- Non-revenue sports more interested in displaying social justice messages insulting to large swath of the remaining fanbase than performing at a championship level.
Richmond Athletics: Worth Saving? If so, How?
- Thread starter MolivaManiac
- Start date
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
My concern is that we are not coming close to bringing in new fans to replace older generations of Spider fans. There is a guy in my neighborhood that is a UR Law grad and we chat Spider hoops and college ball pretty regularly but he for some reason has no desire to actually attend games or anything like that at all. I have invited him to a game using one of my spare season tickets or offered him all of my tickets for a particular game if we were going to be out of town and he always, always has an excuse of why he can't go. How is that going to look when we are at 25% capacity for every home game besides random P5 non conference games and VCU?
If you support the Women's Basketball Team raising money for community bailout funds and the Athletics Department using their platform to trumpet it, go ahead and contribute to the community bailout funds and celebrate the Women's hoops team for doing it. Maybe this will be the big move that gets a big audience to show up for UR Women's hoops.
I don't support it and i know i'm not standing alone.
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8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
"or offered him all of my tickets for a particular game if we were going to be out of town"
That's when every game becomes a kids club game and you can get the whole family in for less than $20 - going the minor league entertainment route vs. trying to build a passionate fan base.
Guess you'd be more comfortable had they invaded the Capitol like "real 'Mericuns."
And yes, I do financially support UR women's basketball. My thank-you note from coach and the nice women's basketball water bottle I got for contributing are on my work desk. Good on these women for having a sense of social justice and the moxie to back it up with action. I intend to increase my contribution in the 21-22 fiscal year.
I think taking either tack would be a poor choice for a business with a declining number of customers.
Here's a new one- Fire Mooney, Fire Hardt, and Fire Huesman. Right now, mid-season.
Agree with everything you said there. So what will make the school change course? Aside from just 'waiting it out for a sunnier day', what can we do?
We can ride out the storm but will there be a boat left when we get on the other side of it? (regatta ref.)
We have a social justice warrior with his participation water bottle! Wonderful!!
i want to be clear on something. I should have left my cloaked gripes about the Women's basketball team out of my original post. Let's leave the politics out of it. I guess i started it - my fault, i'm sorry - but i'd also like to end it. Can we do that? Duke it out on off-topic.
Let's keep moving this thread along towards the bigger thrust of my post because i feel like we are at a crossroads here and it seems like others might be feeling the same way.
Let's keep moving this thread along towards the bigger thrust of my post because i feel like we are at a crossroads here and it seems like others might be feeling the same way.
Over the past few years I have become much less engaged in spider athletics. The ad needs to take a long sober look at the programs here and make some tough decisions. Not sure we are good at making tough decisions.
If Mooney is ever going to be fired, it must be after this season, right?
If Mooney is ever going to be fired, it must be after this season, right?
How many University Presidents has he worked for? ADs? How many football coaches has he seen come and go? The dude is bullet proof.
Duke is not small, nor a liberal arts college. They are a fairly large research university, (~16k enrollment) though they are private.
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Agreed, this is a good thread. We can choose to muck it up with off topic conversations and it will devolve as other threads have.
In so far as that, I honestly don't want the conversation to go even towards firing Mooney either. In my opinion, Mooney is a but a symptom of a larger problem which is an insular athletic department that operates largely in a bubble ignoring major segments of its audience.
I was hoping Hardt would change that instead he fell right in lock step with the direction we were already marching.
Mo, I don't know what we can be done, but I do know if the Athletic Department chooses to bury its head in the sand some more and as you said, hope for sunnier days, that to me reflects wishful thinking versus proactive planning. I hope someone in the athletic department follow this thread and maybe does something proactive and different that what they have been doing.
Hey I'm just the idea guy!!
So idk but I'd say I think starting with media pressure on social media, the radio shows, etc. have a building effect. It seemed like UR fans were doing that years ago but stopped. That's not my bag. I look at social media but non participant. This board is my outlet. Maybe that should change and I should get engaged. But I'd say to those that can, start there at least. I think public pressure in media opens UR eyes more than private. Unfortunately the private doesn't for whatever reason.
1 problem is they scrub the negative for most part and good luck getting someone like Philly Bob to take tweets texts calls in. I don't think they do anything that isn't very benign. Local guys might know how the shows work better.
undergrad is only about 6500 you may be right about the research, I have always understood the undergrad was more liberal arts
The person mostly listened to me and seemed to do a good job of it. I did sense that they had been hearing quite a bit about the men's basketball team's inability to stay on the court.
Here's an idea i had last night that can use some refining.
The Spider Athletic Fund used to be unaffiliated with the University. What happens if there are a group of 'like-minded people' - perhaps even having the same diploma on their wall - that organized a small business/non-profit/whatever structure - for the purpose of supporting causes in need? Say youth sports organizations in the Richmond area.
The group might raise some donations and sell logo apparel that displays our unifying principles and exist for the sole purpose of donating money to charities. It's "books" would be totally transparent to anyone interested in participating. It wouldn't mention any of our University's high earners by name.
When we get back to having sporting events to attend, people might see this logo/merch on people and raise awareness.
Call it 'Broken Legs' implying that the Spider and it's 8-legs are no longer moving how they should be. I'm not a marketing guy and open to better ideas.
Just spit-ballin'.
The Spider Athletic Fund used to be unaffiliated with the University. What happens if there are a group of 'like-minded people' - perhaps even having the same diploma on their wall - that organized a small business/non-profit/whatever structure - for the purpose of supporting causes in need? Say youth sports organizations in the Richmond area.
The group might raise some donations and sell logo apparel that displays our unifying principles and exist for the sole purpose of donating money to charities. It's "books" would be totally transparent to anyone interested in participating. It wouldn't mention any of our University's high earners by name.
When we get back to having sporting events to attend, people might see this logo/merch on people and raise awareness.
Call it 'Broken Legs' implying that the Spider and it's 8-legs are no longer moving how they should be. I'm not a marketing guy and open to better ideas.
Just spit-ballin'.
UR does not recognize the synergy between a successful athletic program and rigorous academics. Put those two together, you have a special place and one that will garner lots of positive national publicity.
Horse of a different color, flagship state university, but UVA gets it and have leveraged their brand nationally. Something like 20 or 21 national championships in various sports over a few decades. They are committed to athletic success to complement their high academic standards. UR is not.
May as well put a sign on Boatwright Drive:
University of Richmond
Where academic excellence is expected and
Athletic mediocrity is tolerated.
Horse of a different color, flagship state university, but UVA gets it and have leveraged their brand nationally. Something like 20 or 21 national championships in various sports over a few decades. They are committed to athletic success to complement their high academic standards. UR is not.
May as well put a sign on Boatwright Drive:
University of Richmond
Where academic excellence is expected and
Athletic mediocrity is tolerated.
Big difference for Duke and UR is Duke went the whole graduate school route - Divinity, Medical, Business, and Law. Expanded their footprint and publicity as well as influential alumni and big donors who enjoy the athletic reputation.
Yep, one disappointment I had when the University decided not to expand the graduate programs. I've always thought they boosted the perception of the undergraduate academic level
Xavier, Villanova, St. Mary’s California, Gonzaga, Loyola Chicago and Davidson in our own league are reasons Why we have no excuse to be where we are. No we should not leave the A10, we just need to look at all those schools and ask what are they doing that we aren’t and try to be more like them.
"or offered him all of my tickets for a particular game if we were going to be out of town"
Did you try telling him it was a Final Four game?
Sorry, had to. I promise we can still be friends.
Basketball is the flagship, and the flagship has been sinking for 10 years. Maybe it would be tolerable if the coach made $350k instead of $1.3m. The athletic department’s failure to deal with this misallocation of resources and squandered opportunity is a disappointment. Any and all criticism of the athletic department regarding MBB is warranted.
Football is tricky. Our AD inherited the majority of that mess. The next few years will say a lot about the school’s commitment to producing a football team that can compete for CAA championships again. I believe it is possible.
Basketball must be dealt with swiftly, but I will defend the AD and the school for everything else. The ship has been righted in WBB and Soccer. The new FH coach is outstanding. The fact that some MLAX fans are frustrated by late losses to teams like Loyola this year and MD last year is indicative of how good our men’s team actually is. We’re pissed when we lose against top 10 teams. Excellent! We’re competing against the best teams in the fastest growing sport in the country, and getting better each year. Women’s lacrosse has locked up their coach with a contract and their results have been similarly impressive. It is conceivable that MLAX or WLAX could win a national championship someday.
Baseball will always be a challenge at a school like UR. Maybe coach can find the next Sean Casey?
And perhaps most importantly, the facilities are second to none — especially when compared to other A10 schools. All of the pieces of the puzzle are in place. Nearly every team can compete for an A10 championship. Several teams can compete in the NCAA championships. And yet, the flagship is still sinking.
I find it utterly perplexing that the University is so committed to winning (and largely delivering) in most of the other sports, but so seemingly indifferent to the dismal MBB results. This makes no sense.
As fans, I think we lose credibility when we say ”the AD sucks and the school doesn’t care about sports and we should go to the Patriot League”. What we should be asking is why there are appropriately high standards for other sports (yes — football remains a fair question mark) but complete indifference to the flagship.
Fix MBB and the glass goes from half empty to 7/8 full.
Football is tricky. Our AD inherited the majority of that mess. The next few years will say a lot about the school’s commitment to producing a football team that can compete for CAA championships again. I believe it is possible.
Basketball must be dealt with swiftly, but I will defend the AD and the school for everything else. The ship has been righted in WBB and Soccer. The new FH coach is outstanding. The fact that some MLAX fans are frustrated by late losses to teams like Loyola this year and MD last year is indicative of how good our men’s team actually is. We’re pissed when we lose against top 10 teams. Excellent! We’re competing against the best teams in the fastest growing sport in the country, and getting better each year. Women’s lacrosse has locked up their coach with a contract and their results have been similarly impressive. It is conceivable that MLAX or WLAX could win a national championship someday.
Baseball will always be a challenge at a school like UR. Maybe coach can find the next Sean Casey?
And perhaps most importantly, the facilities are second to none — especially when compared to other A10 schools. All of the pieces of the puzzle are in place. Nearly every team can compete for an A10 championship. Several teams can compete in the NCAA championships. And yet, the flagship is still sinking.
I find it utterly perplexing that the University is so committed to winning (and largely delivering) in most of the other sports, but so seemingly indifferent to the dismal MBB results. This makes no sense.
As fans, I think we lose credibility when we say ”the AD sucks and the school doesn’t care about sports and we should go to the Patriot League”. What we should be asking is why there are appropriately high standards for other sports (yes — football remains a fair question mark) but complete indifference to the flagship.
Fix MBB and the glass goes from half empty to 7/8 full.
I know Mo. I think what he really is implying is that many, if not most, of us embrace sports (especially our Spiders) in order to get a mental and emotional break from politics, covid, taxes, lost jobs, lost relationships, lost lives; and all the other bullshit that brings us down. All of this is serious, relevant, and mostly worthwhile, but can we just leave it out of sports? Sports are an outlet that BRINGS US ALL TOGETHER. I don't want to be constantly reminded of all the world's problems while all I'm trying to do is watch a game.
I think the message has been loud and clear and nonstop since last June. Does it make one a bigot, sexist, or a hater just for asking to leave sports alone? Don't students have many other platforms in which to get their message out?
Mo, please correct me if this is not what you meant.
problem being the next pres will be hired by the same board
Has anyone ever tried leaving a negative review on Yelp? Maybe that will turn the tide.
RICHMOND ATHLETICS *
"The atmosphere was beautiful, but I found this place to be lacking in many ways. I tried to make reservations many times and no one called me back. So I just drove down there one day and to my surprise was able to just walk right in for $5 and take my pick of seats. I sampled the famed $7 stale Papa John's cheese pizza, but I was less than impressed. The people in charge seemed not to be paying attention to what their middle management leaders were doing, and I saw a lot of questionable decision-making in just an hour. After about 90 minutes, someone shot a small red ball out of an air cannon that hit me in the face. I left and don't plan to return, unless maybe 8legs1dream offers me some free tickets."
RICHMOND ATHLETICS *
"The atmosphere was beautiful, but I found this place to be lacking in many ways. I tried to make reservations many times and no one called me back. So I just drove down there one day and to my surprise was able to just walk right in for $5 and take my pick of seats. I sampled the famed $7 stale Papa John's cheese pizza, but I was less than impressed. The people in charge seemed not to be paying attention to what their middle management leaders were doing, and I saw a lot of questionable decision-making in just an hour. After about 90 minutes, someone shot a small red ball out of an air cannon that hit me in the face. I left and don't plan to return, unless maybe 8legs1dream offers me some free tickets."
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I come in peace Spider fans. I went to VCU but some of my best friends are former Spider athletes from the late 80s era. I remember envying UR Athletics at every level and being amazed how such a small school could be so highly regarded in athletics. You had Olympians, huge hoops upsets, Johnny Newman... You had (and still have) amazing facilities and venues and one of the most beautiful campuses in the country. And that rich heritage of athletic excellence is still in there and can re-emerge. All the ingredients are still there. You should stay in the A10 and figure this thing out. From the outside looking in, I think its leadership issues (that have now maligned the culture within the dept). I think if you can finally make some changes at the top, you are back to where you were. Good luck.
I applaud the idea but be careful what you wish for. I think the reality you (and they) may find is one where a significant percentage of those surveyed are happy with performance or don’t give a crap, which will bolster some argument supporting the status quo.
Not that I’m a cheerleader for Hardt, but he did replace Shafer with a coach who seems to have redirected the women’s basketball team. So he is willing and perhaps capable, the question of course is would he do the same with CM. I actually haven’t given up hope.
You may well be correct but, subsequent to such an outreach, each of us then has the data to make an ongoing contribution decision. It may not make a difference re the program’s desired direction, after all dollars and not individuals vote, but each of us will have made our appropriate decision.
Totally agree with this post in general. The main point is UR moved to the A10 FOR Men’s basketball, which is the sport in which it is unable to compete. So the logic is that you need to move to a conference that suits the current basketball culture if that is the culture that is going to remain.
The lesson seems to be that paying a coach one of the highest salaries in the conference does not guarantee success. UR is not getting what they expected to get and based on recruiting is nowhere near where they need to be for future years either.
LAX is definitely the shining star for both the Women and Men currently and is the new sport on the block. Definitely a high standard and great coaches. Of course, there is no A10 men’s lacrosse, so you can’t say that is a reason to stay in the A10.
Once again for the record, I am not a UR grad and I guess I am somewhat of a new fan. I went to games in the Newman years when I was a kid, saw UR upset Auburn in person, had a long time away, and now have been going to games for 8 years regularly. My kids went with me to games and this somehow lead to me becoming a UR Dad. So I really feel badly for you guys who have much more history than I. The answer seems so simple, but for some reason UR can’t make the call.
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