I bet Mooney was just begging them to suit up and telling them all about how much they would be able to contribute and how they fit perfectly into his system but they were just being stubborn and lazy and couldn't be bothered to leave the comfy confines of the bench, is that how it all played out in your head?
in retrospect it looks obvious. but we thought we'd be pretty good. and we had what we thought was strong depth at forward (Dusan, Roche, AP, Tanner and supposedly Beagle). there wasn't going to be a lot of available time if that group played well.
As much as I don’t like it, totally agree. I don’t think Tyne starts the year on the bench. Maybe ends up there. It’ll be interesting to see what happens.
Last year should have been a development/transition year. Instead, Mooney mistakenly thought we would be good and rode the backs of a couple mediocre grad transfer portal guys and Roche to an 8 win season. If we are a program that says we like to develop players and wants to continue to build through the development of high school recruits, than what the eff we were doing last year. Last year will go down as one of the all time Mooney f*ck ups. Hardt and company just watching him do it the entire time, even when it was abundantly clear by the end of November that we were god awful. And then once our only decent player went down with a season ended injury, we still stayed the course. Absolute ineptitude.
well that's not going to happen.
Tyne needs to take a big step for sure. I wonder how much of his issues last year as PG were him needing to be better and how many were a product of having no legit offensive weapons on the floor with him to create offense.
I think Tyne's skillset is not "running an offense" in the mold of Gilyard or Jeff Myers or Ungerer. He's much more Blake Francis and Kendall Anthony in his offensive approach (but a worse shooter). When he looks to attack, he's looking for his own shot, not looking to open up the defense for someone else. He's very, very poor at pick and roll (can't get the pass away, can't shoot off the dribble, and on the drive often gets too deep and gets his shot blocked).
I think he can get to respectable on catch and shoot. He's really bad at shooting off the dribble. So if we have someone else facilitating and his shots are coming off the pass, I think that sets him and us up for more success.
Then why not wait on the redshirt decision? Let the freshmen practice everyday thinking they might have a chance to break into the rotation. See how things go the first 6 or 7 games of OOC.. If we look good and the depth is there at forward, fine, redshirt them. But, my goodness we were so bad during OOC play, it would have been nice to at least see if the freshman could get in there and give us a spark. If not, are they really talented enough to be factors this year?
I agree and good point about the Hunt injury. That combined with us not playing well at all screams let's take a look at the freshmen. But, when they have already redshirted, they mentally are not prepared at all. Which is another reason redshirting is so stupid. How can guys mentally and even physically prepare themselves 100% knowing there is a 0% chance they will play? I wonder how much better McGlothin and Robinson might be right now if they were pushing our guys last year for playing time, trying to beat them out to be part of the rotation?
my understanding is that they DO practice everyday ... and hard. they aren't slacking because they redshirt.
not sure why it's a discussion.
I wonder what made us thought we would be pretty good. We replaced King with Tyne. We replaced Dji with Tanner. We replaced Bigs with Dusan. We replaced Quinn with Walz as a starting center, but rotation wise, we replaced Quinn with Beagle. All of this screams we need production from our true freshmen. Too many freshmen are playing and talented enough to play right now. We don't need to be recruiting guys to redshirt them.
I agree. Definitely not solid. Grant with Grace backing him up was solid. Walz with Beagle as back up is very average. Hopefully, both can improve and be much more consistent. Best case would be Walz gets it done night in and night out and plays 28+ minutes a game. Not sure we need more than 12 mpg from Beagle.
But, he's 59-218 (27.1%) in his career. A good amount of those attempts were catch and shoot 3s.
The main problem these days is that there's a 50-50 chance or more that any given kid on the roster is going to transfer at some point. So if you redshirt a kid, you're just wasting one of the few potential years you have him. For us last year, the issue was that we sucked. So why not find out whether any of those freshmen could help us? Either that year or in the future.
Another issue with the redshirts was they were our only 2 freshmen. We knew we were losing Quinn, Bigs, King, and Harris, and Dji was always gonna be a possibility. So, with only 2 freshmen coming in, we needed to recruit freshmen who were ready to play from day 1. Any player we are recruiting has likely played basketball year round for several years. Unless they are a big who maybe needs to get bigger, all of our freshmen should be college ready.
Do u think redshirts will mentally and physically bring it 100% everyday? How many times will redshirts be "running with the 1s" as our friend used to say? When are they part of any rotations in practice? When are they thinking to themselves "if I just do this or do this, I could get some minutes next game". I just think it would be incredibly hard to bring it every single day knowing there is no chance you will ever play. And, we are not talking about walk ons who bring it every day. We are talking about guys who were recruited because they have a lot of talent and guys who I would think expected to be playing and not redshirting their freshmen years.
This is why I am now doubting their potential some. I was excited about both at this time last year, but it should not have taken too many practices to see how slow and non athletic we were. But, our staff obviously felt Tanner and AP were so much better than our freshmen that we should redshirt them. Yikes!!!!
absolutely. these are competitive D1 athletes.
agreed ... they won't.
every day.
no, I was responding to urfan1's hypothetical where it "should be equal decision between player(family) and staff, with each voice being equal".
Exactly. They are competitive. And yet we redshirted them and didn’t let them compete for anything.
I've known a couple kids who redshirted. one was a medical redshirt. both busted their asses every day and got better.
they chose the redshirt. yes, we offererd it. but they chose it. they get paid. they get better, whether for here or somewhere else. they get a jump start on college classes and can choose to graduate in 4 or 5 years. etc.
because it's basketball. you practice for 2.5 hours. guys get breaks. you only play 25-30 mpg max in a real game. you want them to play hard for 2.5 hours?
.
Of course medical redshirts will bust their asses. Kind of have to when rehabbing and coming back from an injury. As for others, unless you were there with them, you wouldn't know. And, I wouldn't know for sure either, but I just find it hard to believe you would bring the same intensity every single day 100% of the time when redshirting.
lol, no. obviously not at any practices. and I'm sure some kids might get down knowing they aren't going to play ... though I'd expect less "down" if the redshirt was their own decision.I'm on the side that you can't be as dialed in if you are not expecting to get in games. It just sharpens your mental edge. sman, were you at the practices? Not trying to be argumentative, but it's a lot easier to say you are dialed in and busting your ass everyday, then actually doing it. I mean I am pretty damn good at letting my boss know how busy I am all the value I am bringing ever day
If I were at practice, I can't think of anything positive that could have happened here. Either Tanner and AP, guys who were young and unproven like our freshmen, clearly beat out our freshmen, or our freshmen were every bit as good as Tanner and AP and our staff inexplicably redshirted them. I just can't help but lose my excitement and hope for McGlothin and Robinson. We just won 10 games and Tanner and AP gave us pretty much nothing all year. Yet, they were clearly better than our true freshmen???
You keep saying they chose the redshirt. What were they supposed to do a couple weeks or whatever before the season starts? Quit? Either we made a stupid decision to redshirt them or they are less talented than AP and Tanner.
as I've said, they made the same choice I'd have made.
