Official hot seat thread Mooney
- Thread starter Gospiders06
- Start date
I always thought it was possible for us to win 4 in 4 days, but would have bet against it happening. I would not say fortunate, but I do think had Dayton's guard not rolled his ankle we may not have won that game.
the only way I see us a "fortunate" is that we wouldn't have danced withouth winning the tournament. if we had a stronger regular season, we could have avoided that stress. or avoided the 4 straight days thing. but it's not that easy. the other guys are trying to win too.
nothing fortunate about our winning the those tournament games though. we beat teams. we played well.
nothing fortunate about our winning the those tournament games though. we beat teams. we played well.
I think the discussion here relates to the context of "fortunate." Clearly if you win the conference tournament as the sixth seed, it's hard to suggest that that was a widely expected outcome. In that sense, of course we were "fortunate" to have won because it was unexpected.
But 4700 is interpreting it as a suggestion that we only won those games because of luck, and so I understand the frustration. We clearly won each of those games because we were the better team. We made our own fortune. I do think it's fair to wonder what happens in the Dayton game if Smith doesn't get hurt, so that probably counts as a little good fortune for us that he didn't play the second half. But maybe we win anyway. Regardless, we did win and still had to overcome a 15-point deficit to do it.
But 4700 is interpreting it as a suggestion that we only won those games because of luck, and so I understand the frustration. We clearly won each of those games because we were the better team. We made our own fortune. I do think it's fair to wonder what happens in the Dayton game if Smith doesn't get hurt, so that probably counts as a little good fortune for us that he didn't play the second half. But maybe we win anyway. Regardless, we did win and still had to overcome a 15-point deficit to do it.
Let me frame "fortunate" in this context. Some may agree & others not.
We under-performed expectations & potential OOC. At 10-8 in conference play, we under-performed expectations & potential.
My take is we were "fortunate" because we played to our potential in the A10 Tournament. This was the team that everyone expected to see all throughout the season. And because of playing to our potential when it mattered most, I certainly don't call it over-performing.
Great A10 Tournament wins & into NCAA Tournament. Play to who you are, and you will be rewarded.
You guys are all overthinking “fortunate”. All I meant by this was that the probabilities of us winning the A10 tournament from our seed were what, 7% I think? It is very rare that anyone outside the top 4 seeds win it, that’s just math.
I was not making any assessment of the coach or the team, they clearly had enough experience and skill to catch fire which they did.
I was not making any assessment of the coach or the team, they clearly had enough experience and skill to catch fire which they did.
I hear you T, but in a 14 team conference, or pretty much any decent conference, no team will have a very high probablity to win the tourney. For example, VCU, as a 3 seed, would have had to beat us, Dayton, and Davidson. Or, look at the 4/5 teams. They would need to win the 4/5 game just to get to the semis to play Davidson. Then, after that, they still have the title game. Those are difficult 3 team parlays, and Vegas would give you real good odds on them. So, yes, winning 4 in a row as a 6 seed sounds incredibly hard, but, despite some regular season struggles, I don't think we were a normal 6 seed. I remember hearing a few media guys say watch out for us in the tourney. When you break each game down, and realize that we had earlier lost to each of the final 3 teams we played in the last seconds, combined with our talent, it looked very doable going in.
Dayton had a very high probability of winning the A10 tournament in 2020. Vegas gave them a 70% chance.
Bit of an anomaly since they were a likely 1 NCAA seed. In general 4700 is right most any team will have low probability in a conf tourney setting. Ours was even lower, esp factoring in we had to win an extra game, which is why were we pushing for a top 4 seed bc it makes a difference. The fact that other teams had fairly low probabilities too doesn't really mean much tho. If someone says we overcame the odds that's fair. I agree it's not a reflection on capability. It happens in sports, just not to us in a while see our A10 conf history. But this year we got it done ultimately & that is what matters.
PS not sure if anyone answered this for 4700. But no I would never tell a player you guys were fortunate to win. That sounds like it was roulette. And I agree it does come off negatively. Plus I think most here are supportive of the guys, but it's different when you're a high visible highly paid professional coach.
However could I see myself or someone else saying "that was an incredible run"...yeah. Guess what it means basically the same thing as the other comment but has a more positive connotation.
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Whether it is right or wrong, I don't think I read that too often on this board...
Objectively, my cousin is not a particularly smart guy. That doesn’t mean I need to say that to his face for it to be true.
The team had a great run to end the year, I’m glad they did so. Looking for a repeat in the near future.
I would think even the whiners (which at times I felt like joining) were proven wrong.
And, what he has done regarding the transfer portal is absolutely remarkable.
I am proud of our program, and only hope no one takes their foot off of the throttle,
and rests on accomplishments earned.
I'm just going to say how much I cannot stand shit like this. I mean god forbid some of us expected more than zero NCAA appearances in a goddamn decade. Good god. How dare we be upset. We should have just asked for more of the same -- you know, like fans of exactly zero other legitimate D1 programs would have.
I'm ecstatic about the way we finished the year and about the work we did in the portal. I hope we've turned the corner. But this kind of garbage is just maddening to read.
For the record, I don't understand the Vineyard Vines mystique or why sports programs are selling t-shirts with that logo shown more prominently than their own. Bizarre.
Not sure why some have to pick one side or the other - both things can be true at the same time.
1. We have mostly underperformed the last decade - blame this on recruiting, admissions, coaching, lack of depth, whatever. It's hard to argue with the results.
2. We made the tourney, won a game and have had as great of an off-season as could have been imagined.
Those of us who wanted Mooney gone weren't "proven wrong" by the past couple months of success. This is what we've wanted and known we were capable of all along. If he can keep this up and build off of it I'm all for him staying here.
He's earned a little favor back now and I'm cautiously optimistic that it will continue. But if we slide back to extended stretches of average or slightly above average basketball again it is not wrong of us to ask for a change.
I follow that Coaching Changes account just for the entertainment, but in general it is a POS account, with little accuracy, and is wrong so often that they claim multiple coaches have access to it - and pass the blame to "the other guy". Guy running it definitely is a truther type, only post pro mooney and ignores negatives.
Yeah I posted it for the entertainment value. Can't take that account too seriously. I look at it occasionally, heck even Richmond bball follows it, but they try to be edgy and funny. Sometimes they r, often times not. And they love to play both sides. The VV comment was solid, but the overall premise wasn't. I mean if fans or others can't speak up when a coach at a school like Richmond is 2 for 15 NCAA & looking at 2 for 16 their whole twitter handle probably wouldn't even exist. Moon is still only 3 for 16 ncaa, 19-20 doesn't count since no tourney but he got to make it with up 21-22 anyway. Let's go 4 for 17.
I can‘t argue with your sentiments, but my last words were-
“hope no one takes their foot off of the throttle,
and rests on accomplishments earned.”
I think that is what you are saying too.
For several years, many on here wanted change. I got that. After our 2 losing seasons, I specifically said on here that I could see if people wanted a change. I didn't agree with that, but I said I understood the other opinions. What usually happened with that is my opinion of not thinking we should make a coaching change brought a relentless amount of attacking from those that did. Not only attacking, but a bunch of garbage conspiracy theories. The anti Mooney crowd went into full attack mode after every positive or optimistic post on here, criticizing not only our coaches and players, but any fan on here who did not agree with them.
Maybe some of you enjoy that. Maybe it is fun for you to attack like that, and criticize everything. But, just my opinion, I think the board is a much better place when posters can disagree and debate topics without going into attack mode.
Maybe some of you enjoy that. Maybe it is fun for you to attack like that, and criticize everything. But, just my opinion, I think the board is a much better place when posters can disagree and debate topics without going into attack mode.
VT4700 - just curious, if we lost to Rhode Island in the first round by 15 (the halftime score), would you have considered our 19-13, 10-8 season an abject failure? Would you have been onboard for a change at that point?
I sure as hell would have. I’m obviously ecstatic with the finish, and it was maybe the most enjoyable sports run I’ve ever witnessed. But, 90% of the season was mediocre.
College basketball is so unique in that you can get hot and win a tournament at the end, turning an entire season around in a matter of 4 days. No other major sports (CFB, pro leagues) to my knowledge offer an opportunity similar to this.
I sure as hell would have. I’m obviously ecstatic with the finish, and it was maybe the most enjoyable sports run I’ve ever witnessed. But, 90% of the season was mediocre.
College basketball is so unique in that you can get hot and win a tournament at the end, turning an entire season around in a matter of 4 days. No other major sports (CFB, pro leagues) to my knowledge offer an opportunity similar to this.
the coach can build a roster. he can teach and lead. he can make adjustments. he can't go out and win games though. players have to win games.
if we didn't go on that run I'd have been on board with a change ... mainly because our fan base or at least this board was just too divided and frustrated ... and despite the fact that I think Mooney has been doing a good job recruiting and coaching for a good while now after a period about 7-10 years ago where he clearly didn't land enough good players.
I love the talent he's put together recently. he really succeeded in rebuilding a roster that we knew was taking major hits to graduation this spring.
if we didn't go on that run I'd have been on board with a change ... mainly because our fan base or at least this board was just too divided and frustrated ... and despite the fact that I think Mooney has been doing a good job recruiting and coaching for a good while now after a period about 7-10 years ago where he clearly didn't land enough good players.
I love the talent he's put together recently. he really succeeded in rebuilding a roster that we knew was taking major hits to graduation this spring.
I would have been disappointed with this season had we lost to RI, but I would not have called that an abject failure. You said 90% of the season was mediocre. Well, mediocre and abject failure mean 2 different things, right?
And, I would not have wanted a coaching change because I like the way recruiting has gone the past few years, and would have felt, like I do now, we had a very good future ahead of us. Don't forget, I didn't want a change after the 2 losing seasons, so it shouldn't be surprising I wouldn't want one after going 30-17 in the A-10 the past 3 years. But, like I said a few years ago, I would have understood if people wanted a coaching change had we lost to RI.
Fair points. To clarify my “abject failure” and “mediocre” comments, a mediocre 2021-2022 season would have been an abject failure considering all of the firepower and potential the team had. I think everyone would agree on that
We played about 8 good days of basketball with miraculous results. It saved Mooney for another 5 years.
