Top 4 seed
- Thread starter VT4700
- Start date
See if I have this right...
Right now we're tied with La Salle for the 11/12 spot at 7–11. They beat us head-to-head, so we'd be the 12 in that scenario.
But, Davidson is 7–10 and plays URI tonight in the final game of the regular season. If they win, they finish a game ahead and the above scenario holds.
If they lose, they join us at 7–11 for a three-team tie at the 10/11/12 spots. All would be 1–1 among the group, so it then goes to record against the highest-ranked team, VCU. La Salle takes that tiebreaker at 0–1 while both UR and Davidson are 0–2, so the Explorers get the 10.
But then I can never remember how it works so I'm unsure how the tie between us and Davidson is broken. Does it go back to head-to-head, in which case we get the 11 since we beat them? Or does it keep proceeding through the common opponents? And if it's the latter, is the next one only our records against the 2-seed Dayton (which we win 0–1 to 0–2) or is it against the whole group of teams at 12–6 (which we also win 2–1 to 1–5). Looks like we get the 11 seed in any of those scenarios, so I guess it doesn't matter.
So I think the answer is if Davidson wins tonight we're the 11 and play 14-seed URI at 4:30pm and if Davidson loses we're the 12 and play 13-seed UMass (which would win a head-to-head tiebreaker over URI for the 13/14 spots) at 11:30am.
Right now we're tied with La Salle for the 11/12 spot at 7–11. They beat us head-to-head, so we'd be the 12 in that scenario.
But, Davidson is 7–10 and plays URI tonight in the final game of the regular season. If they win, they finish a game ahead and the above scenario holds.
If they lose, they join us at 7–11 for a three-team tie at the 10/11/12 spots. All would be 1–1 among the group, so it then goes to record against the highest-ranked team, VCU. La Salle takes that tiebreaker at 0–1 while both UR and Davidson are 0–2, so the Explorers get the 10.
But then I can never remember how it works so I'm unsure how the tie between us and Davidson is broken. Does it go back to head-to-head, in which case we get the 11 since we beat them? Or does it keep proceeding through the common opponents? And if it's the latter, is the next one only our records against the 2-seed Dayton (which we win 0–1 to 0–2) or is it against the whole group of teams at 12–6 (which we also win 2–1 to 1–5). Looks like we get the 11 seed in any of those scenarios, so I guess it doesn't matter.
So I think the answer is if Davidson wins tonight we're the 11 and play 14-seed URI at 4:30pm and if Davidson loses we're the 12 and play 13-seed UMass (which would win a head-to-head tiebreaker over URI for the 13/14 spots) at 11:30am.
That makes sense to me. Whenever possible, ties should be broken by head-to-head as that's the most direct comparison.
It makes sense, but I actually thought it continued down the slate of top teams until it could be broken.
So, do we prefer 11 or 12 seed?
11-seed against URI would then face the 6-seed. 12-seed against UMass would then face the 5-seed.
We won't know who those teams are until the VCU/GW game is over. If GW wins, they tie Mason at the 5/6 spots at 11–7. They split their head-to-head, so it goes to record against VCU. GW would win that 1–0 to 0–1, so they'd get the 5 and Mason the 6. If GW loses, Mason gets the 5 outright while GW ties Duquesne at the 6/7 spots at 10–8. Duquesne won head-to-head, so they'd get the 6.
So...
- Davidson and GW both win: Spiders are 11 and play 14-seed URI. Winner gets 6-seed Mason.
- Davidson wins, GW loses: Spiders are 11 and play 14-seed URI. Winner gets 6-seed Duquesne.
- Davidson and GW both lose: Spiders are 12 and play 13-seed UMass. Winner gets 5-seed Mason.
I think.
We won't know who those teams are until the VCU/GW game is over. If GW wins, they tie Mason at the 5/6 spots at 11–7. They split their head-to-head, so it goes to record against VCU. GW would win that 1–0 to 0–1, so they'd get the 5 and Mason the 6. If GW loses, Mason gets the 5 outright while GW ties Duquesne at the 6/7 spots at 10–8. Duquesne won head-to-head, so they'd get the 6.
So...
- Davidson and GW both win: Spiders are 11 and play 14-seed URI. Winner gets 6-seed Mason.
- Davidson wins, GW loses: Spiders are 11 and play 14-seed URI. Winner gets 6-seed Duquesne.
- Davidson and GW both lose: Spiders are 12 and play 13-seed UMass. Winner gets 5-seed Mason.
I think.
So, LaSalle just lost to Loyola. They might play them again. Loyola is playing well. I would prefer that we play Rhode Island.
Argh, I had it right before, and then I screwed it up when I went back to try to account for VCU/GW possibilities.
Davidson wins: UR and La Salle tie for 11/12 spots at 7–11. La Salle wins head-to-head and gets the 11-seed. UR gets the 12-seed and faces 13-seed UMass. Winner gets 5-seed Mason and winner of that one gets 4-seed SLU.
Davidson loses: UR, La Salle, and Davidson all tie for 10/11/12 spots at 7–11. Everyone is 1–1 against the group so it goes to descending opponents and La Salle wins with 0–1 vs. VCU while the other two are 0–2. So La Salle gets the 10-seed. Then UR gets the head-to-head over Davidson and takes the 11-seed to face 14-seed URI (which loses head-to-head tiebreaker with UMass at 13/14 spots). Winner gets 6-seed Duquesne and winner of that one gets 3-seed Fordham.
What's crazy is that Davidson is the 12-seed if they lose and the 8-seed if they win. With a loss, they finish at the bottom of a three-way 10/11/12 tiebreaker as outlined above, but if they win and get into a three-way 8/9/10 tiebreaker with Bona and St. Joe's, they win that one since they're 2–0 against that group.
Davidson wins: UR and La Salle tie for 11/12 spots at 7–11. La Salle wins head-to-head and gets the 11-seed. UR gets the 12-seed and faces 13-seed UMass. Winner gets 5-seed Mason and winner of that one gets 4-seed SLU.
Davidson loses: UR, La Salle, and Davidson all tie for 10/11/12 spots at 7–11. Everyone is 1–1 against the group so it goes to descending opponents and La Salle wins with 0–1 vs. VCU while the other two are 0–2. So La Salle gets the 10-seed. Then UR gets the head-to-head over Davidson and takes the 11-seed to face 14-seed URI (which loses head-to-head tiebreaker with UMass at 13/14 spots). Winner gets 6-seed Duquesne and winner of that one gets 3-seed Fordham.
What's crazy is that Davidson is the 12-seed if they lose and the 8-seed if they win. With a loss, they finish at the bottom of a three-way 10/11/12 tiebreaker as outlined above, but if they win and get into a three-way 8/9/10 tiebreaker with Bona and St. Joe's, they win that one since they're 2–0 against that group.
I'll bet you ran this though one of those old computer punch-card readers when we introduced computers on campus. Your deck of cards had a lot of scenarios to punch. Glad you didn't drop the cards on the floor.
This is way too complicated. Since I don't expect to win but I foolishly want to follow the game, I'd like the 4:30 game please.
Playing waaay down in the field regardless of scenario.
Spider Basketball community should expect far more.
More of the same or change?
Spider Basketball community should expect far more.
More of the same or change?
No one in athletic administration will look at this as a failure even though objectively it is. And more importantly, no one is going to make a move on a coach under contract who is recovering from heart surgery. UR fears the optics even in better conditions.
There’s of course some scenario where CM steps down but that seems far fetched.
From JOC article today, this is third consecutive year where we finished below where the conference coaches and select media picked us preseason. That says plenty. Consistently underperforming. Hats off to Hardt and BOT.
Largely agree. Not calling for an unseemly sacking. Mooney is a fine man. Just saying status quo should be unacceptable to the Spider faithful going forward. Fix it or hit the road PDQ.
I’m fine with Mooney getting another year if Hardt is fired now and we hire a real AD for next year. We need a good AD before we hire a new coach anyway.
Why are we talking about the A10 Tourney?!?!?! Did you not see how we lost today? Our season is over, we have no hope. Just save your mooney and go some other year. It isn't worth it to watch our program get embarrassed by whoever we play first.
In the last 12 years they’ve finished higher than their preseason selection only 2 times.
Unfortunately that means nothing to those who it should. Another indicator. All the sellouts are much more important I suppose.
This should be seen as a positive sign that our PR/Media Relations is doing an excellent job promoting us to the preseason selection cabal.
Food for thought, we finished below:
Fordham
Duquesne
GW
St. Joes
And LaSalle
I mean that’s some rough info to swallow.
#12 Spiders vs. #13 Minutemen in the opener at 11:30am Tuesday. 💀
Winner gets Mason.
Winner gets Mason.
I can’t tell if that’s a joke. Starting out with two teams we are collectively 0-3 against this year doesn’t seem terribly good. I’d much rather get the Duquesne/Fordham path.
Maybe he means it's good because we'll get killed and the season will be over by 130 Tuesday and we can all thankfully move on to something else for the next six months...
I also hate this draw for matchups. Fordham was the path we wanted/needed to have any hope.
Yes SG if there was a season where the unproven Spiders could get a top 4 seed this was it being the league weaker than I thought possible. One team did do that.
Dayton Tops Atlantic 10 Men’s Basketball Poll; 23 Players Earn Preseason Honors
BROOKLYN, N.Y. — Dayton has been selected as the Atlantic 10 Conference men’s basketball favorite in the league’s annual preseason poll. The conference announced the poll and preseason all-conference awards Thursday in conjunction with its annual Media Day, held at Barclays Center. The awards...
atlantic10.com
I'm with you here DT, and have been saying this for a few years too. With Hardt in charge, it's not good. Let's say even Mooney decides to retire for health reasons. Hardt would probably have a very mediocre to bad hire. We then have folks saying, see Mooney is good, its just SOOOO hard to win at Richmond, at least Chris knows how to do it every several years, and we have good kids!! Heck, we could be in a position in 4 years where we get Mooney back for another long run. Carry on with your Sunday
11:30 am Tuesday quite possibly the least relevant game time in any sports. Last year we got the evening draw. The 11 seed draw w uri Duq Fordham I agree was ideal no doubt but when u earn the 12 seed u can’t feel unlucky either. Umass is bad we never should have lost. The goo moos r better but it’s not a team we should lose to 3 times in one year. Good excuse to take rest of Wed afternoon off if we get there starting at 2. Then if u make it to Thurs u have a little momentum & got the 1 day break next allowing a reset. Maybe just maybe we can get a lead in these games hit some 3s & play downhill vs the constant mental fatigue playing uphill. Just looking for positives. Of course being eliminated by lunch Tues is a reality but its tourney week & hopefully the team is excited. unlike some others here I want us to do well & win.
