Spider Collective NIL

[spider23]

And I'm sorry, I can't seem to locate where I posted my Mooney vs succesfull mid majors comparison, but there are more that can be made.

Utah State - This is third coach in three seasons. Guess what, last two (seasons) went to NCAA, and the current new coach is 10-0 and ranked top 50 KenPom. But NOOOOOOO you can't do that, or at least only way to do that is to hire a known criminal. Didn't dig too deep but so far have not hear any charges against Utah State's recent and current coaches.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Hiring a new coach in the these days with the portal might bring instant success (might) - as now they can bring there core players with them from previous school, and chances are - they were pretty good if your hiring them and they are moving up. VCU did this with Odom, and St. Louis is hoping it works with their coach and bringing Avila and Swope.

But lets be honest - Mooney is coming off an A10 regular season title. From my viewpoint of the administration - anytime he does that, or wins 20 games, or makes the NCAA - it buys him at least 3 more years, if not more - before any thought of change would occur. So while the team might not be good this year - he will still have 2-3 more years to produce a winning team that competes and get 3-4 more years.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Trap, we are all aware of this. It's why the complaints over unnecessary extensions - 2 in 3 years - abound. Prove that down seasons won't happen. Prove that extended down periods will not happen. I can understand the 2022 extension, following 2020, an NIT in 2021 and NCAA win in 2022. But this past one makes zero sense since it was preceded by an unacceptable losing season (including loss to W&M etc.), and now appears to be followed by an even worse season in the making.

Post 2022, i.e. the portal era years, have given zero NCAAs and now things look even bleaker for the next few years. One good year - but still one in which UR was never in contention or discussion for the NCAA Tournament, the one goalpost for any program - should not lead to additional years given the preceding year and outlook.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Trap, we are all aware of this. It's why the complaints over unnecessary extensions - 2 in 3 years - abound. Prove that down seasons won't happen. Prove that extended down periods will not happen. I can understand the 2022 extension, following 2020, an NIT in 2021 and NCAA win in 2022. But this past one makes zero sense since it was preceded by an unacceptable losing season (including loss to W&M etc.), and now appears to be followed by an even worse season in the making.

Post 2022, i.e. the portal era years, have given zero NCAAs and now things look even bleaker for the next few years. One good year - but still one in which UR was never in contention or discussion for the NCAA Tournament, the one goalpost for any program - should not lead to additional years given the preceding year and outlook.

I agree with everything - but the administration will be saying this one line. In the portal era - things can change in an instant. So while you say things look bleaker - that can all change immediately with some impactful and good portal signings. Some of which we thought we had this year, but they didn't work out. I don't disagree with you - just playing devil's advocate from the administration side. And yet to be seen if Mooney can truly succeed in the portal era - but under UR expectations, compete and be good every so often - he can do that. He is good for a good team about every 4 years, if not sooner. Not saying good gets into the NCAA, sometimes its just NIT - but I think that administration has shown - they are okay with that.

 

[mr.spider]

I agree with everything - but the administration will be saying this one line. In the portal era - things can change in an instant. So while you say things look bleaker - that can all change immediately with some impactful and good portal signings. Some of which we thought we had this year, but they didn't work out. I don't disagree with you - just playing devil's advocate from the administration side. And yet to be seen if Mooney can truly succeed in the portal era - but under UR expectations, compete and be good every so often - he can do that. He is good for a good team about every 4 years, if not sooner. Not saying good gets into the NCAA, sometimes its just NIT - but I think that administration has shown - they are okay with that.

True, they are exactly saying a good year every 3 to 4 years is enough. It might be a MINIMUM acceptable level of success IF good was defined by NCAAs and not regular season accomplishments, 20 win seasons, NITs, etc.

 

[97spiderfan]

I agree with everything - but the administration will be saying this one line. In the portal era - things can change in an instant. So while you say things look bleaker - that can all change immediately with some impactful and good portal signings. Some of which we thought we had this year, but they didn't work out. I don't disagree with you - just playing devil's advocate from the administration side. And yet to be seen if Mooney can truly succeed in the portal era - but under UR expectations, compete and be good every so often - he can do that. He is good for a good team about every 4 years, if not sooner. Not saying good gets into the NCAA, sometimes its just NIT - but I think that administration has shown - they are okay with that.

I think everyone on this board is well aware what the UR athletic administration is OK with.

 

[Spiders4ever]

True, they are exactly saying a good year every 3 to 4 years is enough. It might be a MINIMUM acceptable level of success IF good was defined by NCAAs and not regular season accomplishments, 20 win seasons, NITs, etc.

No NCAA last year, so it looks like this is year 3., unless there is a big turnaround.

 

[mr.spider]

No NCAA last year, so it looks like this is year 3., unless there is a big turnaround.

There is exactly 0% chance we make the NCAAs this year. Ok, in this crazy world we live in I'm not sure of anything, so I'll give us a generous 0.000000001% chance.

 

[8legs1dream]

Gilly and Matty F'n Grace aint walking through that door

 

[spider23]

Gilly and Matty F'n Grace aint walking through that door

Just wait until we unleash GW3. And JRob. And Bryson.

 

[SpiderTrap]

No NCAA last year, so it looks like this is year 3., unless there is a big turnaround.

I think the administration counts last year as a success - winning the A10, even without an NCAA - so in reality I believe this is year 1.

 

[mr.spider]

I think the administration counts last year as a success - winning the A10, even without an NCAA - so in reality I believe this is year 1.

They do, and that's why we're upset. We could accomplish way more here than we do.

 

[spiderman]

thinking about how NIL works, I wonder ... does a player's number change every year?
I'd think it must. say a freshman getting $50k has a great season. I assume the coach or NIL guy approaches him and tells him we're going to give you a increase, right? otherwise he would likely leave if the market deems he's worth substantially more.

on the other hand, say we gave a $100k or more NIL package to a transfer who doesn't do much. I assume we're not obligated to renew that amount?

 

[VT4700]

thinking about how NIL works, I wonder ... does a player's number change every year?
I'd think it must. say a freshman getting $50k has a great season. I assume the coach or NIL guy approaches him and tells him we're going to give you a increase, right? otherwise he would likely leave if the market deems he's worth substantially more.

on the other hand, say we gave a $100k or more NIL package to a transfer who doesn't do much. I assume we're not obligated to renew that amount?

I think every case could be different. Some might ask for upfront and get a set amount each year they are here.

 

[Spiders4ever]

Can you make them pay you back?

 

[MDspider8]

thinking about how NIL works, I wonder ... does a player's number change every year?
I'd think it must. say a freshman getting $50k has a great season. I assume the coach or NIL guy approaches him and tells him we're going to give you a increase, right? otherwise he would likely leave if the market deems he's worth substantially more.

on the other hand, say we gave a $100k or more NIL package to a transfer who doesn't do much. I assume we're not obligated to renew that amount?

Mooney recently shared a desire to have NIL packages that are structured to reward staying at Richmond for multiple years, so I assume we are doing something like that for any of our incoming freshman/multi-year transfers. Assuming it's a built in YoY increase or bonus structure that fulfills as long as the player remains with the team.

 

[spider23]

It's all a crapshoot. Mooney can say this all he wants, but if uncorked Jrob this season, and let's say he looked really really good. And we said he was going to get a $20K loyalty bump for next season. Bruce Pearl could come in with $180K and blow him out of the water.

Heck I remember seeing Dutcher and SDSU NIL folks talking about every player gets a couple grand per month. Well when Kentucky comes in and gives your starting PG a million, you may have to adjust. And now I see they have some crazy budget that leads the MW.

Again, not just Mooney here - but he has these grandiose 1970's plans that don't really work in reality. In reality you have to fight and claw and be in it 24/7 every season to put a good roster on the floor. I don't think Mooney has that in him now, and that is why we have these redshirts and another developmental year next year when the true freshman join them.

 

[GKiller]

I think every case could be different. Some might ask for upfront and get a set amount each year they are here.

I don’t think anyone is getting a signing bonus so to speak. Not at UR. They r paid out regularly like monthly, as I understand it. At big schools maybe it’s different.

 

[8legs1dream]

yeah agreed I was going to say, these are year to year things even if there is some loyalty bonus built in. When the big boys come calling ready to give you a nice 5x bump who says no haha

 

[SpiderTrap]

Mooney recently shared a desire to have NIL packages that are structured to reward staying at Richmond for multiple years, so I assume we are doing something like that for any of our incoming freshman/multi-year transfers. Assuming it's a built in YoY increase or bonus structure that fulfills as long as the player remains with the team.

That is a good idea in theory, but in practice not so much. Reason being - if you put in escalation for a player staying, then you likely need to have a buyout in there if a player leaves early - and frankly, I don't see any player agreeing to that. They want the flexibility to leave at any moment. Plus - not sure schools like us or even the big schools, want to lock in to longer term deals - in case the player underperforms, they can get out of it pretty quickly.

This idea has been floated by some coaches, but it really only works when and if the schools are able to pay the players directly themselves. Then I could see schools coming to agreements longer than 1 year with players, sort of like player contracts. This would limit the amount of transfers to an extent - not to say the school can't get out the contract or the player can't get out - but I would think maybe 2 year, maybe 3 year contracts would be normal. With clauses on how to exit the contract if needed by both sides.

 

[GKiller]

We bought out Joe Lunardi’s contract

Sources.