I missed what you said about me, but it was probably not as bad as what plenty of others have said. But, I will say the "moon group" comments got old a long time ago, but whatever. Just to let you know, I have my opinions and mine only....I don't go along with a "group". Sorry my opinions bother you so much.
Soulis hits the portal
- Thread starter MDspider8
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I enjoyed it. If we went back in time the season even could have been played out. But it’s now outside your 5 year window. R we going with 6 year window? Why not 7 or 8.
Let’s just go with the 20. Wonder how it will look after 21.
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Personally, it is outside my window right now. But 2022 isn’t. And the arguments many made here were that you can only count one of either 2020 or 2022 but not both since the players coming back 2022 wouldn’t have happened without the covid bonus year. Yet, when I bring up that the same logic of not counting 2022 would then apply to 2023-2025 - since players are still using their covid bonus year up through this season - it doesn’t seem to be acknowledged by anyone who made the either 2020 or 2022 season should count but not both argument. So either we go down this rabbit hole of what should or should not count over many years of hypotheticals or we accept the reality happened the way it happened and the rules were universally applied to everyone. We don’t know what “could’ve been”. What happened was we won in 2022. 2020 is no longer in my window, but it was a great season.
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Idk why u replying to me not my argument. I get why anyone says as much but it didn’t come from me. I wish 2020 wasn’t canceled we could have played.
I’m a count everything guy. I’ve counted them all up and Mooney’s metrics suck. Give me his best 20-year metric. The good guy metric even tho everyone’s got ‘em. All the big ones stink..NCAAs, predicted vs actual A10 finishes, vcu record, a10 tourney record, # of .500 or below seasons etc etc
And those things r even applicable to a 5 year window.
Sure, I'm fine with applying the same logic to 2023-25. It's just that in our specific case, which is the one I care most about, that wouldn't really apply because we didn't make it in any of those years. But we did make it in 2022 with all the same players whose eligibility would have already expired if we had made a 2020 tournament. So the 2020 vs. 2022 discussion for us is a much easier one to have. If there's a 2020 tournament and we make it, none of our best players could have been on the team in 2022.
I suppose you could make the argument that we "could" have made it in 2022 anyway with a whole cast of new players, but does anyone really want to make that argument in a legitimate way? I sure don't.
Kansas beat UNC in the 2022 title game. Both teams used players that used the extra covid year. Should Kansas not count the title, and did that year not count for UNC?
Why is that necessarily the case? 2020–21 was the bonus season that didn't count for eligibility, not 2019–20. If the COVID shutdown had come a month later than it did and we'd squeezed in the 2020 tournament, our guys still could have been around for the 2022 tournament.
There are all sorts of "what if" scenarios, but given what actually happened, both 2019–20 and 2021–22 were ultimately successful seasons.
Great point that gets lost here. 21 was the season that gave us the bonus year. But, that doesn't fit the common argument to downplay our 2020 season.
Not really following...
Gilyard was a junior in 2019-20. If there was a tournament that year, his senior year would have been the following year, 20-21. He wouldn't have had a fifth year in 2021-22. Same with Cayo. Golden and Sherod were redshirt juniors in 19-20. They also would have been done after 20-21 and not on the team in 21-22.
NO ONE IS DOWNPLAYING THE 2020 SEASON FOR THE LOVE OF GOD. We are simply saying that up until that point, no one could play more than 4 full seasons! So if that season had concluded with a tournament and no covid, Gilyard, Sherod, Golden and Cayo would have been finished after 2021, and as such, they could not have played in 21-22, so therefore they could not have led us to the tournament that year.
Its an impossible concept for team mooney to understand. That is why in my evaluation of Moon's regime vs top mid major programs and coaches I purposely added it as an NCAA year, and moon man was was still lagging greatly. But alas, we compare to Fordham, LaSalle and the like, we don't want to be great.
Mooney is 56% lifetime winning percentage, 3 NCAA in 20 years, one in the last 14 years, 9-26 (correct me if I'm wrong GK) against VCU and 2 of the last 3 years have been flaming disasters. And today our roster is probably the worst roster he has had and one of the worst in the A-10, so the future isn't looking bright.
I don't care what he did or did not do in 2020 or how we consider it. A 20 year tenured head coach shouldn't have had the past 3 years we had and shouldn't have the program he leads in the current shape it is. It is 1000% percent his responsibility.
Next year is gonna be a bitter pill for Hardt, Queally and the pro-Mooney crowd to swallow. The only question is how much more can and do they swallow in their allegiance to a coach who no matter how you dissect his career is at best mediocre.
As an alumnus of the University of Richmond, I always had the belief that UR stood for and strove for excellence in everything they do. I know longer believe that. It is highly disappointing that we continue to not only put up with but celebrate and reward mediocre performance in our flagship sport. It is difficult for me to take any of our leadership seriously when they fail to address a very publicly facing underperforming part of the University. It makes me really wonder, what less visible parts of our university do we also just let slide when they underperform expectations.
I don't care what he did or did not do in 2020 or how we consider it. A 20 year tenured head coach shouldn't have had the past 3 years we had and shouldn't have the program he leads in the current shape it is. It is 1000% percent his responsibility.
Next year is gonna be a bitter pill for Hardt, Queally and the pro-Mooney crowd to swallow. The only question is how much more can and do they swallow in their allegiance to a coach who no matter how you dissect his career is at best mediocre.
As an alumnus of the University of Richmond, I always had the belief that UR stood for and strove for excellence in everything they do. I know longer believe that. It is highly disappointing that we continue to not only put up with but celebrate and reward mediocre performance in our flagship sport. It is difficult for me to take any of our leadership seriously when they fail to address a very publicly facing underperforming part of the University. It makes me really wonder, what less visible parts of our university do we also just let slide when they underperform expectations.
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????? The covid year was 2021. Had there been a tournament in 2020, everything would have been the same. The same guys could have all come back.
LOL. U and your "team Mooney" comments. So, I guess u agree with EL, meaning u are wrong too. The covid year was 2021. That is what is difficult for u and EL to understand.
That's why I posted 2027/2028. Timing always seem to work out for CM & extensions. History in extensions is a forecaster of future extensions.
Jesus, everyone in the country who played in 20-21 was allowed back in 21-22! This wasn't some rule just for Spiders. and it didn't give us some advantage that everyone else didn't have.
I'm not saying this to give Mooney extra credit. it's just what happened!
And I'm fine with that! What I'm not fine with is the insinuation that we made the tournament twice -- in 2020 and in 2022. We did not. And if there had been a tournament in 2020 and we made it, then we would not have made it in 2022 because those players' eligibility would have expired after 2021.
We don't have to guess at what would have happened in 20-21 -- we saw it. We were bad.
What?? Had there been a tournament in 2020, then Gilyard, Sherod, Cayo and Golden would have been seniors in 20-21 and graduated in May 2021. They could not have led us to the tournament in 21-22 because they already would have been out of eligibility. Why is this so confusing?
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
They dont have to suffer the consequences though, pretend like everything is fine as long as their guy is the coach. Hide out in the bunker for 80% of the season then reappear in the offseason acting like everything is cool. Seriously makes me laugh.
How am I wrong? Explain it to me like I'm the moron you think I am.
If covid never happened, here's what would have happened:
2017-18 - Gilyard was a freshman
2018-19 - Gilyard was a sophomore
2019-20 - Gilyard was a junior. We make the NCAA tournament. Hooray!
2020-21 - Gilyard would have been a senior and graduated. (We played this season and didn't make the tournament, by the way.)
2021-22 - Gilyard would not have been on the team, hence he could not have led us to the 2022 tournament.
Whether there was or was not a tournament in 2020 did not affect their years of eligibility. It was the shortened 2020–21 season that gave them the extra year.
So as I posed, if COVID had happened a month later and we'd squeezed in the 2020 tournament before it hit, we still would have had a shortened 2020–21 season and they still would have gotten an extra year.
If COVID hadn't happened at all, then no, they wouldn't have been around for 2022.
But these are all just what-ifs...COVID did happen, and they did get an extra year. You don't have to give them credit for an NCAA year in 2020, but it was an NCAA-worthy year.
So as I posed, if COVID had happened a month later and we'd squeezed in the 2020 tournament before it hit, we still would have had a shortened 2020–21 season and they still would have gotten an extra year.
If COVID hadn't happened at all, then no, they wouldn't have been around for 2022.
But these are all just what-ifs...COVID did happen, and they did get an extra year. You don't have to give them credit for an NCAA year in 2020, but it was an NCAA-worthy year.
But the whole point is that covid DIDN'T hit later. It hit when it hit, and we are discussing things as they happened, not some what-if where covid happened a few weeks later.
Then why are you are you talking about a what-if where 2022 doesn't count?
Of course 2022 counted. I'm saying that if 2020 had counted, there would not have been a 2022 for our big 4. They would have been gone after 2021, and in 2021 -- a season that existed -- they failed to make the tournament. So I'll give them credit for making it in 2020 OR in 2022, but obviously not both.
Dayton and SDSU really have the most to complain about the covid cancellation tournament. Both top 6 Kenpom, both with the clutch gene, both built to win a championship. Was hoping for SDSU over Dayton in championship game.
I honestly don't care how things are "counted"...it doesn't change my assessment of his tenure and our current trajectory.
I wish we'd changed direction a decade ago when it was clear he'd failed to capitalize on the back-to-back bids. But he was never bad enough for long enough for us to pull the trigger and we've been in purgatory ever since. We haven't been terrible but I think we could have been better. And I don't think our future is particularly bright under the status quo.
I wish we'd changed direction a decade ago when it was clear he'd failed to capitalize on the back-to-back bids. But he was never bad enough for long enough for us to pull the trigger and we've been in purgatory ever since. We haven't been terrible but I think we could have been better. And I don't think our future is particularly bright under the status quo.
well, I'll give them credit for a great year in 2020 that should have ended in a tournament.
and I'll give them credit for 2022 ... because it happened.
and some credit for the 21 NIT too.
but I still wouldn't have unneccessarily extended Mooney's contract to tie our hands again. unless of course that was an automatic extension based on incentives in his old contract, which we'll never know.
Agreed. I was glad SDSU managed to get to the title game a couple years ago, at least. Dayton really got screwed though.
Would argue that we were terrible last year. 250 NET, last in the A-10, next to last place in the conference standings. Zero quality wins, 2 of our 10 whole wins were over D3 schools.
Oh yes, for sure. I meant not consistently terrible...he's done enough often enough to keep us in purgatory.
The guy still coaches at Richmond for God's sake. Non of the big programs want him!! Fact
