Title IX applies to NIL Payments
- Thread starter SpiderTrap
- Start date
Agree - I would say forget college and start following your local HS team, but NIL is even entering that world in some states. And as soon as 1 state goes with it, the rest will feel they have to follow to keep up.
why would u think we're paying 50k each to 80 football players? Not happening. subtract two zeros. maybe they get $500 or whatever the COA stipend is. It's 1 reason why we moved to Patriot League. This is going to be for mens hoops primarily just like at VCU.
I hope a meaningful portion goes to women’s hoops too. I really do think we have an opportunity to be a consistent top 40 program and top mid major program in the country under Roussell.
So, perhaps our move to the Patriot League for football was more of a response to this than anything else. Assuming that Patriot League schools will be not be as keen on paying its players as some other conferences.
So, maybe we bastardize our football program so we can devote more of our player money to our flagship sports. That is of course sad, but also makes sense on a number of levels.
Or UR decides they want no part of this or that they don't want to try and keep up with everyone else and moves everything to the Patriot League.
Well, they just said that is not their intention. They are paying to play just like the rest who want to compete. The football program was our sacrificial lamb so we could more fully "compete" in MBB.
So how much do we need to compete on the basketball side. If VCU is top of the league and they expect to average 300K per player (that is average, so some will be higher and some lower) - which comes out to about $3 million per year just for basketball if you only pay 10 players - do we really think UR wants to spend millions on paying basketball players?
using Dayton as an example, they had $18.5M in men's basketball revenue in 22-23.
you could argue $3M is still a bargain.
you could argue $3M is still a bargain.
Makes sense for Dayton - they sell out almost all the time up there. But how much profit from that revenue do they clear, cause remember - they have to pay their coaching staff (likely 2 million or more), pay for charter flights, pay the gameday staff?, etc. I assume or hope they make a profit off that 18M, but who knows. But for schools, like UR - who don't turn a profit - would they be willing to add an annual $3M expense line item - Player payments.
Now take out expenses. Revenue is not earnings.
We’re in fantastic shape tho. We have 4 million more than we thought already! Taken from Trap’s fcs football spending account.
I don't know but we never seem to bat an eye when we extend Mooney's 7 figure contract and up his pay.
And no, of course not, we don't really want to spend millions paying basketball players, nor does any college. But that is the reality now, they must. This is what a multi-billion dollar endowment allows us to do; absorb unanticipated costs like this.
Oh no - your in trouble now - you said the E word - ENDOWMENT. You know that can't be touched. All that money is earmarked, and invested, etc. Plus - if we use it and the Endowment goes down - its look really bad when comparing our school to other endowment rich institutions. But lets remember - 3 million to a 2 billion endowment is equal to a rounding error.
There aren't a ton of schools that are going to be able to pay their basketball players $300k apiece indefinitely. Maybe for the first few years, yes. But after that? I just don't see it. I think things will even out to roughly where they were before this all started. The schools with money that play at a high level will just buy the best players from the level below, a few top schools at our level will do the same from the level below us, and everyone else will take whoever is left.
I hope we can stay in that second tier as long as possible.
I hope we can stay in that second tier as long as possible.
From the JOC article at least, sounds like we are committed to be in the range Bernadette predicts, which is $1-3 million.
Me too. Positive sign, though, that UR is determined to be in the A10 and show this kind of commitment. A10 as a whole, I’m sure will also be committed to remain in that second tier just below P5s. So hopefully everyone who remains in the A10 will all be on the same page as far as it comes to this commitment.
With schools being able to donate directly to student athletes, will there be a way that donors can give directly to a sport’s (like women’s lacrosse or men’s basketball) NIL program specific through UR? Similar to what UVA did with the Cav Future.
For instance, every year that we do the UR giving day, athletics is always number one in amount raised and number of donations. Last year, it raised over a million. I wonder if there will be an option that will allow someone, through a UR website, to donate to a specific sports NIL. If so, I have a feeling that will raise a good amount of money.
richmondspiders.com
For instance, every year that we do the UR giving day, athletics is always number one in amount raised and number of donations. Last year, it raised over a million. I wonder if there will be an option that will allow someone, through a UR website, to donate to a specific sports NIL. If so, I have a feeling that will raise a good amount of money.
Spider Athletics Raises Over $1 Million on #URHere Giving Day - University of Richmond Athletics
RICHMOND, Va. — Richmond Athletics raised more than $1,000,000 to support Spider student-athletes during the University of Richmond's sixth annual #URHere Gi...
lol, yeah I know revenue is not earnings.
you think Dayton men's basketball has anywhere close to $18M in expenses???
basketball is cash positive. it shouldn't be a basketball program's job to fund an entire athletic department.
They can from the endowment what they need. They are not going to pull 3 million specifically to pay the men's basketball players, but maybe they just pull an extra 3 million for University operations next year, and then we free up say 3 million in other university operations for our athletic department. We can move the shells around enough to cover this
idk, 10M maybe more. who cares these schools have a way of funny accounting anyway, their expenses will often exactly match their revenue if u looked at a P&L statement. Dayton athletic budget was 36 mil. I didn't really see them bringing in too much revenue outside hoops. they'll have some contributions but nothing to make up that loss. so 18M doesn't cut it. u don't think it's bball job or football job depending on the school to fund the rest of athletic dept. I get that. but that's the way it is. they subsidize others, and shortfalls made up by school operating budget, the govt, student fees, etc.
I'm not saying we can't play the game. I'm not a big fan of it, but the alternative sucks. So we're in the game - until that changes - let's go for it. Like 97 we can easily very easily get $ of out of endowment and move it around for hoops...more funny accounting.
$10M+ seems like a good guess. Five years ago, Dayton spent $7.4M on men's basketball according to this piece, so with some inflation and likely salary increases, I'd imagine it's in that range now.
Free up 3 million in university operations - that would mean some decent layoffs and expense cuts, which I think some professor or teacher will pick up on pretty quickly - "Hey, your asking us to make Budget cuts over here in the Leadership school and in turn, the freshman basketball player sitting in the back row of my class and half asleep most of the time is making twice my salary?"
Simple solution - just find about 50 more students (should not be hard with our low acceptance rate) who are willing to pay full price at about 70K tuition. This means we reject about 50 kids who require financial aid, and replace them with wealthy kids who can pay - but its all about money and this would be much easier to hide.
With schools being able to donate directly to student athletes, will there be a way that donors can give directly to a sport’s (like women’s lacrosse or men’s basketball) NIL program specific through UR? Similar to what UVA did with the Cav Future.
For instance, every year that we do the UR giving day, athletics is always number one in amount raised and number of donations. Last year, it raised over a million. I wonder if there will be an option that will allow someone, through a UR website, to donate to a specific sports NIL. If so, I have a feeling that will raise a good amount of money.
Spider Athletics Raises Over $1 Million on #URHere Giving Day - University of Richmond Athletics
RICHMOND, Va. — Richmond Athletics raised more than $1,000,000 to support Spider student-athletes during the University of Richmond's sixth annual #URHere Gi...
At some point, people are going to just say this is stupid and not contribute in that way. If I have the option of putting an extra $100 in my kids' 529 or paying a kid who is already on full scholarship that gets all their meals paid for, travels by charter plane, and a cost of attendance stipend to come to UR and learn to not chase rebounds - I'm dropping it in my 529.
wow. is that what you think about our student athletes?
I'd venture to say they work harder than the typical student, and do so on top of a grueling, physically demanding time-suck of a schedule. their season pretty much never ends. they can't get an internship because they come back to school in June and stay until August. winter break? they get 3 days. spring break? nah. a semester "studying" abroad like so many students do? not an option.
plus what they do on the court brings more revenue and notoriety to the school than pretty much any regular student. but yeah, let's assume they're all just dumb jocks.
I am not saying there are all dumb jocks, I was speaking from the administration point of view - who has made it clear based on past decisions that they don't want student-athletes dumbing down the overall student population. So now will you not only have "dumb jocks" in the classroom, but rich dumb jocks who probably will make more than half (if not more) of the faculty and staff on campus.
well, that's a good lesson in economics. if you're really good at something and create revenue for a company (or a school), you'll get paid a lot. if you're on the expense side of the ledger ... you won't. students need to know this.
How is it any different than people who want to donate to athletics. Money going to NIL vs. other athletics related expenses like travel/operating expenses? The fans who typically donate to that stuff is the pool I’m drawing from. Obviously there are a lot of people who don’t donate to their university athletic department for similar reasons you alluded to. But for the fans who do, then I see having an option to donate to NIL directly through the school as a plus.
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Going on a slight tangent, but ultimately related, that’s a reason why I don’t get why a school would ever want to be snobby towards athletics. Isn’t the point of a university to help a student fulfill their dreams of what they want to pursue? Also, doesn’t every college dream of having one of their alums become a notable person in society?
I am sure Davidson is loving the fact that Steph Curry is an alum for donations and national exposure reasons.
So why should someone who wants to primarily pursue athletics at a University while getting an education to support that (for instance many leadership majors from student-athletes, which directly correlates) be scoffed at versus any other reason a student pursues an education/major. This is the kind of elitist mentality I hope UR does not have. There are many ways someone can be successful in life and as a university our goal should be to develop people holistically in pursuit of those endeavors.
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I am capitalist and low tax guy at heart, but this crap has to stop.
One premise of the tax code is that items are deductible only if ordinary and necessary.
Make any donations to NIL by individuals non deductible for tax purposes.
Tax the scholarship and NIL money that an athlete receives as ordinary income.
In addition, tax all money that Universities use for NIL money at 100%
I am not holding my breath on this but, the pool of money would reduced significantly and would help in reducing government deficits.
One premise of the tax code is that items are deductible only if ordinary and necessary.
Make any donations to NIL by individuals non deductible for tax purposes.
Tax the scholarship and NIL money that an athlete receives as ordinary income.
In addition, tax all money that Universities use for NIL money at 100%
I am not holding my breath on this but, the pool of money would reduced significantly and would help in reducing government deficits.
agreed. but personally I don't think any donations should be tax deductible. if you want to give, give. if you don't, don't. but it shouldn't affect your tax liability.
I agree about NIL and I'm pretty sure that's already taxable. but you can't tax scholarships. a kid from a poor family gets a free ride, and you're going to hit him with a $20,000 tax bill? he never touched that money. that's not right.
agreed and I assume it will be.
You misunderstood what I was saying. They pull an extra 3 million for university operations or for inflationary adjustments if you will from the endowment, and then that extra 3 million gets redistributed through internal accounting and all of a sudden we have 3 million over in the athletic department to pay our student athletes. Just let the accountants be creative. So, no program is getting cut in this scenario.
But you know the white ivory tower folks are gonna get their panties all in our uproar if we pull the 3 million to pay basketball players and this is a way to do it more subtly and still get the same end result.
We could also do what you are saying in admissions but I'm sure we have parameters for how many students get admitted from each income category, so that would mean getting our admissions folks in on this and you know how that will go.
well remember some states r trying to make that go away, for state income. & on federal maybe they add it to the "tips" category.
it was clear. yep just take extra from the normal endowment spend. no cuts. can't tell me our endowment can't make that work if we're really committed to this. heck soon u can replace the SMC guy & much of SMC staff with AI and lower cost employees & use that couple mil savings.
Bur regarding the admissions idk about income but I've long advocated we can actually afford to grow our undergrad enrollment. more revenue there, comes with costs of course too. but we could grow 10%. Yeah maybe it takes putting an extra floor on the dorms. but we have the infrastructure/space imo. SF I'm sure is going to have reaasons why it's impossible but I won't believe them. But I know it won't happen just I'd like to see it. 300 students who like sports, half from Virginia!
Also the whole dumbing down of the students w athletes I will back up Trap on that part. Not to such extreme but there was that feeling from admin. It was articulated. But I heard it straight from Ed Ayers in person. When he was questioned on soccer cuts and fact they had high team GPA, he scoffed & said not as high as regular student body. I was like this guy is our President? So that came from another admin - Ayers - but I'm sorry it's usually more of the same that's how we operate and I don't think Hallock is particularly different.
Yes. Honestly, I can't understand how anybody but the uber-rich can justify contributing to NIL collectives, considering all the important causes out there.
Not to mention the fact that donations to the school are (mostly) tax deductible and the NIL payments are not.
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Respectfully, I know this is not your intention and I don’t mean for this to sound harsh, but this gives me holier than thou vibes. People have every right to choose how to spend their money without someone questioning whether it could’ve gone to a better cause.
Yes, donating to NIL may not have the same level of moral significance as donating to cancer research or countless of other wonderful organizations. However, many people can still justify that donating to NIL is an important cause to them, to a degree, because it’s wanting to see the school they are a fan of, and have pride in, excel and represent itself well. I imagine most people donate money that is within their means and likely to multiple organizes/causes.
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