OOC Grade is in!!! No surprise, it's an F

[SpiderTrap]

Assuming this season is a losing record - a pretty safe assumption - the following will all be true:

4 of the past 8 seasons have finished with a losing record.
1 NCAA tournament appearance in those 8 years.

The infrequent highs don't justify the regular lows. Appearances in the NCAA tournament is the metric to gauge success in college basketball. I hardly agree that UR has a great run of recent success. Richmond has the resources that it should not have to expect at least 1 losing record in exchange for an NIT level season.

(also brilliant job by student17 misidentifying this as only the 2nd year of the portal era and creating a new category that fits his narrative. It's the 3rd. Moon has 2 losing seasons in 3 in the portal era.)

This is good information, and not just a recent snapshot - 8 years is a long time. And you could take it even further and argue - the years prior to this 8 year snapshot - UR didn't encounter these lows. Prior to 2017-2018 - when the team went 12-20, there were only 2 losing seasons - Mooney's first two, which many will argue - not his fault because the cupboard was bare. So if you accept that - then your saying - no losing seasons in Mooney's first 10 seasons (do not include first 2 years). Worse years were a .500 season after making the sweet 16, which was understandable given everything we lost, and then again in 2016 when UR just missed the NCAA and made the NIT, again - incurring heavy losses due to graduation. But unfortunately - the days of keeping kids 4-5 years, and relying on those junior-senior years are over. You get juniors and seniors now, after they have played 2-3 years for other schools. Mooney's success has always been - get a core group that plays together, struggles a bit when young, but then when team is heavy with experience in Juniors and Seniors, and then has a 1-2 young guys to fill in - it works.

And again - what makes it worse, is that teams like us have not experienced this extreme high and low. VCU - last 8 years, no losing record - and they switched coaches. Davidson - 1 losing season, and 1 .500 season in last 8, but are now sitting at 10-3 this season. Dayton Flyers - 1 losing season in last 8, and coaching change. St. Bonaventure - 1 losing season in last 8, and now at 12-1.

So the question is - are we falling behind? Or being left behind in the portal era? Or is this the new reality that UR basketball is willing to accept. Before - we accepted an NCAA run about every 4-5 years, when a young group of recruits would mature and develop into Juniors and seniors. Now that doesn't exist in the portal era - is the expectation the same, with just extreme high and lows?

 

[GKiller]

Yes, crazy. If Mooney was a state school there would be a ton of tax payers pissed off. Instead there are only a few of us disgruntled fans and we are told that he is doing great and we are a bunch of complainers , because what can you expect from lil ol itsy bitsy Spiders. And he gets extended for idiotic reasons.

23 he’s irreplaceable. He went to Princeton. He’s a family man. He doesn’t curse at the players anymore during the game. He graduates players. Always a problem at Richmond previously! We will not mention most now leave Richmond b4 graduating or come to Richmond w their undergrad degree. Once in a blue moon he beats vcu a team in the same city & league. Once in a blue moon goes to ncaa. Amazing. At little ol’ U of R.

We could never find a coach to come here & get paid 2 million with no pressure and accomplish all that.

 

[Eight Legger]

No one gets to be the head coach of anything for 20 years at one place at this level unless he or she is exceptional. Mooney is not.

 

[RichmondNative]

Good post Trap, but I think you have the wrong question.

But unfortunately - the days of keeping kids 4-5 years, and relying on those junior-senior years are over.

This may be a common belief, but I don’t think it is the belief of the UR “powers that be”. They believe the narrative that you describe below:

Mooney's success has always been - get a core group that plays together, struggles a bit when young, but then when team is heavy with experience in Juniors and Seniors, and then has a 1-2 young guys to fill in - it works.

Of course, what Mooney and staff have been doing the last 3 years is not the above and instead have tried a mix and match approach that obviously has not worked (metric being a NCAA birth).

So next year is the return to the old method and see if it still works. I believe the majority of the active posters on the board would say that it won’t work and I agree, but I think it COULD work if Dayton and VCU weren’t part of the A10. Those two teams are ones that can thrive consistently in this new NIL world and they will continue to dominate the A10. Yes there will be other teams that make a run from time to time, but those 2 will always be in the mix. Thus the real question is when will Dayton and VCU leave the A10 or will UR abandon the A10 and move to the Patriot League?

 

[bullfrog91]

Torpedoed? Tell me how. The guys Mooney recruited transferred down. Not all but by far most

Meaning he did a poor job evaluating talent and those guys were not A10 caliber...weren't u saying the opposite? If not, my bad.

 

[8legs1dream]

23 he’s irreplaceable. He went to Princeton. He’s a family man. He doesn’t curse at the players anymore during the game. He graduates players. Always a problem at Richmond previously! We will not mention most now leave Richmond b4 graduating or come to Richmond w their undergrad degree. Once in a blue moon he beats vcu a team in the same city & league. Once in a blue moon goes to ncaa. Amazing. At little ol’ U of R.

We could never find a coach to come here & get paid 2 million with no pressure and accomplish all that.

Poor little ol' Richmond! 😭

 

[SpiderTrap]

Good post Trap, but I think you have the wrong question.

This may be a common belief, but I don’t think it is the belief of the UR “powers that be”. They believe the narrative that you describe below:


Of course, what Mooney and staff have been doing the last 3 years is not the above and instead have tried a mix and match approach that obviously has not worked (metric being a NCAA birth).

So next year is the return to the old method and see if it still works. I believe the majority of the active posters on the board would say that it won’t work and I agree, but I think it COULD work if Dayton and VCU weren’t part of the A10. Those two teams are ones that can thrive consistently in this new NIL world and they will continue to dominate the A10. Yes there will be other teams that make a run from time to time, but those 2 will always be in the mix. Thus the real question is when will Dayton and VCU leave the A10 or will UR abandon the A10 and move to the Patriot League?

Agreed - I think there will be leagues out there, who will not want to partake in the money driven world of paying college athletes, or will at least want to put a limit (cap) in order to maintain some sort of order and competitive balance - even in their own league. Sort of how the Ivy League does today - no athletic scholarships and no redshirts - that is a conscience decision by them and all members have agreed and abide by those rules. Its not that they can't compete and play against other schools - but they at least know in their own league, they all follow the same set of rules. I could see a conference or two following this guide when it comes to NIL and paying athletes. Either by eliminating them all together for their league members, or by simply limiting them by dollar amounts. Therefore schools not only know what they are competing against in their own league, but also can be fiscally responsible - especially as we move towards the schools paying the athletes directly. That is why I could see the Patriot league, which is like a 2nd cousin to the Ivy - being a landing spot for UR in the future.

 

[GKiller]

Poor little ol' Richmond! 😭

Too hard for cake eaters on a leafy campus. queally is right. & when he got all that $ from his dad that made things harder not easier too.

 

[RichmondNative]

Agreed - I think there will be leagues out there, who will not want to partake in the money driven world of paying college athletes, or will at least want to put a limit (cap) in order to maintain some sort of order and competitive balance - even in their own league. Sort of how the Ivy League does today - no athletic scholarships and no redshirts - that is a conscience decision by them and all members have agreed and abide by those rules. It’s not that they can't compete and play against other schools - but they at least know in their own league, they all follow the same set of rules. I could see a conference or two following this guide when it comes to NIL and paying athletes. Either by eliminating them all together for their league members, or by simply limiting them by dollar amounts. Therefore schools not only know what they are competing against in their own league, but also can be fiscally responsible - especially as we move towards the schools paying the athletes directly. That is why I could see the Patriot league, which is like a 2nd cousin to the Ivy - being a landing spot for UR in the future.

We are on the same page. I do think that the A10 is more likely to be a cap type league though and so UR could stay, but a couple of schools would leave.

 

[SpiderTrap]

We are on the same page. I do think that the A10 is more likely to be a cap type league though and so UR could stay, but a couple of schools would leave.

Would depend on the CAP - I don't think UR wants to put anymore money into Athletics that is required to "compete".

 

[GKiller]

No one gets to be the head coach of anything for 20 years at one place at this level unless he or she is exceptional. Mooney is not.

That’s why he’s also the worst rivalry coach of ALL TIME. We should really get some publicity out of that. When u r the best at being the worst. Probably Barstool idk.

 

[SpiderAlways]

Meaning he did a poor job evaluating talent and those guys were not A10 caliber...weren't u saying the opposite? If not, my bad.

What I meant was most of the guys Mooney recruited were not very good and transferred to lower level teams. Sadly, we are those lower level teams now

 

[SpiderGuy]

What I meant was most of the guys Mooney recruited were not very good and transferred to lower level teams. Sadly, we are those lower level teams now

Maybe we can get those players back since we seem to be a lower level team now.

 

[Spiderwiz]

Maybe we can get those players back since we seem to be a lower level team now.

As a bonus, they do know the system already.

 

[wr70beh]

You know we always call for a La Salle or a Fordham to get kicked out of the league for being bad. The way we’re headed we’ll be at their level.

 

[KE Spider]

Don't post here often anymore. Few years back, threw hands up in disgust after two consecutive 20 loss seasons from a long tenured coach hired to build a consistent program. Gave up season tix held for a couple of decades. Return for games only a few times per season since.

There is and has long been a disconnect between "being successful at the highest level in our school's signature sport" and what our school is willing to do to achieve it. Applaud some recent season successes, but anyone believing Mooney is capable of leading us to a consistently successful program is delusional. The record is the record. It ain't happened and it ain't going to happen even with PQ funding facilities and throwing NIL money at the problem. Coach, nice guy, has serious deficiencies that cannot be papered over by money/facilities.

Am exactly what the athletic program doesn't want. A fan so disgruntled that can no longer support the MBB program financially or in attendance ($5 discount tickets take my place though so UR still gets credit for a fanny). My support goes to other Spider teams.

Frustrated and disgusted for years.

 

[whampas]

Don't post here often anymore. Few years back, threw hands up in disgust after two consecutive 20 loss seasons from a long tenured coach hired to build a consistent program. Gave up season tix held for a couple of decades. Return for games only a few times per season since.

There is and has long been a disconnect between "being successful at the highest level in our school's signature sport" and what our school is willing to do to achieve it. Applaud some recent season successes, but anyone believing Mooney is capable of leading us to a consistently successful program is delusional. The record is the record. It ain't happened and it ain't going to happen even with PQ funding facilities and throwing NIL money at the problem. Coach, nice guy, has serious deficiencies that cannot be papered over by money/facilities.

Am exactly what the athletic program doesn't want. A fan so disgruntled that can no longer support the MBB program financially or in attendance ($5 discount tickets take my place though so UR still gets credit for a fanny). My support goes to other Spider teams.

Frustrated and disgusted for years.

There's at least two of us. I'm right there with you with the exception of attending any game so long as Mooney is the coach.

 

[Eight Legger]

As a bonus, they do know the system already.

On the flip side, they suck at it.

 

[Spiderwiz]

My support goes to other Spider teams.

I do not disagree with the thought. My concern all along is wondering if this practically works. My fear is that all sports, except for the "featured" basketball, have a set budget bucket and any designated donations going that designated bucket simply result in previously UR allocated dollars "overflowing" into the basketball reservoir.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

There's at least two of us. I'm right there with you with the exception of attending any game so long as Mooney is the coach.

I supported the team during Lewis Mills and Carl Sloan years and saw some pretty bad teams. The frustrating thing here is that if Mooney was CEO of a company and had more unprofitable years than profitable, he would not have lasted 20 years. For the shareholders would be receiving squat for dividends. If he turns this team around over the next two months, I will declare him a miracle worker.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I supported the team during Lewis Mills and Carl Sloan years and saw some pretty bad teams. The frustrating thing here is that if Mooney was CEO of a company and had more unprofitable years than profitable, he would not have lasted 20 years. For the shareholders would be receiving squat for dividends. If he turns this team around over the next two months, I will declare him a miracle worker.

But what is definition of turnaround? I mean at this point - if they go .500 in the league, I would call that a pretty good job - but that is only because the beginning of the year was so bad. But should you get credit or overly excited for that? I don't think so - but I got a feeling the leaders/administration will.

 

[spider23]

but that is only because the beginning of the year was so bad. But should you get credit or overly excited for that? I don't think so - but I got a feeling the leaders/administration will.

Yep, big part of the issue is that any little bump in performance is treated like a herculean win for lil ol Richmond Spiders by the admin I believe. I think our best chance is following scenario - we continue to lose at this rate for this season, next and start bad the following year - when we have the super class coming into what should be a turn around season. Mooney's record starts inching closer and closer to .500. He steps away in order to maintain a .525 winning percentage. Hardt also has retired or decides to go at that point. We get lucky and hire an AD that is motivated and values getting to the NCAA's by our once nationally known basketball prorgram. Ukrops steps in and forms an NIL collective powered by some big donors AND some commercial entities. We have positive mojo back, instead of this sorry sorry state in which we just hope.

Lot of hurdles to this type of scenario. How old is Mooney's oldest son. I'm sure Mooney is waiting for him to step on the court, like the nephew.

Happy New Year!!

 

[SpiderTrap]

What is this "super class" you speak of?

I had high expectations for a transfer from Michigan, UCONN, and then solid transfers in Nesovic and Beagle - and they have not turned out as expected.

 

[SpiderGuy]

I supported the team during Lewis Mills and Carl Sloan years and saw some pretty bad teams. The frustrating thing here is that if Mooney was CEO of a company and had more unprofitable years than profitable, he would not have lasted 20 years. For the shareholders would be receiving squat for dividends. If he turns this team around over the next two months, I will declare him a miracle worker.

Good logic. I've used similar business & investment comparisons in the past to our basketball program. I'm convinced that little that is taught in our Business School applies to our basketball program.

 

[urmite]

You know we always call for a La Salle or a Fordham to get kicked out of the league for being bad. The way we’re headed we’ll be at their level.

So you’re saying we’ll improve?

 

[Eight Legger]

The best case scenario is that everyone on this message board kicks in a few bucks twice a week to play Powerball together until we win $2 billion, at which point we establish the strongest NIL in D1 sports, buy a sailboat for Queally and aim it east, fire Hardt and Mooney, hire Fan1 as AD, eliminate the kamunicashuns DePartmant and replace it with fifth-grade interns, and get ourselves a young, motivated coach who understands what rebounding is.

 

[GKiller]

What is this "super class" you speak of?

I had high expectations for a transfer from Michigan, UCONN, and then solid transfers in Nesovic and Beagle - and they have not turned out as expected.

I believe super class is the #nextbestclass. The 2 current redshirts added to the 3 incoming freshman, 2 of whom r from Richmond. We r off the portal Trap. U didn’t get the memo? Less portal in future. Back onto hs recruiting heavy. Plus less spots from transfers unless we have a lot leaving. Also less roster spots, need for Moon nephew & son in the pipeline.

 

[spider23]

Correct - are eggs are in the Redshirts and next year freshman class basket now. That basically pushes the clock on any expectations to the 2026-2027 season. If that season goes south we will discuss how we have not had the NIL to compete, and maybe need to look at that Patriot league escape hatch.