Richmond Athletics: Worth Saving? If so, How?

[MolivaManiac]

This post is meant as a genuine one. Is UR Athletics as we know it worth saving or is it time to accept that Richmond should be honest with itself and move its full complement of sports to the Patriot League? The pandemic has certainly been a contributing factor lately but i just don't sense that many people are buying with UR is "selling" any longer. True apathy has set in. Specifically:

• Basketball is basketball. Its been discussed ad nauseum and nothing will change.
• Football is struggling to field a full coaching staff and roster of players large enough to compete in the CAA and FCS. If they sell season tickets this fall, i'd be surprised if we sell 1500 of them.
• Lacrosse has flirted with success but seems intent on snagging losses from the jaws of victory whenever necessary.
• An athletics department staffer roster loaded with overhead and some nebulous job titles supporting very marginal competitive success. Others that are just motivated to perpetuate the status quo for personal reasons.
• Non-revenue sports more interested in displaying social justice messages insulting to large swath of the remaining fanbase than performing at a championship level.
• An AD leader generally lacking of charisma and showing minimal interest in making personal connections.
• A big donor that seems contented with his friendships with the big earners in the department and seeking little more from them.

As our older supporters die off, i just don't see any sort of 'bench' of passionate supporters with any interest in 'back filling'. In 20 years, this "fanbase" looks like a few deep-pocketed donors and player parents and not much more.

Speaking personally, i'm down to buying football tickets and the minimum to park at football games so my family can tailgate with friends but that's it.

Is that *just* what Richmond athletics is? If so, OK...let's accept it and move to the Patriot. I think i'm at a point where i can live with it.

If it's something more that that, how do we get it back?

 

[KE Spider]

Is that *just* what Richmond athletics is?

Yes, sadly. No true will to do what is necessary to be successful, but will pridefully boast about our facilities. Big hat. No cattle.

 

[MolivaManiac]

Response to the above two posts. So why do we keep supporting? There are plenty of causes that are important to our communities that truly need our time and treasures.

Why are we wasting those resources on Richmond athletics? Just because it's a bad drug and this is what you do with bad drugs?

 

[8legs1dream]

I have a buddy that is a big Mason fan and he often feels the same way we do that as much as you hate to admit it we are in over our heads here in the A10 maybe a conference change of scenery would do us good? If they refuse to get rid of MoonPie then something has to change

 

[GKiller]

Yes, sadly. No true will to do what is necessary to be successful, but will pridefully boast about our facilities. Big hat. No cattle.

Hey that’s my line!!

Fine I’ll steal Spider23’s. Shut up and give us your money. That’s what they do in Iowa.

Moliva to answer your question yes I sincerely believe we can get it back.

New blood. Get the right new blood in the key positions and that’s all it takes. But as Ferrum said first thing is self awareness which we currently lack.

 

[Eight Legger]

VT hired Young two years ago, all their players either graduated or transferred and now look at them.

 

[MolivaManiac]

A couple years ago i was making $2000 a year in donations to Spider athletics and spending another $1800 on season tickets to the big sports. Now i'm spending $600 on football tickets and a $150 parking pass.

How many people like me giving them $3000 less than before will it take for them to notice? Or is the answer "it just doesn't matter" because Paul will just fill in any shortfalls? I guess that's what it really boils down to, right?

 

[SpiderK]

A couple years ago i was making $2000 a year in donations to Spider athletics and spending another $1800 on season tickets to the big sports. Now i'm spending $600 on football tickets and a $150 parking pass.

How many people like me giving them $3000 less than before will it take for them to notice? Or is the answer "it just doesn't matter" because Paul will just fill in any shortfalls? I guess that's what it really boils down to, right?

Our family did almost exactly the same thing, except we bagged the football tickets too. Just going to a single games here and there.

 

[Gospiders06]

I said this earlier in the year. We won a national title in football at the fcs level. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal. At least it brought something positive to the university. Now both programs are in a rut.

 

[DTSpider]

Mo - your story sounds just like mine. So far no one has cared or lifted a finger to reach out (other than UR football sends thanks for buying season tickets). UR athletics doesnt seem to care about me. But I’m too foolish to completely turn away from this bad marriage. I keep remembering the good times...

 

[Ferrum Spider]

Response to the above two posts. So why do we keep supporting? There are plenty of causes that are important to our communities that truly need our time and treasures.

Why are we wasting those resources on Richmond athletics? Just because it's a bad drug and this is what you do with bad drugs?

Funny you mention that. Started a business and also dog fostering during covid so the support and interest has waned considerably even before this season started taking a nosedive. Realized there are more important things in life. Doing some freedom rides for dogs that would of otherwise been euthanized most college football saturdays. That felt a hell of a lot more fulfilling than paying 80 bucks to watch JMU kick your face in at home with 75% duke fans in attendance.

I wouldn't blame a single soul for not wanting a ticket to the freak show this has/is/continues to evolve into.

Not that the athletic department cares about a lifelong spider fan since his childhood with little discretionary money at his disposal yet still bought season tickets every year.

Edit: Looks like I accidentally deleted my post from above earlier talking about how it doesnt matter until the people that are in power admit we have a problem.

 

[ur2K]

I think considering the resources and facilities in place, UR can complete at this level. It’s going to take a complete gut job of the leadership to get there, but I don’t think that’s in the cards. So the regatta will continue to drift along with no wind in its sails.

Sounds like lots of have cut contributions/purchases recently, but I don’t think they give a rip as long as the big $ is still coming in from PQ. The people who are in charge of soliciting donations have done pretty much nothing to cultivate relationships with younger mid level donors to back fill the older folks who make up a large part of our fanbase. There seemed to be an effort 10ish years ago, but those staffers have moved on.

The powers that be don’t give a damn, as evidenced by them saying in the recent past that they can just generate new fans.

 

[64Spider]

You gotta have a product to sell!

 

[Eight Legger]

I would have given anything tonight to see just one of our guys level someone on vcu the way Burton was trucked with no foul called. Get angry. Get pissed off. Show any emotion.Something to show that they gave a damn. But as usual they pretty much all reflect Mooney's soft attitude, letting lose balls roll to the other team, leaving their man so he can walk to the basket for a dunk, missing 12 layups right at the rim, watching as rebounds are collected by the opponent. It reminded me of our overall athletic department, just sort of coasting along and doing the same thing it always does, getting largely the same result and apparently not really caring either way.

 

[KE Spider]

Response to the above two posts. So why do we keep supporting? There are plenty of causes that are important to our communities that truly need our time and treasures.

Why are we wasting those resources on Richmond athletics? Just because it's a bad drug and this is what you do with bad drugs?

Like catnip, no matter how disappointed and disgusted with the school's approach to athletics, I am drawn to every contest. Desperately want my school to be successful in all spheres. I am a proud Spider.

But I'm sick of this crap year after year. Gave up my basketball tickets a few years ago. The sham in that program has been obvious for some years. If you can't build a sustained successful program in 15 years what makes anyone believe the 16th year will be different? When it comes to any empirical evidence supporting the retention of Mooney, we have reached the ridiculous state.

Reduced athletic contributions by 50%. Took the opportunity to contribute the money to those organizations truly committed to their stated goals. When it come to athletics, UR is not. Very disappointed in a school I hold dear.

 

[Marley13]

Absolutely correct EL. This team plays soft. Definitely a product of their coach. No fire at all. Would love to see a good old fashioned clothes line on someone just once as they cruise down the lane- The Longest Yard style.

 

[Spiders05]

This is what kills me. I know a good number of you on a personal level. You're invested. You want us to achieve the greatness you know we can (and have). I too feel the apathy. Grew up on football but team's decline and Saturday's becoming filled with kid activities have become big enough excuses to ditch the season tix. I may make one game a season now (do watch on TV/internet when I can).

Basketball is a bit different for our family but understand others' feelings here. The status quo isn't working. That isn't a comment about any specific team/program but about our University as a whole.

 

[whampas]

I think considering the resources and facilities in place, UR can complete at this level. It’s going to take a complete gut job of the leadership to get there, but I don’t think that’s in the cards. So the regatta will continue to drift along with no wind in its sails.

Sounds like lots of have cut contributions/purchases recently, but I don’t think they give a rip as long as the big $ is still coming in from PQ. The people who are in charge of soliciting donations have done pretty much nothing to cultivate relationships with younger mid level donors to back fill the older folks who make up a large part of our fanbase. There seemed to be an effort 10ish years ago, but those staffers have moved on.

The powers that be don’t give a damn, as evidenced by them saying in the recent past that they can just generate new fans.

"New fans" will move down the street. It's easier to follow a winner. Unless major changes are made UR athletics will wither and die. I stopped donating, gave up basketball season tickets 3 years ago and swore to not enter the RC again until Mooney is gone,, and may do the same with football after this year. It sucks to be so irrelevant.

 

[Ferrum Spider]

Absolutely correct EL. This team plays soft. Definitely a product of their coach. No fire at all. Would love to see a good old fashioned clothes line on someone just once as they cruise down the lane- The Longest Yard style.

Would of love if we opened up the game like this tonight. Only with a basketball.

 

[Spider B]

We have the resources, facilities, and conference affiliation to be regular participant in the NCAA tournament in basketball.

We have won the national championship in football with far less facilities than we have now and have proven we can be a top 10 program in FCS.

We just lack the leadership to meet our full potential. No need to change conferences. Change the leadership @ the school. I too have cut my donation in half and only buy season tickets now because my kids love going to the games. It is sad we are where we are

 

[Spider Bob79]

Molina: I feel the same. In fact, I was about to start a similar thread when I saw your post. I just want the school to be honest with itself and all of us (alumni, students, fans). Just make a decision and do now what is necessary to reach that goal. If the administration is content with this level of basketball, then leave the A10 and try to gain entry to the Patriot. The Patriot is filled with solid small liberal arts academic colleges, like UR-Colgate, Lehigh, Bucknell, etc., It’s a great fit academically. Also, we wouldn’t have our baseball team and other teams traveling by bus to Mass., Dayton, St. Louis, ... I can live with that change. In fact, a few years ago, I saw Bucknell beat us on a last second shot. Recently, Colgate has been impressive in basketball. So, as others have said in this thread, the school must either improve its own athletic staff and thinking and strive to win at the A10 level, or get out!

 

[SpiderTrap]

Worth saving - I think so. There is no reason, with the right investment and change in some policies and rules at the school that we can be a top tier program in FCS Football, A10 basketball, and Lacrosse. For football - I would think the expectation should be a ranked top 25 each year and every couple of years winning a game or two in the playoffs and making a run to the championship. Not saying we will win it each year like North Dakota, but no reason we shouldn't be knocking on the door of the final four every so often.
Basketball - I don't think its too much to ask to be a top 4 A10 team on a consistent basis. I feel if you finish in the top 4 of the A10 in MOST years, you are likely on the bubble for the NCAA or going NIT. And if you do that enough, some times you will make NCAA and others will not.
Lacrosse - simply because there are not many lacrosse teams, we should be top of our conference each year and progressing to winning a game in the tourney.

But again and again our school doesn't see athletics as a priority. Late in getting football stadium on campus. Late in getting renovations and practice facility. Cutting sports and not only cutting them, but saying the reason is 1) Money (hard to say when you have a 3 billion endowment) and 2) The student-athletes water down the general academic population (not a good thing to say out loud). I have said many times - I always get the feeling UR wants to do just enough to stay competitive, but doesn't want to take the next step - which might require more money, relaxing admission requirements, and may result in a bad apple getting in here and there. They don't want that risk and therefore, we will stay what we have always been. Giant killers who go to sleep for a couple of years, then get a good team that wins, but then goes back to sleep.

 

[Spiderwiz]

For those who have reduced expenditures be it in contributions, tickets or both, has anyone experienced any sort of athletic department outreach in response? So far, it seems no one has had any "what's going on?" contacts and I am curious if this is across the board?

 

[Eight Legger]

Cut all sports except lacrosse. They are the only teams punching higher than they should.

 

[SFspidur]

It's entirely up to the school, but the current situation is absurd. We're throwing a decent amount of money at things but we're not committed to winning, so we're in this terrible spot.

Basketball is our flagship sport, and most of our other sports took a hit in order to chase at-large bids for hoops in the A-10. We've earned two of them in two decades (none in the past decade, obviously), and who knows how many auto bids we could have gotten from a lower-level conference over that time. We're dancing less often than we were in the CAA, so what are we doing? Either make the full commitment to being a top tier team in the A-10 or drop to the Patriot and focus on winning it all there.

 

[plydogg]

I got two calls from Richmond asking for donations the past month. Both times I told the person I would not be donating any further to the school until Chris Mooney was fired.

Both people responded “who is that?”

 

[plydogg]

Non-revenue sports more interested in displaying social justice messages insulting to large swath of the remaining fanbase than performing at a championship level.

Can I ask for some clarification or expansion on this bullet point? I only watch men’s and women’s basketball so haven’t watched any of the other sports to know what type of displays they have done here. Thanks in advance

 

[urfan1]

For those who have reduced expenditures be it in contributions, tickets or both, has anyone experienced any sort of athletic department outreach in response? So far, it seems no one has had any "what's going on?" contacts and I am curious if this is across the board?

Not exactly the same, but I had a call with staff the other day, billed as a chance to talk about UR athletics. My take of the call, any general question I asked (eg any insight you can reveal) was responded along the line of I don't know, I don't follow, I left the call with the feeling they wanted to know three things, how I felt about the program, would I continue to support, and the anticipated level of my contributions going forward.

 

[urfan1]

It's entirely up to the school, but the current situation is absurd. We're throwing a decent amount of money at things but we're not committed to winning, so we're in this terrible spot.

Basketball is our flagship sport, and most of our other sports took a hit in order to chase at-large bids for hoops in the A-10. We've earned two of them in two decades (none in the past decade, obviously), and who knows how many auto bids we could have gotten from a lower-level conference over that time. We're dancing less often than we were in the CAA, so what are we doing? Either make the full commitment to being a top tier team in the A-10 or drop to the Patriot and focus on winning it all there.

Are you sure they would be willing to invest, or commit to reach the top of the Patriot?

 

[MrTbone]

Not exactly the same, but I had a call with staff the other day, billed as a chance to talk about UR athletics. My take of the call, any general question I asked (eg any insight you can reveal) was responded along the line of I don't know, I don't follow, I left the call with the feeling they wanted to know three things, how I felt about the program, would I continue to support, and the anticipated level of my contributions going forward.

This is interesting. Curious how broad the exploration is.

 

[SFspidur]

Are you sure they would be willing to invest, or commit to reach the top of the Patriot?

Nope.

 

[spider23]

Agree with many on here.

When we left the CAA in hoops, I was actually in the crowd that I battle on here now. We can't compete with Umass and URI and VCU, our academics are too tough and admissions are too hard, and hell we are so good in the CAA that we have a 50/50 shot to win the tourney and get autobid every year. Part of me does think the Patiriot league would be the best fit with the current mindset.

But, seeing other mid majors become powers, and frequent NCAA participants, I have grown to say: Why not us? We have had great coaches in JB and Tarrant. We can recruit big time players on occasion. 80s fan has confirmed from his friend Paul that admissions is not a problem. We have money. Why not? Jabba Hardt needs to step up and be a big time AD, or get out of the way. And PQ needs to put someone in place that can drive excellence in hoops, football and Lacrosse. Thats what has to happen. Hoops can clean house and be an NCAA team in two years with a new leader, and have sustained success.

 

[MolivaManiac]

Not exactly the same, but I had a call with staff the other day, billed as a chance to talk about UR athletics. My take of the call, any general question I asked (eg any insight you can reveal) was responded along the line of I don't know, I don't follow, I left the call with the feeling they wanted to know three things, how I felt about the program, would I continue to support, and the anticipated level of my contributions going forward.

i had a similar phone call.. My feedback was that if the current level of competitiveness was acceptable to the administration, just move all the sports to the Patriot League and save the resources that are required to 'pretend' we want to achieve at a higher level.

I also said that i have come to the personal realization that i'm "throwing good money after bad" for anything beyond the football tickets and parking pass, which i just appreciate for the social aspect with friends. Told the person that i used to be a guy that was 'all in' that came to the realization that my voice and dollars just don't matter to the school.

 

[MolivaManiac]

Nope.

I'm not either. But we'd surely be wasting less money on athletics.

 

[MolivaManiac]

Can I ask for some clarification or expansion on this bullet point? I only watch men’s and women’s basketball so haven’t watched any of the other sports to know what type of displays they have done here. Thanks in advance

Respectfully, i'd prefer to leave the comment there because i don't want to derail the thread, which i believe is important. i probably should have just left it out of my initial post.

 

[urfan1]

Agree with many on here.

When we left the CAA in hoops, I was actually in the crowd that I battle on here now. We can't compete with Umass and URI and VCU, our academics are too tough and admissions are too hard, and hell we are so good in the CAA that we have a 50/50 shot to win the tourney and get autobid every year. Part of me does think the Patiriot league would be the best fit with the current mindset.

But, seeing other mid majors become powers, and frequent NCAA participants, I have grown to say: Why not us? We have had great coaches in JB and Tarrant. We can recruit big time players on occasion. 80s fan has confirmed from his friend Paul that admissions is not a problem. We have money. Why not? Jabba Hardt needs to step up and be a big time AD, or get out of the way. And PQ needs to put someone in place that can drive excellence in hoops, football and Lacrosse. Thats what has to happen. Hoops can clean house and be an NCAA team in two years with a new leader, and have sustained success.

I can agree with some of what you say, but I disagree with one portion. We are who we are, a small liberal arts school that does not "give" open admission to anyone. A very visible option is Duke, (not saying we can be at their level from the A-10). Small liberal arts (more advanced programs than us), competing in a league with large state schools (some with fairly low admission standards) yet they are very competitive in hoops most of the time. Doesn't seem to affect their academic reputation either -- I believe it has more to do with what is acceptable to those in power.

 

[97spiderfan]

This is a great thread, one of the best in a long time and folks are responding accordingly with heartfelt and insightful comments.

What I wish is our athletic department would do some outreach, maybe some focus groups with our committed alumni and fanbase. They would have to be prepared to hear some frank and probably some harsh feedback about how folks are feeling about the status of our athletics. We are committed, we give money, and they should have some appreciation of what is felt by this group and I would bet they even get some ideas on how they could improve things or perhaps it would just help them to confirm the ideas they might already have but have not pulled the trigger on.

As a reference, I have been pretty outspoken with our local school district on their handling of the COVID situation. I'm sure I was seen as a thorn in their side for my constant advocacy and they could have just ignored me. But instead, they reached out, scheduled a time to talk with me and others who felt similarly to me. I have no doubt for the school administrators who sat on that call, that it was not their most favorite day at the office. I think at the end of the day though both sides benefitted, we felt heard and listened too and they were able to get the nuance behind what some of us were advocating for in terms of how they handled COVID. And yes, change did ultimately occur.

None of that happens unless our athletic department takes the serious initiative to make it happen. I frankly don't see them committed to doing something likes this. What I have consistently seen from our athletic department is a highly insular instinct and that has carried over from Gill to Hardt and it is institutional in nature. We have some bad organizational culture at the RC and that is really tough to change.

Listening to your critics is hard, it isn't pleasant but to be a good leader, you have to do hard and unpleasant things to make yourself and your institution better.

 

[64Spider]

The very reason you are thinking that UR should contact you for input (your decreasing donations) is probably the reason they aren’t.

 

[GKiller]

It can change quickly. It just doesn't always happen organically. We've tried that w Moon. But the right new people in position of leadership make all the difference.

We can be very successful in A10 and nationally. I have no question there. So for me any relegation talk is non starter.

We have some solid structure and that is needed, but got to have the people for fresh energy. That's why it's so strange. so much to offer, great facilities and resources and institutionally we made the decision for UR hoops to be our driver. Which it should be, and it is only real option anyway.

I've said b4 but not making a change is going against what was an institutional decision. Big hat no cattle. We were expecting to get more NCAA money, and we clearly can, but u just have to take that 1 more step and not settle on coaching side. So now u can get into situation where other sports get hurt bc hoops underachieves by a decade of no extra ncaa units via our own participation.

And again accountability. You don't think other employees other coaches look at how much Mooney is protected and that it doesn't hurt culturally. There has to be some resentment. If the $ was coming in no big deal. I just don't like what we stand for. That the highest paid person at UR can consistently fail to meet goals and not be held accountable and instead is Rewarded. It's not personal, it's just the next guy gets his shot. To not do that really goes against the whole mission of a school of our stature forget just athletics.

yet instead some poor soul in facilities is going to get reamed out for not picking up Queally's dog poop fast enough on campus. Stop picking on the little guy its unbecoming. Sh!t shouldn't always roll downhill. Have to be accountable at the top or it doesn't work.

No need to over complicate, it's no seismic shift. It's actually pretty simple imo. A couple key spots and watch.

 

[97spiderfan]

The very reason you are thinking that UR should contact you for input (your decreasing donations) is probably the reason they aren’t.

Oh I fully realize that. And it wasn't about contacting me persay, but rather a broader outreach to committed alumni, season tickets holders, donors via some type of listening/feedback sessions. Shoot, anytime new leadership comes on board that is almost standard practice, but also is common practice when a large portion of our stakeholder base feel that you have drifted away from your core values which made them committed stakeholders in the first place.