.
This is very true. It’d be naive to say it that 3’s are mandatory in order to play. We saw Cayo be able to have an 1000 point career and be a key part of the team for the past 4 years, even if some people would get frustrated with it, he was a part of the puzzle. Obviously a difference with Dji being a guard. He finds other ways to score and is one of the best cutters I have seen. The only dilemma is that when there is a 50-50 toss up between 2 players playing, Richmond has always went with the shooter because of how the offense is ran. While some people may not agree with it, the offensive numbers are top in the a10 when Mooney has been here. I guess the question is do we think the philosophy will change and the team becomes more defensive centric compared to offensive? My guess would be no based off of last years. Look at the 2019-2020 season, we had the same team as 2020-2021 essentially yet we were the best defensive team in a10 the year covid shut everything down. Sometimes defense can come down to if the team mesh’s as a unit rather than individual defenders.
Not specific to any player but in UR's offense, shooting the 3 is extremely helpful. Super obvious statement but having 5 guys on the court who can take/make 3s is almost a must for me. Cayo had his specific strengths but the number of times we had great ball rotation and it ended up in the hands of a wide open Cayo at the 3 point line with 10 seconds on the shot clock was...a lot. And then the offense would have to reset, or Cayo would have to do his 9 dribble back down of his man to get within 5 feet of the hoop. It just derailed the flow of the offense to have a complete non-shooter on the court. I'm hopeful everyone on this year's roster is at least a threat to shoot it from 3 if they get that wide open Cayo look.
Cayo, Golden, Grace, Goose and Wilson all played a lot last year without shooting well from 3. Mooney plays his best players, not just his best shooters.
somehow we won a tournament game last year despite being statistically poor from 3 and with a reputation here for not rebounding and playing poor defense. maybe it just takes one guy getting hot at the right time.
somehow we won a tournament game last year despite being statistically poor from 3 and with a reputation here for not rebounding and playing poor defense. maybe it just takes one guy getting hot at the right time.
Yes, exactly why UR won a tournament game last year, AND, exactly why I think Roche will be in the lineup A LOT.
Well in our A-10 tourney run, we suddenly saw a much better defense than we did the rest of the year. To me, I place most of the credit for this on Gilly. Dude put the team on his back during that run. Rest of the team, responded to Gilly.
Agreed. 2023 will have to be just as good defensively as they were in the A10 tournament run AND shoot better from to be top 5 in A10
It helps if we have a player step up and be the unquestioned leader who can put the other team on his back when needed. This was always Kevin Anderson unique superpower in my opinion, all time great player, who made all time great plays at the most critical times and could put the team on their backs. It is the downfall of many of our great players and to me is the dividing line between really good players and great players. Gilly put himself in that category this March. This is why he goes in the rafters in my opinion and a player like Grant will be a tougher call.
Agree. If not, we will probably see a repeat of the regular season last year. But, I don't like saying top 5. 5th will usually accomplish nothing since it would be hard to get an at large from there, and you don't get the double bye. So, my goal would always be top 4, not 5.
spiderman, I feel like you responded to a different point of your own making. Goose, Grace, Grant and Wilson were all at least a threat to shoot from 3 last year, each averaged at least 1 attempt per game. Cayo attempted zero the entire year, yet he would get the ball at the 3 point line late in the shot clock often.
Your other point about winning a tourney game - others have already made the same points I would have made. But ask yourself if UR even gets there if Wilson and Grace had not made huge 3s in the Dayton tourney game? If Cayo had gotten those passes instead, what happens?
My opinion is that each guy in UR offense should be at least a threat to shoot from 3 in those spots and should be making at least the 9 Wilson made last year. Cayo was not a threat to even shoot it and it really hurt the offense at times. Not part of his game (I'm really. not trying to sound negative about Nate - he was huge at times last year.) But I think it should be part of each guy's repertoire on this year's roster, and in the larger context of this discussion, I think it could affect minutes if the offense gets bogged down in spots. UR lost a number of close games last year and a few bad possessions where good ball movement is squandered can be a difference maker.
Your other point about winning a tourney game - others have already made the same points I would have made. But ask yourself if UR even gets there if Wilson and Grace had not made huge 3s in the Dayton tourney game? If Cayo had gotten those passes instead, what happens?
My opinion is that each guy in UR offense should be at least a threat to shoot from 3 in those spots and should be making at least the 9 Wilson made last year. Cayo was not a threat to even shoot it and it really hurt the offense at times. Not part of his game (I'm really. not trying to sound negative about Nate - he was huge at times last year.) But I think it should be part of each guy's repertoire on this year's roster, and in the larger context of this discussion, I think it could affect minutes if the offense gets bogged down in spots. UR lost a number of close games last year and a few bad possessions where good ball movement is squandered can be a difference maker.
97 - my argument for Kevin Anderson also focuses on the same thing. Winning time shot maker like UR has not had since. Guy single-handedly won /iced both OOC games at the end in that preseason tourney vs a couple P5 teams (Miss St? and someone else?) as well as other giant shots too numerous to name (the A10 semis ankle breaking crossover of Jordan Crawford to ice the win vs Xavier is another legendary one.) There was no doubt who was shooting that late shot vs Vandy in the NCAAs and no doubt he was making it (over yet another future NBA guy.)
Gilly was that guy in the A10 tourney last year and again vs Iowa. But he deferred far too much in his career as a whole IMO. Those games made me wish he was more selfish more of the time.
Gilly was that guy in the A10 tourney last year and again vs Iowa. But he deferred far too much in his career as a whole IMO. Those games made me wish he was more selfish more of the time.
this thread gone little sideways...normal...guilty. fwiw many ppl on board liked Wilson last year & at least he went out on high with that huge 3.
if the cerebral defender can stop the guy he’s guarding better than another guy & play good team defense...and he’s better offensively? That’s an easy call. Don’t really get that take. Mooney recruits & prefers the cerebral player for most part anyway. look I have disagreed w Mooney lineup decisions b4. He’s not immune. So maybe it was wrong call idk. Heck I was calling for more time for Goose for years. Mooney only started listening to me in Jan/Feb! But imo Mooney is going to play who HE thinks gives us the best chance to win, no matter the on court personality.
if the cerebral defender can stop the guy he’s guarding better than another guy & play good team defense...and he’s better offensively? That’s an easy call. Don’t really get that take. Mooney recruits & prefers the cerebral player for most part anyway. look I have disagreed w Mooney lineup decisions b4. He’s not immune. So maybe it was wrong call idk. Heck I was calling for more time for Goose for years. Mooney only started listening to me in Jan/Feb! But imo Mooney is going to play who HE thinks gives us the best chance to win, no matter the on court personality.
I like the 3 ball as much as anyone, and think it is incredibly important, but you are being a little unfair to Nate here. Nate is certainly not the only player in college basketball who didn't have the 3 as part of his game. And, you asked what would have happened had Nate gotten the ball against Dayton instead of Wilson and Grace? Well, what about the 2 late possessions against Iowa? What happens if Nate doesn't get the ball then? You say Nate got the ball at the 3 point line late a lot? I could not disagree more. When Nate got the ball late in the clock, it was either down low one on one, or it was like in the Iowa game, when he came to the ball and got the pass about 15-18 feet from the basket, and then did his thing from there.
Would it be good to have all 5 guys shoot the 3? Sure, as long as they can do some other things too. Every team out there would want that, but how many can say they have that? Five 3 point guys with no inside game would not work very well. Look at 2020 for us. Give me guys like Blake, Nick, and Jacob, and I think Nate adds a very valuable piece to that. The result was 24-7 without having all 5 guys shoot the 3.
Would it be good to have all 5 guys shoot the 3? Sure, as long as they can do some other things too. Every team out there would want that, but how many can say they have that? Five 3 point guys with no inside game would not work very well. Look at 2020 for us. Give me guys like Blake, Nick, and Jacob, and I think Nate adds a very valuable piece to that. The result was 24-7 without having all 5 guys shoot the 3.
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You're making a micro-argument for Cayo that is not really relevant to a larger point I'm putting forth about the offense clicking when 5 guys are threats from 3.
My argument is that the UR offense works best when all 5 guys are a threat to shoot the 3. I used Cayo as my example bc of the times the offense had to reset late in the clock and we got bad looks, because he attempted zero and I felt that his lack of ability to be a threat was a reason in many of those instances. The ball movement was great, we found the open man...and then reset the offense with 10 on the clock. I do believe we struggled to find spacing with Grant and Nate at times and ball movement to the open man fizzled if it found Nate outside.
Yes, Cayo made big plays at points during the season, we may not win vs Iowa without him. Not disputing that. I loved when he came up big. And Wilson and Grace had huge 3 pointers in big spots. These things are not mutually exclusive. I bring them up only to dispute sman's take that we had multiple guys who didn't shoot well from 3. My point was 4 of them actually were a threat to at least shoot it and 2 had huge moments from 3.
I just don't think that the offense is best if there is a complete non-shooter from 3 on the court unless that guy has a great slashing game. We move the ball well to find the open guy - I want all 5 to be able to pull from 3.
My argument is that the UR offense works best when all 5 guys are a threat to shoot the 3. I used Cayo as my example bc of the times the offense had to reset late in the clock and we got bad looks, because he attempted zero and I felt that his lack of ability to be a threat was a reason in many of those instances. The ball movement was great, we found the open man...and then reset the offense with 10 on the clock. I do believe we struggled to find spacing with Grant and Nate at times and ball movement to the open man fizzled if it found Nate outside.
Yes, Cayo made big plays at points during the season, we may not win vs Iowa without him. Not disputing that. I loved when he came up big. And Wilson and Grace had huge 3 pointers in big spots. These things are not mutually exclusive. I bring them up only to dispute sman's take that we had multiple guys who didn't shoot well from 3. My point was 4 of them actually were a threat to at least shoot it and 2 had huge moments from 3.
I just don't think that the offense is best if there is a complete non-shooter from 3 on the court unless that guy has a great slashing game. We move the ball well to find the open guy - I want all 5 to be able to pull from 3.
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