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Richmond Athletics: Worth Saving? If so, How?

Not that I’m a cheerleader for Hardt, but he did replace Shafer with a coach who seems to have redirected the women’s basketball team. So he is willing and perhaps capable, the question of course is would he do the same with CM. I actually haven’t given up hope.

Well his contract was up. It was a no brainer. They let him be a lame duck for a year. Looks like a good hire but they also wasted a year. Could be 1 more year ahead of schedule. Hardt could have easily made that move year b4. Now if they were saving money on womens hoops by keeping Shaffer as lame duck instead of eating that $ & then use that savings by redirecting it elsewhere then fine, good. But instead they just gave Moon more millions on an extension.
 
Well his contract was up. It was a no brainer. They let him be a lame duck for a year. Looks like a good hire but they also wasted a year. Could be 1 more year ahead of schedule. Hardt could have easily made that move year b4. Now if they were saving money on womens hoops by keeping Shaffer as lame duck instead of eating that $ & then use that savings by redirecting it elsewhere then fine, good. But instead they just gave Moon more millions on an extension.
Yeah, not giving him credit for making a tough call, just that he found a capable replacement.
 
Our overall basketball record is 35-12 (.745) in 2019-20 and 2020-21. Our A-10 record over that span is 18-7 (.720). We would have played in the NCAA tournament last year. We have a borderline chance this year, despite losing a full-time starter who averaged almost 13 points and six rebounds while shooting 44% on 3-pointers.

So, a coach winning more than 70% of his overall and conference games over the past two seasons, who would have played in the NCAAs last year and still might this year, should be fired, based on what happened four or five years ago?
 
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I'm not taking sides at this point this year, and I don't think it matters either way because nothing will happen. But I will say that I've never seen a coach's clock reset more times than Mooney's has. There's always a reason to wipe the slate clean instead of looking at the totality of things. It's sort of fascinating, honestly. You could argue, with a significant amount of supporting evidence, that we are the only D1 program in America doing this for this long with one coach. Mooney is our Marvin Lewis.
 
Our overall basketball record is 35-12 (.745) in 2019-20 and 2020-21. Our A-10 record over that span is 18-7 (.720). We would have played in the NCAA tournament last year. We have a borderline chance this year, despite losing a full-time starter who averaged almost 13 points and six rebounds while shooting 44% on 3-pointers.

So, a coach winning more than 70% of his overall and conference games over the past two seasons, who would have played in the NCAAs last year and still might this year, should be fired, based on what happened four or five years ago?
If he makes the tournament this year, no. If he doesn’t, then yes. Frankly, we should have turned the page three years ago.

If we can’t isolate what happened 5 (or 3,4,6,7,8,9) years ago, you can’t isolate what’s happened the last two years either. The only reason you would is if you have high confidence the positive trend will continue and there’s absolutely no reason to think we will be back in the hunt next year.
 
Agreed. But if you fire Mooney after this season, with the records he has the past 2 seasons - that would mean the University really does care about Athletics and is serious about winning and making NCAA appearances. They have done nothing in the past that signals that behavior, and for that reason I think this is a moot point - Mooney will be back not only next year (when the team will likely be in a rebuild), but likely at least 2 years after that. I am assuming next year with the rebuild we finish around .500, next season you will see some improvement and the message will be - we are right path - then the 3rd season will become a make or break season.
 
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As guilty as the next in sometimes getting wrapped up in the heat of the moment with the fervor and passion of the board. But in quieter, more reflective moments , I try to consider the larger picture.

The University, our University, has many constituencies vital to its success. Casual observation would suggest that athletics is an important constituency (witness the facility investment), but far from a driving force. And it certainly shouldn’t be THE driving force, but submit, in the best interests of the University, it should hold a higher value.

If athletics isn’t a driving constituency, it follows that we board denizens are further down the totem pole. Don’t believe our voices carry much, if any, weight at all. If truth be told, we are likely considered a vocal bunch of cranky old men, a nuisance to be tolerated, because our goals are not their goals.

In short, despite the University’s substantial resources, the Administration is not driven toward athletic success to advance its strategic goals. Athletics is an addendum. A shiny fob to be taken out and admired occasionally, but quickly boxed up and put away until the next season.

We lack commitment, small to large:

At MBB team level, commitment to defense and defensive rebounding,

At athletic program level, commitment to doing all that is necessary to be successful on a sustained basis,

At Administration level, commitment to athletic success as a synergy with strong academics to leverage national publicity and enhance the school’s reputation.

UR thinks too small. Rocco said the same with his “vision” comment.

Hope with a new President coming soon perhaps this may change, but I rather doubt it.
 
as much as I yearn for fresh leadership and go on and on about it I have accepted our fate as Trap alluded to that Mooney is safe this season, next season will be a dumpster fire and they will just blame it on covid fallout/"greatest class ever" rebuilding hangover, then the year after there will be slight improvement because how can you not improve on it and then the year after is the next honest shot at getting him out of here 😩
 
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Our overall basketball record is 35-12 (.745) in 2019-20 and 2020-21. Our A-10 record over that span is 18-7 (.720). We would have played in the NCAA tournament last year. We have a borderline chance this year, despite losing a full-time starter who averaged almost 13 points and six rebounds while shooting 44% on 3-pointers.

So, a coach winning more than 70% of his overall and conference games over the past two seasons, who would have played in the NCAAs last year and still might this year, should be fired, based on what happened four or five years ago?

All very fair points. Obviously Mooney, Hardt, and optimistic fans were banking on the 2019-2021 seasons to be two years of tournament teams that re-established Mooney's credibility with the fanbase and quieted the growing discontent. It absolutely stinks that there was no tournament last year and Sherod lost this entire year. Terrible, unforeseeable stuff for Coach. On the flip side Coach has been given more than his fair share of patience and compensation over the past 10 years with no tournament berths. So now Coach is in desperation mode with a few weeks left in this season coupled with the expectation that this year's team was the A-10 preseason favorite and the reality that we lose a ton of experience next year and are back to "rebuilding" for a few more seasons at least. Even if Mooney gets us into the tournament this year and we go another 4-5 years without going again its not worth his contract when we could easily get another good coach and become a consistent tournament team quickly (Yes, I believe that). All this is a moot point anyway because we all know that the UR AD will keep Mooney employed for 50 more years and when he finally does make the tournament they will say "we told you so". It's like the AD and a vocal portion of our fanbase is more concerned with Mooney winning than UR winning.
 
If we miss the tournament again this year, when should we realistically expect to make it next? That's the main question I would ask. If he can't make it with his best team ever, when can he make it?
 
The sad thing is that I don’t think Mooney feels any sense of urgency to get this thing right over the next few weeks. He knows he has a job for the foreseeable future, gets a 1.2 million check, and gets to chop it up at the tavern and has no high pressure expectations. Must be nice to have a job like that, I truly envy the guy from that standpoint. I will say though that I wouldn’t just be mailing it in if I had his job, I’d be trying to win the whole thing every year because I’m a competitive guy, I don’t think Mooney has that same fire.
 
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If we miss the tournament again this year, when should we realistically expect to make it next? That's the main question I would ask. If he can't make it with his best team ever, when can he make it?
Surprisingly with his worst...
 
Sadly being an "also-ran" in men's basketball has become a "way of life" that the "powers-that-be" shrug off as no big deal. Refurbishing the Robins Center, paying millions to the head coach, and building a "state of the art" practice facility have yielded what?
 
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It's like the AD and a vocal portion of our fanbase is more concerned with Mooney winning than UR winning.

It constantly amazes me how we have a cadre of our fanbase and folks employed by UR who seem more invested in Mooney than they do the success of our program. Like the ridiculous letter written by Palooza defending Mooney and what a fine representative he is of UR. Great, I'm glad he is, that is a damn job prerequisite, but we are paying him to win basketball games and get us to the NCAA, not meet basic job requirements.
 
I'm just wondering what would a different coach have accomplished this past two years with this team. I used to be sorry for the guys on the team, but then they defended Mooney totally after the billboard (when all we were trying to do was get them a better coach). So I guess if they think their coach is so great, they must be blaming themselves.
 
Agreed. But if you fire Mooney after this season, with the records he has the past 2 seasons - that would mean the University really does care about Athletics and is serious about winning and making NCAA appearances. They have done nothing in the past that signals that behavior, and for that reason I think this is a moot point - Mooney will be back not only next year (when the team will likely be in a rebuild), but likely at least 2 years after that. I am assuming next year with the rebuild we finish around .500, next season you will see some improvement and the message will be - we are right path - then the 3rd season will become a make or break season.
I agree. It’s really amazing that three years ago we were saying that this year would be a make or break season. And somehow it’s unlikely we will neither make nor break it.
 
You can only fault Mooney but so much. His boss doesn’t care if he wins so what do we expect Mooney to do? He’s not going to just resign. We all know what our bosses want and we focus our efforts accordingly.
 
Since lacrosse is basically a non-revenue sport, and basketball is, why would we change.
During down years we draw paying crowds and get TV revenue. Dropping down a conference after
spending millions on the upgrade to Robins doesn’t make any sense either,
Should Davison drop down, or even a LaSalle or St. Joe?
No, that doesn’t make sense.
 
Since lacrosse is basically a non-revenue sport, and basketball is, why would we change.
During down years we draw paying crowds and get TV revenue. Dropping down a conference after
spending millions on the upgrade to Robins doesn’t make any sense either,
Should Davison drop down, or even a LaSalle or St. Joe?
No, that doesn’t make sense.
Davidson, St. Joes and La Salle have all been to the NCAAs more recently than us. Davidson has actually been to 4 of the 8 NCAAs since our 2011 appearance.

Team Appearances since 2011
------- makes it essential every year----------
VCU 7
-------about every other year----------
Davidson 4
Dayton 4
St. Louis 4
--------about once per class---------
St. Bonaventure 2
URI 2
St. Joes 2
-------about once every other class----------
UMass 1
GW 1
La Salle 1
-------????---------
Duquesne 0
Richmond 0
GMU 0
Fordham 0

Why have 10 of the other 13 A10 schools made the NCAAs in the past 8 years but not us? Why can VCU, Davidson, Dayton and SLU all make the NCAAs at least half the time from the A10, and not us? With our current trajectory, when is the next time we can expect to make the tournament?
 
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Since lacrosse is basically a non-revenue sport, and basketball is, why would we change.
During down years we draw paying crowds and get TV revenue. Dropping down a conference after
spending millions on the upgrade to Robins doesn’t make any sense either,
Should Davison drop down, or even a LaSalle or St. Joe?
No, that doesn’t make sense.

how much tv revenue does men’s bball bring in? Serious question.
 
Since lacrosse is basically a non-revenue sport, and basketball is, why would we change.
During down years we draw paying crowds and get TV revenue. Dropping down a conference after
spending millions on the upgrade to Robins doesn’t make any sense either,
Should Davison drop down, or even a LaSalle or St. Joe?
No, that doesn’t make sense.
Good points.
Not to mention while football is down right now, the ACC schools are willing to pay us $250K or more for a tune up game every year. The Patriot League is a joke. I would guess we would not get those type games as a member of that conference. I will leave it at that, since this is the basketball board.
 
The Patriot league is not the solution, but if UR were to move into that conference it would be because of the stellar AD that UR currently has. The CAA would be the move. It is a better fit geographically and obviously was the former conference affiliation for that very reason. It also has a great reputation in FCS football. UR stepped up to the A10 and it simply hasn’t done what it was supposed to do. Why? Because no one in the athletic department nor the administration cared. Everything has to be cared for and managed. The Broad St boys have done what UR couldn’t do. No leadership = no results.
 
how much tv revenue does men’s bball bring in? Serious question.

i seem to remember reading something a few years back that suggested the per-school share of the A10 TV contract was between $400,000-500,000 per school per year. Not a huge pile of money but not a pittance.

Also, i'm under the impression that the TV money is an even split. Fordham gets the same amount as a Dayton or VCU who are on TV much more.

The NCAA unit revenue is the one titled heavily toward the school that earns the units.
 
Davidson, St. Joes and La Salle have all been to the NCAAs more recently than us. Davidson has actually been to 4 of the 8 NCAAs since our 2011 appearance.

Team Appearances since 2011
------- makes it essential every year----------
VCU 7
-------about every other year----------
Davidson 4
Dayton 4
St. Louis 4
--------about once per class---------
St. Bonaventure 2
URI 2
St. Joes 2
-------about once every other class----------
UMass 1
GW 1
La Salle 1
-------????---------
Duquesne 0
Richmond 0
GMU 0
Fordham 0

Why have 10 of the other 13 A10 schools made the NCAAs in the past 8 years but not us? Why can VCU, Davidson, Dayton and SLU all make the NCAAs at least half the time from the A10, and not us? With our current trajectory, when is the next time we can expect to make the tournament?
2011, we used to have some great battles. Let me just say, "Welcome to the Dark Side" my friend.
 
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i seem to remember reading something a few years back that suggested the per-school share of the A10 TV contract was between $400,000-500,000 per school per year. Not a huge pile of money but not a pittance.

Also, i'm under the impression that the TV money is an even split. Fordham gets the same amount as a Dayton or VCU who are on TV much more.

The NCAA unit revenue is the one titled heavily toward the school that earns the units.

I don’t doubt your memory (most of the time), but that sounds like a big number for the league to get from its TV partners - that would be $7M ish annually from the hodgepodge of ESPN/NBC sports/CBS.

Our biggest miss in the last 10 years is having the earned unit well run completely dry.
 
I don’t doubt your memory (most of the time), but that sounds like a big number for the league to get from its TV partners - that would be $7M ish annually from the hodgepodge of ESPN/NBC sports/CBS.

Our biggest miss in the last 10 years is having the earned unit well run completely dry.
VCU gets $2.2 million/year through its own media rights deal. $7 million/year to televise all the A-10 games doesn't seem real big.
 
Davidson, St. Joes and La Salle have all been to the NCAAs more recently than us. Davidson has actually been to 4 of the 8 NCAAs since our 2011 appearance.

Team Appearances since 2011
------- makes it essential every year----------
VCU 7
-------about every other year----------
Davidson 4
Dayton 4
St. Louis 4
--------about once per class---------
St. Bonaventure 2
URI 2
St. Joes 2
-------about once every other class----------
UMass 1
GW 1
La Salle 1
-------????---------
Duquesne 0
Richmond 0
GMU 0
Fordham 0

Why have 10 of the other 13 A10 schools made the NCAAs in the past 8 years but not us? Why can VCU, Davidson, Dayton and SLU all make the NCAAs at least half the time from the A10, and not us? With our current trajectory, when is the next time we can expect to make the tournament?
My comments were to the poster that suggested we drop down a league. I’m totally opposed to that line of thinking,
based on what I said. Your remarks about us not making the Big Dance is another story and I’d be hard pressed to answer why we should drop down a league with or without Mooney. I’d much prefer to improve in the A-10 than play in the CAA for example.
 
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Basketball or football is usually the revenue sport. In some cases both are the revenue sports. I can't imagine supporting a program that doesn't value winning championships. Constantly make excuses avoid questions. That's what we do here.
 
Is our athletic programs worth saving? Yes, of course it is. But until they start caring themselves about it, their isn't a whole lot most of us can do. If you can stroke a 7 figure check, sure I guess they might give you their ear, but if you can't they have made it pretty abundantly clear that they just don't give a crap about you.

So, the question then becomes, should you care about them anymore?
 
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Is our athletic programs worth saving? Yes, of course it is. But until they start caring themselves about it, their isn't a whole lot most of us can do. If you can stroke a 7 figure check, sure I guess they might give you their ear, but if you can't they have made it pretty abundantly clear that they just don't give a crap about you.

So, the question then becomes, should you care about them anymore?

The season tickets are so cheap anyway I can't envision myself not getting them again next season but I am certainly questioning my desire to see MooneyBall version 17.0 in a full fledged rebuilding year with my own eyes. Next season is shaping up to be very hard to stomach. Guess I have several months to figure it out regardless.
 
The season tickets are so cheap anyway I can't envision myself not getting them again next season but I am certainly questioning my desire to see MooneyBall version 17.0 in a full fledged rebuilding year with my own eyes. Next season is shaping up to be very hard to stomach. Guess I have several months to figure it out regardless.
True. It is literally the cheapest ticket in town. I can get prime location season tickets at UR for the price of one nose bleed ticket to one UVA-Duke/UNC game.

The fact that we rely on one mega donor to float us and instead give up on the myriad of other real revenue streams out there (tickets, NCAA money, more TV money) if we had a really high level competitive program. Not to mention all of the many other positive benefits and exposure for the entire university for having a top notch men's basketball program. I just can't imagine when our leadership team gets together and considers all of this and then says, yeah, were good with this guy Mooney continuing to lead the program. Just absolutely zero vision for what we could be.
 
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