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VCU vs UR

Interesting fact: this crew has 3 of CMs 7 VCU wins under its belt, and is 3-5 across all of their time if you discount the redshirt first year for Grant (I’ll ignore that we lost both that year).

So win at VCU and they’ll be almost .500 for their career…
 
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Spider fan I have mentioned this several times to people, but you are the first on this board that has mentioned this. I do not see Mooney as being the same coach since his double technical meltdown in the A10 tournament. He is intense and needs to coach that way to be effective, not the nervous coach making the same hackneyed comments game after game.
It’s actually been talked about quite a lot on this board.
 
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Interesting fact: this crew has 3 of CMs 7 VCU wins under its belt, and is 3-5 across all of their time if you discount the redshirt first year for Grant (I’ll ignore that we lost both that year).

So win at VCU and they’ll be almost .500 for their career…
3-5 and 4-12
 
Interesting fact: this crew has 3 of CMs 7 VCU wins under its belt, and is 3-5 across all of their time if you discount the redshirt first year for Grant (I’ll ignore that we lost both that year).

So win at VCU and they’ll be almost .500 for their career…

Sherod was also on that team & had the much bigger role. Not that it really matters but not sure how u discount it. Also we lost 3 not 2 after another crushing A10 tourney defeat.

so 3-8 going on 3-9
 
Sherod was also on that team & had the much bigger role. Not that it really matters but not sure how u discount it. Also we lost 3 not 2 after another crushing A10 tourney defeat.

so 3-8 going on 3-9
I was feeling generous…it’s actually the 3 wins that’s interesting. Only 4 other wins in the other 11 or so seasons.
 
Some observations from the VCU game.

1) Rhoades COY Candidate - I think he is has to be the frontrunner at this point. They were picked 4th in the preseason poll, but I just feel with all the injuries they sustained - I think most expected to fall down from that, but they survived their OOC and now are tied for 3rd in the league. His team is limited offensively, but he still gets them to play their brand of defense and that alone is keeping them in games. Just goes to show if you get a team to buy in defensively, you can be mediocre at best on offense and still have a shot to win.

2) Our bad defense - we continue to play bad defense and as a result, teams shoot well against us. This was going to be a game of would VCU score enough with and limit us enough, or would UR score more than VCU given our bad defense. VCU defense forced us to shoot 35% overall and 18% from deep (4-22), but our defense allowed VCU to shoot 50% and 40% from deep (4-10).

3) Vince Williams - we had no answer for this guy. 22 points, 10 rebounds and 8 assists. But most importantly - he not only took the big shot, he made the big shot at the end. No special play was run, just inbound the ball to your best player and let him create. Was it a little lucky - maybe. But at that point in the game - when the guy has 19 points and has hardly missed - not sure how much luck it really is. He just dribbled down, shuffled and pulled up from straight on three pointer. Similar to the Davidson game - how do you let the hot hand beat you again. Pressure him, make him drive and kick - make someone else beat you or make him take a more difficult shot. Instead - we let him dribble down and just pull up with a lightly contested 3. Credit to Williams, Discredit our defense.

4) Burton - he is our best player without question. But he seems to be fading in the last few games. Everyone is allowed to have a bad game, and he did vs VCU. Some of that was their defense and some of that was Burton. But he has struggled a little bit since Davidson game - and I think we need to get him back on track to get back in the win column.

Overall - pretty simple game from VCU standpoint. They forced us to play more of their style than we would like. Something you would not think a team with not only "super senior" experience would allow, but also a team with a lot of experience against VCU. We needed to slow them down, work clock, get good shots and make them play half court defense. Instead - many times we took first shot, sometimes too quick and got pressured into their style of play. Something you don't expect a team of 5 year seniors to do at this point.
 
Spider fan I have mentioned this several times to people, but you are the first on this board that has mentioned this. I do not see Mooney as being the same coach since his double technical meltdown in the A10 tournament. He is intense and needs to coach that way to be effective, not the nervous coach making the same hackneyed comments game after game.
I would describe this idea as a red herring. Mooney did curse more prior to the meltdown, and he did seem less gentlemanly toward the players. That did not, however, translate into him being a better coach.

Mooney's coaching flaws were identified in season # 1. Those of us sitting in section # 7 were discussing the EXACT same issues as everyone on this board talks about today. Mooney's performance at Air Force (1 roughly .500 season as head coach) also confirms. The year before Mooney took over @ Air Force they went to the NCAA, and they went back to the NCAA tournament the year after he left. That is pretty strong evidence.

The same "areas of needed improvement" were also present during the Anderson years, but that team had enough talent to overcome and mask Mooney's flaws.
 
Some observations from the VCU game.

1) Rhoades COY Candidate - I think he is has to be the frontrunner at this point. They were picked 4th in the preseason poll, but I just feel with all the injuries they sustained - I think most expected to fall down from that, but they survived their OOC and now are tied for 3rd in the league. His team is limited offensively, but he still gets them to play their brand of defense and that alone is keeping them in games. Just goes to show if you get a team to buy in defensively, you can be mediocre at best on offense and still have a shot to win.

2) Our bad defense - we continue to play bad defense and as a result, teams shoot well against us. This was going to be a game of would VCU score enough with and limit us enough, or would UR score more than VCU given our bad defense. VCU defense forced us to shoot 35% overall and 18% from deep (4-22), but our defense allowed VCU to shoot 50% and 40% from deep (4-10).

3) Vince Williams - we had no answer for this guy. 22 points, 10 rebounds and 8 assists. But most importantly - he not only took the big shot, he made the big shot at the end. No special play was run, just inbound the ball to your best player and let him create. Was it a little lucky - maybe. But at that point in the game - when the guy has 19 points and has hardly missed - not sure how much luck it really is. He just dribbled down, shuffled and pulled up from straight on three pointer. Similar to the Davidson game - how do you let the hot hand beat you again. Pressure him, make him drive and kick - make someone else beat you or make him take a more difficult shot. Instead - we let him dribble down and just pull up with a lightly contested 3. Credit to Williams, Discredit our defense.

4) Burton - he is our best player without question. But he seems to be fading in the last few games. Everyone is allowed to have a bad game, and he did vs VCU. Some of that was their defense and some of that was Burton. But he has struggled a little bit since Davidson game - and I think we need to get him back on track to get back in the win column.

Overall - pretty simple game from VCU standpoint. They forced us to play more of their style than we would like. Something you would not think a team with not only "super senior" experience would allow, but also a team with a lot of experience against VCU. We needed to slow them down, work clock, get good shots and make them play half court defense. Instead - many times we took first shot, sometimes too quick and got pressured into their style of play. Something you don't expect a team of 5 year seniors to do at this point.

This is the bitter medicine that everyone in the AD needs to take in heavy doses.
 
Some observations from the VCU game.

1) Rhoades COY Candidate - I think he is has to be the frontrunner at this point. They were picked 4th in the preseason poll, but I just feel with all the injuries they sustained - I think most expected to fall down from that, but they survived their OOC and now are tied for 3rd in the league. His team is limited offensively, but he still gets them to play their brand of defense and that alone is keeping them in games. Just goes to show if you get a team to buy in defensively, you can be mediocre at best on offense and still have a shot to win.

2) Our bad defense - we continue to play bad defense and as a result, teams shoot well against us. This was going to be a game of would VCU score enough with and limit us enough, or would UR score more than VCU given our bad defense. VCU defense forced us to shoot 35% overall and 18% from deep (4-22), but our defense allowed VCU to shoot 50% and 40% from deep (4-10).

3) Vince Williams - we had no answer for this guy. 22 points, 10 rebounds and 8 assists. But most importantly - he not only took the big shot, he made the big shot at the end. No special play was run, just inbound the ball to your best player and let him create. Was it a little lucky - maybe. But at that point in the game - when the guy has 19 points and has hardly missed - not sure how much luck it really is. He just dribbled down, shuffled and pulled up from straight on three pointer. Similar to the Davidson game - how do you let the hot hand beat you again. Pressure him, make him drive and kick - make someone else beat you or make him take a more difficult shot. Instead - we let him dribble down and just pull up with a lightly contested 3. Credit to Williams, Discredit our defense.

4) Burton - he is our best player without question. But he seems to be fading in the last few games. Everyone is allowed to have a bad game, and he did vs VCU. Some of that was their defense and some of that was Burton. But he has struggled a little bit since Davidson game - and I think we need to get him back on track to get back in the win column.

Overall - pretty simple game from VCU standpoint. They forced us to play more of their style than we would like. Something you would not think a team with not only "super senior" experience would allow, but also a team with a lot of experience against VCU. We needed to slow them down, work clock, get good shots and make them play half court defense. Instead - many times we took first shot, sometimes too quick and got pressured into their style of play. Something you don't expect a team of 5 year seniors to do at this point.
Burton is not our best player
 
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The same "areas of needed improvement" were also present during the Anderson years, but that team had enough talent to overcome and mask Mooney's flaws.
I would have thought with the current lineup we're putting on the floor and the skill level of these guys that Mooney's flaws could be overcome. I'm still baffled that we are where we are this season.
 
Burton is not our best player
I think he is - but this is something I mentioned last year when everyone decided to return, how would this effect Burton as he likely should be the first option - but many times he is the 3rd option behind Gilyard and Grant.

Statistically - he leads the team in Scoring, Rebounding, and Blocks. He is our best 3 point shooter at 39% and shooting 46% overall, which has been hurt that last few games. But I think we rarely run plays to get him a shot or run a play for Burton. I think many times it is get the ball to Gilyard to create, and maybe he kicks to Burton, or maybe Grant uses his passing skills to find him cutting - or we get him in transition.

Its close - don't get me wrong, Grant and Gilyard are good players. But I think Burton is better all around on both ends of the floor.
 
I think he is - but this is something I mentioned last year when everyone decided to return, how would this effect Burton as he likely should be the first option - but many times he is the 3rd option behind Gilyard and Grant.

Statistically - he leads the team in Scoring, Rebounding, and Blocks. He is our best 3 point shooter at 39% and shooting 46% overall, which has been hurt that last few games. But I think we rarely run plays to get him a shot or run a play for Burton. I think many times it is get the ball to Gilyard to create, and maybe he kicks to Burton, or maybe Grant uses his passing skills to find him cutting - or we get him in transition.

Its close - don't get me wrong, Grant and Gilyard are good players. But I think Burton is better all around on both ends of the floor.
Knowing our current regime, our best player could still be buried on the bench. I guess we won't find out for another year or 2 after the current seniors leave or they transfer somewhere else.
 
I would describe this idea as a red herring. Mooney did curse more prior to the meltdown, and he did seem less gentlemanly toward the players. That did not, however, translate into him being a better coach.

Mooney's coaching flaws were identified in season # 1. Those of us sitting in section # 7 were discussing the EXACT same issues as everyone on this board talks about today. Mooney's performance at Air Force (1 roughly .500 season as head coach) also confirms. The year before Mooney took over @ Air Force they went to the NCAA, and they went back to the NCAA tournament the year after he left. That is pretty strong evidence.

The same "areas of needed improvement" were also present during the Anderson years, but that team had enough talent to overcome and mask Mooney's flaws.
You are probably correct as you follow UR much closer than I do. My point about mentioning this is that I do believe teams can tend to mimic the attitude of their coach. Rhoades is soporific when he speaks to the media, but is fiery while still allowing the freedom of players to play relaxed (mess up a play then just move on). As others have mentioned, I look at Mooney during games and he either looks nervous or in despair. I feel like teams six to seven years ago seemed to be scrappier and tougher at the end of games. The only player I see that seems to have a real drive to win is Gilyard.
 
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I actually thought that was one of our better defensive games but maybe part of that is that VCU isn't great offensively. the 50% shooting is a little misleading. we had 12 steals out of their 19 turnovers. those are 19 empty possessions not counted in the 50%. the 40% is misleading too as they only hit 4 (3 from Williams).

we let the big guys get a little deep a few times. and they made shots. Grant tries harder defensively than many of you give him credit for. he's just not a quick twitch athlete. and Cayo is too small compared to some 4's he covers.

Williams was just great. but I have no issue with the defense on his last 3. he hit a running pull up leaning in forward 3 with one of our best defenders on him. the kid made a play. huge shot. hats off to him.
 
One easy fix - when Grant hedges, he often has his arms out towards the guard he is hedging, instead of up over his head. This makes it much easier to pass over him on a pick and roll. His effort on the hedges is definitely good, just wish he kept his hands up. Williams took advantage of this on a couple of his assists.
 
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VCU is an average team, played a very average game, had 19 turnovers, made very few threes and we still couldn't beat them on our home court with the most experienced team in the history of D1 college basketball.
I would actually be very interested to see a list of all the most experienced teams ever in college basketball and see how they did. I would especially like to see the list of lost experienced mid major teams. Just a guess but I would imagine they did better than what this team is doing.
 
That would be interesting to see, for sure. Obviously there has never been another team with three five-year players and one who has played in six seasons, since that wasn't even possible until this year (maybe with a few random injury exceptions or something, but certainly not four on the same team). Probably the closest thing to it would have been a team with some fifth-year seniors who sat out a year after transferring or something, coupled with some four-year starters,
 
VCU plays hard and defends at a high level. That's why they are in every game and have a real chance to win the A10 tournament despite being a below average offensive team in the half court.
Agreed - it just goes to show what a good defense can do for you. It can make up for poor offense. Where I think it is much harder for good offense to make up for poor defense, because at some point your going to go cold on offense, and the other team will make a run. At the end of the day - especially in close games, you need a stop on defense. We couldn't get a stop vs. Davidson. We couldn't get a stop vs VCU. We couldn't get a rebound vs. Drake. We couldn't stop Miss St. in OT. And these are just examples from this season. We know this happened before in previous years.
 
Agree 100%, I really hope next coach has emphasis on defense and rebounding, in ADDITION to offense. Been banging that drum for awhile. Three mid majors I follow off the top of my head that are good on defense this year, but fairly offensively challenged, with NET rankings: St. Mary's (23), SDSU (46), and VCU (56). All a bit ugly on offense this season, but well ahead of us in rankings. When those teams do put the offense together, all are very very good and make NCAA's. Heck, if we had one decent sized athletic interior player, we could have rolled out a very strong defensive team this year with Gilly, Goose, Dji, Cayo (undersized but athletic enough if coached up), Burton and even Golden could be good on D if coached. It is pitiful to think how bad our coaching has been for years and just gets defended and praised.
 
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There's a reason they say defense wins championships. If you always hold the other team under 65 points, you have a good chance every night. If you need to rely upon making 12 threes every night to win, you'll end up like us.
 
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You can be a great offensive team without being overly tough or physical, but to be a really good defensive team you have to be tough and physical. Teams that are tough and physical are aggressive and seek to impose their will. VCU imposed their will against us, we played their game the entire game.
 
You can be a great offensive team without being overly tough or physical, but to be a really good defensive team you have to be tough and physical. Teams that are tough and physical are aggressive and seek to impose their will. VCU imposed their will against us, we played their game the entire game.
Their kind of style always keeps them in a game.
 
VCU is an average team, played a very average game, had 19 turnovers, made very few threes and we still couldn't beat them on our home court with the most experienced team in the history of D1 college basketball.
Average or better than average or even when worse than average they absolutely own us! Doesn't make any difference - -----
 
He is still our best next level/NBA prospect. All the accolades that the rest of the "best team ever" crew has are simply a product of playing 37 minutes a game for 6 years.
Burton is still a work, I mean a significant amount of work in progress to have an chance at the NBA. It appears he has the athleticism
 
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