Quality and Depth of players

[SpiderTrap]

There is a ton of pressure riding on Francis for Mooney’s future at UR.
Scenario 1 - Francis is as good as advertised. Possible all A-10 player. Then we have a good shot at an NCAA bid. He provides more depth and another scorer - which we need.

Scenario 2 - he is a bust and we have a similar team to last year just one year older. But as outlined before - Sonos the rest of the A10 as many teams were young.

But I would also add Sherod into this pressure as well. He will be a key piece. Imagine if we have 4 shooters in gilyard, Francis, Sherod, and Golden. Then you got Cayo slashing, Wojcik provides a spark off the bench, and Sal provides some muscle and rest for golden. That is a pretty good core right there that I feel good about in A10 play. But a lot rests on Sherod and Francis.

 

[GKiller]

Franchise

Stevie Franchise! Hey this time Hardt got Blake's name right on the radio. Last time it was Steve Francis. Baby Jabba steps.

 

[UR80sfan]

Sometimes I think we forget how good some of our players are. Here are some very impressive stats on Golden. I saw a noticeable improvement in his defense near the end of the season, which I think was due to being more aggressive as the coach increased his confidence in Grace as a back up. Grant deserves to be 1st team A10 next year.

• Selected Third Team All-Conference by the Atlantic 10 for a second straight season. Became first player in Spiders history to earn All-Conference honors following freshman and sophomore seasons
• Named First Team All-Conference by Hoops HD
• Finished season with 1,083 career points, the most ever by a Spider by the end of his sophomore season.
• Scored a team-high 17.2 points per game, third most in the A-10, and registered 7.1 rebounds per game, eighth most in the A-10
• Ranked fifth in A-10 in field goal percentage (50.3)
• Led A-10 with 221 field goals ... also finished in top 15 in conference in assists per game (3.5, 13th) and blocks per game (1.06, 11th)
• One of six underclassmen (freshmen or sophomores) in D-I to average 17 points and seven rebounds per game
• Joined T.J. Cline in 2016-17 as the only Spiders to record 500 points, 200 rebounds, and 100 assists in a season
• 117 assists were second most in D-I by player 6'10" or taller (Ethan Happ - 153)

 

[spider23]

Question, who is our back up PG this year? I am thinking Francis, but guessing someone will say Gus or Woj? We know Mooney is going to try to play Gilyard 38.5 minutes/game. If he gets injured or foul trouble, who is running the offense?

 

[spiderman]

when Jacob comes out for his couple minutes and we have Blake on the floor with say Goose ... doesn't matter which one we call the point.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

when Jacob comes out for his couple minutes and we have Blake on the floor with say Goose ... doesn't matter which one we call the point.

I agree with this--and I think this scenario will make Mooney comfortable enough to allow for 5 minutes a game of rest.

 

[MrTbone]

when Jacob comes out for his couple minutes and we have Blake on the floor with say Goose ... doesn't matter which one we call the point.

It sort of matters if one is way more/less capable at bringing the ball upcourt than the other.

I know we fear labels here, but there's some merit to the question, simply because we don't have an obvious backup PG.

 

[spiderman]

It sort of matters if one is way more/less capable at bringing the ball upcourt than the other.

I know we fear labels here, but there's some merit to the question, simply because we don't have an obvious backup PG.

Jacob doesn't always bring the ball up anyway. he'll flip it over to Woj or Goose and trot down court. does that make him an off-guard on those possessions?
those two and Francis are all plenty capable.

 

[MrTbone]

Jacob doesn't always bring the ball up anyway. he'll flip it over to Woj or Goose and trot down court. does that make him an off-guard on those possessions?
those two and Francis are all plenty capable.

Of course he doesn't always bring the ball up, but he probably does on 90% of possessions. I don't know about Francis yet, but neither Andre or Jake have the same ballhandling capability that Jacob does. Maybe it doesn't matter for the 5 mpg he's out. I think the question being asked was more about what happens if he has an extended absence.

 

[spider23]

Of course he doesn't always bring the ball up, but he probably does on 90% of possessions. I don't know about Francis yet, but neither Andre or Jake have the same ballhandling capability that Jacob does. Maybe it doesn't matter for the 5 mpg he's out. I think the question being asked was more about what happens if he has an extended absence.

Right Tbone, my question is if he is out for a game or two, or foul trouble for a half. If you recall, Mooney was trying to go with the 6'5-6'6 guards the first couple years and not have a true "1". He quickly changed direction and snagged KA. The game on the offensive side is so much easier if you are not struggling to get the ball up the court. Hard to run offense. I agree that Woj and Andre are not natural pg's and do struggle. My hope is that Francis can handle the role.

 

[97spiderfan]

Jacob doesn't always bring the ball up anyway. he'll flip it over to Woj or Goose and trot down court. does that make him an off-guard on those possessions?
those two and Francis are all plenty capable.

I agree. I'm not worried about our back-up PG. I see three other capable ball handlers on the team beside Gilly. None of them might be the press breaker like Gilly but most teams only press at certain situations.

 

[UR80sfan]

Of course he doesn't always bring the ball up, but he probably does on 90% of possessions. I don't know about Francis yet, but neither Andre or Jake have the same ballhandling capability that Jacob does. Maybe it doesn't matter for the 5 mpg he's out. I think the question being asked was more about what happens if he has an extended absence.

Andre seemed to do a pretty good job in the Gtown game. He had double digit assists.

 

[VT4700]

Of course he doesn't always bring the ball up, but he probably does on 90% of possessions. I don't know about Francis yet, but neither Andre or Jake have the same ballhandling capability that Jacob does. Maybe it doesn't matter for the 5 mpg he's out. I think the question being asked was more about what happens if he has an extended absence.

Correct. It should not matter for the few minutes he might be out. Blake, Andre, and Jake should all be fine for a few minutes. Most guys these days can handle the ball well enough to do that. Now, if Jacob has an extended absence, of course that would hurt us. Most teams, especially mid majors, are lucky to have one true PG, so it is hard to expect us to have 2. We might have enough talent this year to manage for a few games without Jacob, and maybe still have a chance to win, but it would clearly affect us, especially since he is not only our PG, but one of best players.

It is not as easy as saying we should have a good backup true PG because not many true PGs are in a rush to come here and back up Jacob for 2 seasons. If we don't get one next year, we should be in good shape to grab a good one 2 years from now, since plenty of playing time will be available then. Basketball injuries do happen, but they are rare. Most teams out there cannot afford a lengthy injury to anyone, especially a big or a PG.

 

[SpiderDaMan]

Tons of quality. No depth. Thus many losses in the last 8 minutes...starters are good enough to win, but they can't be playing more than 30 minutes or the opponents wear them out. Cycle, repeat.

 

[MrTbone]

Correct. It should not matter for the few minutes he might be out. Blake, Andre, and Jake should all be fine for a few minutes. Most guys these days can handle the ball well enough to do that. Now, if Jacob has an extended absence, of course that would hurt us. Most teams, especially mid majors, are lucky to have one true PG, so it is hard to expect us to have 2. We might have enough talent this year to manage for a few games without Jacob, and maybe still have a chance to win, but it would clearly affect us, especially since he is not only our PG, but one of best players.

It is not as easy as saying we should have a good backup true PG because not many true PGs are in a rush to come here and back up Jacob for 2 seasons. If we don't get one next year, we should be in good shape to grab a good one 2 years from now, since plenty of playing time will be available then. Basketball injuries do happen, but they are rare. Most teams out there cannot afford a lengthy injury to anyone, especially a big or a PG.

I’m not trying to turn this into a recruiting failure thread, I know everyone gets tired of the six degrees of Kevin Bacon. I don’t think it’s that hard to recruit a backup PG. we’ve always had a backup PG here. In fact, we’ve often ended up playing with two guys who probably both projected as PGs and one ended up playing SG. And injuries do happen, JG played through injury for much of last year, and Nick was down most of thyear, so it is a risk.

Just my opinion but I’d like to have another true PG on the roster. I suspect there are plenty out there, in particular since we don’t care much about size at that spot. That said, I agree we aren’t in a dreadful spot with who we have by any means. Perhaps that’s what they have in mind for Blake.

 

[VT4700]

Tons of quality. No depth. Thus many losses in the last 8 minutes...starters are good enough to win, but they can't be playing more than 30 minutes or the opponents wear them out. Cycle, repeat.

If more than 30 minutes wears you out, you are playing the wrong sport. With halftime and media timeouts, there is no reason why anyone cannot play 34-36 minutes a game.

 

[urfan1]

If more than 30 minutes wears you out, you are playing the wrong sport. With halftime and media timeouts, there is no reason why anyone cannot play 34-36 minutes a game.

play yes, compete at your highest level, much more difficult

 

[gospidersgo]

play yes, compete at your highest level, much more difficult

Exactly. When there's one minute left in the game and you've played 38 minutes and the guy you're guarding has played 30, that can be a difference maker.

 

[UR80sfan]

Tons of quality. No depth. Thus many losses in the last 8 minutes...starters are good enough to win, but they can't be playing more than 30 minutes or the opponents wear them out. Cycle, repeat.

It is interesting you think we do not have depth. I think we have one of the deepest teams we have ever had that will continue to be good after the rising Junior class graduates. Assuming everyone stays together, we will have an experienced team of Burton, Sal, Wojcik, Andre, Crabtree and Grace, including others we add over the next 2 years. Our issue is not depth, it is that there are only 40 minutes in a game and some good players are not going to see a lot of playing time.

One other thing is how many minutes a player can play and still be effective. UVA had Hunter at 32.5 minutes, Guy at 35.4 and Jerome at 33.9. We only had one guy over 32 minutes a game and that was Gilyard at 37.5. Those 3 from UVA seemed to play pretty well with high minutes.

 

[urmite]

Interesting that last year only 35 teams had 5 starters average 25 minutes or less
Only 28 that had 5 starters average 31 minutes or more.
185 under 28 minutes/168 over.

 

[urmite]

It is interesting you think we do not have depth. I think we have one of the deepest teams we have ever had that will continue to be good after the rising Junior class graduates. Assuming everyone stays together, we will have an experienced team of Burton, Sal, Wojcik, Andre, Crabtree and Grace, including others we add over the next 2 years. Our issue is not depth, it is that there are only 40 minutes in a game and some good players are not going to see a lot of playing time.

One other thing is how many minutes a player can play and still be effective. UVA had Hunter at 32.5 minutes, Guy at 35.4 and Jerome at 33.9. We only had one guy over 32 minutes a game and that was Gilyard at 37.5. Those 3 from UVA seemed to play pretty well with high minutes.

You do realize he is a VCU fan who assumes all of our freshmen from last year will play the same this year?

Could be, but we will see...

 

[VT4700]

play yes, compete at your highest level, much more difficult

UVA says hi.

 

[VT4700]

It is interesting you think we do not have depth. I think we have one of the deepest teams we have ever had that will continue to be good after the rising Junior class graduates. Assuming everyone stays together, we will have an experienced team of Burton, Sal, Wojcik, Andre, Crabtree and Grace, including others we add over the next 2 years. Our issue is not depth, it is that there are only 40 minutes in a game and some good players are not going to see a lot of playing time.

One other thing is how many minutes a player can play and still be effective. UVA had Hunter at 32.5 minutes, Guy at 35.4 and Jerome at 33.9. We only had one guy over 32 minutes a game and that was Gilyard at 37.5. Those 3 from UVA seemed to play pretty well with high minutes.

And they also busted their butts on defense every single possession. If over 30 minutes a game tires you out, you need to find another sport.

 

[VT4700]

play yes, compete at your highest level, much more difficult

Actually, KA and Harp say Hi since they played 40 and 38 minutes against Vandy. And, how about Rice (40), Kratzer (36) and Kenny Atkinson (33) against Indiana? Come on, guys. This is crazy. Give your best players a lot of minutes. If you rest them just to keep them at 30 minutes, you are not giving your team the best chance to win.

 

[urfan1]

UVA says hi.

hi right back, highest was Guy with 35.4 mins per game

 

[urfan1]

And they also busted their butts on defense every single possession. If over 30 minutes a game tires you out, you need to find another sport.

where did I say 30 minutes? Frankly I think 30 to 35 is about right for your top players -- 38 too many

 

[VT4700]

where did I say 30 minutes? Frankly I think 30 to 35 is about right for your top players -- 38 too many

I don't know, but you seem to be all over the place. I posted 30 is too low to tire someone, and there is no reason to not play 34-36. You replied to that by saying "play yes, compete at your highest level, much more difficult". I said UVA says hi, and you reply by saying "hi right back, highest was Guy with 35.4 mins per game". Which was right in my 34-36 range that you apparently disagreed with enough to copy, and reply with your first comment. So, sorry if I am confused about why you countered my original post. And, I'm glad you weren't coaching KA and Harp against Vandy.

 

[GKiller]

I agree that if elite players are playing 34-36 that is no big deal. U want your elite players eating the minutes. A big man like Grant gets less than that, but fine for guards and wings. The comment from SpiderDaMan made no sense. Can't be playing more than 30 mins or get worn out? He says it because he's a VCU fan and that strategy works for them. They do play and recruit well that way but they're more of an anomaly. Virtually all good teams will have 3 over 30. We need better bench production no doubt, I think we can get that this year. Really the only one we need to cut a little is Gilyard to keep him fresher because he also has the ball in hands so much and working harder. Hopefully we can, we should with better depth this year. But we'll still have 3 + over 30. Gilyard likely only one who ends up in the 34-36 range imo but if we have another so be it. A couple other guys will no doubt be in the low 30s and that seems like the norm.

 

[urfan1]

I think GK is pretty much where I would be. But remember we are talking averages, that means some games Gilly will play 38 or 39, and others he will play 30 or less. The season is long, it wears on the body to compete at a high level at all times, you have to use your bench wisely so the stars will have strong legs at the end of games and the end of the season when you make history.

 

[VT4700]

I think GK is pretty much where I would be. But remember we are talking averages, that means some games Gilly will play 38 or 39, and others he will play 30 or less. The season is long, it wears on the body to compete at a high level at all times, you have to use your bench wisely so the stars will have strong legs at the end of games and the end of the season when you make history.

I hope Jacob doesn't play 30 or less any games. He only did that once his freshman year, and twice last year. He is way too valuable and we need him on the floor. I don't think for 40 minutes, but 36 with a 2 minute break for him a half added to a media timeout seems like all he would need.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

We should be able to give our stars a blow in our Quad 4 games.

Should.

 

[97spiderfan]

Jacob played too many minutes last year. His play was not as good in the closing minutes of games because of it. You have to get him more rests throughout the game than we did last year. I still want him playing 34-36 minutes per game, some games, yes he will play more. But as Chop said, if we have to play him 38 vs a Quad 4 opponent like we did last year, that would be a very bad sign.

 

[spider23]

Exactly, we could not get him off the floor in games against bad opponents, that was a problem. Even when he was gimpy with the groin strain, Mooney kept milking him for all he could get. Needs to change. We should be good enough to give him a blow against bad teams I would hope, so he is able to play 36 minutes against the top and fresh for the stretch run in the A10.

 

[UR80sfan]

Last year Davidson played Grady 37.6 minutes a game and Gudmundsson 36.8. They both seemed to play OK. I think the coach and Gilyard can figure out the right amount of minutes. Speaking of Gilyard, I think both he and Grant will be selected 1st team A10 before they graduate. Here is what Gilyard has done so far:

First Spider to make All-Defense team since Darrius Garrett in 2012 and second Spiders sophomore to ever make First Team or Second Team All-Atlantic 10 (Kevin Anderson - 2009)

• Owns Richmond records for assists (290), steals (177), and three-pointers (132) by a player in his first two seasons ... 868 points are fifth-most ever by Spider in his first two seasons

• Scored 17.9 points per game during conference play, best in the A-10 ... Over full season, averaged 16.2 points per game, fifth best in the conference

• Led A-10 and ranked seventh in D-I with 2.84 steals per game ... 88 steals were second most in a season in school history, trailing only his 89 in 2017-18

• Ranked fourth in A-10 in assists per game (5.2) and second in A-10 in assist-to-turnover ratio (2.13) ... 160 assists were fifth most in a season in school history

• Made a team-high 74 three-point field goals, third most in the A-10 and tied for 12th most in a season in school history ... Tied school record with eight three-pointers at Dayton on January 6

* Recorded third-highest FG pct (47.2) among D-I players under six feet (among qualifiers)

 

[urmite]

Interesting that last year only 35 teams had 5 starters average 25 minutes or less
Only 28 that had 5 starters average 31 minutes or more.
185 under 28 minutes/168 over.

To continue this...
It seems counter intuitive but VCU was only 1 of 2 teams seeded 11 or better that averaged 70 bench minutes per game last year.
We averaged 50 bench minutes per game, and 12 teams seeded 11 or better averaged less.

 

[97spiderfan]

The key is quality depth for when you rest your starters. I think we have quality back-up at PG and the guard position with Frances, Jake, and Andre. I'm more concerned with our depth of our bigs.

 

[coach fezz]

Last year Davidson played Grady 37.6 minutes a game and Gudmundsson 36.8. They both seemed to play OK. I think the coach and Gilyard can figure out the right amount of minutes. Speaking of Gilyard, I think both he and Grant will be selected 1st team A10 before they graduate. Here is what Gilyard has done so far:

First Spider to make All-Defense team since Darrius Garrett in 2012 and second Spiders sophomore to ever make First Team or Second Team All-Atlantic 10 (Kevin Anderson - 2009)

• Owns Richmond records for assists (290), steals (177), and three-pointers (132) by a player in his first two seasons ... 868 points are fifth-most ever by Spider in his first two seasons

• Scored 17.9 points per game during conference play, best in the A-10 ... Over full season, averaged 16.2 points per game, fifth best in the conference

• Led A-10 and ranked seventh in D-I with 2.84 steals per game ... 88 steals were second most in a season in school history, trailing only his 89 in 2017-18

• Ranked fourth in A-10 in assists per game (5.2) and second in A-10 in assist-to-turnover ratio (2.13) ... 160 assists were fifth most in a season in school history

• Made a team-high 74 three-point field goals, third most in the A-10 and tied for 12th most in a season in school history ... Tied school record with eight three-pointers at Dayton on January 6

* Recorded third-highest FG pct (47.2) among D-I players under six feet (among qualifiers)

I think maybe playing off ball can be good for shooting and
for rest ??

 

[97spiderfan]

I think maybe playing off ball can be good for shooting and
for rest ??

Ya think. Grady was also injured for a significant part of the OOC schedule for Davidson.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

play yes, compete at your highest level, much more difficult

I didn't think anyone could argue against the above statement? Guess I was wrong.

 

[AnnapSpider]

I think GK is pretty much where I would be. But remember we are talking averages, that means some games Gilly will play 38 or 39, and others he will play 30 or less. The season is long, it wears on the body to compete at a high level at all times, you have to use your bench wisely so the stars will have strong legs at the end of games and the end of the season when you make history.

This may have already been said, but the size of the player affects the number of minutes, or should.
The bigs shouldn’t be playing more than 30; less with good back-ups. The first string guards should
expect 30plus.