Texas Tech observations

[97spiderfan]

A couple observations from yesterday:

1. We did not lose the game because our poor FT shooting, we lost the game because we absolutely could not stop Texas Tech defensively, particularly inside. When we did manage to get a stop, Texas Tech crashed the boards and got an offensive rebound. Even if we shot 100% from the stripe, we still would have lost because our defense was unable to stop them.

2. The whole theory that rebounding is not that important is hilarious. When you lose the rebounding battle by 23, you aren't winning basketball games. Texas Tech also had 10 fast break points, so the whole lose the rebounding battle is OK as long as you prevent transition scores didn't work very well this game.

3. Trey Davis played 31 points scored 1 point and grabbed zero boards (he continues to play long stretches of game as the invisible man on the court). He's out there but sure as heck he isn't doing much. Deion scored 2 points and had 2 rebounds in 28 minutes. When you play a big game on the road, you need your seniors to step up. Is anyone surprised at all by these lines at this point in their careers?

4. On a positive side, Khwan had a great game. 13 points and most of his scores were on lay-ups after he beat his man off the dribble. Anyone else want to see Khwan start over Trey? I know that isn't happening though. He is playing starter minutes though.

5. The biggest concern from this game is the injury to SDJ. Terry is our best player but SDJ is our most critical player. The loss of him for any significant time would be pretty devastating. I don't see us beating St. Joes if SDJ is out.

The one thing I will say about this game is that we did not quit. In Florida, we didn't show up and then folded like a cheap suit as soon Florida showed some fight. I thought our energy level was great throughout, we just got flat out beat.

As for Texas Tech, they are 10-1, they returned all 5 starters, we played them in their building, they have a great coach, they are good. Yeah I would have liked to get this win and felt we could have won this game, but geez, losing to them does not mean we suck. We still are in pretty good shape if we can perform in the league this year.

 

[spider23]

Did Shawndre leave the game and not come back, or was he very hobbled? Did not see the game. I agree with 97, with our lack of another consistent/proven guard that can provide points (and leadership, ballhandling, etc.) we are in trouble if he is out, or hobbled.

 

[3genspider]

A couple observations from yesterday:

1. We did not lose the game because our poor FT shooting, we lost the game because we absolutely could not stop Texas Tech defensively, particularly inside. When we did manage to get a stop, Texas Tech crashed the boards and got an offensive rebound. Even if we shot 100% from the stripe, we still would have lost because our defense was unable to stop them.

2. The whole theory that rebounding is not that important is hilarious. When you lose the rebounding battle by 23, you aren't winning basketball games. Texas Tech also had 10 fast break points, so the whole lose the rebounding battle is OK as long as you prevent transition scores didn't work very well this game.

3. Trey Davis played 31 points scored 1 point and grabbed zero boards (he continues to play long stretches of game as the invisible man on the court). He's out there but sure as heck he isn't doing much. Deion scored 2 points and had 2 rebounds in 28 minutes. When you play a big game on the road, you need your seniors to step up. Is anyone surprised at all by these lines at this point in their careers?

4. On a positive side, Khwan had a great game. 13 points and most of his scores were on lay-ups after he beat his man off the dribble. Anyone else want to see Khwan start over Trey? I know that isn't happening though. He is playing starter minutes though.

5. The biggest concern from this game is the injury to SDJ. Terry is our best player but SDJ is our most critical player. The loss of him for any significant time would be pretty devastating. I don't see us beating St. Joes if SDJ is out.

The one thing I will say about this game is that we did not quit. In Florida, we didn't show up and then folded like a cheap suit as soon Florida showed some fight. I thought our energy level was great throughout, we just got flat out beat.

As for Texas Tech, they are 10-1, they returned all 5 starters, we played them in their building, they have a great coach, they are good. Yeah I would have liked to get this win and felt we could have won this game, but geez, losing to them does not mean we suck. We still are in pretty good shape if we can perform in the league this year.

You are right, no one thing caused us to lose, but one in particular prevented us from keeping the game interesting--Free throws. We were 10-21 from the line, and missed the front end of at least three (probably more) 1+1's. If we did shoot 100% the game is tied. Point being FT shooting is absolutely critical and we absolutely must shoot a significantly higher percentage to have at chance at being successful. As it stands now, sending us to the line is like a turnover 50% of the time.

 

[3genspider]

Did Shawndre leave the game and not come back, or was he very hobbled? Did not see the game. I agree with 97, with our lack of another consistent/proven guard that can provide points (and leadership, ballhandling, etc.) we are in trouble if he is out, or hobbled.

He was assisted off the court and didn't return. No report on status at this time, but quote in paper this morning said no reason to believe it is anything more than a sprain. But it looked like bad ankle roll on the TV replay. Unfortunately sprains can nag you for weeks, just ask Seth Fisher.

 

[sdspider]

The poor start really hurt us, terrible shooting I think we were 1-6 or something like that. Already dug a deep hole and then TA goes to the bench for most of the first half with foul trouble and Cline as well for periods. I'm still pissed because this game was winnable and we messed it up. Yes our D didn't help inside and we shot terribly from the line, but that horrid start and foul trouble really killed us. Too much to overcome and like others said, TD and DT did not step up when TA and TJ went out. I guess we can't expect them to as we know what they are.

 

[97spiderfan]

3gen, I'm not going to argue that our FT shooting was terrible and will lose us games if it doesn't improve. I just thought the our defense and the ease at which we allowed them to score yesterday was a bigger issue in why we lost.

As for SDJ, it was not pretty to see on the replay, they never are. Did anyone see if he walked off or had to be assisted off the court. They cut to commercial when he got hurt and when they returned he was already off the court.

 

[TBSpyder]

Another game where it is evident that CM isn't concerned about developing any of the younger players. If SDJ can't play Saturday, who else can play? Fore is the only other guard with any real playing experience. What happened to Friendshuh? He's now almost as invisible as KoVien.

Terry is the only big who is capable of physical play, and he was overwhelmed in the beginning of the game. I think it was his frustration that led to the 3 fouls in first half. He seemed more settled in 2nd half, and was more of himself.

Next year, we have TJ and Marshall in frontcourt, and SDJ and Fore in backcourt. I hope our freshmen are all we think they are, as we're going to need them to have big roles.

Every team we face this year, is going to try and take advantage of the fact that we are so thin. Terry is our big weapon, if they can take him out of his game, we're very vulnerable.

 

[MolivaManiac]

As for SDJ, it was not pretty to see on the replay, they never are. Did anyone see if he walked off or had to be assisted off the court. They cut to commercial when he got hurt and when they returned he was already off the court.

I was listening on the radio. Bob said he was 'assisted off', which probably isn't a good sign.

Let's hope it's a low ankle sprain. If it's a high one, it could be mid-February before we see him again, which would be pretty devastating to our season.

 

[urfan1]

at that point I think they would have assisted him regardless of whether he wanted assistance or not. But I saw the replay and it was not pretty, SDJ was giving it his all to get into position and the ankle rolled, he was obviously in pain. Will wait and see, I doubt they will know much until the swelling goes down, or not.

 

[97spiderfan]

I would imagine if SDJ is unable to go on Saturday, that Fore starts and Jesse and Julius will get much more time than they have been getting. Ankles are weird, you can roll one and be out for 6 weeks and you can also roll one and it look just as bad, ice and tape it up and be back the next game. Having done both, the pain factor is pretty high either way, so I'm not too caught up in the fact that SDJ was in a lot of pain, because spraining your ankle hurts like a b*tch.

 

[64Spider]

Additional thoughts:
TA and TJ had several phantom calls which probably lead to frustration.
We will never win with TA and TJ limited to 13 minutes total.
Players obviously on same medication as coach.

 

[Eight Legger]

I may be imagining it, but it just feels to me that we never approach games like this as if we SHOULD win them. Why couldn't we jump for defensive rebounds? Why couldn't we box out? Why didn't we come out aggressively from the start? Why didn't Mooney bench guys who were being lazy and replace them with guys who wanted it?

The sense is that whether we win or lose games like this, it's ok. Maybe that's not being fair, but it just seems that way in most of these type of games. Texas Tech is a nice team, but by no means a dominant one that we couldn't handle. If we played them here, I would expect about an 8-point win for us. They did everything they could to hand us opportunities for the first 10 minutes, and we refused every one, then fell behind by too much to make it a game again.

In order to become the program we want to be, we can't keep having blowout/non-competitiveroad losses to teams that are similar to us. It just can't happen. We should be better than this.

At least I know that we will come out Saturday and take St. Joe's apart, because that is how we do things.

 

[SpiderGuy]

A couple observations from yesterday:

1. We did not lose the game because our poor FT shooting, we lost the game because we absolutely could not stop Texas Tech defensively, particularly inside. When we did manage to get a stop, Texas Tech crashed the boards and got an offensive rebound. Even if we shot 100% from the stripe, we still would have lost because our defense was unable to stop them.

2. The whole theory that rebounding is not that important is hilarious. When you lose the rebounding battle by 23, you aren't winning basketball games. Texas Tech also had 10 fast break points, so the whole lose the rebounding battle is OK as long as you prevent transition scores didn't work very well this game.

3. Trey Davis played 31 points scored 1 point and grabbed zero boards (he continues to play long stretches of game as the invisible man on the court). He's out there but sure as heck he isn't doing much. Deion scored 2 points and had 2 rebounds in 28 minutes. When you play a big game on the road, you need your seniors to step up. Is anyone surprised at all by these lines at this point in their careers?

4. On a positive side, Khwan had a great game. 13 points and most of his scores were on lay-ups after he beat his man off the dribble. Anyone else want to see Khwan start over Trey? I know that isn't happening though. He is playing starter minutes though.

5. The biggest concern from this game is the injury to SDJ. Terry is our best player but SDJ is our most critical player. The loss of him for any significant time would be pretty devastating. I don't see us beating St. Joes if SDJ is out.

The one thing I will say about this game is that we did not quit. In Florida, we didn't show up and then folded like a cheap suit as soon Florida showed some fight. I thought our energy level was great throughout, we just got flat out beat.

As for Texas Tech, they are 10-1, they returned all 5 starters, we played them in their building, they have a great coach, they are good. Yeah I would have liked to get this win and felt we could have won this game, but geez, losing to them does not mean we suck. We still are in pretty good shape if we can perform in the league this year.

Spot on analysis. You certainly & accurately framed the game I watched.

It baffles me how soft our inside defensive presence is (see games vs. Florida, JMU, Tex. Tech, etc.) . This is not new this year. Granted - there are games we show inside presence, but they are the exception. It's pretty evident that we have several 6'7" or more players who pretty much play like guards or the 3 spot and aren't banging under the boards on defense. I'm thinking this is by design...jeez??? The 2nd chance points we gave away last night were pretty much the game differential. I realize same could be said of missed foul shots, etc.

The game plan & scouting report for any team playing Richmond is take it to the paint & if you miss the shot, there's a pretty good chance to get offensive rebounds & an opportunity to score. I guess there's no chance of breaking this pattern because that would constitute a change in approach.

 

[bongturk]

A couple observations from yesterday:

1. We did not lose the game because our poor FT shooting, we lost the game because we absolutely could not stop Texas Tech defensively, particularly inside. When we did manage to get a stop, Texas Tech crashed the boards and got an offensive rebound. Even if we shot 100% from the stripe, we still would have lost because our defense was unable to stop them.

2. The whole theory that rebounding is not that important is hilarious. When you lose the rebounding battle by 23, you aren't winning basketball games. Texas Tech also had 10 fast break points, so the whole lose the rebounding battle is OK as long as you prevent transition scores didn't work very well this game.

3. Trey Davis played 31 points scored 1 point and grabbed zero boards (he continues to play long stretches of game as the invisible man on the court). He's out there but sure as heck he isn't doing much. Deion scored 2 points and had 2 rebounds in 28 minutes. When you play a big game on the road, you need your seniors to step up. Is anyone surprised at all by these lines at this point in their careers?

4. On a positive side, Khwan had a great game. 13 points and most of his scores were on lay-ups after he beat his man off the dribble. Anyone else want to see Khwan start over Trey? I know that isn't happening though. He is playing starter minutes though.

5. The biggest concern from this game is the injury to SDJ. Terry is our best player but SDJ is our most critical player. The loss of him for any significant time would be pretty devastating. I don't see us beating St. Joes if SDJ is out.

The one thing I will say about this game is that we did not quit. In Florida, we didn't show up and then folded like a cheap suit as soon Florida showed some fight. I thought our energy level was great throughout, we just got flat out beat.

As for Texas Tech, they are 10-1, they returned all 5 starters, we played them in their building, they have a great coach, they are good. Yeah I would have liked to get this win and felt we could have won this game, but geez, losing to them does not mean we suck. We still are in pretty good shape if we can perform in the league this year.

 

[bongturk]

Very good analysis. Would the big guy have changed the outcome? Probably not, but he might have prevented one or two of the fouls on Allen or Cline. Would he have stopped all of their easy interior scoring? no, but he might have grabbed a couple of defensive rebounds. Your descriptions of the two "defensive specialists" Davis and Taylor are the rule rather than the exception. Best example was Taylor standing there with his hands straight up and the tech guy just dribbled up to him and went right around him for an uncontested layup. Davis just isn't a scorer and doesn't really do enough to offset that lack when our normal scorers aren't scoring. Why he puts these other guys in for a minute or two and then takes them out if they haven't scored ten or fifteen points is a mystery to me. It also seems that at Princeton you can only play one offensive and one defensive system. At least that appears to be all that "the coach" learned there. If a team has FOUR uncontested ally-oop dunks maybe the defense needs to be changed.
Hope Shandre is ok. He was one of the few bright spots along with Fore who played a very good game. It is interesting that the non starting guard with the most minutes off the bench is finally starting to really contribute in a meaningful way. Will this change the starters? I doubt it.

 

[TBSpyder]

ANO was never as good as he thought he was. In some ways, he was more effective as a freshman than as a senior. He relied too much on talent, and didn't develop his game, year after year. He would have helped our team this year, and especially against Texas Tech. It wasn't coaching, it was ANO, and it shows now at Pitt, where he is a non-factor.

We do need an assistant coach, who knows how to play with physicality inside the paint. I'm surprised that we didn't add Geriot to our staff to do that.

 

[SpiderK]

You can't look at the final score and say 47% free throw shooting didn't hurt you. Good FT shooting keeps you in the game and puts pressure on the other team. Makes the other team think twice before fouling. Totally changes the complexion of the game if you make your free throws!!!!!

 

[SpiderK]

ANO was never as good as he thought he was. In some ways, he was more effective as a freshman than as a senior. He relied too much on talent, and didn't develop his game, year after year. He would have helped our team this year, and especially against Texas Tech. It wasn't coaching, it was ANO, and it shows now at Pitt, where he is a non-factor.

We do need an assistant coach, who knows how to play with physicality inside the paint. I'm surprised that we didn't add Geriot to our staff to do that.

ANO was just LAZY!! Pure and simple.

 

[SpiderTrap]

A couple observations from yesterday:

1. We did not lose the game because our poor FT shooting, we lost the game because we absolutely could not stop Texas Tech defensively, particularly inside. When we did manage to get a stop, Texas Tech crashed the boards and got an offensive rebound. Even if we shot 100% from the stripe, we still would have lost because our defense was unable to stop them.

2. The whole theory that rebounding is not that important is hilarious. When you lose the rebounding battle by 23, you aren't winning basketball games. Texas Tech also had 10 fast break points, so the whole lose the rebounding battle is OK as long as you prevent transition scores didn't work very well this game.

3. Trey Davis played 31 points scored 1 point and grabbed zero boards (he continues to play long stretches of game as the invisible man on the court). He's out there but sure as heck he isn't doing much. Deion scored 2 points and had 2 rebounds in 28 minutes. When you play a big game on the road, you need your seniors to step up. Is anyone surprised at all by these lines at this point in their careers?

4. On a positive side, Khwan had a great game. 13 points and most of his scores were on lay-ups after he beat his man off the dribble. Anyone else want to see Khwan start over Trey? I know that isn't happening though. He is playing starter minutes though.

5. The biggest concern from this game is the injury to SDJ. Terry is our best player but SDJ is our most critical player. The loss of him for any significant time would be pretty devastating. I don't see us beating St. Joes if SDJ is out.

The one thing I will say about this game is that we did not quit. In Florida, we didn't show up and then folded like a cheap suit as soon Florida showed some fight. I thought our energy level was great throughout, we just got flat out beat.

As for Texas Tech, they are 10-1, they returned all 5 starters, we played them in their building, they have a great coach, they are good. Yeah I would have liked to get this win and felt we could have won this game, but geez, losing to them does not mean we suck. We still are in pretty good shape if we can perform in the league this year.

Good analysis. Agree with the free throw shooting, it did not lose the game for us, but it might have kept it closer.

When your two best big guys - Cline and Allen get into foul trouble, there is not much we can do. But I would expect teams in the A10 to follow a similar game plan. Everyone knows TJ is not good on defense, so teams will go right at him. I also expect teams to attack Allen as well to try and get him off the floor - so he will need to be aware of this.

2 key takeaways from this game - 1 already mentioned, the injury to ShawnDre could be bad. He might be back for St. Joes - but probably not near 100%. And with our schedule of St. Joes, then URI and Fordham on the road - 3 games in 8 days. 2) Road games. Two big road games on our OOC and we lose big to Florida, and lose to Texas Tech. We did get a win with a neutral site vs.California (following loss to WVU) and beat a Wake Forest team that has surprised so far, but will have to wait and see how the ACC slate pans out to call a solid win. With A10 road games at URI, Fordham, GW. Bonnies, St. Louis, etc. We can't afford to be weak on the road once again. NCAA teams are strong on the road - we don't need to be perfect, but we can't have a losing record on the road.

 

[SpiderRick]

Haven't had a good road team since 2011

 

[Spideroldie]

My evaluation of this game is 100% contingent upon SDJ's ability to recover fairly quickly from his injury. If he can come back quickly, this game can be put into the rear-view mirror. If not, this was a devastating loss. The game is only important if it has a residual impact on the remainder of our season.
I thought that the game was lost with a great big assist from the refs, who came up with way too many "phantom foul" calls, against both Terry and TJ, and we could not afford to lose that many minutes from our two key inside players. It is also likely that the 7 or so turnovers by TJ were affected by the weather delays, and him not being able to fly in to Lubbock with the team. He had to be playing on 2-3 hours of sleep. Bad reffing and a very bad break with the weather were the keys. I just hope that we don't compound things with a bad break in terms of the injury to SDJ. The season's future forecast will hinge largely on his medical report, so my prayers are with him. If he is OK, we can learn from the game and move on... With SDJ we can still make it to the dance. Without him that hill will be a steep one to climb.

 

[97spiderfan]

TJ gets a lot of fouls called him because he is very "handsy" and doesn't move his feet very well on defense. They seem ticky tacky to me too, but he picks these fouls nearly every game, so at some point, I stop blaming the refs for it and start looking for ways for TJ to adjust how he plays defense.

On a broader level, you have to be able to play through questionable calls. I hate using calls as an excuse at all for losing games. Unless it is a situation like the D-Will situation a few years ago. refs don't win or lose games for you. You have calls go against you and calls go for you, happens every game. Got to overcome that.

 

[MrTbone]

Referees have a propensity to even up fouls, even where it's undeserved. We would be well-served in some instances to pick up more fouls if we can spread them around, at least they would be deserved.

To 97's point, refereeing rarely determines the outcome of the game. Impacts flow, yes, etc. I think this was mostly a bad shooting night for us compounded by having two strong players for us ride a lot of pine with the other starters not really stepping up. Trey and Deion have to shoulder more of the effort in games where this happens, similar to the Wake game.

Hopefully we have a short memory and show better on the road going forward.

 

[keefusb]

The biggest problem we had in the game was giving up so many easy offensive rebounds. Texas Tech's second (and third) chance put-backs were the major factor in our loss. We should be able to fight through a bad shooting night and win against most, if not all of the teams we play. One way to do that is to keep the opposition off of the offensive glass.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Overall - the Texas Tech loss does not hurt our NCAA resume. It certainly would have helped, but with wins over UNI, Cal, and Wake (if they can play well in the ACC) - UR has put itself in position for an NCAA bid with a solid A10 showing. I think we need to be in the top 4 of the league to have a shot, preferably the top 3.

The biggest issue will the injury to ShawnDre. St. Joes will play tough on Saturday, and assuming Bembry and Allen cancel each other out, since they are both top players in the league playing about the same position, the key will be who steps up as the number 2 in this game to help their team. Normally we would think ShawnDre, but if he is unavailable, it could be a problem. Then travel to URI, which is always tough and then Fordham, who will be a tough out this year under Neubauer. We need to go at least 2-1 in this three game stretch. We do that, without Shawndre 100%, then things are looking good.

 

[SpiderGuy]

The biggest problem we had in the game was giving up so many easy offensive rebounds. Texas Tech's second (and third) chance put-backs were the major factor in our loss. We should be able to fight through a bad shooting night and win against most, if not all of the teams we play. One way to do that is to keep the opposition off of the offensive glass.

Yes, but how many years has this been going on? I just don't see that changing under the current philosophy.

I've said it before, but it seems for the most part that our big guys are recruited as shooters first. The inside defense & rebounding are typically weak under CM. Is this acceptable or a formula for success? I don't think so, but others will argue to the contrary by talking about lots of wins and NIT bids (not NCAA bids as should be reasonably expected every so many years). Maybe I'm old school and too much on fundamentals, but I like to see 6'7" guys and taller banging and fighting under the boards. Yes, it's nice to have big guys shooting threes but not at the expense of giving away more points on weak inside defense & letting other teams dominate us & usually doubling us on second chance points. We've seen it too many times already this year starting with JMU.

Conference play starts Saturday, and there are several physical teams in the A10. These seem to be the teams that present the biggest problems for our style. Oh yes, if we shoot close to 50%, then that balances off being dominated physically, but history shows that we're not going to shoot that night in & night out. The Texas Tech game was a classic example of poor shooting combined with being dominated physically. The end result of that formula should surprise nobody.

 

[PhiDeltaSpider]

Yes, but how many years has this been going on? I just don't see that changing under the current philosophy.

I've said it before, but it seems for the most part that our big guys are recruited as shooters first. The inside defense & rebounding are typically weak under CM. Is this acceptable or a formula for success? I don't think so, but others will argue to the contrary by talking about lots of wins and NIT bids (not NCAA bids as should be reasonably expected every so many years). Maybe I'm old school and too much on fundamentals, but I like to see 6'7" guys and taller banging and fighting under the boards. Yes, it's nice to have big guys shooting threes but not at the expense of giving away more points on weak inside defense & letting other teams dominate us & usually doubling us on second chance points. We've seen it too many times already this year starting with JMU.

Conference play starts Saturday, and there are several physical teams in the A10. These seem to be the teams that present the biggest problems for our style. Oh yes, if we shoot close to 50%, then that balances off being dominated physically, but history shows that we're not going to shoot that night in & night out. The Texas Tech game was a classic example of poor shooting combined with being dominated physically. The end result of that formula should surprise nobody.

Unfortunately, Spider Guy is 100% correct. Based on CM's flawed philosophy and his unwillingness to make any type of adjustments, either in philosophy or in in-game variations, we are doomed to be the same team year end and year out. Not bad, not really good (although this year we have players who are really good), just good enough to keep a coach's job. Kinda sad really.

 

[fatherspider]

+1 the facilities at ur and the financial commitment made in the bb program by the university should bring higher expectations than nit bids every other year. Mid major success stories do happen and the school is doing its part to be there and they have given CM every opportunity. The Princeton offense is for the underdog hoping to slay the giant once in a while. That's all I think we can aspire to be at this stage under current leadership.

 

[keefusb]

I don't understand why we give other teams so many cheap easy second chances. I understand why we don't hit our own offensive glass (I don't necessarily agree but I understand why), but I will never understand why we consistently let other teams big guys have career nights against us on their offensive glass.

I just don't get it...

 

[Not-A-Homer]

Unfortunately, Spider Guy is 100% correct. Based on CM's flawed philosophy and his unwillingness to make any type of adjustments, either in philosophy or in in-game variations, we are doomed to be the same team year end and year out. Not bad, not really good (although this year we have players who are really good), just good enough to keep a coach's job. Kinda sad really.

I don't think I have heard a better summary than this in my 2-years on this forum.

Players are a little better this year. The coaching is mediocre as per normal. In line with him being one of the worst in-game strategic bench coaches, Mooney's decision-making will cost the team several games again this season. You can take it to the bank.

 

[sdspider]

The thing is what is he going to do when you only play one D and token pressure is considered the twist. I like Mooney I do, why can't he tweak the D I don't know. One thing I love about Coach Rocco is his ability to change the game plan and style to the player strengths.

 

[64Spider]

Does Rocco have any experience coaching basketball.