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Nathan Davis

97spiderfan

97spiderfan

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Feb 2, 2005
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Ok, so lets be real. Hardt hired this guy at Bucknell, Hardt is now here, our program is a significant step up from Bucknell, Davis coached at Randy Mac and has connections to the area. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to think this guy might be on our short list of new coaching candidates.

I was trying to evaluate talent. He has only been there for 2 years, so the Juniors and Seniors are not his guys. Overall, I thought Bucknell was equal in talent to us but was deeper. How much of this was Paulson and how much was Davis though I'm not sure.

Coaching ability: Pretty nice job with his halftime adjustments. We were working them in the first half on back door cuts and they completely shut that down in the second half. Also seemed to find a lot of mismatches in the second half. Bucknell seems to like to crash the boards, that was a sight for sore eyes.

Sat next to a group of Bucknell fans last night, they all spoke very highly of Davis. FWIW. In his 2 years at Bucknell, Bucknell has won the regular season both years and went to the NCAA once and the NIT once. Davis one coach of the year both years in the Patriot League.

My take: There is a lot to like about this guy. He should be on our short list. What do others think?
 
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No thanks. Need to see what he does with his own recruits and we can't wait for that. Don't forget, everybody looks like a good coach against us.
 
I'm definitely in favor of giving this guy a long look. Yes, only two years as a D1 head coach - COY in conference with another coaches players, but still successful. Love his resume at RMC - what an excellent 6 year run. Wow. When you look at a lot of the guys we have mentioned, there is typically ups and downs in the resume that make you say hmmmmm. He went to the NCAA at RMC 6 years in a row, with some deep runs. I like guys that have had success as a HC at multiple levels. Only thing we don't know, can he recruit at this level. Good sign his recruiting must have been good at RMC, to sustain that level without scholarships.
 
You know I think I would have to see what he does with 3-4 years of coaching where he has all his recruits the last two years so to
speak. But his bench did score 24 points more than our bench. They played aggressive on defense and offense, but his offense is
only good as his 3 point shooters allow. His team was organized and played tough defense but against a more athletic, rebounding
team they would have had troubles. Give him credit for playing an up tempo game.
 
I think writing off the first two years of a coach's tenure at a school is a good rule of thumb. It can give a very false impression if they have to rebuild (Schmidt's first 2 years at SBU he was 23-37), or if they inherit a good team (Crews taking over for Majerus at SLU).
 
So, by the time we're looking for a new coach, Davis will have six seasons under his belt at Bucknell. Sounds good.
 
We could do worse, but it probably won't happen because I don't think Hardt would blatantly bring his coach with him. In most cases, I don't think a new AD brings his coach in general, for whatever reason.

But the local connections sure make it interesting.
 
While I understand the trepidation over taking a guy playing mostly with someone else's recruits, I am not sure how we really figure we will have options that are clearly better because they are absent such questions. If we take a guy who is from a lower (than say Bucknell) level program and we can see a 4-5 year history, we'll likely balk about the level it was achieved at and want to see someone that's done it at a higher level. And if you don't think you would say that, then Davis should be ok - - you saw that at RMC and 2 years of good coaching at Bucknell to boot. And if you want a Power 5 assistant, that even more doing it with someone elses players so how do you know how good he is?

Bottom line is that we won't be in a position to hire a coach that can affirmatively check every box we might like to see checked. A guy like Davis at a school like Bucknell with history like his at RMC and who has 2-3 more years at said Bucknell-like school and is going to the NCAA with his own players isn't going to be an option for us because that guy will have better options! Once that guy hits all those boxes, he's off our landscape.

On at least a few things we are going to have to determine that we (the group doing the hire) think he can in fact do certain things and trust that judgement and make the hire and then hope and pray after that that we got it right!

Not saying I want to hire this guy cause I know nothing about him really, only that as we consider anyone, we have to be realistic that we aren't going to get a guy who has everything under the sun we might like to see.

And this quote from the original post "our program is a significant step up from Bucknell" is really scary to me. Everything over the past 5 years minimum would suggest they are flat out a better program than us. Yeah, we are in the A-10 and they are in The Patriot, but what about what we have done over the last 5 years makes us better that we can actually think that we are a "significant step up". Hell, they are arguably even better than us academically. Certainly they have owned us on the court; their coach got a better job, our coach is going to get fired etc. A case can be made that ours is the better job (and Hardt's choice certainly validates that) but a pretty good case can be made that the guy would be better off staying at Bucknell and thinking we are clearly a "significant" step up in basketball is pretty bold. We shouldn't be as delusional about the status of our program as we were about the status of this season before it got played!
 
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spiderwriter said:
It makes too much sense to hire him, so it probably won't happen.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. At minimum, it's a bad look for Hardt to not conduct a real search ... and also a bad look to poach his former employer.

I don't see this happening.
 
A lot of guys on here seem to discount his record at RMC, I wish we could put Mooney at RMC for 6 years and see how many NCAA's he would rack up. Would love to hear Ulla's thoughts on why he hopes not and let's look at resumes for his top 5 replacement choices??

Hey, no one besides me said boo when my coach Rhoades (bleed black and gold) poached his best player on the way out the door and $hit trashed his program at Rice. I feel that is more egregious than Hardt snagging Davis, I mean Davis is a grown man with a contract, and probably thinks going to the A10 is a logical step to go P6 (if that is his end game).

I think he should be considered, but yes may be scared of the optics.

I really think the p6 assistant with no head coaching experience is the biggest risk out there. No idea how a guy will do when he has to move that foot down the bench. I would still like JB's son and his head coaching experience over a never head coach assistant. While I see Philly's point about our programs, still think UR and A10 is inviting, if a coach can get some gurantees on the admissions issue.
 
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Any idea what Davis’ salary is? I couldn’t find it on the Googler
 
Hard to tell with Bucknell. The Patriot League is really a story of the haves vs the have nots. Bucknell has better facilities and puts more money into basketball than any other team in their league. They should win it every year if you just judge it on the school’s commitment compared to others like Lafayette and Colgate. It also doesn’t hurt that the previous coach found an nba player which helped them achieve perennial NCAA tournament contender status.
 
MolivaManiac said:
I don't know but would guess he's in the 400-500k range and we could get him at 40% less than CM.
Click to expand...



Davis is nowhere close to that. Paulsen was only at a base of $300k (plus benefits and pension contribution) when he left. Davis has a base that is less than that, maybe $250K. Don't know if he would leave Bucknell at this point, but if he did his salary would have to at least double. He is very happy where he is.
 
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PASpider said:
Hard to tell with Bucknell. The Patriot League is really a story of the haves vs the have nots. Bucknell has better facilities and puts more money into basketball than any other team in their league. They should win it every year if you just judge it on the school’s commitment compared to others like Lafayette and Colgate.
Click to expand...


Bucknell on average spends significantly less money on basketball than Holy Cross and about the same as Boston U. It does spend more than the rest of the PL however - although Navy would be spending far more if you added in the implied value of a free ride. DeChellis is by far the highest paid coach in the PL, and Navy has very good facilities. They also bring in six recruits per year.
 
Bison137 said:
Bucknell on average spends significantly less money on basketball than Holy Cross and about the same as Boston U. It does spend more than the rest of the PL however - although Navy would be spending far more if you added in the implied value of a free ride. DeChellis is by far the highest paid coach in the PL, and Navy has very good facilities. They also bring in six recruits per year.
Click to expand...
Bucknell’s arena was built in 2003, Holy Cross’ was built in 1975. Those have to figure into calculations too.
 
wr70beh said:
Don’t look now, but Holy Cross is spending money on “facilities”. There’s a “commitment” there:

https://www.holycross.edu/becomemor...3662.926237716.1513863534-44691648.1513863534
Click to expand...

From the video "We are ready to play and we are determined to win. We are intent on being champions once again"

This is coming from a school with the same enrollment figures, playing in a lesser conference, and has a fraction of the resources we have. They are building a $32 million facility.
 
spiderstudent17 said:
From the video "We are ready to play and we are determined to win. We are intent on being champions once again"

This is coming from a school with the same enrollment figures, playing in a lesser conference, and has a fraction of the resources we have. They are building a $32 million facility.
Click to expand...

A 32 million dollar facility...Holy Cross!
 
It’s actually a $95 million facility. The $32.5 million is just the lead gift.
 
Bison137 said:
Davis is nowhere close to that. Paulsen was only at a base of $300k (plus benefits and pension contribution) when he left. Davis has a base that is less than that, maybe $250K. Don't know if he would leave Bucknell at this point, but if he did his salary would have to at least double. He is very happy where he is.
Click to expand...

Would he be interested in a salary of roughly: 1 MILLION DOLLARS?
 
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PASpider said:
Bucknell’s arena was built in 2003, Holy Cross’ was built in 1975. Those have to figure into calculations too.
Click to expand...


True - but Holy Cross's place just had a massive renovation last year (new seats, new floor, new scoreboard, etc) that also included a new practice gym (something Bucknell does not have), new locker rooms, new lobby, etc. They spent a total of $90+ Million on various athletic improvements.
 
97spiderfan said:
Ok, so lets be real. Hardt hired this guy at Bucknell, Hardt is now here, our program is a significant step up from Bucknell, Davis coached at Randy Mac and has connections to the area. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to think this guy might be on our short list of new coaching candidates.

I was trying to evaluate talent. He has only been there for 2 years, so the Juniors and Seniors are not his guys. Overall, I thought Bucknell was equal in talent to us but was deeper. How much of this was Paulson and how much was Davis though I'm not sure.

Coaching ability: Pretty nice job with his halftime adjustments. We were working them in the first half on back door cuts and they completely shut that down in the second half. Also seemed to find a lot of mismatches in the second half. Bucknell seems to like to crash the boards, that was a sight for sore eyes.

Sat next to a group of Bucknell fans last night, they all spoke very highly of Davis. FWIW. In his 2 years at Bucknell, Bucknell has won the regular season both years and went to the NCAA once and the NIT once. Davis one coach of the year both years in the Patriot League.

My take: There is a lot to like about this guy. He should be on our short list. What do others think?
Click to expand...
I have no position on Davis, I have never watched him coach a game or run a program.

I would offer caution on his W-L record. Randolph Macon has been an absolute power of small college basketball for many years. The winning tradition is established beyond doubt, therefore many of the best players want to play there. Davis may be fabulous, but I think that you would have to be pretty awful to mess up the powerhouse at Macon. Paulsen built a NCAA strong program at Bucknell. Again, Davis may be fabulous, but judging him with Paulson's players is dangerous.

Any Coach who might be under consideration at UR should be assessed by a team of experts that actually understands the finer points of the game. To explain, it is glaringly obvious by watching Mooney coach a game that he does not have the skill necessary to consistently succeed at a high level. Some recognized this sooner than others, but I know for a fact that some observed the same flaws that we see in Mooney today during season #1.

The flip side to my point are coaches like John Beilein, Tony Bennent, and others who are obviously the real deal the first time you watch them and their team. Whomever gets consideration as UR's new Coach should be evaluated by experts who actually watch them perform. The opinion of casual fans is something to consider, but the uninformed should not be making this decision based upon how pretty the box and the bow look.

When it comes to coaching, demonstrated skill is far more important than the packaging.
 
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Not-A-Homer said:
I have no position on Davis, I have never watched him coach a game or run a program.

I would offer caution on his W-L record. Randolph Macon has been an absolute power of small college basketball for many years. The winning tradition is established beyond doubt, therefore many of the best players want to play there. Davis may be fabulous, but I think that you would have to be pretty awful to mess up the powerhouse at Macon. Paulsen built a NCAA strong program at Bucknell. Again, Davis may be fabulous, but judging him with Paulson's players is dangerous.
.
Click to expand...


Your point is correct. Just to clarify, Paulsen actually inherited a great program that Pat Flannery had built. Flannery's best teams were better than Paulsen's best teams, and unlike Paulsen's teams, they had NCAA success.
 
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Bison137 said:
Your point is correct. Just to clarify, Paulsen actually inherited a great program that Pat Flannery had built. Flannery's best teams were better than Paulsen's best teams, and unlike Paulsen's teams, they had NCAA success.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the education, I learned something new.
 
I am hopeful that our new AD reads this board (very likely) and that he is open to the possibility of hiring one of his past successful hires (like Davis).

There are probably dozens of cases where an AD goes back and hires one of his former hires from his former school. And, there is nothing ethically wrong with doing this. It is often the right thing to do and a "win" for both schools (and the coach), in the end.

The best recent example that comes directly to mind for me, is Scott Stricklin (the former AD at Miss. State, who is now at Florida). After roughly one year (and seeing his Florida football totally crash and burn, he hired the best college coach he knew really well (Dan Mullen) from Miss. State) to now become Florida's football coach. When a guy has worked for you for 2-5 years, you know him really well, including his strengths and all of his "warts." Hardt likely knows Davis really well, and if Davis is as good as advertised, he could be the perfect signature "win" for our new AD.

So, if Davis is the "real-deal" and would accept the job, I am hoping that Hardt does not hold back in considering him as UR's next head basketball coach. I feel we have better talent than Bucknell, and would welcome a head coach who makes the best use of that talent. I have been a Mooney supporter up until this season, but cannot continue to watch games like the ones we have been seeing. Enough is enough. I would also hope Hardt might consider identifying one current assistant here (Jenkins?) who would add value and maintain some of the player relationships and "family atmosphere" that have been pluses for us. No need to throw out the baby with the bathwater, but if Davis is really good, let's get this done....
 
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