Womens- @ VCU Sunday 2/23 1:30 PM ESPN+

[spiderstudent17]

Thicker skin youngster. It will be alright. Enjoy the game!

Trust me, I have no problem with it haha. It’s all in good fun.

 

[spiderstudent17]

Simply not true!

calling me John Hardt for using the word holistically - ME
Correcting my phrase of big hat no cattle that one time - ME

Don't blame the rest of our upstanding posters. Like all our players they are "good guys". I am the guilty one. You owe the board an apology.

Fair, it’s mostly you and 8legs1dream lol. You can let me know better words and phrases to use, when you buy me the drinks one day.

 

[MrTbone]

I have not done a 20 year side-by side analytical data comparison of performance if that is what you're asking, but I have been following Richmond sports for over a decade now and am well versed in general Spider history when making the claims. You and other are right when pointing out that we have had several sports that have always been historically successful.

The way I see it is other than Women's swimming and diving and women's tennis (these have gotten comparatively worse to how it used to be but still competing among the top of the A10), every other sport is either at the same level as before or better. Even with field hockey that used to be very good in the early 2000s, we have had over a period though of not being that good and now we are trending back in the right direction. Sports like women's soccer has never been good and still isn't.

The fact that programs like women's lacrosse and men's lacrosse have been good and still are good, is also a testament to AD leadership. We could've hired the wrong coach for women's lacrosse and gone immediately down hill. Our men's lacrosse team has received the support its needed to be among the top in the country every year and even reaching its highest ever ranking this past week. Hardt hired Roussell and under Roussell, we have become one of the most respected mid major programs in the country winning conference championships for the first time since the 90s

Some of what I am saying is also a hunch on how things are trending + data. For instance, in baseball we haven't actually won anything yet. But, we finished 2nd place in Aoki's first year, were 1st in preseason poll in his 2nd year, and have the 60th best class in the country coming in next year. That hasn't happened in a very long time. I wish I could find the email that mentioned how we won 5 conference trophies for the first time in nearly 2 decades or 10 out of the 19 sports teams finishing either 1st or 2nd.

If someone wants to highlight how things were better in the 90s or early 2000s from an athletic perspective, I would genuinely love to hear and have that conversation. But as far as I have been following Richmond sports, I haven't seen us be competitive in nearly all our sports, get as much recognition of success in preseason polls, and win as many conference trophies. In addition to programs that have maintained their historical excellence (e.g. lacrosse) we are also seeing improvement of sports team that have not been good in awhile (e.g. women's basketball, baseball) We already have won 2 trophies this year. This isn't even factoring WBB A10 tournament, A10 men's and women's golf tournament, A10 men's and women's lacrosse regular season + tournament, A10 women's tennis tournament, A10 baseball regular season & tournament. All of these sports we are projected to finish 1st or 2nd preseason poll. That's 10 more A10 trophies that could be realistically won this year too. We could very well shatter last year's record of 5 trophies, which was a first in nearly 2 decades, again this year.

TLDR: Sports that we’ve always been good at, still is the case for the most part. Several programs that have historically been bad have gotten a lot better. We are finishing top of the conference in nearly all our sports and won the most conference trophies for the first time in 2 decades last year, with a chance to break that record again this year.

Yeah I don’t think a 20’or 30’year analysis is warranted. I’m really just saying how did we perform over Hardts 7-year tenure versus the 7 years before. The gill years were pretty lean on leadership by all accounts, so I doubt it was dramatically better under his captaincy.

 

[spiderstudent17]

Yeah I don’t think a 20’or 30’year analysis is warranted. I’m really just saying how did we perform over Hardts 7-year tenure versus the 7 years before. The gill years were pretty lean on leadership by all accounts, so I doubt it was dramatically better under his captaincy.

Definitely better now than the Gill era.

 

[MrTbone]

Definitely better now than the Gill era.

Maybe, I’d like to know quantitatively though. Not asking you to do it. Maybe I’ll get ChatGPT on the case.

 

[spiderstudent17]

Maybe, I’d like to know quantitatively though. Not asking you to do it. Maybe I’ll get ChatGPT on the case.

Here's the best I can come up with, with the research I did. Keith Gill was AD from 2012 - 2017. Hardt from 2018 to now. For simplicity purposes any title won (regular season or conference) under their tenure will be counted towards each AD. If I make any mistakes, please correct me. I have included some sources for things too that were easy in one place. Others I had to dig through multiple pages so won't post them all.

Men's Basketball: Gill 0. Hardt 2. https://atlantic10.com/sports/2024/6/6/MBB25.aspx

Women's Basketball: Gill 0. Hardt 3.
https://atlantic10.com/sports/2024/6/5/WBB25.aspx

Football: Gill 3. Hardt 2.

Men's Lacrosse: Gill 3. Hardt 7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Spiders_men's_lacrosse

Women's Lacrosse: Gill 0. Hardt 6. Source: https://atlantic10.com/sports/2024/6/5/WLAX25.aspx

Men's Golf: Gill 1. Hardt 0.

Women's Golf: Gill 2. Hardt 2. Source: @SpiderWGolf twitter bio

Men's Tennis: Gill 0. Hardt 0.

Women's Tennis: Gill 1. Hardt 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richm... men's tennis team,each of those four seasons.

Baseball: Gill 0. Hardt 0. Though under Hardt we have gone to 2 finals.

Women's Soccer: Gill 0. Hardt 0.

Field Hockey: Gill 1. Hardt 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Spiders

Women's cross country: Gill 2. Hardt 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Spiders

Women's Swim and Diving: Gill 6. Hardt 1. https://richmondspiders.com/sports/womens-swimming-and-diving/roster/coaches/matt-barany/1163

Men's Cross Country/Women's outdoor & indoor track and field: Gill 0. Hardt 0.

Gill total = 19
Hardt total = 24

Gill had more titles with these sports (6): Women's swim and dive, field hockey, women's cross country, women's tennis, men's golf, football
Hardt had more titles with these sports (4): women's lacrosse, men's lacrosse, women's basketball, men's basketball

So analysis on paper makes it seem closer. But note that field hockey, women's tennis, men's golf were only 1 for Gill and 0 for Hardt. Women's cross country was 2-1 and football 3-2. So that's 5 sports where Gill technically has more for now by only 1. Swim and dive did the heavy lifting too.

Hope this analysis helps. I tried to make it objective as possible. My opinion though is only swim and dive notably produced less, under Hardt. Every other sport has been roughly the same or is producing better results.

 

[MrTbone]

Here's the best I can come up with, with the research I did. Keith Gill was AD from 2012 - 2017. Hardt from 2018 to now. For simplicity purposes any title won (regular season or conference) under their tenure will be counted towards each AD. If I make any mistakes, please correct me. I have included some sources for things too that were easy in one place. Others I had to dig through multiple pages so won't post them all.

Men's Basketball: Gill 0. Hardt 2. https://atlantic10.com/sports/2024/6/6/MBB25.aspx

Women's Basketball: Gill 0. Hardt 3.
https://atlantic10.com/sports/2024/6/5/WBB25.aspx

Football: Gill 3. Hardt 2.

Men's Lacrosse: Gill 3. Hardt 7. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Spiders_men's_lacrosse

Women's Lacrosse: Gill 0. Hardt 6. Source: https://atlantic10.com/sports/2024/6/5/WLAX25.aspx

Men's Golf: Gill 1. Hardt 0.

Women's Golf: Gill 2. Hardt 2. Source: @SpiderWGolf twitter bio

Men's Tennis: Gill 0. Hardt 0.

Women's Tennis: Gill 1. Hardt 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richm... men's tennis team,each of those four seasons.

Baseball: Gill 0. Hardt 0. Though under Hardt we have gone to 2 finals.

Women's Soccer: Gill 0. Hardt 0.

Field Hockey: Gill 1. Hardt 0. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Spiders

Women's cross country: Gill 2. Hardt 1. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richmond_Spiders

Women's Swim and Diving: Gill 6. Hardt 1. https://richmondspiders.com/sports/womens-swimming-and-diving/roster/coaches/matt-barany/1163

Men's Cross Country/Women's outdoor & indoor track and field: Gill 0. Hardt 0.

Gill total = 19
Hardt total = 24

Gill had more titles with these sports (6): Women's swim and dive, field hockey, women's cross country, women's tennis, men's golf, football
Hardt had more titles with these sports (4): women's lacrosse, men's lacrosse, women's basketball, men's basketball

So analysis on paper makes it seem closer. But note that field hockey, women's tennis, men's golf were only 1 for Gill and 0 for Hardt. Women's cross country was 2-1 and football 3-2. So that's 5 sports where Gill technically has more for now by only 1. Swim and dive did the heavy lifting too.

Hope this analysis helps. I tried to make it objective as possible. My opinion though is only swim and dive notably produced less, under Hardt. Every other sport has been roughly the same or is producing better results.

Good research, probably need to normalize for 5:7 years ratio. It’s not a blowout to Hardt as noted, mostly was my original point. I bet you backup 2 more years under Miller you get at least 5 more championships, we know at least 1 in 2011 with MBB. Gill only had MLAX for I think 3-4 seasons, not 6-7 like Hardt, that’s probably with at least 2 pts to Gill when you normalize there as well.

I’m not saying Hardt is doing a bad job. He’s probably continuing a fairly nominal performance rate to his predecessors. I just wouldn’t be giving him credit as some kind of super genius.

 

[Eight Legger]

"I don't think we're getting a major bump in donors or applications by getting our ass kicked regularly in the A10, and given how much we are "investing" (I use that term loosely in this context) in the program, it seems like anyone with a pulse in admissions, athletics or finance at UR would be thinking "Something isn't quite adding up here..."

Record Applications Lead to Strong Class of 2028

The University of Richmond is welcoming about 840 traditional undergraduate students to campus for the 2024–25 academic year.

news.richmond.edu

Applications are at an all-time high.

UR Here giving day tops $2.2 million

Annual campaign sets records, including most donors and highest giving ever.

urnow.richmond.edu

Our last Day of Giving set an all-time record, as did the athletics portion of the campaign.

I AM NOT singling out you specifically when I contend that despite what many profess to believe on this site, our university is not going to hell in a "woke" handbasket. The people running the place absolutely know what they are doing. Our national profile has never been higher, our student body has never been smarter or more accomplished, and our university more accurately reflects modern America than in any time in history.

UR is not the same university I attended from 1972-76. Thankfully so. It's much, much better.

Oh I know we have plenty of applications and donations. I'm saying that we aren't getting them specifically because we play basketball (and suck at doing so) in the A10, as 17 was possibly suggesting. We're getting them because we're are a damn good university.

 

[GKiller]

Good research, probably need to normalize for 5:7 years ratio. It’s not a blowout to Hardt as noted, mostly was my original point. I bet you backup 2 more years under Miller you get at least 5 more championships, we know at least 1 in 2011 with MBB. Gill only had MLAX for I think 3-4 seasons, not 6-7 like Hardt, that’s probably with at least 2 pts to Gill when you normalize there as well.

Spoken like a true mush…5:7 makes so much more sense than 7:7. Come on T.

 

[spiderstudent17]

Good research, probably need to normalize for 5:7 years ratio. It’s not a blowout to Hardt as noted, mostly was my original point. I bet you backup 2 more years under Miller you get at least 5 more championships, we know at least 1 in 2011 with MBB. Gill only had MLAX for I think 3-4 seasons, not 6-7 like Hardt, that’s probably with at least 2 pts to Gill when you normalize there as well.

I’m not saying Hardt is doing a bad job. He’s probably continuing a fairly nominal performance rate to his predecessors. I just wouldn’t be giving him credit as some kind of super genius.

You're right that looking at the objective total trophies won under each tenure is similar. For Gill I divided 19 by 6 ( attributed all of 2012 and all of 2017 to him too for simplicity) to get 3.1 trophies/year. Hardt I divided 24 by 6.5 (we still have rest of this spring season and fall season that would go under 2025 category) to get 3.7 trophies/year. So pretty similar.

Looking at it deeper, I still maintain Hardt has done a better job. 5 of the sports teams, he only trails by 1 to Gill. More importantly, other than women's swim & dive Hardt has maintained the performance of each of those sports had or improved it. I consider a drop of 2 or more trophies relative to under Gill's tenure to have worsened. Example Women's tennis going from 1 trophy to 0 is not considered, but women's swim and dive going from 6 to 1 is considered. Even 4 to 2 I would've counted.

In terms of sports, that improved under Hardt's tenure, women's basketball, women's lacrosse, men's lacrosse. Now could an argument be that men's lacrosse just started under Gill. Of course, but it could've gotten worse too without the right support. Same thing with women's lacrosse and hiring the right coach. Even though baseball hasn't won any trophies, they went to 2 A10 finals under Hardt and have looked great so far this year. Field hockey that hasn't won in over a decade, is looking better too. Our flagship sport won 2 trophies under Hardt and 0 with Gill.

So all things considered, our olympic sports have roughly had the same output under both tenure's, but Hardt has been able to maintain the same level of production out of practically all sports teams relative to Gill, and has improved several other sports too.

 

[8legs1dream]

so due to this train wreck of a season you have turned your affection away from Mooney and towards Hardt, am I getting that right?

 

[GKiller]

so due to this train wreck of a season you have turned your affection away from Mooney and towards Hardt, am I getting that right?

just give it a little time and the backtracking will begin

 

[urfan1]

Gill had the benfit of following Miller and the base he created, Hardt came in after Gill with the issues he left.

 

[GKiller]

Gill had the benfit of following Miller and the base he created, Hardt came in after Gill with the issues he left.

Gill is now commissioner of the Sun Belt Conference and will be chairman of Men's basketball selection committe next season