Thinking about red shirts and wondered...
- Thread starter urmite
- Start date
so to me the whole "5th year graduates taking themselves to another school" trend is a reason NOT to redshirt kids. You pay 'em to develop etc. in your program, getting only 3 years for 4 invested and if they don't work out you have the kid for a 5th year and if it does work out, he may very well go someplace new and they get a virtually risk free one year and it the players best , fully developed year etc. Thanks but no thanks!
Never gave thought about this issue, but I also vote for CM to stop doing it unless you project the player to be a 7-8-9 guy at best in the rotation so the loss isn't major. Posted before we all realize football does it so players can get physically bigger and stronger to handle the vigor of major college foots. Don't see where good bball teams need it unless you think the player might grow 3-4" lol. Going by some posts on this forum, we do seem to have our share of strong athlete types on the squad. Unfortunately more than we would like can't quite yet grasp the art of effectively shooting the ball.
If a player is going to play under 3 minutes a game there is no reason not to redshirt them. So they might only play for three years then transfer, you were basically only getting 3 years out of them anyway if they didn't redshirt. You might get an extra year if you do redshirt them though.
Red shirting becomes a moot point if you recruit players who are able to compete and contribute at the A-10 level as true freshmen...
from time to time we've been able to recruit these types of players in the past, but not so much lately....
if we are more effective as recruiters we won't have to worry so much about this...
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from time to time we've been able to recruit these types of players in the past, but not so much lately....
if we are more effective as recruiters we won't have to worry so much about this...
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The problem is you can only realistically play about 9 guys in your rotation. That means 4 guys are going to be on the bench. If all of your freshman are constantly good enough to push your upperclassman to the bench, then you are somehow losing all your good upperclassmen (which is a problem unless you are Kentucky.)
Mooney's teams usually have a freshman play 10+ minutes a game. It didn't happen last year, but that was the exception not the rule (the only years a freshman hasn't played 10+ minutes for Mooney were in 2010 and 2015.) If you have more than one or two freshman playing 10+ minutes every year you are either doing something very wrong (since your upperclassmen aren't as good as freshmen or are constantly leaving the program) or you are Kentucky.
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At some level though - do you as a coach need to find time for some frosh, and it might only be 1-2 a year so that you can help them develop and be ready the following season. I agree if a guy is only going to play 3-5 minutes a night - probably not worth it and you might be better off redshirting. But is it possible to strategically find that same player 8-10 minutes a night on average (some nights more, some less depending on the game) to get him ready for the next season as well. I think that has to run through coaches minds as well.
I am not saying you play a guy who has no right being on the floor and sacrifice the good of the team for one guy. But if you can play a guy 5 minutes a night - can you or should you look for ways to get him up to 9-10 minutes a night, which gives them twice as much experience and some good game action to get them a foundation to build on.
I just think outside of Cline, who was a transfer and not a frosh redshirt - and we will have to see with Wood, but he falls into same bucket as Cline - we don't tend to develop RS frosh. They redshirt their first year, and then when they are eligible to play the following year - they still play and look like frosh - even though they have a full year of practice under their belt.
I am not saying you play a guy who has no right being on the floor and sacrifice the good of the team for one guy. But if you can play a guy 5 minutes a night - can you or should you look for ways to get him up to 9-10 minutes a night, which gives them twice as much experience and some good game action to get them a foundation to build on.
I just think outside of Cline, who was a transfer and not a frosh redshirt - and we will have to see with Wood, but he falls into same bucket as Cline - we don't tend to develop RS frosh. They redshirt their first year, and then when they are eligible to play the following year - they still play and look like frosh - even though they have a full year of practice under their belt.
if we are more effective as recruiters we won't have to worry so much about this...
Agreed. Yes, we only run a 9 man rotation, but you would be a damn fool to not have a couple guys who can meaningful contribute to play besides those 9. The past 2 years, we basically were caught with our pants down when injuries struck us because we didn't have enough guys who could step in and play, whether that was a redshirt reason (Diekvoss, Friendshuh), or simply because they weren't very good (Singleton, Smithen). And that is why then you have to play the Deion Taylors of the world for 30 minutes per game, cause you have no better options.
We can only run a 7-8 man rotation because we have whiffed on about half of our recruits the past few years. Recruit better and the reason for redshirting disappears, cause you want these new guys getting game experience.
Agreed. Yes, we only run a 9 man rotation, but you would be a damn fool to not have a couple guys who can meaningful contribute to play besides those 9. The past 2 years, we basically were caught with our pants down when injuries struck us because we didn't have enough guys who could step in and play, whether that was a redshirt reason (Diekvoss, Friendshuh), or simply because they weren't very good (Singleton, Smithen). And that is why then you have to play the Deion Taylors of the world for 30 minutes per game, cause you have no better options.
We can only run a 7-8 man rotation because we have whiffed on about half of our recruits the past few years. Recruit better and the reason for redshirting disappears, cause you want these new guys getting game experience.
Geez, would love for some incoming freshmen to put the upper class guys on the bench, that would be my goal.
I would like it to, it just isn't sustainable. It would mean you have to recruit substantially better and better every year, which is impossible.
If you have 13 scholarship players on a team, unless a transfer is sitting out a year, you are going to have probably at least 3 players who are not going to see much playing time. That's a reality. If players were realistic, they'd realize that unless they're truly phenomenal, minutes will be limited the first year, and quite possibly the second year. Players are just coming in, with unrealistic expectations, and the transfer rates are becoming epidemic. I certainly don't agree that you should be able to recruit players, who can play right away, replacing older, stronger, more experienced players. It will happen once in a while, but won't be the norm.
and if it was the norm, people here would complain that we did a bad job recruiting the older player!
if you have 13 active, the top 8-9 play and the other 4-5 sit. if those 4-5 are freshmen we can say they aren't ready. if they're not freshmen, then they were misses. and that's the same in every program (except the Kentucky's as mentioned above) but it's a lose/lose for Mooney with some posters around here.
if you have 13 active, the top 8-9 play and the other 4-5 sit. if those 4-5 are freshmen we can say they aren't ready. if they're not freshmen, then they were misses. and that's the same in every program (except the Kentucky's as mentioned above) but it's a lose/lose for Mooney with some posters around here.
I'm a believer that red shirting a guy doesn't mean much downside. As Fan2011 pointed out, activating them for 2 mins/gm isn't meaningful...it's garbage time or to give someone a breather.
I'd rather have them get stronger and learn our system. If you end up needing them, you can always activate them later.
I'd rather have them get stronger and learn our system. If you end up needing them, you can always activate them later.
We don't exactly have a great track record in the Mooney regime with players who redshirt getting substantially better as a result of that year off. I guess Trey will be the test case this year.
All the others didn't exactly light it up in year 5; Sparrow, C Smith, Duinker and then you have Smithen, Diekvoss and ANO.
All the others didn't exactly light it up in year 5; Sparrow, C Smith, Duinker and then you have Smithen, Diekvoss and ANO.
Several weeks ago the phone rang from the University of Richmond. It was Trey Davis thanking me for my Spider Club donation. Told him I really appreciated the fight that he and the team showed. He said he was excited for 2016. I don't think he will be leaving.
