I know I personally think a lot less of the educational programs at UVA and Duke because they each admit a few basketball players every year who probably wouldn't make it as "regular" students.
Oh wait, no I don't.
Oh wait, no I don't.
What benchmark should be used to determine if our team is doing a good job over time?
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It's definitely not easy, but 2k's point is on par. If it were easy, we wouldn't need to pay someone $13 million to do it.
A top level coach will not come here unless he/she can control many items including admissions. A different game altogether. I look to programs like Gonzaga, Butler, Xavier, Villanova, Georgetown, as for examples that have maintain respectable academics and performed well in hoops.
Well I guess well have to disagree. I see University as place for academic study and intellectual pursuit. Just as it has been for millennia. I do not see it as a developmental avenue for sport. I will agree that sport is important to one’s education.
The major “quality” discussion is one I have often, because I feel that I have encountered biochem and theater majors that are smart and prepared for a vocation in their fields, but not what I would call educated or intellectual. Yet that is not s topic for this board. And I would certainly be in the minority on the role of University education now days.
I'm not sure why you follow our sports programs then. You have made it clear that winning is not a priority for you, and everything you have said makes it clear that you would prefer us to be at Division 3. We are a Division 1 athletics program and will remain that way, and that brings with it some of the elements you may not like. That's your prerogative, but it's not our reality and never will be.
Would not hire 95% of those players for a place at any of the firms I have worked at or at my business. I would hire most of the Spiders.
I like the competition and what it brings for the students, Team sports provides a lot of skills that translate to the marketplace.
I do not know why you continue to care. UR stinks, thus you must feel like you stink. Again I prefer to win, but not at any cost. I think a candid discussion needs to occur in off season and engagement of alumni.
It seems you wear the performance of kids in your chest. I do not need the wins to feel good about myself. It’s something to keep me tied to UR as I cannot readily take classes and read the research coming out of UR.
If you don’t like it don’t watch, don’t give, don’t support advertisers. That is how you can change. Or give a lot more to affect change.
It’s not easy but not impossible. In basketball, you just need to land a few kids each year. We need kids like TJ, Buck, Gonzo, etc and not ones like Dominius and Singleton and too many others who weren’t up to playing at this level.
Seems like a whole lot of people are giving Mooney a pass for miserable years of recruiting because it’s hard. It’s going to be hard at a place that isn’t going to sell it’s soul for athletics. I’m ok with that at UR. But think we can be better than 2 for 12 which Mooney has been.
We had our worst recruiting classes after we went to the Sweet 16 and pumped a ton of money into making our arena one of the best in the conference. It’s gotten better but unless we pull a miracle this year, it’s going to be 2 for 13 for Mooney.
First off, completely agree with the Gonzaga comparison. One of the initial posts I made when I joined this forum was in reference to becoming like Gonzaga in getting their brand out there and letting the country know who they are. Thought this way back when my son entered UR in 2003. I only knew them as the school that beat Syracuse.
Was big financial cost (we wanted to pay it for him) for us so other than our home was going to be the single biggest investment we had made to date. So I really dug in deep and did my financial research while son did the other stuff.
Long story short son didn't play sports but UR was the best education for the price. Plus the campus was second to none. Being the avid sports fan I was, Robins Center was set up like a mini NBA arena built almost what, 50 years ago. Huge concourses to get around easily. Amazed us how much less the education cost compared to inferior academic schools. Thought UR was short changing themselves but wasn't complaining. lol.
Now if there basketball program was close to the success of Gonzaga, how much could they charge? Or better yet, more students (smart ones too) would notice UR and apply to go there even if they would never set foot in the Robins Center?
DII football championships can't put UR on the national map, but basketball success easily could. Oh, and by the way, son said it was the best 4 years of his life and the hardest studying he has ever had to do, but with no complaints. He always complained about all the studying in HS.
AZ, also I went to a population website for 2018 ....
Richmond 230,254 (97)
Spokane 221,759 (100)
I mean, you have come on to a sports message board and basically told people for the past week that we shouldn't care about sports. I don't go on to the biology department message board and tell them that they should care less about biology and more about lacrosse.
No, whether we win or lose and sports does not impact how I view myself or how I view our institution. But I do spend a lot of time caring about our athletics program, and anything that I spend a lot of time on, I want to see thrive to the highest level that it can. I don't think there's anything abnormal about that.
I understand if you personally don't care whether we win or lose it any particular rate, but I would suggest it you're not going to find many people like yourself here. So don't act surprised when you find that many of us do actually care about what our money and donations are going towards. And yes, a big part of what we care about is wins and losses.
All this arguing about academic standards holding us back is interesting but maybe we should also consider: 1.It is much more difficult to win against good competition without one or two good big men 2. We are always short of multiple big guys.3. big guys are almost like big guards in Mooney's offense and he doesn't seem to know how to play two at the same time 4. Mooney has this ridiculous long term contract. 5. why would normal low post big guys want to come here to play in an offense they aren't used to for a coach with Mooney's record getting into the NCAA tournament knowing he is going to be here for four more years (or, shudder, maybe longer)??????
Basketball success has and will continue to have absolutely no impact on our tuition. The school charges enough to keep the school operating, they aren't trying to make a profit.
I understand that unlike other schools that don't need the funds, but if higher ups wanted too, I see no reason they couldn't raise it. Higher ups might not desire to make a profit, but don't think they would turn a blind eye to added money to their coffers.
The reason it won't be raised is because, believe it or not, higher education is not a for-profit business. They are not trying to maximize profits, they are trying to provide education. Having a successful basketball team does not make educating our students more expensive, so there is no reason it should increase tuition despite the fact that it may increase 'demand'. There is a reason why Harvard and Richmond have the same tuition, and it isn't because they have the same 'demand'.
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Maybe I was a little hyperbolic, but Gonzaga is not a good school. 74% acceptance rate (Richmond is 32%, VCU ranges from 72% to 79% depending on the source), academic rating of 79/99 from Princeton Review (Richmond is 95/99). They are not a good academic school, they are not even close to the same academic league as Richmond.
Who said care less? I am suggesting appropriate attention be paid to sports as that is a valuable component of the educational experience. I am suggesting that there is a tipping point (not sure where that is) that will begin to place an inordinate amount of importance on sports. That is what needs to discussed with the new leadership with the UR community.
I respect your opinion greatly. However, I fear that we cannot agree on a shared premise. I see sports as an important, yet subordinate to the main purpose of a university (education and research). I infer that you see differently, more of a coequal branch. If I saw it as you did, I may be more likely to see it your way. I am simply concerned that UR may lose itself in the pursuit of high level sports. Unfortunately, many institutions have. We will have to disagree, as I am not confident there is much more room before the tipping point.
I said I would leave this topic. However, I am weak. I prefer to try and enjoy what may turn out to be an exciting season. If not, I am sure your view point will be discussed when the season is over. And rightfully so.
It’s ok. Your post, and many others, suggest that you wear the Spiders performance on the chest. You can see it on how “we” is used far too intimately. Also in the posts recounting the record/appearances presented as a thoughtful and engaging argument. I was there too, but then I realized that I was not a player, coach, administrator, nor a 7 figure donor. Furthermore, my emotions should not be controlled by the performance of kids and their coach. It is merely a socially accepted soap opera for men. One that I partake in, but most certainly have a minority perspective.
I will try again to move off this topic, for I really come here for the insight of the game. A lot of good stuff here for that. I will try to avoid the silly negative discussions that results from wins and the caustic posts from the loses.
Small anecdote. While living in London an Oxford grad employed in the c-suite ask where I went to University. I said the University of Richmond (said not the one on the Thames). He knew it the School and it had a great business school. He knew nothing of the basketball program...except that Mooney had to go
I respect your opinion greatly. However, I fear that we cannot agree on a shared premise. I see sports as an important, yet subordinate to the main purpose of a university (education and research). I infer that you see differently, more of a coequal branch. If I saw it as you did, I may be more likely to see it your way. I am simply concerned that UR may lose itself in the pursuit of high level sports. Unfortunately, many institutions have. We will have to disagree, as I am not confident there is much more room before the tipping point.
I said I would leave this topic. However, I am weak. I prefer to try and enjoy what may turn out to be an exciting season. If not, I am sure your view point will be discussed when the season is over. And rightfully so.
It’s ok. Your post, and many others, suggest that you wear the Spiders performance on the chest. You can see it on how “we” is used far too intimately. Also in the posts recounting the record/appearances presented as a thoughtful and engaging argument. I was there too, but then I realized that I was not a player, coach, administrator, nor a 7 figure donor. Furthermore, my emotions should not be controlled by the performance of kids and their coach. It is merely a socially accepted soap opera for men. One that I partake in, but most certainly have a minority perspective.
I will try again to move off this topic, for I really come here for the insight of the game. A lot of good stuff here for that. I will try to avoid the silly negative discussions that results from wins and the caustic posts from the loses.
Small anecdote. While living in London an Oxford grad employed in the c-suite ask where I went to University. I said the University of Richmond (said not the one on the Thames). He knew it the School and it had a great business school. He knew nothing of the basketball program...except that Mooney had to go
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the success of TJ and now Golden is going to do wonders for recruiting that position and skill set just like we can always get the tiny PG now . I think this past 2 years have become a big reset for the program believe it or not, and this year has become the most challenging for Mooney and he has delivered , and has delivered early. since OOC play
RH98, I laughed at the end of your post. Also you can remove your fear. That decision was made years ago and I do not see it changing. The decision is seen in the lack of give away majors and degrees, the fact that we tell our athletes to go to class, the fact that e refer to them as student athletes. The argument is more refined, more deep than that.
Thanks 2011, you no doubt know more than I do about this. Back when my son went to college, we never gave Harvard, Penn, etc etc a thought cause no chance to get accepted (honestly I thought the same about UR) so didn't even bother looking at the tuition number for Harvard.
Probably don't have any notes left from my research, but I'm pretty sure lots of private schools in PA charged more than UR? Thought Nova did? I forget more often these days so don't hold me to it. And don't rain on my parade that I thought my son got the BEST education he could get, for the money (hard earned) that we spent. lol.
We are DI (FCS ) in football, not DIi. By the way, we do have a DI National Championship in football.
Back to the question of balance between sport and academics. While I concede a bias and limited purview, I’m still waiting to hear of the biology major whose research funding was cut short because of Mooney’s contract. Or the student studying English literature whose academic experience was spoiled because a less than qualified basketball player sat behind him in class. I understand wanting to play devil’s advocate to the jocks who want exceptions here and there for their all important “sportz” but academic reputation is based on macro statistics. Acceptance rate. Retention. Avg SAT score. Diversity of geographic origin. And the intangible factors of an education surrounded by people different from one self.
My freshman year roommate didn’t have the writing ability or objective test scores that I did. He worked his tail off at a rough high school and earned an opportunity to get an elite liberal arts education. Some could argue he didn’t belong there. I would argue I learned more from late night talks with him than anything from a tenured professor.
If we want to talk about rising student fees to pay for a practice facility that’s practically redundant and only necessary for recruiting eye balls because VCU has one...then I think that’s a much harder discussion.
But whether or not UR can find a place for Malcom Bernard all because he has frosted tips? Come on...
My freshman year roommate didn’t have the writing ability or objective test scores that I did. He worked his tail off at a rough high school and earned an opportunity to get an elite liberal arts education. Some could argue he didn’t belong there. I would argue I learned more from late night talks with him than anything from a tenured professor.
If we want to talk about rising student fees to pay for a practice facility that’s practically redundant and only necessary for recruiting eye balls because VCU has one...then I think that’s a much harder discussion.
But whether or not UR can find a place for Malcom Bernard all because he has frosted tips? Come on...
Ugh. Drawn in again.
I see what you are saying, but I think you maybe arguing against things that are not in evidence. For the most part you speak of exceptions, while I am more concerned about the rule. I am willing to have a discussion of about individual exceptions, but I am attempting to discuss this at an instutionsl cultural level.
1. No one is claiming your assertion that $$ on basketball is diverted from academic. I am happy with our current expenditure level for sports. Others may believe differently.
2. No one is contending that an individual student would be harmed by a less than qualified student in their class. For the most part, any given student will have little impact on any other student in a class. I will say that I did take a sports marketing class (easy class) and had an athlete as a partner. He was ill-equipped for college (I had to redo his contribution so we would do well) He was a great guy. College was not for him he eventually left. My contention is that is not fair to the marginal student. More experience...As my name suggests, I lived in robins hall. While I was there that is where the basketball players lived. One student really struggled and had to sit half a semester due to poor performance in class. He felt terrible. He had higher stats than we currently admit on the bottom end. He did finally get through. You don’t know for sure, that is why UR let’s in these students.
3. Showing how your roommate struggled, yet succeded is great. Was he a c student in HS and had test score 1std away from mean. I am sure he was worthwhile knowing and was a key part of your experience. Most people are wothknowing and you can learn something from most people. The best predictor for success in academics is IQ and conscientiousness. There are exceptions of course, but how can a University tell who that will be. They go off of grades, achievement test scores, and try to glean further insight by reading their essays and analyzing their extra-curricular activity. The line has to be drawn somewhere. It’s that way for the non-athletes. And they bend there too. There has to be a line for the athletes, as well. And UR bends there too. University is not for everyone. UR already does take chances on marginal students in each catagory. The argument is around what should that margin be.
4. Practice facility. Not going to get an argument out of me. Practice facility seems silly. Is it not more advantageous to practice where you play half your games? I would think that there could be more issues with URs in game free throws if the practice occured somewhere else.
5. Hair. Really it was the hair? I know you were being flippant, but try not to be so daft, The team is certainly known for their Hoosier haircuts. In fact, is there a player that plays that has a “conservative” haircut. I’m now bald, so I am simply jealous of those being able to do anything unique with their hair. We do not know why Bernard was denied, but doubt it was the hair.
Has anyone noticed that iSpider has gone silent while RobinsHall98 popped up? Coincidence?
Has anyone noticed that iSpider has gone silent while RobinsHall98 popped up? Coincidence?
Is that suppose to be some sort of ad hominem? Ha funny. Since I got into a “fight” with him a few months back. That would be a lot of work writing against myself.
Thought the same thing. But I've had little I on ignore for a while now. : )Has anyone noticed that iSpider has gone silent while RobinsHall98 popped up? Coincidence?
I will have to go back and look for the war of words between you two. I smell a vast array of SAT verbology in the offing.
Eh ignore is lame and for those who need “safe spaces”. Can’t you just skip over the offending text.
I am sure you will. Is the SAT comment suppose to an insult? Next you’ll tell me my math is tight, I too am polite, and make a mean paella. Geez. The English language filled with great words. Since I respect most people here, I do not feel the need to dumb down my language.
Dude, relax. You and little i have a deep command of the language. Just acknowledging the fact. Keep on truckin with the verbiage.
Thanks. My apologies for being curt and snarky. I inferred a different intent. This medium is wrought with the potential for misunderstandings. I should have not been so defensive.
Who knows? Maybe. There are only two possibilities. You won’t know for sure until you open the box Mr. schrodinger.
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