That'a undoubtedly why his job description very clearly indicates being a liaison to collectives. Does still have to be some separation.
OT: Woj bomb!
- Thread starter Eight Legger
- Start date
We’ll get a GM after Hardt visits with VCU’s GM and is blown away by what he finds out.
that's the blur. if Woj is fundraising for the Collective, then he's woring for the Collective. yet being paid by the school.
I'm sure all is well. 80's has a role somewhere.
Would think that is correct - someone with the school can't be in charge of the collective, but Woj can be a BIG presence with the collective, and likely will be the GM of the collective of as well.
In reality - the collective is simply there to raise as much money as possible, then hand it over to the coach, who can then distribute as needed to the team.
Lol. He's already got solid communication skills with the fanbase down pat and obviously sucking up to the powerbrokers is an area of excellence. He is a shoe in for sure for this role.
Here’s one of the first examples of using Woj’s image/presence in recruiting. Let’s see if it starts to make a difference for the Bonnies.
sketch yes. but a violation of what....ncaa rules? we are paying college players fake NIL money. but it would be just like the ncaa & in their wheelhouse to now go after a guys tweeter at St Bonnie. Like the old days, Kentucky breaking rules just means Morehead St. is about to go on probation.
there r no rules. where we're going we don't need rules. or roads.
there r no rules. where we're going we don't need rules. or roads.
Thinking the same thing Gkiller, the rules are: THERE ARE NO RULES.
GK, I look forward to the nonstop Spider recruiting tweets from your @AdamSilverNBA account.
I feel like u get most of the references. Playing the long game...like my future vcu fan reveal vt4700 is certain about lol.
Also, Doc Brown guaranteed & noted Spiders fan.
The original intent was for student athletes to earn name image & likeness money on their own. Most do not. And the schools and the schools collectives r doing all the work. Way better than the old no show jobs. It's now pay to attend a school and play basketball. Under the guise of NIL. Fake NIL.
The collectives do have to require something - usually its appearances at events, or some charity or volunteer work - so there has to be something tied to it, not simply pay for play. But I do agree - its pretty fake. Its no different than a large donor who owns a company or has ties doing the same thing.
UR Example - If Claiborne Robins still had Robitussin and was running that business, he could have paid a player any amount he wanted to, in exchange for the use of the athlete in some promotional or advertisements. Or what many companies do now with these athletes - just have them make a post or two on their social media endorsing the product/company.
UR Example - If Claiborne Robins still had Robitussin and was running that business, he could have paid a player any amount he wanted to, in exchange for the use of the athlete in some promotional or advertisements. Or what many companies do now with these athletes - just have them make a post or two on their social media endorsing the product/company.
Yeah, send out this prewritten tweet and here's a check for $25k. Talk to you again next month and we'll do it again. Pleasure doing business with you. Apologies for taking up 5 seconds of your time.
I need u to sell a “hot dog” at the Richmond SPCA event outside Krogers. It costs 10k. Add mustard for 2k. Don’t worry if overpriced someone will buy it. 100% commission. And if u don’t show up no prob u still get the commission it’s your account.
This reminds me of Cameo in a sense. Still pissed I didn’t come up w that idea. But my buddy got 1 for my sons team b4 a rivalry high school game. It was Ogre from Revenge of the Nerds. It was hilarious & all about beating those NERDS. Best cameo I’ve seen. Unlike NIL worth every penny.
there may be fake rules for NIL, like making the athlete do something for the compensation, or that you can't use NIL to recruit ...
but the point is scholarshipped athletes weren't allowed to make money before. now they are. and it's not just athletes. a piccolo players can be paid too. anyone where there's demand. there was never a good reason for it to be illegal to pay athletes or anyone else that you want services from.
there's a ton of demand for good college athletes. people are clearly willing to pay them. nobody's forcing anyone to.
but the point is scholarshipped athletes weren't allowed to make money before. now they are. and it's not just athletes. a piccolo players can be paid too. anyone where there's demand. there was never a good reason for it to be illegal to pay athletes or anyone else that you want services from.
there's a ton of demand for good college athletes. people are clearly willing to pay them. nobody's forcing anyone to.
You can still get one from Richmond Spider Tyler Burton starting at $20.
I agree its capitalism. If it did not interfere with training or studies, what's the issue?
Those r the ones who have a market. The LSU gymnast is not common. If u have a company who wants to pay to advertise their product or get a cut of jersey sales that's great. But most aren't market driven, they are simply getting paid out a pool of money. all under the guise of NIL. Why are we calling it NIL?? when that applies to a very small %. & I do believe fans esp of college athletics care way more about the name on the front then the name on the back imo. More the platform than the player. None of it exists without the universities.
they'll never do this I realize...and it would hurt Richmond more than other schools due to cost so I don't want it....but there's actually an argument to get rid of athletic scholarships. Now professional. school is the professional membership. pay to get into the membershp = tuition & room/board if needed. Take a scholarship, even COA, but u opt out of Collective, and u can earn $ on your own, but u handle it all yourself. Or pay to enter the membership (can get federal aid & loans) & now we'll negotiate a portion from the collective pot.
A lot of schools r to blame...they couldn't hold the line on ridiculous coaching contracts. Tho I've never subscribed to thought the players were getting screwed in past. Yes, some rules were archaic. Ability to make some $, adding COA which is a real thing, others. But a scholarship was a real payment imo, not to be taken lightly. Also provided the best interview platform for pro athletics, and if that didn't work out, any number of chosen fields.
what r they doing to do now....take out insurance on "NIL" contracts in case someone gets hurt, like the Pros often do.
hard to regulate...they can't even regulate eligibility for players or scheduling (MTE) anymore...good luck with this. But don't call it NIL, universally it's not. FBS football assistant coaches first recruit the agency not the kid. I know some agents in the game, a couple ADs, a guy who does a lot of work for a B12 school collective. & those collectives will be cutthroat too I realize. But they are all consistent with what this really is. Get paid to attend and play.
& UR has to play the game as is, no excuses, we have the ability. Nothing to do with that. Just my 2 cents rant.
GK, you're correct that the name "NIL" is misleading. while yes, they can make money on name, image and likeness ... it's way more than that. that's reality.
you say "a scholarship was a real payment imo, not to be taken lightly". absolutely. it's worth at least $80k per year at Richmond. it's worth the same for a revenue generating basketball player as a non-revenue generation cross country runner. but the market is determining that certain athletes are worth more. way more.
your proposal to get rid of athletic scholarships disregards the whole reason athletic scholarships were created in the 1st place. schools want these athletes! I think it started with some school wanting their crew team to beat their rival!
I don't feel any regulation is needed. each school and donor base can determine for itself what they're willing to spend for athletes. the schools with the most will get the best, and will win. yes, that's an advantage. just like pre-NIL the schools in the high major conferences with the best athletic reputations got the best athletes and won ... without paying them. there's always been advantages.
guess I'm pro-labor in this case. let the market detemine their worth. let the kids earn whatever the market is willing to pay.
you say "a scholarship was a real payment imo, not to be taken lightly". absolutely. it's worth at least $80k per year at Richmond. it's worth the same for a revenue generating basketball player as a non-revenue generation cross country runner. but the market is determining that certain athletes are worth more. way more.
your proposal to get rid of athletic scholarships disregards the whole reason athletic scholarships were created in the 1st place. schools want these athletes! I think it started with some school wanting their crew team to beat their rival!
I don't feel any regulation is needed. each school and donor base can determine for itself what they're willing to spend for athletes. the schools with the most will get the best, and will win. yes, that's an advantage. just like pre-NIL the schools in the high major conferences with the best athletic reputations got the best athletes and won ... without paying them. there's always been advantages.
guess I'm pro-labor in this case. let the market detemine their worth. let the kids earn whatever the market is willing to pay.
I agree. And the NCAA has always made rules saying - well, if this is not available to the general student, then it shouldn't be available to a student-athlete. But in this case, the tables were reversed. There was nothing stopping a regular student from starting their own business, working on the side, making money, etc - but athletes were not allowed to do so, and probably had the best marketability to do so.
I have no problem with college athletes getting paid, but just think under this type of system and fact that college sports are so broad, your going to have a clear line in the sand between the haves and have nots, and it might clearly result in some sort of break-off from the NCAA.
Its also hard to continue on the path of not paying the athletes when the NCAA calls itself nonprofit, but they get 900 million dollars a year just for March Madness. They also get just over 100 million from ESPN annually to broadcast championships across 40 sports. And the president of the NCAA gets about 3 million annually in salary. You can't keep increasing the money on one end, and on the other - you continue with - you get free education, nothing more. Something had to give.
Not a proposal sman more of a fleeting thought.
Of course schools want them but I think we disagree on what the market is. I don’t think a university or a closely aligned collective of boosters directed by a school is a real market, or it shouldn’t be. While higher Ed is big business I don’t think they should be in this particular business. Let them eat from the real market. Go do as many cameos as they like. The “market” is what NIL was intended to be. U r redefining NIL. That’s really the point it was not supposed to be pay to play professional sports. It is.
Just curious r u in favor of salary caps and drafts in pro sports? Those r decidedly not pro-labor.
Of course schools want them but I think we disagree on what the market is. I don’t think a university or a closely aligned collective of boosters directed by a school is a real market, or it shouldn’t be. While higher Ed is big business I don’t think they should be in this particular business. Let them eat from the real market. Go do as many cameos as they like. The “market” is what NIL was intended to be. U r redefining NIL. That’s really the point it was not supposed to be pay to play professional sports. It is.
Just curious r u in favor of salary caps and drafts in pro sports? Those r decidedly not pro-labor.
salary caps are based on revenue sharing between owners and players. those athletes are getting a cut. college athletes certainly weren't. and I like the soft cap where teams can go over and pay a tax, which gets shared.
drafts are tough. yes, it's needed for the good of each sport. need balance. but while it's easier, I don't agree that rookoie contracts should lock a guy up as long as they do.
you need competitive balance because these league are small and there needs to be a believe that every team has a chance.
I don't think there's ever been that falacy in a 360 something school NCAA D1 league. teams have always had advantages. they just got to rake in the profits without sharing.
Yep there r reasons for it. Plenty of teams bring in more revenue but they can’t spend it. Regardless thats not free market nor pro labor. It’s closer to collusion. I don’t care but u r the one claiming to be pro labor.
Ok let’s have the top 100 colleges (Kenpom banner!) draft players out of high school.
U want the pro model in college athletics many don’t. I love pro sports too but we have that already. These r colleges & universities after all. Earn off NIL as it was presented. It’s so far away from that.
I hadn’t even thought about it. Why are million dollar qb’s getting any scholarship money. That makes no sense.
Good point. If you are getting a million dollars, you most likely aren't getting to get any needs based scholarship as determined by these schools financial sliding scale. Meanwhile, some kid, whose parents make $100,000 annually are having to pay 40K to go to the school, cause that kid can't throw a ball.
Oh yes ... we're there to educate, lol. College athletics is big business. If their mission statement is honest, it's to make as much money as possible. That's why coaches are paid so much.
Rutgers was paid $58M from the Big10 last year. that doesn't include ticket sales, parking, merchandise and concessions, etc...
Alumni donations increase when sports do well. Win and applications increase, so school ranking increase.
But you feel the student athlete who is resposible for all that income, who grinds and is banged up all year, who stays on campus almost all summer so can't have an internship or any summer job, who gets probably 3 days off at Christmas ... that kid should just be grateful for a scholarhip? While the school, the coach, AD, and conference commmissioner make millions off of them? That's very outdated thinking. Just because that's how it was doesn't mean that's how it should be.
If you're great at your job and generate revenue for what you do, you'll be paid a lot by someone. If you're marginal and easily replaced, you won't.
it is big business but yes, here to educate first. If not get rid of all tax exempt status immediately. these r sports teams as part of universities. need to keep that in perspective. but I acknowledge it's going to the pro sports model & that perspective is getting lost unfortunately. its a huge time commitment but I don't view as job. You do & that's crux of difference.
also u have to look at P&L not just revenue. the student athlete is definitely not responsible for all the income. I guess my kid is entitled to gate revenue from high school sports I never realized that should be a thing. The fans will cheer for anyone. Was it Seinfeld who said we essentially cheer for jerseys? Nobody cares if u r not wearing the jersey.
your outdated thinking paragraph does not describe what I've said because they can earn NIL, they should be able to get a summer job, etc. But paid employees...no. I've criticized the exorbitant contracts of coaches & ADs for a long time, the $ should go into facilities and making college as affordable as possible. If not university athletics at minimum should lose tax exempt status. Could be byproduct of all this.
If u want pro sports model now u can't transfer but we can trade you, and yeah drafts out of high school. That star QB, sorry u can't go to Notre Dame or Tennessee, u r being made to go to Boise State or Maryland. We go there and I guarantee you hear....wait wait wait sorry we're really not employees!
Nothing I can do about it...my feelings r not that deep but went kind of down a rabbit hole when you asked me what "fake" NIL is....it's almost all fake. And tbh I don’t disagree w all u say, u always make good points. I just feel the system is becoming broken for the worse. I’m more interested in our team and season. Whatever the landscape Richmond hoops needs to be in the thick of it.
also u have to look at P&L not just revenue. the student athlete is definitely not responsible for all the income. I guess my kid is entitled to gate revenue from high school sports I never realized that should be a thing. The fans will cheer for anyone. Was it Seinfeld who said we essentially cheer for jerseys? Nobody cares if u r not wearing the jersey.
your outdated thinking paragraph does not describe what I've said because they can earn NIL, they should be able to get a summer job, etc. But paid employees...no. I've criticized the exorbitant contracts of coaches & ADs for a long time, the $ should go into facilities and making college as affordable as possible. If not university athletics at minimum should lose tax exempt status. Could be byproduct of all this.
If u want pro sports model now u can't transfer but we can trade you, and yeah drafts out of high school. That star QB, sorry u can't go to Notre Dame or Tennessee, u r being made to go to Boise State or Maryland. We go there and I guarantee you hear....wait wait wait sorry we're really not employees!
Nothing I can do about it...my feelings r not that deep but went kind of down a rabbit hole when you asked me what "fake" NIL is....it's almost all fake. And tbh I don’t disagree w all u say, u always make good points. I just feel the system is becoming broken for the worse. I’m more interested in our team and season. Whatever the landscape Richmond hoops needs to be in the thick of it.
If the NCAA wasn't the definition of fat cat leadership failing upwards while also failing to understand its own market, there could have been better integration of all this and maybe just a bit more sympathy towards them.
Instead, they decided to wildly exploit former players BY USING THEIR IMAGES AND LIKENESS IN A VIDEO GAME (including position, number, team and personal characteristics like shaved head/lefthanded for O'Bannon) and giving them zero part of the profits. Meantime, they took like a billion dollars less than they could have made for their broadcast rights, when they had 100% of all the leverage. Buffoonery. Those idiots probably made millions leading that organization.
Players are now just taking what's being offered. If someone handed me a winning lottery ticket and just said send out a tweet about this to promote the lottery, and the winnings are all yours, damn right I'd do that.
Instead, they decided to wildly exploit former players BY USING THEIR IMAGES AND LIKENESS IN A VIDEO GAME (including position, number, team and personal characteristics like shaved head/lefthanded for O'Bannon) and giving them zero part of the profits. Meantime, they took like a billion dollars less than they could have made for their broadcast rights, when they had 100% of all the leverage. Buffoonery. Those idiots probably made millions leading that organization.
Players are now just taking what's being offered. If someone handed me a winning lottery ticket and just said send out a tweet about this to promote the lottery, and the winnings are all yours, damn right I'd do that.
As Tony Bennett said during his retirement speech, college basketball is not well and change needs to happen. Such a true statement. Anyone who thinks throwing large sums of cash at 18-20 years in a completely unrestricted format for unspecified work is some great advancement for college students and for college athletics, I have some swamp land to sell you in Florida.
lol, Bennett also said at the same press conference "I think it's right for student-athletes to receive revenue. Please don't mistake me."
don't leave that part out.
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