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Off Season Grade

spider23

spider23

Spider's Club
May 31, 2002
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I am going with B+. Really good job in the portal, we needed to strike while the iron was hot, and we did so.

I know there is some difference of opinion/philosophy on here - some don't believe we need athleticism inside - I do happen to like to have some strong athletic guys.

Shooting - we needed to add shooting. Roche is a tremendous pick up in this regard. Unfortunately coming off the injuries last season, Sherod was never quite back to his earlier form. Roche can bring that, and looks like the type that can carry us for stretches. Bigelow - I like this add, good length, shooting numbers were OK this past season. If he is a high 30's shooter from 3 (and has that potential from his pre injury stats) , then this grade goes to an A.

Golden replacement - Quinn looks like a slam dunk, and we had some competition for his services, so well done by Mooney and staff to get him in here - and two years left. Concern: looks slower than Golden. Have a source that thinks he will get killed in pick and roll in the A10. The good thing is he looks a legit 7 feet and not afraid to use that size. Great passer. Overall the positives outweigh concerns with athleticism/defense.

Interior athleticism - When Burton is not in the game, we could struggle defensively again against teams with legit interior players. I think Grace showed a lot of improvement last season. If he can continue that and play good D this concern is less. I see Bigelow as more of a wing/outside player, but has height and length to give us minutes in there. If he proves to be a capable interior defender, will address this concern too. Lastly, I do agree with those that will say the game is changing, this is true. The post up center is becoming extinct in the NBA, and we see a lot of four out type offenses in NCAA too. Still, my preference was to land a Nweke, Bryce Golden type on the interior to shore things up. Two out of the last 3 years we saw our offense run best when we had Grant and Cayo scoring from 5 feet and in. It worked well and opened up shots for the perimeter guys.

Overall, great job by Mooney and staff to identify guys, get them on campus and close the deal. Well done.
 
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23, I couldn't agree more and would give the same grade. I agree I wish we would could have gotten a Bryce Golden type player at the 4. But the Quinn and Roche pick-ups were slam dunks (I do share concerns about Quinn's athleticism). Both of those guys had multiple BCS offers out of the portal, so Mooney went out and got guys with bigger offers and got them to come to Richmond. Great job by the staff and I hope that dispenses with the silly notion that we can not compete with BCS programs for players.
 
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we'll likely all agree it was a great offseason. I hoped we'd use Tyler defensively at the 4 a lot next year, and I think we have to now.
we went into the offseason concerned about the center position, our shooting, our rebounding and our depth. we addressed all of it.
we're a strong 10 deep ... more if any of the 3 lesser known freshmen impress. (not that I think we'll go 10 deep).
 
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97spiderfan said:
I hope that dispenses with the silly notion that we can not compete with BCS programs for players.
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Great point here, this would drive me crazy as an excuse. Yes, some guys want to play in the ACC or BE and will prioritize that over all else. BUT, if you are getting to the NCAA's on a regular basis, you can win those battles using your available tools (playing time, system, etc etc).

Yes we can compete with the big boys, just ask Iowa, and hopefully all on staff continue to do so and land top talent.
 
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spiderman said:
we'll likely all agree it was a great offseason. I hoped we'd use Tyler defensively at the 4 a lot next year, and I think we have to now.
we went into the offseason concerned about the center position, our shooting, our rebounding and our depth. we addressed all of it.
we're a strong 10 deep ... more if any of the 3 lesser known freshmen impress. (not that I think we'll go 10 deep).
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Agree that Burton will be key, I think you made the point that even if Burton is a 3/wing, he is a physical force and grabbing rebounds no matter where he is playing on offense.

If Burton goes pro, then the lack of landing an athletic player for the interior becomes exacerbated, and this grade drops to a B. B minus if Burton is gone, and Bigelow is stuck behind others on the depth chart.
 
I am one that is surprised at the transfer talent we got. On paper and film - they appear to be pretty good players. My only concern is integrating into Mooney's system which I always feel like takes players a year to learn before they really get it.

With that being said - before the additions of the portal, my expectation was win 16-18 games, and if we get lucky and get hot - maybe we make the NIT. That would have been a successful season in my opinion.

Now with the guys we added - I would say the expectation has moved up. I think we should be a solid NIT team this season, and if we get lucky and get hot - we are sitting on the bubble come NCAA time and maybe sneak in.

So now my expectation is - we make NIT next season. Overachieving would be are sitting on bubble come selection sunday with 50/50 chance of making tourney (even if we don't make it - - I consider us overachieving at that point). Under-achieving would be no NCAA or NIT next season.
 
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I think landing these three guys for 2,2 and 3 years ups the offseason grade. When was the last time UR had a legit 7 footer? Lot of 6'10 type guys but 7 footer? A shooter like Roche showed this year is so valuable and if Bigelow can be a versatile shooting forward, the amount that will open up Moon's offense, compared to the alternating post ups for Cayo and Golden where the other was neutralized on the outside (especially Cayo) - Bigelow at the 4 gives Quinn another outlet and allows a true 4 out offense to work.

Solid A- from me. If these guys can also play defense and board effectively, I will get really high on these moves.
 
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spider23 said:
Agree that Burton will be key, I think you made the point that even if Burton is a 3/wing, he is a physical force and grabbing rebounds no matter where he is playing on offense.

If Burton goes pro, then the lack of landing an athletic player for the interior becomes exacerbated, and this grade drops to a B. B minus if Burton is gone, and Bigelow is stuck behind others on the depth chart.
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If Burton goes pro on 6/1, won't we have an open position? And won't there be talent left in the portal?
 
brooklyn brownstone said:
I think landing these three guys for 2,2 and 3 years ups the offseason grade. When was the last time UR had a legit 7 footer? Lot of 6'10 type guys but 7 footer? A shooter like Roche showed this year is so valuable and if Bigelow can be a versatile shooting forward, the amount that will open up Moon's offense, compared to the alternating post ups for Cayo and Golden where the other was neutralized on the outside (especially Cayo) - Bigelow at the 4 gives Quinn another outlet and allows a true 4 out offense to work.

Solid A- from me. If these guys can also play defense and board effectively, I will get really high on these moves.
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Roche reminds me of Scott Stapleton a few years back with a better shot. Scott is was a more of a slasher.
 
gcarter52 said:
Roche reminds me of Scott Stapleton a few years back with a better shot. Scott is was a more of a slasher.
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Wow, that would not be my comparison. Scott was a lefty, high leverage defender, high level athlete, rarely if ever shot from outside of 12 feet. Great player, but not the comparison I was thinking of. This guy is shooting coming out of pick before he catches the ball. In addition to being a shooter, he looks like a scorer - knows how to create space and/or get the shot off super quickly.
 
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spider23 said:
Wow, that would not be my comparison. Scott was a lefty, high leverage defender, high level athlete, rarely if ever shot from outside of 12 feet. Great player, but not the comparison I was thinking of. This guy is shooting coming out of pick before he catches the ball. In addition to being a shooter, he looks like a scorer - knows how to create space and/or get the shot off super quickly.
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Yes, he brings more intangibles. Well, it is mines.
 
SpiderTrap said:
I am one that is surprised at the transfer talent we got. On paper and film - they appear to be pretty good players. My only concern is integrating into Mooney's system which I always feel like takes players a year to learn before they really get it.

With that being said - before the additions of the portal, my expectation was win 16-18 games, and if we get lucky and get hot - maybe we make the NIT. That would have been a successful season in my opinion.

Now with the guys we added - I would say the expectation has moved up. I think we should be a solid NIT team this season, and if we get lucky and get hot - we are sitting on the bubble come NCAA time and maybe sneak in.

So now my expectation is - we make NIT next season. Overachieving would be are sitting on bubble come selection sunday with 50/50 chance of making tourney (even if we don't make it - - I consider us overachieving at that point). Under-achieving would be no NCAA or NIT next season.
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We have basically a whole new team next year. I think any expectations of what this team might achieve this next year is like throwing a dart at the dart board. Yes, we are gonna have a lot talent but how that talent gels and plays together, how long it takes for Mooney and staff to figure out the proper personnel groups are huge unknowns.

I honestly can't remember an offseason where we have the had the wholesale turnover in personnel that we are having right now.

I think the staff has done a great job of getting talent that on paper looks like it is a home run to fill our needs. Now, we just need to wait and see of how that talent plays together on the court.
 
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After getting Roche have to give Mooney and Co. an A. Coach prioritized well in what positions were needed. Like that all 3 aren't one-and-done grad transfers. Couldn't have gotten a better 3PT shooter than Roche. Quinn probably a bit slow but with his size alone blocks and rebounds with naturally come his way. And Bigelow don't expect much scoring but numbers show he likes to hit boards. Hopefully plays good defense too?

So just my early thinking Burton Goose, and Grace are three starters. If Quinn dominates Matt in practice I'll be pleasantly surprised. From other returning Spider players only Crabtree and Bailey have any decent minutes played though I surmise both if not injured would have played more.

Looking at VerbalC I see they classify Roche a SF and Bigelow a SG? I see it completely the opposite and going by rebounding stats Big plays like a PF. Looking at Roche's numbers he was used exactly like Cal used Grady at UK. Both rarely saw the ball in possession except when time to shoot.

If I have it right let's go with the available roster ....
Burton
Goose
Grace
Crabtree
Bailey
Roche
Quinn
Bigelow
Randolph
Dread
Nelson
Noyes
Walz

So too early to know who starts and who gets into the regular rotation but Mooney has decent size this year. Predominately for me in the SG to SF positions with will make it quite interesting to see how it plays out.

Lots of questions to be answered. If all things equal, I do like big lineups. Can Bailey play PG if Nelson isn't the guy right off the bat? If Mooney plays bigger and slower might he incorporate a zone at times? `

Whatever, been awhile since strong feeling of CAN"T WAIT for the season to start. GO SPIDERS!
 
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97spiderfan said:
We have basically a whole new team next year. I think any expectations of what this team might achieve this next year is like throwing a dart at the dart board. Yes, we are gonna have a lot talent but how that talent gels and plays together, how long it takes for Mooney and staff to figure out the proper personnel groups are huge unknowns.

I honestly can't remember an offseason where we have the had the wholesale turnover in personnel that we are having right now.

I think the staff has done a great job of getting talent that on paper looks like it is a home run to fill our needs. Now, we just need to wait and see of how that talent plays together on the court.
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With the dart analogy, are you trying to say it is hard or easy to predict? Some people are good at darts, haha.
 
SouthJerseySpiderFan said:
If Quinn dominates Matt in practice I'll be pleasantly surprised.
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I fully expect Quinn to dominate Grace on the offensive end. Grace isn't a great big man defender, especially against a guy with this size.
my question is more can Quinn defend Grace, or other Grace-like players?
 
urmite said:
If Burton goes pro on 6/1, won't we have an open position? And won't there be talent left in the portal?
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If Burton goes pro the draft grade drops for me as the need for a 4 type becomes a glaring weakness. I dont think that will happen. A nice, truly-stretch four the following year will be priority one with Grace gone and maybe Burton.
 
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LongTimeSpiderFan said:
If Burton goes pro the draft grade drops for me as the need for a 4 type becomes a glaring weakness. I dont think that will happen. A nice, truly-stretch four the following year will be priority one with Grace gone and maybe Burton.
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it would be a huge hit obviously. we couldn't replace Tyler's worth.
I think more than anything it would speed up Walz's schedule.
use Walz as the backup at the 5 and let Grace focus on playing forward.
 
LongTimeSpiderFan said:
If Burton goes pro the draft grade drops for me as the need for a 4 type becomes a glaring weakness. I dont think that will happen. A nice, truly-stretch four the following year will be priority one with Grace gone and maybe Burton.
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If Burton goes Pro, and we replace him with Carr of Delaware, or Carlson of Wisconsin, or even Abercromie of Rice, the grade drops?

We are not looking for anyone now, but if there is no Burton I expect we would be, and how would we know if the grade drops until we are back to 13?
 
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urmite said:
If Burton goes Pro, and we replace him with Carr of Delaware, or Carlson of Wisconsin, or even Abercromie of Rice, the grade drops?

We are not looking for anyone now, but if there is no Burton I expect we would be, and how would we know if the grade drops until we are back to 13?
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Well, my assumption is that we replace him with someone of lower ability and impact. Abercrombie has bounced around, Carr is on the rise, but no where near Burton. Carlson, I don't know about. I get it, not necessarily Mooney's fault if Burton opts in the draft, but do think if he does, we have not replaced his rebounding and athleticism in the portal. So even though I don't like that we did not land a B. Golden, or Nweke, or G. Thompson type, I am only slightly marking the grade down. If no Burton, it drops.
 
SpiderTrap said:
I am one that is surprised at the transfer talent we got……My only concern is integrating into Mooney's system which I always feel like takes players a year to learn before they really get it.
Click to expand...

97spiderfan said:
We have basically a whole new team next year……how (the) talent gels and plays together, how long it takes for Mooney and staff to figure out the proper personnel groups are huge unknowns.
Click to expand...
These are the curb the enthusiasm statements. Seems like a Mooney team would need a couple years to gel and that is why I think getting transfers with multiple years left was key. A NIT birth would be a great achievement for a totally unproven team.

From Burton’s standpoint is coming back for another year to play in the NIT enough? Or is it another A10 championship or bust year? These are the fun off-season questions to ask.
 
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RichmondNative said:
These are the curb the enthusiasm statements. Seems like a Mooney team would need a couple years to gel and that is why I think getting transfers with multiple years left was key. A NIT birth would be a great achievement for a totally unproven team.

From Burton’s standpoint is coming back for another year to play in the NIT enough? Or is it another A10 championship or bust year? These are the fun off-season questions to ask.
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Burton could be thinking, wow, we might go back to the dance, and I could average about 18 a game and be A-10 player of the year.
 
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RichmondNative said:
These are the curb the enthusiasm statements. Seems like a Mooney team would need a couple years to gel and that is why I think getting transfers with multiple years left was key. A NIT birth would be a great achievement for a totally unproven team.

From Burton’s standpoint is coming back for another year to play in the NIT enough? Or is it another A10 championship or bust year? These are the fun off-season questions to ask.
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Our administration will never put an NCAA or bust label on a season or A10 title or bust. Because its not about winning - its about competing.

But we as fans can put expectations on this team - and given the roster we have put together, and assuming Burton comes back - I say we are a solid NIT team. A team that falls in the middle of the pack in NIT. Not on NCAA bubble at year's end - clearly out of that discussion, but a solid 4-6 seed in NIT. If we fail to make NIT - I would say that is a disappointment and below expectations. Anything above NIT - like NCAA tourney or even just missing tourney would be exceeding expectations.
 
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spider23 said:
I am going with B+. Really good job in the portal, we needed to strike while the iron was hot, and we did so.

I know there is some difference of opinion/philosophy on here - some don't believe we need athleticism inside - I do happen to like to have some strong athletic guys.

Shooting - we needed to add shooting. Roche is a tremendous pick up in this regard. Unfortunately coming off the injuries last season, Sherod was never quite back to his earlier form. Roche can bring that, and looks like the type that can carry us for stretches. Bigelow - I like this add, good length, shooting numbers were OK this past season. If he is a high 30's shooter from 3 (and has that potential from his pre injury stats) , then this grade goes to an A.

Golden replacement - Quinn looks like a slam dunk, and we had some competition for his services, so well done by Mooney and staff to get him in here - and two years left. Concern: looks slower than Golden. Have a source that thinks he will get killed in pick and roll in the A10. The good thing is he looks a legit 7 feet and not afraid to use that size. Great passer. Overall the positives outweigh concerns with athleticism/defense.

Interior athleticism - When Burton is not in the game, we could struggle defensively again against teams with legit interior players. I think Grace showed a lot of improvement last season. If he can continue that and play good D this concern is less. I see Bigelow as more of a wing/outside player, but has height and length to give us minutes in there. If he proves to be a capable interior defender, will address this concern too. Lastly, I do agree with those that will say the game is changing, this is true. The post up center is becoming extinct in the NBA, and we see a lot of four out type offenses in NCAA too. Still, my preference was to land a Nweke, Bryce Golden type on the interior to shore things up. Two out of the last 3 years we saw our offense run best when we had Grant and Cayo scoring from 5 feet and in. It worked well and opened up shots for the perimeter guys.

Overall, great job by Mooney and staff to identify guys, get them on campus and close the deal. Well done.
Click to expand...
B+? Your rating scale in unrealistic.

What A10 team had a better net result form the transfer portal than U of R? Also, there are approximate 200 to 250 non power conference teams. Can you name 5 that had better net results from the portal? I think the answer to the first question is none and the answer to the second question is there are not 5 non power conferences teams that had better net results from the portal. The coaching staff knocked it out of the park. They deserve a solid A and probably and A+.

Many on this board were talking about high single digit wins for next year, 6 weeks ago, which was way to negative. With these 3 pickups we are looking at a very good team not only next year, but the following year.
 
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spiderman said:
curious ... was that from someone who'd know or just speculation from this board. thanks.
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I’ve watched him play locally for the past couple years. Most kids he goes against are 6’4”-6’6” in the Central League. Didn’t dominate as much as you would expect for someone with his size.
 
UR80sfan said:
B+? Your rating scale in unrealistic.

What A10 team had a better net result form the transfer portal than U of R? Also, there are approximate 200 to 250 non power conference teams. Can you name 5 that had better net results from the portal? I think the answer to the first question is none and the answer to the second question is there are not 5 non power conferences teams that had better net results from the portal. The coaching staff knocked it out of the park. They deserve a solid A and probably and A+.

Many on this board were talking about high single digit wins for next year, 6 weeks ago, which was way to negative. With these 3 pickups we are looking at a very good team not only next year, but the following year.
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Agreed -Solid A…
 
PASpider said:
I’ve watched him play locally for the past couple years. Most kids he goes against are 6’4”-6’6” in the Central League. Didn’t dominate as much as you would expect for someone with his size.
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understood and I appreciate the first hand scouting. LongTime said he had heard Walz was "far from ready". just wondering if he's quoting this board of if he's recently heard something more. I don't need Walz to dominate as a freshman. I'm wondering if he could give 10 solid minutes of post defense if needed.
 
I think this is going to be a slow start to the season while all the new pieces gel, and then finish on an upswing at the end. Maybe good enough to make an A10 tourney run, but might skip on some banana peels in non-conference. Gilyard was a coach on the floor. That’s a lot to replace. Mooney is still the biggest liability of this whole program, so if he keeps a low profile it will be fine.
 
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