Ryan Butler
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Lets not forget - this is half a DOBO job we are talking about. Mooney has taken the stance instead of having one DOBO, he has two - and they are usually young guys trying to break into coaching - so I have no issue with this.
If you want to make a stink about this - then maybe one could say, drop having the two DOBO positions and move to one position and maybe you could get a guy with coaching experience (either at college, HS, or AAU level) who could add some value on the side from a coaching or recruiting perspective. But really - this is the DOBO - makes travel plans and runs the summer camps, if he wants to reward past players with this position and pay them about 20K a year to run errands, so be it.
If you want to make a stink about this - then maybe one could say, drop having the two DOBO positions and move to one position and maybe you could get a guy with coaching experience (either at college, HS, or AAU level) who could add some value on the side from a coaching or recruiting perspective. But really - this is the DOBO - makes travel plans and runs the summer camps, if he wants to reward past players with this position and pay them about 20K a year to run errands, so be it.
"It's only a DOBO job, it's only a DOBO job, it's only a DOBO job." You guys sound like Dorothy on the Wizard of Oz.
Here's why I am concerned: First, as 97 pointed out, it demonstrates that Mooney is continuing to do the same thing he always has and expects better results, for some reason. That wouldn't bother me if, you know, we were actually WINNING GAMES.
Second, Rob Jones was our DOBO for 3 years. He's now our top assistant coach, and the one I would most like to see replaced. What has he done to earn his way up? Who the hell knows, but it seems that he was promoted largely because everyone above him left over a period of time.
Here's why I am concerned: First, as 97 pointed out, it demonstrates that Mooney is continuing to do the same thing he always has and expects better results, for some reason. That wouldn't bother me if, you know, we were actually WINNING GAMES.
Second, Rob Jones was our DOBO for 3 years. He's now our top assistant coach, and the one I would most like to see replaced. What has he done to earn his way up? Who the hell knows, but it seems that he was promoted largely because everyone above him left over a period of time.
How much does it pay? I might be interested if the price is right.
and that's what's funny. you'd be happier with anyone except who he hired.
pretty typical around here by some of every decision he makes.
So Mark is indeed director of program development, not a co-DOBO. The distinction may be mostly title rather than function, but I think it's at least an improvement to give the guys different titles rather than sharing one.
http://www.richmondspiders.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=26800&ATCLID=210966889
http://www.richmondspiders.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=26800&ATCLID=210966889
Yeah, I know. The nerve. Imagine wanting a different strategy than the one that has laid a giant goose egg for 5 years and cost us $26 million or more in salary and arena renovation. But I guess you're fine with that, so carry on.
stay focused here. we're not talking about some overall program big picture despite your efforts to make this into that. we're talking about an entry level DOBO job. and you're complaining that there wasn't some deep nationwide search or something.
the guy will help "running summer camps to organizing player schedules to impacting our program’s digital reach".
this is seriously so ridiculous. is it the weekend yet?
The reason we haven't made the NCAAs the past 5 years was due to our players having poor schedules. We needed to hire the best scheduler in the country, anything less is unacceptable.
No, it IS a big-picture issue, because we have seen a previous DOBO with no experience advance through Mooney's ranks to become the lead assistant, and excuse me for believing (based on the results during said period) that perhaps that wasn't the most genius idea. So do I want another guy with no collegiate coaching experience to enter the fray and one day end up the head assistant, just because Mooney likes him? No, I really don't.
And I don't trust Mooney to get rid of guys who aren't cutting it, because he is so loyal. We've seen this over and over again. Once a guy comes on board, he only leaves if HE wants to, not because Mooney will fire him.
if you're complaining about Jones, then complain about Jones. you don't like his promotion, fine. that's your opinion. I'll listen.
we just hired a guy to run summer camps, organizing player schedules, and do something with the internet. you don't want that to be a McGonigal. you think a walk on at UNC or somewhere would be better, without knowing either candidate. better at running summer camps, organizing player schedules, and doing something with the internet. because you're worried that no matter who we hire he'll end up as lead assistant. and the UNC walk on would be a better lead assistant than a UR walk on. gotcha.
we just hired a guy to run summer camps, organizing player schedules, and do something with the internet. you don't want that to be a McGonigal. you think a walk on at UNC or somewhere would be better, without knowing either candidate. better at running summer camps, organizing player schedules, and doing something with the internet. because you're worried that no matter who we hire he'll end up as lead assistant. and the UNC walk on would be a better lead assistant than a UR walk on. gotcha.
Hey, I get it – you love Mooney and everything we've achieved and have no interest in making any changes for any reason. Totally fine. I simply disagree. The program needs a culture change, IMO.
The culture is simply too familiar and close-minded, in my opinion. The moves he makes are indicative of a guy who either is afraid to do anything different or unknown, or who simply is unwilling to do that. All of this would be fine by me, if we were winning. We are not winning. So now I'm going to examine everything, and this is one of my conclusions. You are free to disagree completely, as you have.
All I care about is winning basketball games. I truthfully do not care about how we do that, and I wouldn't be complaining about anything Mooney does if he takes us to the NCAAs. It's that simple. Win and justify the investment in the program. Or consistently don't win, and I'm going to call you out for it and question why the moves you keep making that do not help us win aren't bad moves.
The culture is simply too familiar and close-minded, in my opinion. The moves he makes are indicative of a guy who either is afraid to do anything different or unknown, or who simply is unwilling to do that. All of this would be fine by me, if we were winning. We are not winning. So now I'm going to examine everything, and this is one of my conclusions. You are free to disagree completely, as you have.
All I care about is winning basketball games. I truthfully do not care about how we do that, and I wouldn't be complaining about anything Mooney does if he takes us to the NCAAs. It's that simple. Win and justify the investment in the program. Or consistently don't win, and I'm going to call you out for it and question why the moves you keep making that do not help us win aren't bad moves.
Agree. Good points on both sides. It's "just" a program development/glorified DOBO job to go along with the other DOBO and the analytics guy and 2 out of 3 assistants with no experience of note, aside from working with CM.
No matter how we reshuffle these deck chairs, we need more than 2 or 3 A10 caliber big men.
We really need to have a big year for all our sake. The relationship between our coaching staff and our fanbase is getting pretty toxic and it's not just Eight Legger and 97Spiderfan. It amazes me how often I talk to people that are UR Alums and marginal basketball fans that are exhausted of the current regime - people i didnt even think were paying attention.
Also, thanks to Ryan Butler and good luck on your next step, whatever it may be.
Mo well said and so true about the program. I hope the team proves us all wrong this year though
I am cautiously optimistic we will have a .500 record. There needs to be a consistency of improvement versus
mediocrity.
Ryan, you are a classy young man and you deserve the best.
If i make one million a year i give back 100000 for cinsultant if i am always 500 percent winner .. But this is for me..is the Carrill still here?
Eight, you are a passionate fan and you wear your thoughts on your sleeve, so to speak. would suggest, very seriously, for you to go to the Robins Center, enter the basketball office and ask to speak to CM, or any of the coaches. typically, they will see you, has been my experience. sit down from CM and just tell him where he is going wrong and what he needs to do to improve the program. would rather you do that than have a seizure or heart attack. am sure you would appreciate someone doing the same for you in your career. again, am serious and hope that you will do that. the doors are open in that office, take advantage of it and you may change our program or you might learn why things are done in a certain way, have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
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Eight, you and the others on this board with great ideas really should share them with Coach Mooney. The Ulla has talked with Chris and all of his assistants on numerous occasions and found them to be friendly, open and honest. Your sage advice could be helpful, and if nothing else you might gain a deeper understanding of the workings of our basketball organization. We look forward to a report of the details of your visit. OSC
re: . I truthfully do not care about how we do that
Whether it is Tarrant, Dooley, Beilein, Wainwright or Mooney, whether you like it or not, Richmond can only do things a certain way. That is not pro-Mooney bias, that is just a fact. We tried it a different way with Wainwight, who was universally thought to be a great hire, and it was an unmitigated disaster with some of the kids he brought in.
15-16 was a monumental disappointment, no one is questioning that. Whether that was all on the coaches, players or a combination of both, it is obvious where the posters on the board stand on this one (I believe combination of both)
We have to get better, no question about it. But if you think that the U of R Administration is going to "not care how we do it" in relation to winning basketball games, just not going to happen no matter who is the coach.
Whether it is Tarrant, Dooley, Beilein, Wainwright or Mooney, whether you like it or not, Richmond can only do things a certain way. That is not pro-Mooney bias, that is just a fact. We tried it a different way with Wainwight, who was universally thought to be a great hire, and it was an unmitigated disaster with some of the kids he brought in.
15-16 was a monumental disappointment, no one is questioning that. Whether that was all on the coaches, players or a combination of both, it is obvious where the posters on the board stand on this one (I believe combination of both)
We have to get better, no question about it. But if you think that the U of R Administration is going to "not care how we do it" in relation to winning basketball games, just not going to happen no matter who is the coach.
When is the last time that something really positive has happened in our program. The Sherod/Buck signings last fall were positive. On the court, probably our win over Cal.
What else good has happened to be positive about in the past year? Asking a legitimate question here, cause I just don't see a lot positive things happening in the recent past.
We finished 9th in the A-10 in a year we were supposed to compete for an NCAA and our spring signing period we had 3 open slots and a plethora of high quality options, all of which said no to us.
I would much rather be cheerleading our staff and excited about our future, but I'm not going to give them pats on the back when I personally don't see something positive happening. That is why we have Ulla on here.
guys, he's a lower level assistant, he's not just right off the ship, he's coach HS 3 years and scout/develop/mentor from other sources, why do you want to bash him? Sounds to me he did what you want, he went out and got other influences and will now bring them back home to us
I am with eight legger here on this hire. This is not, however, an anti-Mcgonigal thought. I am not bashing him. I have no idea how good a coach he is or might be. This is a philosophical vote. The game changes and so must coaches. Just look to Durham and how much Coach K has evolved over time. Our leader certainly seems unwilling or unable to change on or off the court in how our program is being run. This concerns the likes of Eight and me and a hire that follows the same old formula doesn't bode well. We (CM) HAVE to change and evolve - - players are different, the game is different, recruiting is different etc. But to me, we remain stuck! A more "creative" (or however you want to put it) use of an open staff position would have been a nice sign that CM gets it and is ready to move forward and evolve. Instead it shows we are likely just headed for more of the same across the board! And thus we bitch! Don't turn it into an anti-McGonigal thing and then say that's unfair. If I was bashing him, it probably is unfair since I know so little. Taken as a criticism of Mooney, its totally fair (even if one might disagree with it). To me, Mooney has lost all "right" to my deferring to his judgement on just about anything, including the hiring of a DOBO who seems to fit the same ol', same ol' way he's always done things . The program is sliding backwards continually for the past few years. That should get your criticized, not buy you more defernce from the fanbase!
Duke has three assistant coaches, one special assistant and one DOBO. Guess what? All are Duke grads!
http://www.goduke.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPID=1845&SPSID=22725
http://www.goduke.com/SportSelect.dbml?SPID=1845&SPSID=22725
Duke has won multiple national championships and averages more than 30 wins a year. When Mooney starts doing that, he can hire as many ex-players and family members as he wants to. I'll even help do their laundry, for free.
We are on the way with our current recruits and next year. Eight, the Ulla feels certain that you will then be able to overcome your negative ways. OSC
I'm not negative, I'm realistic. I just seem negative compared to you and your proclamations that everything is always awesome.
I think that pessimism is not necessarily required for a realistic outlook. I think there are many posters on here who overall have realistic opinions who are more on the negative side (like Eight Legger), but I also think there are some posters who are realistic but more on the positive side (like me). Just because we don't see eye to eye on every issue doesn't mean that one of our outlooks is unrealistic. Of course there are some posters on both sides who are a bit too extreme and tread into unrealistic territory.
I guess what I am saying is that you actually can be both negative and realistic. Or you can be positive and realistic. Or you can be negative and unrealistic or positive and unrealistic.
Eight, it's not awesome at the moment, but you know what, all of us should support our team and coaches. We don't make the changes. Changes are made by the AD. For us not to support our current team and coaches is short sighted and totally unproductive. OSC
I support our team as much as anyone. If I didn't, I wouldn't care whether we won or lost, who we hired or how much money we were spending. I want us to be a great basketball program, just like everyone here. And I have no qualms about pointing out what I think is preventing us from attaining that goal when it's relevant, just as I don't hesitate to praise what we do well.
