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Realistic post season expectations this year

and he won a good number of games with those under the radar guys. just never won the CAA tournament with them.

Well he only got 2 shots at CAA after winning it. And that was during a huge rebuild which he did quickly & well. Lost 1 caa final from joke bank 3 by uncw goon. Final caa year had best team in league but couldn’t play. Then took those same caa guys to A10 final in 1 year. Mooney gone to 2 in 14 years. So went to finals 3 out of 4 possible years. Also beat vcu consistently while Mooney gets his lunch taken by vcu consistently. Then handed Ole Jer a great team. Anyway personally I think Beilein recruited better than given credit for.
 
Lost 1 caa final from joke bank 3 by uncw goon.
that was one of the most painful fan memories. ridiculous.

Anyway personally I think Beilein recruited better than given credit for.
clearly he got us good players. I just meant he didn't often compete for higher ranked guys. he didn't care about that. just guys that could play for him.
 
Coming off 13-20 but everyone returning makes for tough predicting. Better, yes, hard to be worse. I don’t think 8-9 games better, something would have to drastically improve on defense to do that. 5 game swing makes us 18-15 and a mid tier NIT prospect depending on league SOS, and that seems realistic if uninspiring.

If a mid tier NIT result gets CM an extension I may turn in my Spider FanClub card.
 
it obviously included a big coaching change, but the 96/97 team improved by 10 wins in 97/98 with an experienced team coming back.
it can be done.
 
so either you're vastly overestimating our talent, or you think Mooney did an incredible job recruiting the last few years to put this roster together.
Yes, I like the talent. The talent has rarely been a question. The coaching has been a big question.
 
??? by "Dooley took too long" I meant for him.
his team improved from 8 to 13 wins but too little too late. he was let go before he got to coach that class as seniors. I don't know if he would have succeeded as much as Beilein did with that class. we'll never know.

Beilein was a great coach. he wasn't a great recruiter. he never got back to the tournament with us. I'll grant him an asterisk because we weren't allowed in a conference tournament one year, but the fact remains.
I think it was pretty evident that that team was not going to do very much with Dooley as its coach in 97-98. But also evident that there was talent there that Beilein understood how to utilize effectively.
 
Ahhhh - - -- the annual thread where a large group of our fans assess our talent level and predict great things for us. This despite the fact that (1) returning players have never achieved close to the success predicted; (2) new arrivals have not yet played a minute (and are generally ranked (aside from on this board) at lower level than much of the rest of our league) and (3) this coach has never demonstrated an ability to make OK, or even good players, good enough to go to the Dance (Sweet 16 team had GREAT players including the 2nd highest drafted player we have ever had (Harp) and arguably the greatest player we have ever had (KA)). Yet year after year these expectations of NCAA's and 20+ wins etc. keep on coming.

In one sense, I have no real problem with this as one can chalk it up to just fans being fans. But what I just can't figure out is why the overlap between fans with out-sized expectations and Mooney defenders is so strong. To those with expectations every year, this is YOUR assessment of what the team should achieve. But we never do! Then, somehow, when Mooney getting canned gets discussed, much of the same group rushes to his defense? How is that? And this I can't simply write-off to fans being fans. If you are fans of Chris Mooney more than you are fans of UR and its players maybe I guess. But the coach is under performing your own assessment of what the team should accomplish on a consistent basis. The kids to me certainly seem to deserve better (i.e. to be able to achieve what they are capable of), so if you are a fan of theirs I don't see how defending CM sits so easily and if you are a fan of the University more holistically, don't you want (need?) to see the school get more of their dollars and the efforts of so many in the community?

This is why I have such a tough time on this board - - - the Mooney faithful seem to have elevated their love of CM ahead of their love for the school itself or the many players who represent us!

As for my predictions of "realistic" (that's what the thread said) post season expectations - - - I'd put them at slight (NIT) to near zero (NCAA). Again, none of the core (players and coaches) of this group is a proven college winner (a fact I do not blame on players- - (see numerous fire Mooney threads for who I do blame)) and this core in fact has lost 20+ games two years running; people returning from injury often do not return to their former glory (some ever and some at least not in year one) and our injured star is also not a proven collegiate winner even if he does end up being 100%; our freshman have yet to play a minute and are relatively unheralded; our transfer has yet to play a minute for us and his prior NCAA experience was at a level (or two) below us. Our coach has shown nothing with this group (or any group for a bunch of years for that matter) that would indicate he can raise their level. And as for NCAA's - - I think it takes at least 23 wins and probably 24 and possibly even 25 to get us an at-large (look at the past few years and construct a profile for us that you think gets us in with only 21 or 22 wins absent several teams on our schedule significantly outperforming their own expectations). I see very little chance we go from 13 to 24 wins (with an upgraded schedule) in one year. So to me NCAA's is a dream. I do expect us to be better and thus NIT is a slim hope.
 
Ahhhh - - -- the annual thread where a large group of our fans assess our talent level and predict great things for us. This despite the fact that (1) returning players have never achieved close to the success predicted; (2) new arrivals have not yet played a minute (and are generally ranked (aside from on this board) at lower level than much of the rest of our league) and (3) this coach has never demonstrated an ability to make OK, or even good players, good enough to go to the Dance (Sweet 16 team had GREAT players including the 2nd highest drafted player we have ever had (Harp) and arguably the greatest player we have ever had (KA)). Yet year after year these expectations of NCAA's and 20+ wins etc. keep on coming.

In one sense, I have no real problem with this as one can chalk it up to just fans being fans. But what I just can't figure out is why the overlap between fans with out-sized expectations and Mooney defenders is so strong. To those with expectations every year, this is YOUR assessment of what the team should achieve. But we never do! Then, somehow, when Mooney getting canned gets discussed, much of the same group rushes to his defense? How is that? And this I can't simply write-off to fans being fans. If you are fans of Chris Mooney more than you are fans of UR and its players maybe I guess. But the coach is under performing your own assessment of what the team should accomplish on a consistent basis. The kids to me certainly seem to deserve better (i.e. to be able to achieve what they are capable of), so if you are a fan of theirs I don't see how defending CM sits so easily and if you are a fan of the University more holistically, don't you want (need?) to see the school get more of their dollars and the efforts of so many in the community?

This is why I have such a tough time on this board - - - the Mooney faithful seem to have elevated their love of CM ahead of their love for the school itself or the many players who represent us!

As for my predictions of "realistic" (that's what the thread said) post season expectations - - - I'd put them at slight (NIT) to near zero (NCAA). Again, none of the core (players and coaches) of this group is a proven college winner (a fact I do not blame on players- - (see numerous fire Mooney threads for who I do blame)) and this core in fact has lost 20+ games two years running; people returning from injury often do not return to their former glory (some ever and some at least not in year one) and our injured star is also not a proven collegiate winner even if he does end up being 100%; our freshman have yet to play a minute and are relatively unheralded; our transfer has yet to play a minute for us and his prior NCAA experience was at a level (or two) below us. Our coach has shown nothing with this group (or any group for a bunch of years for that matter) that would indicate he can raise their level. And as for NCAA's - - I think it takes at least 23 wins and probably 24 and possibly even 25 to get us an at-large (look at the past few years and construct a profile for us that you think gets us in with only 21 or 22 wins absent several teams on our schedule significantly outperforming their own expectations). I see very little chance we go from 13 to 24 wins (with an upgraded schedule) in one year. So to me NCAA's is a dream. I do expect us to be better and thus NIT is a slim hope.
Strong post
 
Ahhhh - - -- the annual thread where a large group of our fans assess our talent level and predict great things for us. This despite the fact that (1) returning players have never achieved close to the success predicted; (2) new arrivals have not yet played a minute (and are generally ranked (aside from on this board) at lower level than much of the rest of our league) and (3) this coach has never demonstrated an ability to make OK, or even good players, good enough to go to the Dance (Sweet 16 team had GREAT players including the 2nd highest drafted player we have ever had (Harp) and arguably the greatest player we have ever had (KA)). Yet year after year these expectations of NCAA's and 20+ wins etc. keep on coming.

In one sense, I have no real problem with this as one can chalk it up to just fans being fans. But what I just can't figure out is why the overlap between fans with out-sized expectations and Mooney defenders is so strong. To those with expectations every year, this is YOUR assessment of what the team should achieve. But we never do! Then, somehow, when Mooney getting canned gets discussed, much of the same group rushes to his defense? How is that? And this I can't simply write-off to fans being fans. If you are fans of Chris Mooney more than you are fans of UR and its players maybe I guess. But the coach is under performing your own assessment of what the team should accomplish on a consistent basis. The kids to me certainly seem to deserve better (i.e. to be able to achieve what they are capable of), so if you are a fan of theirs I don't see how defending CM sits so easily and if you are a fan of the University more holistically, don't you want (need?) to see the school get more of their dollars and the efforts of so many in the community?

This is why I have such a tough time on this board - - - the Mooney faithful seem to have elevated their love of CM ahead of their love for the school itself or the many players who represent us!

As for my predictions of "realistic" (that's what the thread said) post season expectations - - - I'd put them at slight (NIT) to near zero (NCAA). Again, none of the core (players and coaches) of this group is a proven college winner (a fact I do not blame on players- - (see numerous fire Mooney threads for who I do blame)) and this core in fact has lost 20+ games two years running; people returning from injury often do not return to their former glory (some ever and some at least not in year one) and our injured star is also not a proven collegiate winner even if he does end up being 100%; our freshman have yet to play a minute and are relatively unheralded; our transfer has yet to play a minute for us and his prior NCAA experience was at a level (or two) below us. Our coach has shown nothing with this group (or any group for a bunch of years for that matter) that would indicate he can raise their level. And as for NCAA's - - I think it takes at least 23 wins and probably 24 and possibly even 25 to get us an at-large (look at the past few years and construct a profile for us that you think gets us in with only 21 or 22 wins absent several teams on our schedule significantly outperforming their own expectations). I see very little chance we go from 13 to 24 wins (with an upgraded schedule) in one year. So to me NCAA's is a dream. I do expect us to be better and thus NIT is a slim hope.
I agree with this, but I don't think you read the thread very closely. Literally nobody - not even the Mooney defenders - said their realistic expectations were an NCAA bid - unless we go on a 4-day run in Brooklyn. Which, given Mooney's historical performance in the A10 tourney, is also unlikely.
 
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Someone said that if we win they are concerned that Mooney will get an extension.
I feel pretty strongly that Hardt won’t give any type of lengthy extension. Maybe a year or two.
He’s the one that has to look at the budget and see what would happen if he had to buy
out a coaches contract. He’s sees how stuck he is right now, and despite the negative crap
on this site, he’s an experienced and knowledgeable AD.
 
Just thinking of Mooney history. Basically a 12 win season leads to about 18-19 win season. To reach the NCAA tournament we need 20 something wins and make it to the A-10 championship. The issue is the A-10 is very strong this year. Dayton, VCU, Davidson and Rhode Island are all very superior this year. More than likely, we will finish 3rd-6th range in the A-10 this year. We can't possibly lose to a mediocre team this year. However, no game seems like a guarantee with Mooney. My prediction last year was 18 wins before the Sherod injury. This year it's 19 wins consider the non-conference is stronger. And A-10 is stronger this year. Both Davidson and VCU will be ranked in the top 25 this year.
 
My big issue is he same as others. Yes - we should be much improved.
BUT - so will the rest of the A10. AND. We only won 13 games last year. With our current schedule - we probably need to win close to 22 games to have an at-large chance. That is a HUGE jump for any team in any league. And as mentioned before - rarely been done by Mooney before. His biggest jump in the past has been +8 wins - once at Beaver college and once at UR. It’s possible for sure. But I fear unlikely.
 
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We couldn't move up when the A10 was down, we're not going to when the A10 is up.

Mooney recruits 3 or 4 above average players, who get stats blown up because he rides them into the ground. these players are just average, its the usage that pads the stats.

I see no hope of anything as long as the current coaching staff is here.
 
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I agree with that. Trust me - I think Golden is a good player. But think he gets over hyped by our fan base because he has the most points ever by end of sophomore year. Inflated stats for two bad teams in my eyes.
 
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Agree with a lot of this. We played an intentionally very weak OOC schedule last year and then the A-10 had won of its weakest performances in recent memory and we finished 11th and won 12 games all year. This year, we upgraded our OOC schedule and our playing in a much stronger A-10 where nearly every team has gotten better. So, how are we going to be 10-11 wins greater which is what we would need to be in NCAA consideration. We will be better as well, but not enough for anything near an NCAA year, 17-19 wins seems like our likely landing place which makes us a fringy NIT team.

I don't see anyone predicting anything better than them, even the ardent Mooney defenders are hoping we get an NIT bid, so they some justification to save his job.
 
nothing better than blanket statements about the season when its August 1. Who had Auburn going to Final 4 last August? no, I'm not saying we're going to final 4, just trying to make a point.
 
I agree with that. Trust me - I think Golden is a good player. But think he gets over hyped by our fan base because he has the most points ever by end of sophomore year. Inflated stats for two bad teams in my eyes.

If you're the best option on a bad team you get so many more chances to score, as opposed to a good balanced team with multiple threats.
 
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the eyeball test tells me Grant and Jacob are really freaking good offensive basketball players.
In another aspect of the game, being on a bad team may not give you more chances at steals, but being on a good one might...
 
I agree with that. Trust me - I think Golden is a good player. But think he gets over hyped by our fan base because he has the most points ever by end of sophomore year. Inflated stats for two bad teams in my eyes.
We couldn't move up when the A10 was down, we're not going to when the A10 is up.

Mooney recruits 3 or 4 above average players, who get stats blown up because he rides them into the ground. these players are just average, its the usage that pads the stats.

I see no hope of anything as long as the current coaching staff is here.

Are you suggesting all the A10 coaches are wrong in their voting Gilyard 1st team A10 defense and 2nd team all A10 and that Golden should not have been selected as 3rd team all A10? Well if that is the case you are going to be very disappoint when preseason All A10 teams our announced.
 
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My eyeball test tells me GG should do more sit ups or go to a low carb diet.
Then he might have the cardio to expend some effort on defense and rebounding.
come on, man. is Grant going to be able to run all day like a 170 lb guard? no. he's a big strong guy carrying 260. he gives great effort for 31 mpg.
 
Welp, this is going to be a highly electric OOC, the board will be on fire.

When we come out of the Legends Classic with the championship and a 12.5 avg margin of victory I am going to be back on board with truther nation full bore - whether they want me or not. I for one, cannot wait.
 
Welp, this is going to be a highly electric OOC, the board will be on fire.

When we come out of the Legends Classic with the championship and a 12.5 avg margin of victory I am going to be back on board with truther nation full bore - whether they want me or not. I for one, cannot wait.
I feel that if we start 4-1(with a P5 win in Legends) or 1-4(with a home loss in Legends), one side or the other will be all over it...
 
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My eyeball test tells me GG should do more sit ups or go to a low carb diet.
Then he might have the cardio to expend some effort on defense and rebounding.
Doing more sit-ups won’t improve his cardiovascular fitness. And cutting carbs would just sap his energy, giving him less energy to expend on defense.

In all seriousness, Grant is listed at a lighter weight than last year, and I think he’s probably at a good weight now.
 
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Someone said that if we win they are concerned that Mooney will get an extension.
I feel pretty strongly that Hardt won’t give any type of lengthy extension. Maybe a year or two.
He’s the one that has to look at the budget and see what would happen if he had to buy
out a coaches contract. He’s sees how stuck he is right now, and despite the negative crap
on this site, he’s an experienced and knowledgeable AD.

A year or two is too many.
 
NCAA or bust

^^This is accurate but put me down for the NCAA as genuine. Also Philly I think at least half of the outsized expectations & rose colored glasses came from Ulla over the years. Maybe there was more of it, don't think too much last couple years.

I'll fly solo on this. But believe me I certainly get why others are not there. Think this is best team we've had in quite a while. One main weakness which is why I really wanted Mooney to fill that last ship with a grad transfer. Could bite us. Also why I wanted tougher schedule.

But mainly it has sucked going into a year with low expectations and feeling there is no real shot at an at large. That's no fun. In last 8 years I'd say I felt that once, maybe borderline another year at best. So heading into year 9 I'm excited that I think we have a team that can do it, been way too few and far in between.

Also Mooney feels NCAAA is reasonable. That's telling for a number of reasons. And program just doubled down on #bestclassever. There is no chance of bestclassever unless NCAA this year. So also excited that if we don't reach NCAA you can't bring a 0 for last 9 coach back after those gauntlets were put down...unless you have a bumbling goof of an AD.

So put me down for NCAA, and also put me down for zero circumstances in which Mooney should return if we don't get there. First team out? Sorry goodbye.

Go Spiders, get it done.
 
The best class EVER would at least make the NCAA tournament by Junior year right? Oh wait. We still haven't gotten old enough. Still young. Wait till next year and the following year. We competed so hard but fell a few points short. You either make it or you don't. Stop making excuses or saying we competed....
 
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I refuse to believe the propaganda coming out of the Robins Center. If we had a new coach with new ideas, I would buy into it more. But it's the same old coach, same old hot garbage, and most likely the same old results. These guys have won 25 games in 2 years, and lost over 40! How all of a sudden they're going to turn the corner and get an at-large bid?

I'm so glad I told the athletic department to not renew my season tickets. Not until Mooney is gone.
 
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wr70, that is the frustrating part, many of us on this board could see Mooney had leveled off BEFORE the last two seasons. Hardt came in and did nothing. Now we will be better than the last two awful years and the AD will act like all is well. We are caught in a downward spiral for mens hoops, and don't seem to have the leadership to right the ship. It will be interesting to see if mens or womens team has more improvement.
 
I for one would love to see this team get a bid and do some damage. It's all up to the unproven bench because there are starters that should be able to hang with anyone in the A10. Having said that my expectations are not higher than mid league finish.
 
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