Tough loss

[spiderman]

TJ is a max effort guy and not a full court press guy. if you're picking times to get him a quick break, then the times CM did were pretty perfect all night. just before or after commercial breaks so you get him a few minutes while only running maybe a minute off the clock, or after a basket when we're going to press. I didn't feel the times he rested hurt us. I don't expect him to play 40. you never want to take him out but you have to.

so again we got outcoached by a brilliant coach who adjusted? Dayton clearly tried to take away the 3 point shots. get out to Wood and SDJ and to TJ at the top of the key. so instead we KILLED them inside with TJ and Terry. Dayton is considered a great defensive team and we lit them up. if you were a Dayton fan you'd be furious that Dayton never adjusted to stop TJ and TA.

some of you go on that we need to call timeouts to stop runs. yes, if your team isn't prepared then you have to call timeout to change things. if you have them prepared, you save those timeouts for when you need them. you can't burn timeouts every time a team hits a couple of shots in a row.

as for Dayton being #15, they were ranked #15 in the country not long ago. they lost 3 out of 4 when Pollard was hurt. he's back. and they're 23-6. that's a very good team and they played really well. I know everyone wants to judge the whole season after every game, but last night we played very well and lost. it was a great game. kids played their hearts out. yet some of you choose today to say you'll give up tickets. bizarre. the outcome left me sick for them, but I'll watch them every chance I get with that effort.

 

[spider fan]

Our losses have been consistent for these offensive factors - poor free throw shooting and low 3 point percentage. Our wins have been consistent for these factors - good free throw shooting and high 3 point percentage. The analysis is how this happened - the free throw shooting defense by the opponent is the same. The defenders stand there and wait for the shot to go up. The 3 point shooting defense varies and is a factor in our percentages. Is there anyway we could clone Stephen Curry?

Our defensive lapses are well known and have been debated ad nauseum. Only remaining question is making the assumption that our past performance against Duquesne would continue - 18 wins in 19 games - is there anyway that our entire A-10 schedule could consist of playing Duquesne 18 times per year?

 

[Eight Legger]

TJ is a max effort guy and not a full court press guy. if you're picking times to get him a quick break, then the times CM did were pretty perfect all night. just before or after commercial breaks so you get him a few minutes while only running maybe a minute off the clock, or after a basket when we're going to press. I didn't feel the times he rested hurt us. I don't expect him to play 40. you never want to take him out but you have to.

so again we got outcoached by a brilliant coach who adjusted? Dayton clearly tried to take away the 3 point shots. get out to Wood and SDJ and to TJ at the top of the key. so instead we KILLED them inside with TJ and Terry. Dayton is considered a great defensive team and we lit them up. if you were a Dayton fan you'd be furious that Dayton never adjusted to stop TJ and TA.

some of you go on that we need to call timeouts to stop runs. yes, if your team isn't prepared then you have to call timeout to change things. if you have them prepared, you save those timeouts for when you need them. you can't burn timeouts every time a team hits a couple of shots in a row.

as for Dayton being #15, they were ranked #15 in the country not long ago. they lost 3 out of 4 when Pollard was hurt. he's back. and they're 23-6. that's a very good team and they played really well. I know everyone wants to judge the whole season after every game, but last night we played very well and lost. it was a great game. kids played their hearts out. yet some of you choose today to say you'll give up tickets. bizarre. the outcome left me sick for them, but I'll watch them every chance I get with that effort.

I mentioned that I was giving up some of my season tickets, but I am not doing it in protest of last night or the players' effort. I am doing it in protest of the athletic department's apparent indifference toward the state of the program. And now seems like a good time to discuss it, since the home season is over. I didn't just decide last night to do this – I decided after the Davidson game.

 

[Eight Legger]

is there anyway that our entire A-10 schedule could consist of playing Duquesne 18 times per year?

We should invite Duquesne to join us in the new A-2.

 

[bongturk]

that was a great game last night. I know many of you feel jipped. yes, you deserved a win. but we played great. we can point to a couple of plays that cost us but we're not going to make every shot or foul shot or even dunk. offensively, we were terrific against one of the best defenses we'll see. we had 5 turnovers all game. we just didn't shoot well from 3.
defensively? I know. that's a lot of points and a really high shooting percentage. I thought we let them get inside a little too much in the 2nd half. we weren't quite as quick and we had been. but really, Scoochie and Cooke made plays/shots. they were very good.
our big 3 all gave it everything. they're awesome. I thought Trey was great this game, and please don't come back with the stats. some of the plays he made were huge. not taking some shots didn't hurt us at all. we want TJ, TA and SDJ taking most of the shots. Deion played well, too.
Dayton was #15 until Pollard got hurt. they're a great team. barely better than us last night.

Trey and Deion played "great" and "well"? Taylor had 2 points and gave up 13. Davis scored 6 and gave up 14. I'm not sure whatever "intangibles" you can come up with would turn 8 points for and 27 against into either "well" or "great" I just rewatched the game and wrote down all the baskets (points) that were given up. TJ 9, TA 12, SDJ
18, DT 13, TD 17, Kf 10, JJ 2, MW not sure. Yes some of those were fouls at the end of the game which resulted in several made free throws. I strongly disagree that not taking open shots doesn't hurt. I wouldn't blame this loss on that. Allen's five missed free throws hurt the most. However, over the course of the season the other two seniors passing up many open shots put a great deal more pressure on our three main scorers. Davis had a nice drive for a dunk and another layup of a nice feed from TJ. Where has that been all season? Part of being a senior is showing some leadership or at least a little aggressiveness on both offense and defense. I don't put all the blame on Davis and Taylor. Mooney also should take some responsibility. You think they played "great" and "well", that's fine. I'm just not sure what criteria you are using to measure their performances.

 

[spiderman]

and I don't know how you attribute points against in a team game with a matchup zone defense. Trey and Deion missed one shot between them. the fact they don't shoot much NEVER hurt us last night. I can't see how you think passing up a shot caused TJ and TA any duress in this game. they made good decisions.

they also combined for 10 assists and 2 turnovers, 5 steals and a blocked shot. the dunk, stolen inbounds pass and assist to a cutting TJ were huge plays at a big time of the game by Trey. making both FT's was big too. I know you want to bash them every game, but take a break when they do good things out there ... on senior night for crying out loud.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

In many ways the most frustrating loss of them all because it's shows how little it might take Ina few areas for things to very different result wise. But in the end it's all tha same stuff over and over. We shoot 53% and commit 5 turnovers. It should be almost impossible to lose that. We find a way by letting other team shoot 58% and pound us on the boards. Both are just like every night. Nice double digit lead but then we get our nightly offensive drought and watch them pass us right on by. Time outs? Nope- As always. Big FT misses? Check that off too!

Play with the lead like we are scared- - yup, we covered off that one too. Looking for the big play at a crucial moment that never comes? X that box too. I mean it's just awful right down to seeing play aWalk on and it's because he is truly our next best option!

I thought that overall the Spiders played pretty well against Dayton. I was not disappointed with the effort or competitiveness of the players. Cline was outstanding offensively, and the team scrapped until the end.
Players have to perform and win games. HOWEVER, repetatively poor coaching performance does not give the team it's best chance of winning. The decisions from the bench (one can document the same things over and over) puts the players in the position of having to overcome "what is or is not" being done by the coach.

In layman's terms and for the sake of discussion, let's say that there are 40 aspects in each basketball game that cumulatively determines who wins and loses. If Coach A makes 23 decisions a game that do not work in his team's favor, and Coach B makes 9 decisions per game that do not work in his team's favor, which ball club is going to win a higher percentage of games?

This article from 2 years ago speculates Mooney was the 4th best in the country at coaching in the final minute of a game:

http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/whos_the_best_in_game_coach

With this post you may have just proven that many stats have very little value. If one were to review the list of powerhouse basketball programs listed , one would see that quite a few of the "best 10" failed to make the NCAA tournament on a regular basis. Yes, a couple are consistently in, but most of them are not. Several of these teams have goose eggs during the last 5-years.

1.Northeastern +7.2
2 Indiana St. +7.0
3 San Francisco +6.8
4 Richmond +6.8
5 Baylor +6.6
6 Temple +6.0
7 Colorado +5.9
8 New Mexico +5.8
9 Arizona +5.7
10 Jacksonville +5.7

Anyone who could convince a basketball crowd that the "BEST" teams at closing games are having limited success in reaching the NCAA tournament, will earn my vote for BS King of the year.

 

[PhiDeltaSpider]

So a team that was ranked #15 in the country plays their best possible game and we lose by 1 therefore Mooney is an inept coach? Is it possible to lose a game and not have it be due to bad coaching? Or is the definition of bad coaching on the board losing a game, no matter who we are playing?

I never said we lost this game because of bad coaching; my implication was meant to point out that were CM a good coach, our chances of winning would be better. It's not particularly that he is a bad bench coach but that his philosophy and inflexibility are factors that hurt our team. (I never used the word inept because I do not believe that he is inept, just not very good. He is plenty ept.). Also I doubt that Dayton can shoot any better than they did against us, and we stayed with them and possibly should have won. We played a very good game last night, Dayton just had more points than we did at the end. (Perhaps I did exaggerate a bit by saying Dayton could have beaten most teams in the country the way they played last night. Let's just say that they looked like a Sweet 16 team last night, as we did against California.)

 

[fan2011]

With this post you may have just proven that many stats have very little value. If one were to review the list of powerhouse basketball programs listed , one would see that quite a few of the "best 10" failed to make the NCAA tournament on a regular basis. Yes, a couple are consistently in, but most of them are not. Several of these teams have goose eggs during the last 5-years.

1.Northeastern +7.2
2 Indiana St. +7.0
3 San Francisco +6.8
4 Richmond +6.8
5 Baylor +6.6
6 Temple +6.0
7 Colorado +5.9
8 New Mexico +5.8
9 Arizona +5.7
10 Jacksonville +5.7

Anyone who could convince a basketball crowd that the "BEST" teams at closing games are having limited success in reaching the NCAA tournament, will earn my vote for BS King of the year.

Your response makes no sense, it seems like you didn't actually read the article. The article notes that end-game coaching (especially coaching in the last minute) is a very small aspect of coaching overall and there is no reason to believe someone who is very good at end game coaching would be good at the other more important aspects of coaching.

"If you know me well, you can probably guess my reaction here. Look, I love Fred Hoiberg, but how can anyone possibly know who the best end-game coach in the country is? There are 351 coaches! I’d concede that the best recruiter or best developer of talent probably resides at a famous school that’s on TV a lot, simply because those skills are most important to winning a bunch of games and coaches who win a bunch of games at lower levels will quickly find themselves at a higher level. And coaches that win a bunch of games at higher levels are almost surely good at bringing in great players and coaching them to be better.

But end-game coaching strikes me as something that is far less important than either recruiting or player development in one’s long-term coaching success. And one’s skill in end-game coaching is not really related to those other two things anyway. It’s certainly conceivable that a guy who goes 10-20 in the Sun Belt is a great end-game coach but just doesn’t have the players to execute his brilliant strategy or even get the team in position to be in a close game very often."

This was a list of coaches whose teams outperformed expectations by the largest margins in the final minute of the game. This list says nothing about who is a better coach for the other 97.5% of the game, or who is a better recruiter or better at developing players or any of the other important aspects of coaching. Mooney has done exceptionally well in this very small part of coaching, which means his end of game strategy (offense/defense substitutions) is probably very effective.

 

[MidloTrader]

Story of last night's game and our season . . . hold an opponent to <35 in first half, other team makes adjustments at halftime . . . we let opponent and their shooters score 50+ in 2nd half . . . CM and assistants make no adjustments during 2nd half . . . our team chokes down the stretch (particularly after the 8 min mark with a lead) . . . enough said!!!!

 

[SpiderK]

Story of last night's game and our season . . . hold an opponent to <35 in first half, other team makes adjustments at halftime . . . we let opponent and their shooters score 50+ in 2nd half . . . CM and assistants make no adjustments during 2nd half . . . our team chokes down the stretch (particularly after the 8 min mark with a lead) . . . enough said!!!!

On the nose

 

[keefusb]

We are not a good team this season, and I don't expect that next season will be much better.

 

[SpiderRick]

At least we won't go in to next year expecting much, maybe we'll even be happy with close loses

 

[97spiderfan]

S-man, thanks for providing an explanation for why CM had Deion in for TJ for several possession after the under 4 timeouts. I personally think him being tired is complete BS, he only played 29 minutes, and no way does TJ want out of the game where the basket is as big of an ocean.

Here is my explanation as to why he did it. Because that is how he always does it in close games with his offense-defense sub in the waning minutes. Context matters nothing, TJ was having a career night, so what Deion is still going on to play defense.

And lastly, all you have to do is point to the scoreboard, how did this piece of coach strategy work out??? Did we stop Dayton one time under 4 minutes (I don't think we did) and we had several straight empty possessions where our best player was "resting" on the bench. No it didn't work, it failed and we lost.

 

[WebSpinner]

would submit that maybe it is not end of game coaching as much as it is end of game execution and leadership

 

[Not-A-Homer]

Your response makes no sense, it seems like you didn't actually read the article. The article notes that end-game coaching (especially coaching in the last minute) is a very small aspect of coaching overall and there is no reason to believe someone who is very good at end game coaching would be good at the other more important aspects of coaching.

"If you know me well, you can probably guess my reaction here. Look, I love Fred Hoiberg, but how can anyone possibly know who the best end-game coach in the country is? There are 351 coaches! I’d concede that the best recruiter or best developer of talent probably resides at a famous school that’s on TV a lot, simply because those skills are most important to winning a bunch of games and coaches who win a bunch of games at lower levels will quickly find themselves at a higher level. And coaches that win a bunch of games at higher levels are almost surely good at bringing in great players and coaching them to be better.

But end-game coaching strikes me as something that is far less important than either recruiting or player development in one’s long-term coaching success. And one’s skill in end-game coaching is not really related to those other two things anyway. It’s certainly conceivable that a guy who goes 10-20 in the Sun Belt is a great end-game coach but just doesn’t have the players to execute his brilliant strategy or even get the team in position to be in a close game very often."

This was a list of coaches whose teams outperformed expectations by the largest margins in the final minute of the game. This list says nothing about who is a better coach for the other 97.5% of the game, or who is a better recruiter or better at developing players or any of the other important aspects of coaching. Mooney has done exceptionally well in this very small part of coaching, which means his end of game strategy (offense/defense substitutions) is probably very effective.

All are free to believe what they will

 

[coachfezz]

Yes this is true

 

[spiderman]

S-man, thanks for providing an explanation for why CM had Deion in for TJ for several possession after the under 4 timeouts. I personally think him being tired is complete BS, he only played 29 minutes, and no way does TJ want out of the game where the basket is as big of an ocean.

Here is my explanation as to why he did it. Because that is how he always does it in close games with his offense-defense sub in the waning minutes. Context matters nothing, TJ was having a career night, so what Deion is still going on to play defense.

And lastly, all you have to do is point to the scoreboard, how did this piece of coach strategy work out??? Did we stop Dayton one time under 4 minutes (I don't think we did) and we had several straight empty possessions where our best player was "resting" on the bench. No it didn't work, it failed and we lost.

I should have taped the game I guess. I really don't think TJ was on the bench for many offensive possessions. he'd come out with us on defense, we'd foul, and their 63% FT shooter would hit both while TJ came back in for offense. maybe I'm misremembering a possession or two, but think that's how it went a few of times. TJ's not the guy you want on the floor when we're full court pressing.

 

[SpiderK]

Didn't need to tape it. Here is what happened. TJ Cline scored 36 points in 29 minutes. Our two "defensive specialist" had 8 points and 3 rebounds combined and gave up 85 points.

 

[coachfezz]

Didn't need to tape it. Here is what happened. TJ Cline scored 36 points in 29 minutes. Our two "defensive specialist" had 8 points and 3 rebounds combined and gave up 85 points.

 

[bongturk]

and I don't know how you attribute points against in a team game with a matchup zone defense. Trey and Deion missed one shot between them. the fact they don't shoot much NEVER hurt us last night. I can't see how you think passing up a shot caused TJ and TA any duress in this game. they made good decisions.

they also combined for 10 assists and 2 turnovers, 5 steals and a blocked shot. the dunk, stolen inbounds pass and assist to a cutting TJ were huge plays at a big time of the game by Trey. making both FT's was big too. I know you want to bash them every game, but take a break when they do good things out there ... on senior night for crying out loud.

I attributed points against to the player who was guarding the opposing player who scored each basket. How else would you do it? I know there are some on here who love or at least like these two guys very much. That is fine. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. I have watched these guys for three years. I thought they were average two years ago, a little worse last year and not much better this year. I don't believe they have helped the team as much as two senior three year starters should. Because of Mooney's favoritism towards seniors I don't think other guys who might have been able to help more were allowed to play enough early in the year in the non conference part of the schedule and thus these two played almost by default. I don't dislike them personally. I don't know them personally. I just believe they are both overrated as defensive players and really of very little value on offense. As I have explained on other posts, because these two have a reputation of not shooting, other teams know this, slack of on them and focus much more on our scorers. What possible difference does this happening on senior night make??? Using the info you have stated here I still don't know how the adjectives "great" and "well" are accurate here. If Davis was "great" what was TJ?????
I hope all the players have "great" games on Saturday and in the conference tournament next week.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

I attributed points against to the player who was guarding the opposing player who scored each basket. How else would you do it? I know there are some on here who love or at least like these two guys very much. That is fine. Everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. I have watched these guys for three years. I thought they were average two years ago, a little worse last year and not much better this year. I don't believe they have helped the team as much as two senior three year starters should. Because of Mooney's favoritism towards seniors I don't think other guys who might have been able to help more were allowed to play enough early in the year in the non conference part of the schedule and thus these two played almost by default. I don't dislike them personally. I don't know them personally. I just believe they are both overrated as defensive players and really of very little value on offense. As I have explained on other posts, because these two have a reputation of not shooting, other teams know this, slack of on them and focus much more on our scorers. What possible difference does this happening on senior night make??? Using the info you have stated here I still don't know how the adjectives "great" and "well" are accurate here. If Davis was "great" what was TJ?????
I hope all the players have "great" games on Saturday and in the conference tournament next week.

I appreciate all our student athletes and what they represent. But I agree that CM's offense is built around 5 players on the floor being able to score which makes the motion offense highly effective. Look at 2011 with Geroit, Gonzo, Anderson, Harper and Butler, then you come in with Smitty, Martel and Ced. None of these were scared to shoot or attack the rim. Defenses did not know who to cover.

This year defenses dare DT and Trey to shoot and when these two do drive to the basket, 90% of the time they
pass out cause they are not confident enough to take jumper in lane or attack the rim. Our bench produces more shooters on offense with Fore, MW and JJ. The current offensive style is not effective unless we have 5 capable shooters on the floor.

Someone referred to next year as being better cause we may have more capable scorers on the floor, and because we will continue with the poor rebounding ability, we will need to be and I tend to agree with that thought.
DT and Trey were role players who were in an offensive scheme that was not suited for them.

 

[SpiderK]

I appreciate all our student athletes and what they represent. But I agree that CM's offense is built around 5 players on the floor being able to score which makes the motion offense highly effective. Look at 2011 with Geroit, Gonzo, Anderson, Harper and Butler, then you come in with Smitty, Martel and Ced. None of these were scared to shoot or attack the rim. Defenses did not know who to cover.

This year defenses dare DT and Trey to shoot and when these two do drive to the basket, 90% of the time they
pass out cause they are not confident enough to take jumper in lane or attack the rim. Our bench produces more shooters on offense with Fore, MW and JJ. The current offensive style is not effective unless we have 5 capable shooters on the floor.

Someone referred to next year as being better cause we may have more capable scorers on the floor, and because we will continue with the poor rebounding ability, we will need to be and I tend to agree with that thought.
DT and Trey were role players who were in an offensive scheme that was not suited for them.

Exactly Carolina, just having 5 scorers on the floor will make the opposing defense cover all 5. Taller guards who are more aware of what's happening on the court may help the rebounding slightly.

 

[fan2011]

I can't believe people are still criticizing our offense this year, as if that was the problem. We clearly showed this year that you don't need 5 players who can score to have one of the most effective offenses in the country. Our problems were 100% on defense.

 

[iSpider]

I appreciate all our student athletes and what they represent. But I agree that CM's offense is built around 5 players on the floor being able to score which makes the motion offense highly effective. Look at 2011 with Geroit, Gonzo, Anderson, Harper and Butler, then you come in with Smitty, Martel and Ced. None of these were scared to shoot or attack the rim. Defenses did not know who to cover.

This year defenses dare DT and Trey to shoot and when these two do drive to the basket, 90% of the time they
pass out cause they are not confident enough to take jumper in lane or attack the rim. Our bench produces more shooters on offense with Fore, MW and JJ. The current offensive style is not effective unless we have 5 capable shooters on the floor.

Someone referred to next year as being better cause we may have more capable scorers on the floor, and because we will continue with the poor rebounding ability, we will need to be and I tend to agree with that thought.
DT and Trey were role players who were in an offensive scheme that was not suited for them.

+1

 

[Not-A-Homer]

I can't believe people are still criticizing our offense this year, as if that was the problem. We clearly showed this year that you don't need 5 players who can score to have one of the most effective offenses in the country. Our problems were 100% on defense.

Defense was indeed a big problem, but not nearly 100%

 

[ur2K]

I can't believe people are still criticizing our offense this year, as if that was the problem. We clearly showed this year that you don't need 5 players who can score to have one of the most effective offenses in the country. Our problems were 100% on defense.

Bingo - this year we had an elite offense and crappy defense. Going into next year, I don't see how we improve on either of those sides of the ball.

 

[MrTbone]

92%...

 

[spiderman]

I can't believe people are still criticizing our offense this year, as if that was the problem. We clearly showed this year that you don't need 5 players who can score to have one of the most effective offenses in the country. Our problems were 100% on defense.

seriously. it's mind boggling. we scored 84 points against probably the best defense in the A10 and people continue the same argument that Trey and Deion are hurting our offense. somehow TJ was fighting through double teams to 36 points and would have had more if not for Trey and Deion and Mooney holding him back. maybe we'll average 95 ppg next year.
look, I really like Khwan and Marshall so don't take this argument the wrong way. Khwan played 22 minutes and took 3 shots. Wood hit one layup in 21 minutes. Julius may show us he can shoot some day, but for now a Meadowlark Lemon half court hook shot in 1980 had a better chance of finding the net. the argument about how much better we'd be if we played the other guys made sense until we started playing the other guys more.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

I can't believe people are still criticizing our offense this year, as if that was the problem. We clearly showed this year that you don't need 5 players who can score to have one of the most effective offenses in the country. Our problems were 100% on defense.

Fan2011 yes defense was worse it has been in years, but when it came to crunch time and we were playing offense vs defense, the opponent knew if we made a stop and unless we
called time out, they could focus on our shooters or foul Trey or DT. If Trey and DT were in on offense we were better if playing fullcourt press or taking ball upcourt quickly. They hurt
us in halfcourt offense.

No our offense was running smoothly most of the year, but if you relook at last 4 minutes of Dayton game when TJ is on bench, we had trouble running our quick passing game
that TJ does the best. DT and Trey were role players that were OK against lower division teams with poorer defenders. Yes Trey had a career game against VCU in first game
but what has he done since? If DT and Trey could average 5-8 points per game and 5-8 rebounds a game we would not be having this discussion and we would be in the top
4 of the A10 and maybe even in post season talk.

Lastly, I know DT developed back issues and don't know how that affected his total game and I personally looked for Trey to be a more potent scorer this year after the last half
of previous year, but I felt he digressed his senior year, to be perfectly honest. But I am glad they were here, but I don't think their strengths fit into the primary focus of CMs system.

 

[fan2011]

Fan2011 yes defense was worse it has been in years, but when it came to crunch time and we were playing offense vs defense, the opponent knew if we made a stop and unless we
called time out, they could focus on our shooters or foul Trey or DT. If Trey and DT were in on offense we were better if playing fullcourt press or taking ball upcourt quickly. They hurt
us in halfcourt offense.

No our offense was running smoothly most of the year, but if you relook at last 4 minutes of Dayton game when TJ is on bench, we had trouble running our quick passing game
that TJ does the best. DT and Trey were role players that were OK against lower division teams with poorer defenders. Yes Trey had a career game against VCU in first game
but what has he done since? If DT and Trey could average 5-8 points per game and 5-8 rebounds a game we would not be having this discussion and we would be in the top
4 of the A10 and maybe even in post season talk.

Lastly, I know DT developed back issues and don't know how that affected his total game and I personally looked for Trey to be a more potent scorer this year after the last half
of previous year, but I felt he digressed his senior year, to be perfectly honest. But I am glad they were here, but I don't think their strengths fit into the primary focus of CMs system.

I am tired of explaining the same thing over and over again. People on this board seem to not read or refuse to understand basic basketball concepts. It does not matter that Trey and Deion don't score much because they are not shooting much. We only get a certain number of shots per game, players who can score efficiently should take more shots than players who can't. This allocation of shots on our offense is incredible this year and one of the reasons our offense has been so potent, the best shooters take a huge portion of our shots.

The only time our worse shooters should be taking shots is when they have a very high percentage shot available. Trey and Deion are great at doing that this year, especially Deion (72% from 2, 33% from 3). For most possessions our better shooters should be shooting. Our incredible shot allocation has made the average shot from our team result in 1.12 points (D1 average: 0.998), which is the 15th highest in the country! The only other time Richmond has come close to that shot value was our sweet 16 team (1.06 points per shot) but our current team is still much better than that team was on offense.

Of course our offense could be better. We could score on every possessions. But it has truly been incredible this year and it is not at all the reason we are a mediocre team right now. That is 100% on our defense, which has been atrocious, especially in 3FG defense.

 

[spiderman]

you're wasting your fingers, 2011. again.
"don't give me stats ... the system CM runs on offense needs 5 shooters on the floor".

 

[urmite]

2011, I agree that either the execution of the defensive plan or if that isn't possible the defensive plan itself is what needs to change.

But I would be curious to see a graph of our points per possession as the game progresses compared to D1 average. For instance, we do well overall, but are we further above average on the 21st possession in the game vs the last two possessions of the game?

I wonder if there are certain possession numbers we do better than others? Or other criteria that could define a possession such as possessions when down 2 or 3 with less than 4 minutes left.

I don't know the results, but do feel that not every possession is of equal importance.

 

[bongturk]

I am tired of explaining the same thing over and over again. People on this board seem to not read or refuse to understand basic basketball concepts. It does not matter that Trey and Deion don't score much because they are not shooting much. We only get a certain number of shots per game, players who can score efficiently should take more shots than players who can't. This allocation of shots on our offense is incredible this year and one of the reasons our offense has been so potent, the best shooters take a huge portion of our shots.

The only time our worse shooters should be taking shots is when they have a very high percentage shot available. Trey and Deion are great at doing that this year, especially Deion (72% from 2, 33% from 3). For most possessions our better shooters should be shooting. Our incredible shot allocation has made the average shot from our team result in 1.12 points (D1 average: 0.998), which is the 15th highest in the country! The only other time Richmond has come close to that shot value was our sweet 16 team (1.06 points per shot) but our current team is still much better than that team was on offense.

Of course our offense could be better. We could score on every possessions. But it has truly been incredible this year and it is not at all the reason we are a mediocre team right now. That is 100% on our defense, which has been atrocious, especially in 3FG defense.

Statman, I'm sure your stats (as usual) are right on the money and totally without question. I wonder, however, if it is possible that certain situations which are not measured by stats ever have any bearing on things? If a team finds out that an opponent has relied almost exclusively on three main scorers for almost all its games and the other two starters have been either non scorers or very low scorers for those same games, isn't it possible that that team will focus more on the scorers and less on the non scorers?? Isn't it also possible that if the scorers have had to work harder to score that maybe, just maybe, they have been less effective on defense and/or offense as a result? I don't have any stats to back this idea up but I did post in January that Terry Allen looked tired and seemed to be less and less effective on defense during the second half of the season. As I said in an earlier post, I blame the "coach" much more than the players for this. He waited way too long before trying to make any real changes. I think the defense has been very poor primarily because of poor fundamentals but also because this defense doesn't suit these players. Wade put in multiple defenses with a brand new team. This coach stuck with a poor defensive system with a veteran team again way too long.
Defense the main culprit? absolutely. 100 percent of the blame? Not in my eyes.

 

[fan2011]

2011, I agree that either the execution of the defensive plan or if that isn't possible the defensive plan itself is what needs to change.

But I would be curious to see a graph of our points per possession as the game progresses compared to D1 average. For instance, we do well overall, but are we further above average on the 21st possession in the game vs the last two possessions of the game?

I wonder if there are certain possession numbers we do better than others? Or other criteria that could define a possession such as possessions when down 2 or 3 with less than 4 minutes left.

I don't know the results, but do feel that not every possession is of equal importance.

Every possession is of equal importance, you don't get more points for scoring at the end of the game. If the score is close at the end of the game those possessions can seem more important, but the only reason the score is close in the first place is because you did not score or defend well enough earlier in the game. If you scored enough earlier in the game so that the game never ended up being close in the first place those early scoring possessions were very important. People tend to not think about that though.

As for tracking efficiency over the course of a game, all I can say is that under Mooney we tend to perform exceptionally well during the final minute of the game. Offense/defense substitutions tend to be very effective. For example, we scored 9 points on 4-5 shooting in the final minute against Dayton. We scored 6 points on 3-3 shooting in the final minute against Davidson. We were 2-2 from the field and 4-4 on free throws in the final minute against Fordham. It is not always enough to win depending on how big of a hole we dug ourselves, but we tend to be very efficient in the last minute of games (which was pointed out indirectly in the article I posted a few days ago.)

 

[fan2011]

Statman, I'm sure your stats (as usual) are right on the money and totally without question. I wonder, however, if it is possible that certain situations which are not measured by stats ever have any bearing on things? If a team finds out that an opponent has relied almost exclusively on three main scorers for almost all its games and the other two starters have been either non scorers or very low scorers for those same games, isn't it possible that that team will focus more on the scorers and less on the non scorers?? Isn't it also possible that if the scorers have had to work harder to score that maybe, just maybe, they have been less effective on defense and/or offense as a result? I don't have any stats to back this idea up but I did post in January that Terry Allen looked tired and seemed to be less and less effective on defense during the second half of the season. As I said in an earlier post, I blame the "coach" much more than the players for this. He waited way too long before trying to make any real changes. I think the defense has been very poor primarily because of poor fundamentals but also because this defense doesn't suit these players. Wade put in multiple defenses with a brand new team. This coach stuck with a poor defensive system with a veteran team again way too long.
Defense the main culprit? absolutely. 100 percent of the blame? Not in my eyes.

It is certainly possible for the things you have mentioned to happen in theory, but it has not actually happened so far this year. Dayton has the best defense in the conference with the best coach in the conference. They could not stop TJ (73% from 2, 40% from 3, 36 points), TA (71% from 2, 16 points) or SDJ (50% from 2, 40% from 3, 20 points) from scoring extremely efficiently even with 2 'non scorers' on the floor.

 

[97spiderfan]

What I think your efficiency stats are unable to account is the fact that Terry and TJ are often double teamed on offense because the defense can sag off Trey and Deion. The cumulative effects of double teaming have to wear on TJ and Terry (especially) throughout the game and throughout the season. So, yes our offense is very efficient, but how much energy on offense must TJ and Terry have to expend have to contend with double and triple teams. This has to have some type of carry effect over onto to defense and how much energy they can expend there.

Plus Trey and Deion are not all that great on defense either, so they cut both ways when they are out on the court.

 

[fan2011]

What I think your efficiency stats are unable to account is the fact that Terry and TJ are often double teamed on offense because the defense can sag off Trey and Deion. The cumulative effects of double teaming have to wear on TJ and Terry (especially) throughout the game and throughout the season. So, yes our offense is very efficient, but how much energy on offense must TJ and Terry have to expend have to contend with double and triple teams. This has to have some type of carry effect over onto to defense and how much energy they can expend there.

Plus Trey and Deion are not all that great on defense either, so they cut both ways when they are out on the court.

Well, offensive and defensive efficiency have been pretty constant the whole year, so there is not much evidence to back up the 'tired' claim. Also weren't you the one who said they didn't buy TJ being tired against Dayton since he only played 29 minutes? Which is it, these guys should play more minutes or we should rest them more because they are getting tired?

 

[Marley13]

Never been a fan of the "tired" argument. These are kids. Unless they are playing back to backs they shouldn't be that tired.

 

[SpiderK]

Hmmmm- we suck at guarding the 3 point line and can't shoot free throws. Problem identified, now fix it.