Next Coach

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

I’ll take Longwood’s coach.

I LOL at this but? And makes me think of the pro-Mooney posters here who post reasons (excuses) to backup he still deserves to be UR's coach. Now I start to hear that Longwood has a talented team and ST F only lost to BC by 5.

Respectfully to those posters, I disagree. Those schools along with IUPUI (#281) and Coppin (#348) and Oral (#263) and High Point (#260) will be coming to town. With the players Mooney has available, he should coach them to wins blindfolded. And maybe I'm crazy but I think he will, not blindfolded of course.

 

[GKiller]

GKiller - no offense to P Belein, but that is too much of jump now that we are in the A10. If our AD considers him for the job, it just shows we are looking for the cheapest option out there. Taking a guy from the DII ranks to the A10, just because his name is Beilein - I am sorry, I would not like to see this happen. Now - if he were to take a job like Siena or Marist an take them to an NCAA tourney or two, then I am interested. But not now - this is a different time and different league then when UR hired his dad.

I'd like him to have more experience too. I don't think anybody is trying to build any consensus right now. & I remember u weren't the biggest Beilein guy. Only putting it out there. Watch he'll come up. He's going to get a little bigger job than Siena/Marist too. Sometimes u have to project and get ahead of the curve or a hire becomes no longer viable for you. He's trending. It's a longer shot yes but I would not dismiss it.

 

[spider23]

I would take Patrick Beilein over one of these assistants that has no head coaching experience. Looking at PB's work so far at two different levels as the head man:

Season Team Overall Conference Standing Postseason
West Virginia Wesleyan Bobcats (West Virginia Intercollegiate Athletic Conference) (2012–2013)
2012–13 West Virginia Wesleyan 12–15 9–13
West Virginia Wesleyan Bobcats (Mountain East Conference) (2013–2014)
2013–14 West Virginia Wesleyan 20–12 14–8
West Virginia Wesleyan: 32–27 (.542) 23–21 (.523)
Le Moyne Dolphins (Northeast-10 Conference) (2015–present)
2015–16 LeMoyne 10–17 7–13 T–4th (Southwest)
2016–17 LeMoyne 22–7 16–4 1st (Southwest) NCAA Division II First Round
2017–18 LeMoyne 27–7 18–2 1st (Southwest) NCAA Division II Elite Eight
Le Moyne: 59–31 (.656) 41–19 (.683)
Total: 91–58 (.611)

At his current D2 stop, he has taken a program and in second seaon went to NCAA's and then Elite 8. Not bad.

We have great facilities, good conference, nice school and excellent academics. We really really should be able to recruit near the top of the A10 and be a contender in the A10 most years. I would also think this could be attractive to a guy like Wes Miller, even if he has ACC aspirations - he is making $300,000 per now, why not come to Richmond for 800,000 to 1mil and improve your resume while you wait for that ACC opening?

 

[Spiderstew1962]

I would fire Mooney immediately and try to hire Dick Tarrant to be interim HC until the end of the season. I’m sure he has forgotten more about coaching basketball than Mooney will ever know!

 

[spider23]

I will say this, I don't know Tarrant's health or willingness to do so at his age, but that dude is a legit bad ass. Snuck in to watch practice a handful of times I was in college, and man each one was freaking intense. In fact saw a fist fight break out at one. He just watched it get broken up and started back in to the next drill. I bet he could do the job still for an interim season.

 

[spiderstudent17]

Nate Oats has Buffalo in the AP top 25 for the first time in school history

 

[iSpider]

The problem has been our school's unwillingness to bite the bullet on the 10 year contract.

Though I respect your opinion, I'm not so sure that you are totally correct with respect to the money issue. It may be a factor, but my experience tells me that there is more to it. Seems to me that UR has lacked the commitment needed to place itself at the next level athletically by its dawdlingness.

The University has routinely taken much longer than necessary to make needed coaching changes at every level regardless of salary. Just look at Shafer. Nice guy, but by now he should be a faint memory. Seems that unless there is some outcry from the public or alumni or some egregious behavior on the part of the coach there is never decisive action to make needed changes. The administration has a history of preferring timidity over resolve, avoidance over action. It's been a mark of the school since I can remember.

Mooney should have been given requirements for success a few years ago. Not canned, but told that he had to achieve certain standards or he would have to find other employment. He wasn't. Not sure why because it was surely warranted. And such lack of grit or inability to act by the University has been defining. It shows an inclination to accept failure. I wish it weren't that way, but that is how I see it.

Statements need to be made and actions need to be taken demonstrating a commitment to excel at the level we have set for our athletic programs. I haven't seen any such action except the throwing of money at facility improvement, which is important, but not the only ingredient necessary for success.

I have a lot of hope in the leadership of John Hardt, but it has to happen at the very top. The BOT and Dr. Crutcher need to let us know where we stand. We are now or will in the very near future be in a position to make a statement of commitment. Will we take such an opportunity "at the flood, lead[ing us] on to fortune"* or be "bound in shallows and in miseries.." and "lose our ventures?"*
I think that we might get a better read in the next year, by the University's action...or its inaction.

*Julius Caesar Act 4, scene 3, 218–224

 

[SpiderTrap]

I'd like him to have more experience too. I don't think anybody is trying to build any consensus right now. & I remember u weren't the biggest Beilein guy. Only putting it out there. Watch he'll come up. He's going to get a little bigger job than Siena/Marist too. Sometimes u have to project and get ahead of the curve or a hire becomes no longer viable for you. He's trending. It's a longer shot yes but I would not dismiss it.

I never had an issue with John Beilein here at UR. I just think it is silly that people hold him in such high regard and I think a lot of it has to do with his success post-UR. Which to me means nothing - once a coach leaves UR, I don't care what they do anywhere else, just how they helped UR at the time. JB was the right coach for UR at that time. Being in the CAA - we needed to run a particular system to be competitive with the bigger schools. His system, relying on 3 point shots and changing defenses allowed us to be a top program in the CAA, but also because of its unconventional nature at the time - allowed us to upset bigger schools as well. And when he coached us for 1 year in the A10 - it was perfect because the other schools were not used to playing against it, so he was able to ride that along with a seasoned team to the A10 title game in year 1. But times have changed - we have been to a sweet 16, are in the A10 playing with A10 players and are now paying the big bucks for our league at least for coaches (1 million per year). If we were still in the CAA - I would say Pat Beilein is an option, but truth is we are past hiring ahead of the curve at this point. We should be looking for either power 5 assistant coaches or coaches coming off an impressive run in a conference below the A10. I don't care if we are stepping stone - that is fine, as long as we keep hiring good coaches. I would even consider a big time head coach who has maybe been run out of their current program, but has a good history. But hiring from DII ranks or someone who just has 1 NCAA run to their name - I would like to think we are pass that as a program and school.

 

[spider23]

I don't like going the unproven P6 assistant at all. It's kind of like New England Patriots coordinators. They have all sucked as head coaches, maybe one doing decent, but most have sucked. just no way to know.
I would rather have a guy that has excelled as a head coach. It really is a crap shoot. We could get a guy that we are all unified and crazy about and he could not pan out. That is why it would be great if we were in year two or three of a new coach now. Instead, we are in Year minus 1 (at least) of the re-build. Let that sink in.

 

[MrTbone]

I don't like going the unproven P6 assistant at all. It's kind of like New England Patriots coordinators. They have all sucked as head coaches, maybe one doing decent, but most have sucked. just no way to know.
I would rather have a guy that has excelled as a head coach. It really is a crap shoot. We could get a guy that we are all unified and crazy about and he could not pan out. That is why it would be great if we were in year two or three of a new coach now. Instead, we are in Year minus 1 (at least) of the re-build. Let that sink in.

I think if an assistant is a known commodity as a recruiter, I would be willing to consider that. Obviously it's untenable if he has no x and o skills, but regardless, we need someone who has the ability to assemble a staff that can do in-game coaching, development, and recruiting.

 

[Captain Anderson]

I never had an issue with John Beilein here at UR. I just think it is silly that people hold him in such high regard and I think a lot of it has to do with his success post-UR. Which to me means nothing - once a coach leaves UR, I don't care what they do anywhere else, just how they helped UR at the time. JB was the right coach for UR at that time. Being in the CAA - we needed to run a particular system to be competitive with the bigger schools. His system, relying on 3 point shots and changing defenses allowed us to be a top program in the CAA, but also because of its unconventional nature at the time - allowed us to upset bigger schools as well. And when he coached us for 1 year in the A10 - it was perfect because the other schools were not used to playing against it, so he was able to ride that along with a seasoned team to the A10 title game in year 1. But times have changed - we have been to a sweet 16, are in the A10 playing with A10 players and are now paying the big bucks for our league at least for coaches (1 million per year). If we were still in the CAA - I would say Pat Beilein is an option, but truth is we are past hiring ahead of the curve at this point. We should be looking for either power 5 assistant coaches or coaches coming off an impressive run in a conference below the A10. I don't care if we are stepping stone - that is fine, as long as we keep hiring good coaches. I would even consider a big time head coach who has maybe been run out of their current program, but has a good history. But hiring from DII ranks or someone who just has 1 NCAA run to their name - I would like to think we are pass that as a program and school.

I've had the opportunity to meet Coach Beilein and I can see why so many people think so highly of him (UR and nationally). He couldn't have been a cooler guy to talk to and was genuinely interested in having a conversation...maybe he was having a good day when I met him but I doubt it, lol. His coaching resume since leaving UR stands on its own. Guy is a great coach. I was a senior at UR back in 1998 when he led us to the CAA tournament title (Awesome experience going to the Richmond Coliseum and watching/cheering with a bunch of fellow students and alums as we won the auto bid) and then upsetting South Carolina in the NCAA's. He will always be very well regarded by a lot of UR folks, myself amongst them.

 

[97spiderfan]

Whomever we end up hiring for our next coach, I would really like to see them truly engage the Richmond community. Mooney did the first couple years of his tenure, reaching out to the students, going to D-hall, ticket holder engagement, etc... To my knowledge that has stopped and he has become very insular and only does the scripted events that he has to do. Look at how so many other D-1 coaches are really out engaging the community.

Also, a coach who has the fire in his belly. Enough with this cerebral nonsense.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

To my knowledge that has stopped and he has become very insular and only does the scripted events that he has to do.

Ivan begs to differ.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

I never had an issue with John Beilein here at UR. I just think it is silly that people hold him in such high regard and I think a lot of it has to do with his success post-UR. Which to me means nothing - once a coach leaves UR, I don't care what they do anywhere else, just how they helped UR at the time. JB was the right coach for UR at that time. Being in the CAA - we needed to run a particular system to be competitive with the bigger schools. His system, relying on 3 point shots and changing defenses allowed us to be a top program in the CAA, but also because of its unconventional nature at the time - allowed us to upset bigger schools as well. And when he coached us for 1 year in the A10 - it was perfect because the other schools were not used to playing against it, so he was able to ride that along with a seasoned team to the A10 title game in year 1. But times have changed - we have been to a sweet 16, are in the A10 playing with A10 players and are now paying the big bucks for our league at least for coaches (1 million per year). If we were still in the CAA - I would say Pat Beilein is an option, but truth is we are past hiring ahead of the curve at this point. We should be looking for either power 5 assistant coaches or coaches coming off an impressive run in a conference below the A10. I don't care if we are stepping stone - that is fine, as long as we keep hiring good coaches. I would even consider a big time head coach who has maybe been run out of their current program, but has a good history. But hiring from DII ranks or someone who just has 1 NCAA run to their name - I would like to think we are pass that as a program and school.

John Beilein is one of the top coaches in America. That is a fact that is backed up by his achievements AND by the eye test. Anyone who knows the intricacies of coaching basketball can see that he is doing A LOT of things right. Richmond was just a short blip on radar for him.

Patrick Beilein is too unproven for my liking. In 10-more years he MAY have the resume and the skills to be a great coach at Richmond - or he may not. He (and others like him) would be a horrible hire at this point in time and likely a disaster because the Spider program is down. I hope that the AD has more savvy than to bring in an unknown who may or may not end up being successful (another like Mooney).

The Spider job will be desirable. Everything is in place to bring in a proven winner. A true rising star (like Nate Oats) or maybe even a Buzz Williams or Jaime Dixon type. Williams and Dixon were very successful, then their long tenures grew stale. Change job situations and Va. Tech is playing in the NCAA and sniffing top 25. Jaime Dixon has TCU winning the NIT in his first year and now headed to the NCAA in year two.

I am not talking about a retread like Anthony Grant. Grant has never been a great coach and he never will be. There are hundreds of others like him to stay away from. It is the Ad's job to know the difference.

It shouldn't be that difficult. The program now requires a bit of a rebuild. But, great coaches don't cower from a rebuild because they know that they can do it in a couple of years. I am confident that there are a lot of good coaches who would give their right arm to have the tradition, facilities, and salary that exists in Richmond. The AD has to make a good choice.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I agree with P6 assistant - I would take one if they were a proven recruiter. But with that being said - a proven recruiter will likely need some more relaxed admissions to make that work. But on that topic of assistants - I would put these two on the list, although they might be out of reach. UVA assistant Jason Williford - has been with Bennett a long time, is a Richmond native - and I would have to think he has been part of the recruiting at UVA as well as learned a lot from Bennett. Gonzaga assistant - Tommy Lloyd Provides the international recruiting touch at Gonzaga and has been on the staff there for over 18 years. He must know something about the formula to take a team to the next level. But he has turned down other jobs - so not sure if we would even have a chance, but worth a shot.

 

[64Spider]

Right one we need one of our current players to step up and be an on the floor leader/coach. TJ did that and I believe many times called plays or coached his teammates.

 

[nathanw19]

If Kenny Atkinson is let go by the Nets, I hope we’d be breaking down doors to bring him home.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

If Kenny Atkinson is let go by the Nets, I hope we’d be breaking down doors to bring him home.

Man I have thought this also. KAs fire and experience would be something we sorely need. He would not settle for less and he truly would understand the importance of being more competitive with VCU.

 

[VT4700]

Kenny is making 2.5 to 3 million a year and is not going anywhere. Nets are thrilled to have him, and if they were ever foolish enough to get rid of him, another nba team would quickly get him. He has a great reputation around the league by players and coaches.

 

[urmite]

I hear we have decided to get serious and are offering a 10 year contract at $18 million a year for a triumvirate of coaches combined.

Meet the new coaching staff...
John Beilein, Kenny Atkinson, and Nancy Lieberman

 

[SpiderTrap]

If your looking for UR connections - then you could try Winiecki, was lead assistant at Clemson, and then now in the G-League down in Florida. Player at UR and coach on 2004 NCAA team under Wainwright.

Kevin Eastman would be a big stretch, but if he is looking to coach again, worth the call. He seems to have a good gig in speaking now and writing books.

Mike Jones - Radford, this would mean they make the NCAA tourney again this year. That would be back to back appearances for them. Remember he coached under Beilein here at UR, as well as under Shaka at VCU - two contrasting styles and coaches - but both successful.

 

[spider23]

I mentioned KA a few years ago, no chance now - he is smitten with the NBA. I would take a look at Fleming, he did a wonderful job in Europe, with such a good rep that he was hired as the German national coach.

Trap, not being mean, but you are fired from the search committee. Too lazy to look now, but what was Eastman's record as head coach at various stops? You have not been a JB fan either, that is borderline nonsensical - he is a top 10 coach in the COUNTRY!!!

As long as we have PQ reading posts from VT and sman, we are doomed and we will muck along with Mr. mediocre.

 

[spider23]

And yes, I am still 67.8% that VT4700 is a wolf in sheep's clothing, despite his awkwardly forced Johnny Newman story. Never comments on anything we discuss between that story and Mooney regime.

 

[spider23]

Eastman went 10-19 and 10-19 last two years coaching, so yes let's see if he will return our phone call's. But damn, Patrick sucks huh? Young, motivated and genetically attached to JB. We need a reboot on Spidernation, this is the most rose colored glasses, inbred community I have seen. Come at me.

 

[spider23]

And if you are wondering about all these rants? It's because I am honestly trying to get excited about this team, and do like the players. But the lack of motivation, creativity, and adaptability I have seen from Mooney for 10 years tells me we cannot and will never win big with him.

 

[nathanw19]

And if you are wondering about all these rants? It's because I am honestly trying to get excited about this team, and do like the players. But the lack of motivation, creativity, and adaptability I have seen from Mooney for 10 years tells me we cannot and will never win big with him.

Love the passion! We need more of it!

I don’t think anyone doubts your love of all things Spiders, except maybe arachnophobia (that movie still freaks me out...).

 

[SpiderTrap]

I mentioned KA a few years ago, no chance now - he is smitten with the NBA. I would take a look at Fleming, he did a wonderful job in Europe, with such a good rep that he was hired as the German national coach.

Trap, not being mean, but you are fired from the search committee. Too lazy to look now, but what was Eastman's record as head coach at various stops? You have not been a JB fan either, that is borderline nonsensical - he is a top 10 coach in the COUNTRY!!!

As long as we have PQ reading posts from VT and sman, we are doomed and we will muck along with Mr. mediocre.

Calm down Spider I am not looking at Eastman's record, but rather the success he had in the NBA as an assistant coach with Doc Rivers at both Boston and LA. That has to count for something. If you are just looking at record - then KA is out of the picture I guess, he is 48-116 in 2 years in the NBA and that record is not getting much better this year. And I never said Pat Belien sucks, but rather I think we as a program are beyond hiring a DII coach who has had success simply because of his last name. I mean if that is the case - we should look at any DII, DIII and NAIA school coaches that have had recent success. I think being in the A10, and paying the money we now offer with the facilities we have in place - we should be able to find a good P6 assistant or an up and coming young coach from the true mid-major ranks, not the DII or DIII ranks.

But truth be told - I think Mooney does just enough this year - wins about 16-17 games, where this next coach discussion is pointless. He wins 16-17 games - the administration will say thats improvement/young team and keep him on. And they will be forced to extend his contract another season for recruiting purposes.

 

[spider23]

Ugh, that is my greatest fear trap. We keep keeping on with mediocrity.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Ugh, that is my greatest fear trap. We keep keeping on with mediocrity.

Same here Spider, but with the schedule we have and fact that Mooney always finds a way to be in the middle of the A10 - I think we win 7-8 games OOC, and then win about 8-9 in A10 play. . Puts us right in that dreaded middle ground. Plus with such a young team - I think admin plays it safe and keeps him and then must extend for recruiting purposes. Only way I see that not happening is if the new AD has it in his mind he wants Nathan Davis from his former school and sees this as the time to get him before someone else does.

 

[spider23]

Well, I do like Nathan Davis' resume. If that is our trump card to make a change, I am on board. But yes, I think we will be just good enough to keep Mooney employed - that I do fear. I will let you back on the search committee.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Thank you Spider for allowing me back on the search committee. Realistically - I think our options at this moment are Nathan Davis, Mike Jones (Radford - assuming they do well again this year), Becker from Vermont has put together an impressive resume up there last few years. I like Buffalo and Coach Oats, but if he keeps them on the cusp of the top 25 I think a lower level P5 school picks him up and outbids us. I would like for us to look for guys who have been to the tourney, but have also shown some consistent success Making 1 good run in the tourney is not what we should be looking for.

But as mentioned earlier - this might be pointless, since I really think we win enough to keep Mooney hanging around.

 

[64Spider]

Well if we are stuck with Mooney maybe at least Hardt demands some assistant that knows something other than Mooney ball.

 

[Eight Legger]

NCAA or bust. If Hardt keeps Mooney around short of a tourney berth, he is just another Gill to me.

 

[nathanw19]

NCAA or bust. If Hardt keeps Mooney around short of a tourney berth, he is just another Gill to me.

My question to you would be who could take this squad, as currently compromised, to the NCAA tourney this year? I unfortunately don’t believe we have that squad this year, barring improvements from the big 3/serious freshmen contributions.

I hope I’m wrong and I reserve the right to change my opinion after watching the full OOC, but I’m not sure we have the talent/experience for anyone to bring us to the tourney this year.

 

[whampas]

My question to you would be who could take this squad, as currently compromised, to the NCAA tourney this year? I unfortunately don’t believe we have that squad this year, barring improvements from the big 3/serious freshmen contributions.

I hope I’m wrong and I reserve the right to change my opinion after watching the full OOC, but I’m not sure we have the talent/experience for anyone to bring us to the tourney this year.

And therein lies the problem.

 

[nathanw19]

And therein lies the problem.

Agreed. My point is that demanding NCAA or bust is essentially the same as asking for a miracle or bust. And if that is your standard for thinking Hardt is another Gill, then you’re already resigned to thinking he’s another Gill.

I think it’s a different argument to say that Mooney should be gone based on what he’s done previously and where this team was coming into the season. But i think it’s too tough on Hardt to say that he has to pull the trigger on Mooney (assuming the team improves but doesn’t make the NCAA) when essentially no coach could make the NCAA with this squad (and again, I hope I’m wrong on this not being a NCAA level squad).

My only caveat would be if you believe that at the end of the season the squad doesn’t look like it is making progress towards making he NCAA.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Agreed - this squad does not have the talent and depth to be an NCAA team and I don't think any coach could change that. But the fact remains - the coach is responsible for recruiting, and these days that is more important than coaching x's and o's. Cause you have the talent ,they can make up for your coaching weaknesses. But it is has become harder and harder for coaching schemes and systems to make up for lack of talent. Sure - you might cause an upset or two, but in the end, the teams with the best players ultimately win out.

 

[spider23]

The problem I am seeing is that we keep giving more rope. As noted before, we keep kicking the can forward. So if we win 17-18 games but don't sniff NIT, that is progress and he gets next year. Then this offseason Gilyard or Golden transfers, and they say, see if he only had that guy we would have surely been an NCAA team . Like posters say on here, if only Ced did not get hurt. BTW - he played Ced so many minutes with a capable SDJ sitting. the game I went to at Fordham that year, it was apparent he was hurting. SDJ filled in great, and Mooney had to send Ced back in limping. And then if we only could have got JJ Avilla through admissions, that was a sure fire NCAA team. Etc Etc.
There is always an excuse why next year is the year. Now 4700 and crew explain away last year becuase according to him Fore and Buck didn't fit. Who recruited those guys. Must have been Brunt from Miami. I think 2027 is Moon's year.

 

[Eight Legger]

Agreed. My point is that demanding NCAA or bust is essentially the same as asking for a miracle or bust. And if that is your standard for thinking Hardt is another Gill, then you’re already resigned to thinking he’s another Gill.

I think it’s a different argument to say that Mooney should be gone based on what he’s done previously and where this team was coming into the season. But i think it’s too tough on Hardt to say that he has to pull the trigger on Mooney (assuming the team improves but doesn’t make the NCAA) when essentially no coach could make the NCAA with this squad (and again, I hope I’m wrong on this not being a NCAA level squad).

My only caveat would be if you believe that at the end of the season the squad doesn’t look like it is making progress towards making he NCAA.

It's no one's fault but Mooney's that in Year 14, following seven straight years without a tourney berth, we are in a position where we have no realistic chance at the tourney. Again.

It's being generous to Mooney to give him an eighth try. Most coaches at this level would have been fired three years ago. I don't care how great the odds are: Get it done or you're gone. Period.

 

[nathanw19]

It's no one's fault but Mooney's that in Year 14, following seven straight years without a tourney berth, we are in a position where we have no realistic chance at the tourney. Again.

It's being generous to Mooney to give him an eighth try. Most coaches at this level would have been fired three years ago. I don't care how great the odds are: Get it done or you're gone. Period.

I agree that it’s no one’s fault but Mooney’s the program is in the position it’s in. His recruits, 100% agree. And if you want to fire him over that, I’m ok with that, I see your point.

Where I was disagreeing is basing the firing on this year’s performance (I.e. NCAA or bust). I don’t think it’s reasonable to expect this squad (at least how I view them at the moment), to make the NCAA this year, no matter who is the coach.

Which is what led to my defense of Hardt as not being a Gill. If he didn’t fire Mooney before the season, then he doesn’t view the sins of the past the same as you. If he did, I would think he would’ve made the change last season. I would imagine he will be judging Mooney on the progress the team makes this year. And expecting the NCAA based on the current state of the squad at the beginning of the season would be an unreasonable standard.

And yes, I realize I am splitting up the expectations for a 14 year direction of the program vs. the current team’s expectations.