I liked Buck as much or more than most but he is replaceable...think Greg Robbins his freshman year... Not great but serviceable given GG, NS and JG
Bryce Schneider - 2017 Signee
- Thread starter SFspidur
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Comparing Buck to Greg Robbins his freshmen year is ludicrous. Robbins had less than one point, assist and rebound per game as a freshmen. Buck was top 15 in rebounds, assists, and effective shooting percentage last year. He was A10 RoY as a freshmen. I am pretty sure you are actually the person who liked Buck the least on this board. Buck is not easily replaced. Not even remotely close to easily replaceable.
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Yes this is a ridiculous comparison. The lengths posters go to try to spin this stuff is a little scary.
Based on what? Blind optimism? We have lost 2/5 of our starting lineup. We couldn’t win last year according to our coach beacause we were young and inexperienced, remember? This year we will be younger and less experienced. Why will we be better? Honest question.
Not a Buck hater at all. I have always said he was a good player and have always said I liked both him and Khwan. I just think he is replaceable, that's all. He is not a PG like Jacob, not a big like Grant, and not a shooter and scorer like Nick. I did not see any part of his game improving and I think we will find a better fit this year. We will find out soon enough.
Ok, I can buy that the other 3 have more definable positions and skills. Who is our 2 guard though? I always seem to remember us having good seasons when we had a well defined and stud 2 guard. Curtis Blair. David Gonzalvez. Kass Weaver. Darien Brothers. Eric English. Who is it this year??
We couldn't win last year because 2/5 of our lineup could not shoot well enough to draw defenses out. We couldn't win last year because 4/5 of our lineup was 6'4 or shorter. We will not be younger and less experienced this year, no matter what lineup we play because last year we played 3 fresh, 2 soph, and 2 juniors in our top 7. Jacob, Grant, Nick, JJ, and Nate are all a year older, so even with 2 freshman playing we will be more experienced and older with 2 fresh, 3 soph, 1 junior. and 1 senior in the top 7.
We will be taller and most likely have better shooters this year. And, it is not a stretch to think Jacob, Nick, and Grant will only get better and better. I think we will be a lot better than last year.
I can agree with that, and Buck was never going to be a true 2 guard. That is another reason why I think he is replaceable. My hope is Wojcik delivers sooner rather than later. I could be wrong, but I think he is real good fit.
I hope you are right. He has the dna/lineage going for him. Decent size and a good run in a decent h.s. league. But can he guard the studs in the A10. Can he compete with these physical and quick beasts 94 feet as a freshman while transitioning to this level and make the same shots that he did in h.s. That is a lot to ask. If he can, he might just save Mooney from an epic slide. If he struggles like most freshman in this spot would, it will be a second year of extreme struggle.
Very fair points, but I don't think he needs to be great next year for us. We don't need 5 guys in double figures like last year. I expect Jacob, Nick, and Grant to score even more and take pressure off Nate and the new guys.
Yes, if those guys can progress (or at least 2 out of 3) the scoring is not as important. More concerned about defense (Jacob, Nick and Grant all have some obvious deficiencies here). We have to play defense. If we are slower, could be a struggle. Do like Cayo on the defensive end, and hope he does not get called for so many fouls in year 2 - but not sold that Sal can be a solid defender as a freshman. Later, yes. Some offense his freshman year, yes I hope. But potentially two underwhelming defenders to the bottom three returning starters on the D end. Its not all offense.
Part of the analysis here is presumptive that we can only start/play five guys. While I concur that we need more length in our top five, I’d prefer to at least have the option to rotate Buck in at 2. Or rotate Khwan in at PG.
This does force us to play taller guys at least, who may or may not be better 3pt shooters than the two guys who are gone.
This does force us to play taller guys at least, who may or may not be better 3pt shooters than the two guys who are gone.
Agree with the above post. The defense next year is going to be brutal. What we lost in buck and fore was athleticism, toughness and rebounding, among other attributes.
We have done nothing to replace any of those attributes. We have all the makings of one of the worst defensive teams in the nation.
We have done nothing to replace any of those attributes. We have all the makings of one of the worst defensive teams in the nation.
Buckingham was a leader on defense. He never was afraid to take a charge or get in front of other players. When things got tough Buck and Khwan never backed down. Going to miss toughness
It doesn't really matter what Khwan and Buck brought individually defensively because we still had 4 guys 6'4 or smaller out there and as a result, were pretty bad defensively.
This is the type of statement that would have you griping to the moderators about me.
We have one player on our roster now that can stay in front of an A10 level guard and thats a 5'9" Gilyard. We have all seen how this movie plays out.
Mooney tried playing six guys once...got a T for it.
I agree that the length will help, but let’s be fair: we’re counting big time on Sal and Nate to be above average defenders, and be able to use their length to make up for quickness.
I don’t think this automatically will be worse or better next year. Again, a lot depends on what those players can bring, and Sal, while highly regarded, is still an unknown. But losing Buck and Kwan doesn’t help us.
It helps us that Buck, Kwan, gilyard, and Sherrod won’t be on the floor together at the same time (defensively). But there is a difference between that lineup hurting us and those players hurting us.
I don’t think this automatically will be worse or better next year. Again, a lot depends on what those players can bring, and Sal, while highly regarded, is still an unknown. But losing Buck and Kwan doesn’t help us.
It helps us that Buck, Kwan, gilyard, and Sherrod won’t be on the floor together at the same time (defensively). But there is a difference between that lineup hurting us and those players hurting us.
Yes, this was a blunder in line with the Charlotte melt down. Guy is a pseudo Ivy DA.
This is so true. Wish it was not the case. Damn DOBO is living the lie like Mooney. Hope NJ guy is a Philly fan lol.
Get it done, 23, you got papers to deliver in the morning. Go Spiders!
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JJ should never be a starter in this league, and we have zero depth. You are counting on a bunch of guys who have never played college ball before (or limited minutes freshman year) to come in and give big time minutes right away. You are hoping against hope. We will be no better than we were last year, and most likely worse.
So tell me, if we don’t do any better this year, would you finally agree that it’s time to move on from Mooney?
Last year we were already one of the worst defensive teams in D1. In particular, we were a poor perimeter defensive team (i.e. "Flying Dutchman" defense). With the loss of Fore and DMB, I only see us being worse on the perimeter and worse overall from a defensive perspective. Perhaps Cayo will help with his length, but I didn't see anything from him last year that makes me think he will be an "elite" defender. He did have a good game against Tillman/VCU last year.
Sal could be a good rim defender, which is something we have not had in a long time, but I also recall that in Garrett's senior season, we were a pretty mediocre team defensively despite having an elite shot-blocker in the mix.
JJ is neither an elite defender, nor a reliable outside shooter. I suspect Cayo and Sal will not be great outside shooters, either. We have a decent core 3, but overall we will be downgrading with respect to replacing KF and DMB, and we will have even less depth. If we continue on our current trajectory of losing players, we might see Oddo on the floor. Unless he decides to transfer to Roanoke College or W&L for his senior season.
Yes. And I agree there is a lot of hope and favorable projecting of Nate, Sal, Woj, and one of the redshirts/other freshman.
But if we win 18-19 this year, would you agree to keep Mooney? If not, what is a win total that you would find acceptable?
I am a '78 graduate of UR who has been reading many posts over the years. When I first joined, I enjoyed the interaction among the posters with enthusiasm and excitement each year. It has become increasingly difficult to digest the daily doses lately. I understand and want our team to win year in and year out, and not to see players leave the program in bunches but we can not keep harping on the same ole same. Let's start supporting the team that we have, instead of complaining about what we can't change now. Regardless to what our future looks like now, I am looking forward with positiveness and with an upbeat attitude that we will turn the corner this year in spite of the dark clouds before us.
Thanks for your support Mr. Carter. I too look to positively support the players. I have enjoyed the discussion on this board over the years, and like you and pike and other posters feel bad for the negative turn. I do think it is OK to not think a 17 year old kid is going to come in and save the day and program, I am afraid that certain posters by being so positive are setting these young men up for failure - like Solly last year. I admit I had high expectations for him and was surprised how quickly Mooney dog housed him, if I may. But yes, support the players.
I do think much of the negative sentiment on here and the larger fan base (we all know guys that don't post but are less than impressed with Mooney) is due to:
1- Lack of success since 2011. We never seem to have a team that just seems built for this (NCAA). We always have to have A,B,and C go right to have a chance at the bubble.
2- Mooney's lack of passion and goal setting and being transparent with the media and fans. Obvious.
3 - Mooney's lack of tactical advantage. With JB and Tarrant, always felt like we could scheme against more talented teams and find a way. Feel opposite with Mooney.
So yes, let's be positive with the guys, without too much false expectations.
With Mooney, if he can win 23 games, he will earn my support back this year.
I will say it again, I liked Khwan and Buck, and they were good players, but if they were really as good offensively and defensively as some of you are saying, they would have been a little better than the 4th and 5th best players on a 12 and 20 team.
Every team needs role players. With their offensive games, I don't see either player ever scoring a lot no matter what team they play for, so they would best help a team by being role players. If we get the right role players with Jacob, Nick, and Grant this year, we will be fine.
Every team needs role players. With their offensive games, I don't see either player ever scoring a lot no matter what team they play for, so they would best help a team by being role players. If we get the right role players with Jacob, Nick, and Grant this year, we will be fine.
The problem is the team that we have today might not be the same team we have tomorrrow, we have already lost 40% of our roster to various defections since January.
I feel bad for our players that they are involved in this revolving door of a program we have now. Many are being sold that they can play at a high A-10 level by our coaching staff, when we all know that is not the case. If you are 18 and someone tells you come to my program and you will play big time college hoops in a big time conference, of course you are going to sign on to that.
Buck was our leading rebounder, second on the team in assists, and 3rd on the team in scoring. He was also the team's best defensive player and made big plays at critical times. Additionally, the energy he brought to the team was palpable, which is probably why we had a headband night for him his freshman year and named a section of the stands after him last year.
Buck scored over 700 points his first two years and had over 400 rebounds. This put him on track to be an all time Top 10 scorer and a Top 5 rebounder for our program all time. The fact that he was going to be a Top 5 rebounder all time as a 6'4 guard playing out of position is pretty remarkable.
He was also Mooney's highest ranked recruit and lived up to the billing in his play.
Buck as a role player or is easily replaceable is laughable. I'm not going to say he was our best player (although an argument could be made as best all around player) but he was our most indispensible player in my opinion.
The fact that Buck was a point guard in high school and then made to play the power forward position in college because of Mooney's recruiting failures is not his fault. In fact to his credit, Buck played out of position against bigger and stronger players for much of his career and still became A-10 ROY and pre-season all A-10 last year.
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This.
It's pretty impossible to read 4700's arguments to the contrary and not have the feeling that he/she is not a paid propaganda artist.
we can have less talent than last year and still do better. talent-wise we should have been much more than a 12 win team last year. we were skilled and for the most part gave great effort (even if we did daydream sometimes when shots went up). but the fit of our best 5 players didn't work defensively. and having 5 offensive players doesn't necessarily lead to more offense than having 3 great offensive players.
Grant, Nick and Jacob are going to be monsters offensively next year. I personally wish we could fill the other 2 starting sport with defense 1st guys. At the 4, I don't know anything about Sal's defense but at least he's long. Nathan can defend for sure. I think ideally we'd have a Kevin Smith or Tony Dobbins type at the 2 for their defense. I assume Wojcik was recruited for his shooting more than his defense, and we'll see about Schneider. but I'd probably start Julius. I don't need him to score much. and while I don't think he's a very strong on the ball defender, he's tough and crashes the boards. we have a serious number of boards to make up for with Buck and Khwan gone.
Grant, Nick and Jacob are going to be monsters offensively next year. I personally wish we could fill the other 2 starting sport with defense 1st guys. At the 4, I don't know anything about Sal's defense but at least he's long. Nathan can defend for sure. I think ideally we'd have a Kevin Smith or Tony Dobbins type at the 2 for their defense. I assume Wojcik was recruited for his shooting more than his defense, and we'll see about Schneider. but I'd probably start Julius. I don't need him to score much. and while I don't think he's a very strong on the ball defender, he's tough and crashes the boards. we have a serious number of boards to make up for with Buck and Khwan gone.
If we start Julius, that is not a good sign. Julius is a very limited player. He is primarily a threat to score from 3 point land but has a seriously flawed technique that makes it difficult to be a consistent scorer. On defense, he lacks the foot speed to stay with other guards, he is one of our biggest users of the flying dutchman defense and while he is very tough and crashes the board, he is undersized and not all that athletic to actually get those rebounds. Also, Julius does not have a great handle to be our starting 2 guard.
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