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Mooney Ranking - The Athletic

Bigger schools in name, that's one thing. No one is expecting us to beat Duke or UNC for recruits. But I'm talking about the notion that we can't compete because we only have 3k students. Sure, some kids want to go to a school with 40,000 students, but generally speaking, the size of our student body should not be a hindrance to athletic success.
 
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I’m really tired of the whining that this site continues to generate. For what purpose ? To make you feel
better, or make the athletes that work so hard feel bad?
The next time maybe you should think of someone but yourself.
 
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To say “Sad, but true. So disappointed that our school is not committed to being the best they can be in all school pursuits. See it as a black eye for UR.” has to be fake.
Everything gets covered with one umbrella - basketball. Let’’s ask FCS football how Richmond got so far in the
playoffs last year. Tell Chemotti to quit going to NCAA playoffs. Tell Mooney to give back out A-10 Trophy and victory
over Iowa .
And be sure to tell our new baseball coach that is was hired to just keep us loosing.
.
some of you should have gone to Michigan or Ohio State.
dude is getting paid millions to underperform (the other program's coaches don't make anywhere near what Mooney makes so thats why I single him out). In the last 12 years Mooney has only finished above the preseason projections twice! He's underperformed for 10 plus years now and making millions while doing it but you choose to protect him because he made the tourney two seasons ago? You going to ignore the 2012-2021 era? 3 magical seasons don't make up for 16 years of mid play.
 
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I’m really tired of the whining that this site continues to generate. For what purpose ? To make you feel
better, or make the athletes that work so hard feel bad?
The next time maybe you should think of someone but yourself.
maybe if your savior actually performed we wouldn't have this issue
 
Bigger schools in name, that's one thing. No one is expecting us to beat Duke or UNC for recruits. But I'm taking about the notion that we can't compete because we only have 3k students. Sure, some kids want to go to a school with 40,000 students, but generally speaking, the size of our student body should not be a hindrance to athletic success.
we can certainly compete. and we can be better. but if size wasn't a hinderance, why aren't there more 3,000 undergrad non-P6 schools regularly dancing?
 
we can certainly compete. and we can be better. but if size wasn't a hinderance, why aren't there more 3,000 undergrad non-P6 schools regularly dancing?
Because most of them that play D1 are playing in much lower-level leagues than we are and have much lower budgets than we do. If we were in the OVC or SWAC or something, I'd get it. But we're in an upper-level league (even though it's down lately) and spending more money than most comparably-sized D1 schools.

Most small D1 schools aren't regular tourney participants for those reasons -- not because they are small.
 
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Because most of them that play D1 are playing in much lower-level leagues than we are and have much lower budgets than we do. If we were in the OVC or SWAC or something, I'd get it. But we're in an upper-level league (even though it's down lately) and spending more money than most comparably-sized D1 schools.

Most small D1 schools aren't regular tourney participants for those reasons -- not because they are small.
maybe it's for those reasons AND because they're small. I don't know how you can say for certain that size is no factor.
 
I honestly think our size is a strength not a weakness in recruiting. Not every kid is gonna want to go to a school with 10, 20, 30 thousand plus kids. Some kids are gonna want the smaller more intimate feel that we offer.

And in that size parameter, we also offer excellent academic and academic reputation, a beautiful campus, top notch basketball facilities, and most of the smaller D-1 schools play in lesser conferences than we do.

I think we should be even more competitive for certain kids than say VCU is because VCU is a big school so if you are getting recruited by bigger BCS schools than why would you choose VCU over a similarly sized school. VCU also academically profiles similarly with a lot of the bigger BCS schools. The answer to me as to why kids choose VCU comes down to their culture and their recent and sustained success on the court.
 
maybe it's for those reasons AND because they're small. I don't know how you can say for certain that size is no factor.
Many things could be factors, I just don't think that student body size in and of itself is a great barometer for basketball success. Better ones are conference affiliation and budget. It is true that we are more than exception than the norm among 3k-population universities in D1, I grant you that. But that doesn't mean that we should use it as an excuse.

We're in a historically strong D1 basketball league, and we spend a lot of money. Those two factors alone separate us from most schools our size. At this point, what additional advantage would we have if we had 10k or 50k students instead of 3k but everything else remained the same? Unless it would suddenly land us some top-100 recruits who primarily care about student population, I'd say none.
 
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I honestly think our size is a strength not a weakness in recruiting. Not every kid is gonna want to go to a school with 10, 20, 30 thousand plus kids. Some kids are gonna want the smaller more intimate feel that we offer.
a ton of kids definitely prefer a smaller school.
I just don't think many highly recruited basketball players do. maybe I'm just projecting what I would want if I was a highly recruited player.
 
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a ton of kids definitely prefer a smaller school.
I just don't think many highly recruited basketball players do. maybe I'm just projecting what I would want if I was a highly recruited player.
No, they do want a smaller enrollment. But they want 30,000 twenty year olds in the stands…
 
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We're in a historically strong D1 basketball league, and we spend a lot of money. Those two factors alone separate us from most schools our size. At this point, what additional advantage would we have if we had 10k or 50k students instead of 3k but everything else remained the same? Unless it would suddenly land us some top-100 recruits who primarily care about student population, I'd say none.

That conf history is also based on a lot of schools that r no longer in the conference. The A10 conf ranking has been going down.

If we were 50k we’d be in ACC. No point to think of 10k or 50. But I did think 5k was very reasonable if UR wanted it. Wish we had. Would our odds for success increase if we were larger? To me unequivocally yes. That success is not guaranteed but it becomes a little easier. I think most would answer yes if gets easier. If not I’d like to hear why. Check out ncaa tourney thread article Butler was saying size disadvantage too. Even if just 5k that means more eyeballs more rabid home crowd more donors etc.

No excuse it’s our choice but I’m willing to admit the disadvantages. Every place got some. Winnipeg has more disadvantages in nhl than others. Our advantages r good school good facilities pretty good history seem to spend well enough on hoops. Size big drawback. Not for general student but for recruiting in big sports yes.

Again we can do it & we have reasons we can do it, but size ain’t one imo.
 
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I think Size has little to nothing to do with it. Now - if your saying our size limits is up in filling up the Robins Center every game with rowdy fans and students, then I would agree. But the City of Richmond has a population of over 225K people. Include surrounding areas - you have more than enough opportunity, along with the students - to fill the arena. That is what kids want when it comes to size. I could see if we had a small, HS like gym and couldn't fill it up. But we have one of the nicest arenas in our league. It just went through a 17 million dollar renovation - seats 7,200 people. If we were getting 7,200 people every game, and were finishing in the top 4 of the league on a consistent basis - size goes out the window. I think recruits who use size as an excuse to not come to Richmond, really had other reasons they didn't like us - and are just trying to be nice. its like telling the not so attractive girl in your class you don't like her personality.

Our recorded attendance last year was about 6,285 a game. But everyone knows - that is inflated (not picking on UR - I think every school does it). Our attendance was probably more near 5,800 if I had to estimate. Not bad - but what really hurts us is the game experience. We get ZERO student support. And in my opinion - that makes or breaks an arena in college sports. You look at the rankings of all the best arenas and stadiums in college - they all have one thing in common - STUDENT SUPPORT. Cameron Crazies, VA Tech jumping for Enter Sandman, etc etc.

So I don't think size really matters. And as mentioned before - it could be used to our advantage. BUT - I think that only works IF we are winning and filling up the seats. Because then you could tell a kid. Don't go to Virginia Tech with over 35K kids. You will be lost in there. Not to mention, you will be second fiddle to Football. Come to UR - where you will get a very personal education with smaller classes, and with a small student body that SUPPORTS athletics with our 7,000+ attendance - you will be the big man on campus. BUT again - you can only sell that - IF we are winning (which is on and off) AND filling the seats (which we don't do a lot of).
 
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Our recorded attendance last year was about 6,285 a game. But everyone knows - that is inflated (not picking on UR - I think every school does it). Our attendance was probably more near 5,800 if I had to estimate. Not bad - but what really hurts us is the game experience. We get ZERO student support. And in my opinion - that makes or breaks an arena in college sports. You look at the rankings of all the best arenas and stadiums in college - they all have one thing in common - STUDENT SUPPORT. Cameron Crazies, VA Tech jumping for Enter Sandman, etc etc.
I agree that the lack of student support is disappointing, BUT I think that is directly related to (a) not winning enough/consistently and (b) not having any marquee games. In addition, I think the fact of the matter is that more and more students do not care about sports.

I actually think that UR’s in game experience is close to top tier. The Robins Center isn’t sold out every game, but it is close to 80% full most of the time which is leaps and bounds better than most colleges in mid-major leagues. The RC is a right-sized on-campus venue that has a much better atmosphere than the large NBA type facilities that many P6 schools play at least some of their games in. Last, a student section is a catalyst but that is always a small percentage of total fans, so you have to have an enthusiastic crowd. The problem at the RC is that the crowd is aging out. The red sweater crowd are very loyal fans, but they aren’t energetic and loud. The “new generation” of fans is nowhere to be seen.

There is no doubt that the RC is a nicer facility than any of the other college venues that I have been to. If they could amp up the concessions and fix the audio/video issues that always seem to occur, it would be premium.

Small tweaks and the in-game experience is top shelf. Overcoming student apathy and appealing to a younger demographic is a tougher challenge.
 
I agree that the lack of student support is disappointing, BUT I think that is directly related to (a) not winning enough/consistently and (b) not having any marquee games.
yeah, tough to get students excited about out of conference games when our best home game might be Queens (NC). not a lot of marquis names in conference anymore either ... outside of VCU.
 
Just note unless something dramatic happens this year, I don't think he'll be on the ranking next year as the team has to be in an NCAA tourney within the last 3 seasons I believe...
 
I agree that the lack of student support is disappointing, BUT I think that is directly related to (a) not winning enough/consistently and (b) not having any marquee games. In addition, I think the fact of the matter is that more and more students do not care about sports.

I actually think that UR’s in game experience is close to top tier. The Robins Center isn’t sold out every game, but it is close to 80% full most of the time which is leaps and bounds better than most colleges in mid-major leagues. The RC is a right-sized on-campus venue that has a much better atmosphere than the large NBA type facilities that many P6 schools play at least some of their games in. Last, a student section is a catalyst but that is always a small percentage of total fans, so you have to have an enthusiastic crowd. The problem at the RC is that the crowd is aging out. The red sweater crowd are very loyal fans, but they aren’t energetic and loud. The “new generation” of fans is nowhere to be seen.

There is no doubt that the RC is a nicer facility than any of the other college venues that I have been to. If they could amp up the concessions and fix the audio/video issues that always seem to occur, it would be premium.

Small tweaks and the in-game experience is top shelf. Overcoming student apathy and appealing to a younger demographic is a tougher challenge.
I agree winning and better games would help. Our atmosphere in the Robins Center is GOOD, but I don't think it rivals NBA arena atmospheres or some other colleges. I have been to plenty of college games where the arena is not as nice as the Robins Center, but the atmosphere is much better elsewhere. Case in point - VCU. I think our Arena is much nicer and pleasing than the Siegel Center. But their gameday with band, fans, and student section - kicks out butt. No doubt about it.

Dayton is pretty similar. They have a nice arena. pretty close to ours in terms of just facilities - but their gameday atmosphere is much louder and exciting than the Robins Center.

St. Joes is a good example of what you mentioned with winning. I went to a game up there when they had that really good undefeated team with Jameer Nelson and were nationally ranked. Just felt like it was time to make a trip up there and see them in their place for my own eyes. And the gym was very HS look. But the energy and student section at the time was unmatched. Now - they have fallen off, and so has the atmosphere. Similar to us. We just have a nicer arena at this point.

To your point - it starts with winning, and being consistent winning. Cause when that happens - you can get good games at home. When your up and down like we are. Your not going to get those games.
 
Trap, saw Jameer at St Joes too. nobody was going to that place for the facilities! but what an atmosphere!
being nationally ranked will do that. it isn't about big screens and sound systems.
 
Trap, saw Jameer at St Joes too. nobody was going to that place for the facilities! but what an atmosphere!
being nationally ranked will do that. it isn't about big screens and sound systems.
Agreed.

Facilities are nice and will get through a year or two of being down, when its brand new. But ultimately - you gotta win, and win consistently. If your always up and down - like us. Fans and students will not show up till the end of the year when they look around and go - "hey, our team is pretty good - lets check out a game". As opposed when the EXPECTATION is your always good - they always show up.

I like the updates St. Joes have made. Still feels like a very good HS gym. But - winning will cure it and they should be better this year. It will be interesting to see where they end up.
 
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Is there any reason Richmond cannot start its own pep band made up of scholarship music students? That is a start to getting students involved and adds to atmosphere. And removes the nonstop jokes when the UR rental band gets shown on TV.

Fordham was able to change its atmosphere overnight vis a vis students. It’s possible. Just commit to it and make it a thing.

Hardt likely knows nothing about this. He’ll have to take a tour of VCU student section.
 
Trap pretty much everything u wrote related to size. Yes our student support save for couple games is poor. Guess what would help…more students to pull from. The city of Richmond population does little. While we do pretty good job w crowds at RC we r tapped out mostly. If larger school less of a concern. It’s been same for like 30 years. We went to ncaa back to back it was same thing. VCU probably has less interest in bball percentage wise from students than us. That could be 10% and it equals our entire student base. Duke is Duke but I don’t think they become what they r if a 2k school or whatever size u thought they were. We’d have a band if we had more students. U could give away 10k free tickets to a Richmond football game & it wouldn’t be full. Not enough connections to school. That’s size related. Sure if we won at an elite clip over long period that might do it. Good luck w that. That seems to be our only avenue. Other schools can manage better due to larger built in customer base.
 
U could give away 10k free tickets to a Richmond football game & it wouldn’t be full. Not enough connections to school.

Believe FB marketing is a component too. Most of our 1.27 million fellow Richmond metropolitan area residents scarcely know anything about our football team or any other team for that matter.

Most would be shocked that we play at a level where we send multiple more athletes to the NFL than the NBA.

Got the product. Sell it. In FB, most years you'll see folks that will be playing on Sundays.

Probably wrong board, but responding to FB comment quoted.
 
Trap pretty much everything u wrote related to size. Yes our student support save for couple games is poor. Guess what would help…more students to pull from. The city of Richmond population does little. While we do pretty good job w crowds at RC we r tapped out mostly. If larger school less of a concern. It’s been same for like 30 years. We went to ncaa back to back it was same thing. VCU probably has less interest in bball percentage wise from students than us. That could be 10% and it equals our entire student base. Duke is Duke but I don’t think they become what they r if a 2k school or whatever size u thought they were. We’d have a band if we had more students. U could give away 10k free tickets to a Richmond football game & it wouldn’t be full. Not enough connections to school. That’s size related. Sure if we won at an elite clip over long period that might do it. Good luck w that. That seems to be our only avenue. Other schools can manage better due to larger built in customer base.
I agree to disagree. I have to local HS in the Richmond area with less students than UR and they draw more students who are louder and more into the game than our kids. We have about 3,100 undergrad students. Your telling me we can't get 300-400 kids to show up every game and be excited? Really? On a college campus where all they got to do is walk to the game and get in for FREE. Not to mention - we have fraternities right across the street from the arena - they can't get their people to go to the game, then walk over to the ROW after to begin the parties? Really. Walk through the library one night 30-60 minutes before a game, there are more kids in the library than the Robins Center. And this is not a joke - I did it for one game last year just to be curious.

Why don't they come out? Who knows. Winning would certainly help. NCAA appearances would help. Better home games would help. A band would help. Maybe some crazy student giveaways - since we are apparently loaded with money. Why not have a half court shot at some games for a semester tuition payment? And it wasn't always like this. Remember when we first entered the A10 and David West almost went into the stands to fight a student - I was at that game, and there was a good amount of students present, not just the 20-40 we get now. So its possible.
 
some time ago had a friend who set up a putting contest for a large money prize at a charity event, don't recall the amount. had strict rules to follow, but he had purchased an insurance policy that would pay the award, told me it cost him $100
 
here it is:

Prize indemnity insurance protects a business, nonprofit organization, or sponsor of a promotional event or contest that offers an expensive prize no one is guaranteed to win. If someone does win, the prize indemnity insurance covers the cost of the prize awarded. The typical premium for prize indemnity insurance is 3 to 15 percent of the prize value.

Not much of a risk on a half court shot, or similar.
 
I think the support from the student section for basketball games has been very solid the past few years. Football is a lost cause student attendance wise
 
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Believe FB marketing is a component too. Most of our 1.27 million fellow Richmond metropolitan area residents scarcely know anything about our football team or any other team for that matter.

Most would be shocked that we play at a level where we send multiple more athletes to the NFL than the NBA.

Got the product. Sell it. In FB, most years you'll see folks that will be playing on Sundays.

Probably wrong board, but responding to FB comment quoted.

It wasn’t a shot at the quality of FCS football. I think it’s underrated. U right we send more to pros w football. I’m fan of UR football too. Can’t prove my statement but think it’s true. We’ve had 40 years of marketing and nobody can get it right.
 
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I agree to disagree. I have to local HS in the Richmond area with less students than UR and they draw more students who are louder and more into the game than our kids. We have about 3,100 undergrad students. Your telling me we can't get 300-400 kids to show up every game and be excited? Really? On a college campus where all they got to do is walk to the game and get in for FREE. Not to mention - we have fraternities right across the street from the arena - they can't get their people to go to the game, then walk over to the ROW after to begin the parties? Really. Walk through the library one night 30-60 minutes before a game, there are more kids in the library than the Robins Center. And this is not a joke - I did it for one game last year just to be curious.

Why don't they come out? Who knows. Winning would certainly help. NCAA appearances would help. Better home games would help. A band would help. Maybe some crazy student giveaways - since we are apparently loaded with money. Why not have a half court shot at some games for a semester tuition payment? And it wasn't always like this. Remember when we first entered the A10 and David West almost went into the stands to fight a student - I was at that game, and there was a good amount of students present, not just the 20-40 we get now. So its possible.

I was at that X game too. It was a big game. We still get a couple of those games w students now. Back then we also got games w 40 students. Basically the same. I’ve never said we shouldn’t get 3-4 hundred students regularly I wish we did. We should continue to try. & I was in a fraternity. I never once remembered going to our lodge pregame or postgame for a party around a game. If we could have we would have. UR has always limited time at the Row i don’t agree with it but that’s nothing new.

All I’m saying is it’s a lot easier if we were bigger just like anywhere else. I don’t think that’s a controversial take but yes we can agree to disagree.
 
Not much of a risk on a half court shot, or similar.
tell that to Jackie Moon.

C7zL_GLWsAEF5C7
 
I think the support from the student section for basketball games has been very solid the past few years. Football is a lost cause student attendance wise
When I went to UR (mid 90's) going to a football game seemed almost a mandatory experience and that was when we played at City stadium off campus. Lot's of pregaming, might only stay till halftime because of said pregaming but I recall a lot of students going. And our football team sucked in the mid 90's.

Don't know why students wouldn't go in more mass now that we have a beautiful on campus stadium, other than we lost traditions and kids would rather be addicted to their phones now than actually live life.
 
I went to a pregame happy hour on the row exactly once that I can remember, believe it was a Friday night game vs JMU in 1993 or 1994. RC was packed. Kent Culuko went nuts and we lost. Again, different times and while attendance back then was also spotty, there were times it was great. But the schedule generally has to align and the school can help with promotions and making it an event that students want to attend.

also, GKiller is a liar. He's been to the row pregame. He just wasn't a student at the time. PTL. One of the best games I've ever been to, for a variety of reasons, one of which was murdering WVa and effectively ending Gale Catlett's career. They got killed, were terrible the next year and then he was done.
 
I don't understand why people are so upset about this ranking. Mooney's teams usually are ~100th best in D1 on average, so it makes sense for him to be ranked ~100th best coach.
 
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