Men's Soccer and Track and Field cut in Favor of Lacrosse
- Thread starter MolivaManiac
- Start date
Curious as to how the A-10 commish office and other affiliated schools react to UR decision to punt on 2 sports.
Butler and VCU can't be happy and some others are probably scratching their heads but gotta say we made
the correct decision for UR.It won't take long for the LAX team to get nationally known by drawing Metro DC/Baltimore and
New England prep school players who otherwise would have gone IVY,JHU,Cuse,Loyola,Gtown,UMd,UVA,USNA,Duke,Denver.
Butler and VCU can't be happy and some others are probably scratching their heads but gotta say we made
the correct decision for UR.It won't take long for the LAX team to get nationally known by drawing Metro DC/Baltimore and
New England prep school players who otherwise would have gone IVY,JHU,Cuse,Loyola,Gtown,UMd,UVA,USNA,Duke,Denver.
32, we did not fully fund soccer, will we fully (scholies, recruiting budget, travel, coaches) fund lax to have a chance to compete? know money was promised, given but if this is not done first class, meaning "all in", then it is just plain stupid. We have trouble with baseball trying to fill out a squad with partial scholies and walkons and now we are just going to attract 45 really good lax players? i really hope we are all in and that we do but show me.
First of all, dropping long-standing programs like Men's Soccer and
Track is going to be an extremely poor reflection on the University in
the eyes of all of our peer institutions and the general public.
Especially given how flush with cash the school is overall (or at least
in the eyes of most people). We could have addressed the Title IX issues
by adding a couple of women's sports like volleyball.
As an
ex-soccer player, the most disturbing aspect of this is the way it was
handled. During the spring fund-raising contest, mens's soccer had the
highest participation rate.Yet, none of us were approached by the AD for
our input on this decision. It was like the school said "Make sure we
don't engage the soccer alumni, but let's be damn sure we wring as much
$$$$ out of them as we can this one final time". It was extremely
cynical, and downright criminal if you ask me.
This is an other
example of how big money (like secret super PAC money) ALWAYS trumps the
best interest of the student athlete. How can the school talk about how
they always act in the best interests of the students and alums when
the pull double-secret crap like this???
One thing I can say for
sure about this is the school will never, ever get one stinking dime
from me again. I thought I would NEVER say this in a million years, but I
woke up this morning ASHAMED to be associated with this University!
Track is going to be an extremely poor reflection on the University in
the eyes of all of our peer institutions and the general public.
Especially given how flush with cash the school is overall (or at least
in the eyes of most people). We could have addressed the Title IX issues
by adding a couple of women's sports like volleyball.
As an
ex-soccer player, the most disturbing aspect of this is the way it was
handled. During the spring fund-raising contest, mens's soccer had the
highest participation rate.Yet, none of us were approached by the AD for
our input on this decision. It was like the school said "Make sure we
don't engage the soccer alumni, but let's be damn sure we wring as much
$$$$ out of them as we can this one final time". It was extremely
cynical, and downright criminal if you ask me.
This is an other
example of how big money (like secret super PAC money) ALWAYS trumps the
best interest of the student athlete. How can the school talk about how
they always act in the best interests of the students and alums when
the pull double-secret crap like this???
One thing I can say for
sure about this is the school will never, ever get one stinking dime
from me again. I thought I would NEVER say this in a million years, but I
woke up this morning ASHAMED to be associated with this University!
There was mention the men had not had winning season since 2003 and that was a factor also. I would ask what has school done for soccer with practice facilities, coaching changes,etc... I look at Elon in similar fashion where the soccer team 5 years ago had to share the football field. Then 4 years ago they started with a separate soccer field without lights and simple fencing around it. They started raising funds and have lighting and simple stands on one side of complex.
Since 2005 they have had the same coach who has built the program into a winning one by playing tougher competition and recruiting good players within 300 miles of school. Consistency of steady improvement is a huge factor in maintaining a program.
Since 2005 they have had the same coach who has built the program into a winning one by playing tougher competition and recruiting good players within 300 miles of school. Consistency of steady improvement is a huge factor in maintaining a program.
If we bring back water polo and start an intercollegiate fencing team,wonder if it could lead to the demise of baseball.Pitt field could then be converted into an indoor practice facility for football,lax,field hockey...
And Elon beat #6 UNC Charlotte 2-0 yesterday.
I don't know all the facts behind this, and maybe I shouldn't care since I am not an alum, but I hate what I am hearing about all this. Is it true a group stepped forward with a large donation for lacrosse? Donations are appreciated but it seems a little strange to me that a donation can make this kind of change in the sports programs. And while I am not a soccer fan, how do you drop the most popular sport in the world?
From Jim Miller's quote in the RTD, it can be implied that w would have cut America's pastime to get into Queally's pocket if that had made more financial sense than to cut soccer.
USA... Apple Pie... Chevrolet... Lacrosse???
I'm sure that makes our baseball players feel great about this deal too.
This post was edited on 9/23 12:22 PM by MolivaManiac
USA... Apple Pie... Chevrolet... Lacrosse???
I'm sure that makes our baseball players feel great about this deal too.
This post was edited on 9/23 12:22 PM by MolivaManiac
The more I am learning about this, the more POd I get. It is all over the college news in Carolina and frankly, people are nervous that this "virus" will spread to other schools. Maybe UR ought to utilize students in Public Relations in SBA to give direction to the board on how to properly present changes.
Would you be willing to talk to The Collegian on the record about this by chance? My email is david.weissman@richmond.edu if you want to get in contact with me. Thanks
Here is a link to an interview with Lee, York, Valenski.
The interview has over 6000 views.
Interview with Richmond Track and Field
The interview has over 6000 views.
Interview with Richmond Track and Field
Yes the money is a big deal and we clearly had someone(s) willing to step up and pay for a new program. We also by the sounds of it had a financial need in other sports.
I think one thing that is getting lost in this is that UR realized that it had a space and sports complex issue with soccer that it could not (or would not) resolve. We had talked in another post about the need to fund for an on-campus soccer field. Could have the Athletic Department and the BOD said we either raise money for a soccer complex or a new lacrosse program? Then the BOD said we will fund a new lacrosse program while sacrificing soccer? Just some potential thoughts... We are trying to get in the minds/thoughts of multiple other individuals without the same necessary facts.
As a soccer player (still) and a soccer coach of my oldest child this stinks because now all we have in town are the Lambs.
Keefsub I hope you use this situation to strengthen the position of the soccer alumni and try to find a white knight willing to fund the most popular youth sport in the US and the most popular sport in the world. That white knight would also need money to help out women's athletics. In total that would probably put the bill around $10mill.
I think one thing that is getting lost in this is that UR realized that it had a space and sports complex issue with soccer that it could not (or would not) resolve. We had talked in another post about the need to fund for an on-campus soccer field. Could have the Athletic Department and the BOD said we either raise money for a soccer complex or a new lacrosse program? Then the BOD said we will fund a new lacrosse program while sacrificing soccer? Just some potential thoughts... We are trying to get in the minds/thoughts of multiple other individuals without the same necessary facts.
As a soccer player (still) and a soccer coach of my oldest child this stinks because now all we have in town are the Lambs.
Keefsub I hope you use this situation to strengthen the position of the soccer alumni and try to find a white knight willing to fund the most popular youth sport in the US and the most popular sport in the world. That white knight would also need money to help out women's athletics. In total that would probably put the bill around $10mill.
Not the University's finest hour. The roll out of this was positively awful.
I was unaware that we do not fully fund all allowable scholarships in baseball and soccer (other sports too, I assume). What a sad state of affairs given the coffers of our University. It's ok to be smart and athletic. I would think that we would want as many participants as practicable.
I was unaware that we do not fully fund all allowable scholarships in baseball and soccer (other sports too, I assume). What a sad state of affairs given the coffers of our University. It's ok to be smart and athletic. I would think that we would want as many participants as practicable.
Here's the latest RTD article on the subject. Nice job by the Soccer team to pull off it's second straight win last night..
JOC Update
JOC Update
Not sure of the irony here, but JOC's article didn't have a score from last night's game. Not sure if it shows laziness on T-D's part (highly likely) or general "non caring" about our team in general (likely as well)
FWIW i know of some highly influencial alumni working behind the scenes now to try and save it. We will see if it happens...
Here's an update from the meeting last night on campus. Is it just me, or does Ayers look a bit rattled?
Richmond Biz Sense
Richmond Biz Sense
It's too bad it looks like this is going through come hell or high water...they have justifications that they will standby for this decision ( keeping athletes at 13%, lacrosse is the fastest growing sport, etc). This is a sad day..
Not sure where I read it, but a common theme about the soccer team is that "contributes to diversity" on campus. A quick analysis of the on-line roster shows that is loose w/ the facts.
25 players
16 went to private school
9 went to public school, in such diverse areas as Deep Run, Moorestown NJ (wealthy suburb in Philly, Chantilly, Cary NC, and Mountain Lakes (North NJ NYC Suburb).
16 out of 25 is 65% of team went to private schools. Is that the same breakdown as the general population?
Also, those who comment about an alledged "alumnus buying his way",
I ask this question, who else stepped up and donated to $6M business school enhancement? I hope any of those who are campus complainers aren't enjoying the benefits of Queally Hall. You can't have it both ways.
This post was edited on 10/1 9:53 AM by Spidersssssss
25 players
16 went to private school
9 went to public school, in such diverse areas as Deep Run, Moorestown NJ (wealthy suburb in Philly, Chantilly, Cary NC, and Mountain Lakes (North NJ NYC Suburb).
16 out of 25 is 65% of team went to private schools. Is that the same breakdown as the general population?
Also, those who comment about an alledged "alumnus buying his way",
I ask this question, who else stepped up and donated to $6M business school enhancement? I hope any of those who are campus complainers aren't enjoying the benefits of Queally Hall. You can't have it both ways.
This post was edited on 10/1 9:53 AM by Spidersssssss
"I ask this question, who else stepped up and donated to $6M business school enhancement? I hope any of those who are campus complainers aren't enjoying the benefits of Queally Hall. You can't have it both ways."
Parent of a former UR athlete here. Not sure of the relevance of your question. Was some other program on campus cancelled, when the donation to the business school was accepted?
Parent of a former UR athlete here. Not sure of the relevance of your question. Was some other program on campus cancelled, when the donation to the business school was accepted?
I agree. If you spent $6M on the B-school but bulldozed a building which had people's name on it and sentimental value in the process ... you would have seen opposition.
Sssssss, I do agree with your other point about diversity but are people saying that international students prefer to watch our soccer team?
I will concede your point, because I don't know the answer. I don't know any of these people, nor was in the board meeting (although it seems like there alot of loose lips from those who were in it) so I would be speculating like the rest of us.
Successful people who donate large sums of money, typically have a large say in how that money is used. When Jepson Leadership School was built, many people questioned the value of "leadership" studies.15-20 years into, I would say that program has been a success.
I'm sure when the B-School Addition was built, the people (like Paul and his wife)who put the money up had a say into what they wanted. If you look at the finished product, I would say that it was money well spent.
At the end of the day, donations take two to tango. If UR didn't want a leadership school, or new business school wing or yes, a varsity lacrosse program, there is a two word answer. NO.
One final point. I do know that I'm getting tired of the general bashing of successful people get in this country. The article calls him "Wall Street Financier", like that is a Scarlet Letter or something. I guess I should expect that from the media, even something called Richmond Biz Sense, whatever that is.
Successful people who donate large sums of money, typically have a large say in how that money is used. When Jepson Leadership School was built, many people questioned the value of "leadership" studies.15-20 years into, I would say that program has been a success.
I'm sure when the B-School Addition was built, the people (like Paul and his wife)who put the money up had a say into what they wanted. If you look at the finished product, I would say that it was money well spent.
At the end of the day, donations take two to tango. If UR didn't want a leadership school, or new business school wing or yes, a varsity lacrosse program, there is a two word answer. NO.
One final point. I do know that I'm getting tired of the general bashing of successful people get in this country. The article calls him "Wall Street Financier", like that is a Scarlet Letter or something. I guess I should expect that from the media, even something called Richmond Biz Sense, whatever that is.
Totally agree. It is interesting to see that stuff filter down into our own little debate on nothing to do with the Election.
re:Sssssss, I do agree with your other point about diversity but are people saying that international students prefer to watch our soccer team?
i read in numerous places (and I can't remember where) that the soccer roster adds to the diversity of the student population. Judging my crude analysis, it doesn't, when 65% of the team went to private high schools. Now, not all kids at private schools are rich, but its not like the team has overwhelming number of kids you would consider "diverse".
To be a wise-a** about it, we are probably going to be replace private school kids and/or public school kids from wealthy areas,who player soccer with private school kids and/or public school kids from wealthe areas who play lacrosse
i read in numerous places (and I can't remember where) that the soccer roster adds to the diversity of the student population. Judging my crude analysis, it doesn't, when 65% of the team went to private high schools. Now, not all kids at private schools are rich, but its not like the team has overwhelming number of kids you would consider "diverse".
To be a wise-a** about it, we are probably going to be replace private school kids and/or public school kids from wealthy areas,who player soccer with private school kids and/or public school kids from wealthe areas who play lacrosse
Here's a pretty scathing letter written from the parents of Houston Oldham (Oldham Scholarships @ UR). Amazing to see all the problems that have been in the program for a number of years.
As parents of Senior Captain Houston Oldham, we were completely astonished at the decision to terminate the men's soccer program at the University of Richmond, particularly with regard to the manner and timing in which the news was delivered. Additionally, looking back, we feel as if the administration's overall incompetence with regard to the soccer program displayed throughout our four year tenure clearly indicates that there has never been much support for men's soccer at the highest levels of the Athletic Department. Our conclusion is that the University of Richmond does not deserve to have a men's soccer program due to the manner in which UR has treated this internationally popular sport and more importantly its student athletes. Houston would have never accepted the scholarship at Richmond if he had known how poorly the soccer program was being orchestrated and administered by the University.
Therefore, my family will be strongly influenced by how the men's soccer program was treated by the Administration before contemplating any future development gifts to the University. I will definitely link any potential overall gift to the University based upon how this administration has handled this decision.
Let me continue my brief analysis by commending the letter from Keith Hauser which outlines many of the same points which we recognize. Clearly, former men's soccer head Clint Peay was tipped off to the likely dissolution of the soccer program by virtue of his exit 3 weeks before the 2012 season, along with the administration of the A-10 soccer league. With the Charlotte men's soccer team moving from the A-10 (because of how well run the program has been run from day one) , and with the Richmond announcement, clearly, the A-10 needed 2 new men's soccer teams. Enter Butler and VCU at the beginning of the season which seemed at the time, a productive event. Now with the aforementioned 2 teams leaving (Charlotte and Richmond) there is balance, and a pre-planned contrivance to pre-arrange the destiny of the conference while waiting to announce to the student athletes at Richmond before game time last Friday afternoon. Shame on the Administration for the timing of this announcement. Clearly, it was no surprise however, given the manner in which they have run the program these last 4 years. Credit the resolve and gritty determination of the student athletes for winning that Friday night game in the face of such adversity and incredibly poor public relations timing from the University.
I'm not sure where to start with Clint Peay. Perhaps a disaster from the start is an understatement. "Coach" is too much of a complimentary term to bestow on such an individual who ran the program for three years too long. Houston attempted repeatedly to address the shortcomings of Peay with the administration, all of which fell upon deaf ears, particularly the ears of LaRee Sugg. Houston even utilized one of his marketing classes to attempt to breath life into the soccer program, only to be rebuffed at every turn. Peay had zero outreach with the student body as a whole, and even less credibility with the team that he was over. How and why this administration ever hired this individual, perhaps on pedigree alone, is symptomatic of how poor the decision making has been. To have all home matches held off campus for three consecutive years, without working to drive the student fans or local soccer organizations to the remote location is inexcusable. To not listen to the cacophony of internal voices from within the team surrounding the lackluster attitudes of Peay and his assistant during his disastrous tenure is at the minimum, certainly more telling of the administration than anything.
And so the critic might argue that the real reason for attending college is for the formal education and for the continuation of one's career goals in life. I would counter that argument by saying that University life and the benefits of the collegiate experience are far more complicated than just an education. A well rounded collegiate experience should not only involve formal education, but should give insights into how to successfully blend into "real" life, insights into the bonds or feelings for the chosen University, insights into personal growth via extra-cirricular activities and most importantly, insights and dealings with friendships who should become life long relationships, just to name a few.
When the University of Richmond pulled the rug out from under these soccer boys and their collegiate experience, through no fault of their own, without any regard for the final season, without any regard for their feelings, without any regard for their future relevancy at reunions, without any regard for the Administration's own behavior, and without any regard for the game of soccer itself, a sense of distrust and disgust emerges. This is what the Administration has created. And all for the glorious acceptance of a $3 million gift for the establishment of a Men's Lacrosse team. The Title IX defense runs thin with the disclosure of forming the LaCrosse team.
What a complete travesty of priorities regarding the process of the Board or Directors and the Athletic Department who so blatantly refused to look at how to improve the mens soccer program and how to improve its relevancy within the University and within the A-10. Obviously the high GPA ranking of the men's soccer program had no weight whatsoever. Certainly, the easy way out was taken. Is that the legacy the University wishes to instill into its student athletes? If the University even attempted to actively solicit appropriate well rounded discussion for the positive purpose of actively solidifying the men's soccer program, this decision may not have hit with such a dull and resounding thud.
As parents of Senior Captain Houston Oldham, we were completely astonished at the decision to terminate the men's soccer program at the University of Richmond, particularly with regard to the manner and timing in which the news was delivered. Additionally, looking back, we feel as if the administration's overall incompetence with regard to the soccer program displayed throughout our four year tenure clearly indicates that there has never been much support for men's soccer at the highest levels of the Athletic Department. Our conclusion is that the University of Richmond does not deserve to have a men's soccer program due to the manner in which UR has treated this internationally popular sport and more importantly its student athletes. Houston would have never accepted the scholarship at Richmond if he had known how poorly the soccer program was being orchestrated and administered by the University.
Therefore, my family will be strongly influenced by how the men's soccer program was treated by the Administration before contemplating any future development gifts to the University. I will definitely link any potential overall gift to the University based upon how this administration has handled this decision.
Let me continue my brief analysis by commending the letter from Keith Hauser which outlines many of the same points which we recognize. Clearly, former men's soccer head Clint Peay was tipped off to the likely dissolution of the soccer program by virtue of his exit 3 weeks before the 2012 season, along with the administration of the A-10 soccer league. With the Charlotte men's soccer team moving from the A-10 (because of how well run the program has been run from day one) , and with the Richmond announcement, clearly, the A-10 needed 2 new men's soccer teams. Enter Butler and VCU at the beginning of the season which seemed at the time, a productive event. Now with the aforementioned 2 teams leaving (Charlotte and Richmond) there is balance, and a pre-planned contrivance to pre-arrange the destiny of the conference while waiting to announce to the student athletes at Richmond before game time last Friday afternoon. Shame on the Administration for the timing of this announcement. Clearly, it was no surprise however, given the manner in which they have run the program these last 4 years. Credit the resolve and gritty determination of the student athletes for winning that Friday night game in the face of such adversity and incredibly poor public relations timing from the University.
I'm not sure where to start with Clint Peay. Perhaps a disaster from the start is an understatement. "Coach" is too much of a complimentary term to bestow on such an individual who ran the program for three years too long. Houston attempted repeatedly to address the shortcomings of Peay with the administration, all of which fell upon deaf ears, particularly the ears of LaRee Sugg. Houston even utilized one of his marketing classes to attempt to breath life into the soccer program, only to be rebuffed at every turn. Peay had zero outreach with the student body as a whole, and even less credibility with the team that he was over. How and why this administration ever hired this individual, perhaps on pedigree alone, is symptomatic of how poor the decision making has been. To have all home matches held off campus for three consecutive years, without working to drive the student fans or local soccer organizations to the remote location is inexcusable. To not listen to the cacophony of internal voices from within the team surrounding the lackluster attitudes of Peay and his assistant during his disastrous tenure is at the minimum, certainly more telling of the administration than anything.
And so the critic might argue that the real reason for attending college is for the formal education and for the continuation of one's career goals in life. I would counter that argument by saying that University life and the benefits of the collegiate experience are far more complicated than just an education. A well rounded collegiate experience should not only involve formal education, but should give insights into how to successfully blend into "real" life, insights into the bonds or feelings for the chosen University, insights into personal growth via extra-cirricular activities and most importantly, insights and dealings with friendships who should become life long relationships, just to name a few.
When the University of Richmond pulled the rug out from under these soccer boys and their collegiate experience, through no fault of their own, without any regard for the final season, without any regard for their feelings, without any regard for their future relevancy at reunions, without any regard for the Administration's own behavior, and without any regard for the game of soccer itself, a sense of distrust and disgust emerges. This is what the Administration has created. And all for the glorious acceptance of a $3 million gift for the establishment of a Men's Lacrosse team. The Title IX defense runs thin with the disclosure of forming the LaCrosse team.
What a complete travesty of priorities regarding the process of the Board or Directors and the Athletic Department who so blatantly refused to look at how to improve the mens soccer program and how to improve its relevancy within the University and within the A-10. Obviously the high GPA ranking of the men's soccer program had no weight whatsoever. Certainly, the easy way out was taken. Is that the legacy the University wishes to instill into its student athletes? If the University even attempted to actively solicit appropriate well rounded discussion for the positive purpose of actively solidifying the men's soccer program, this decision may not have hit with such a dull and resounding thud.
Interesting letter, and speaks to a lot of things that seemed odd from the outside...moving the team off-campus, complete lack of promotion, etc. Houston had been quoted in another article (Collegian, I think) as saying that this would obviously have an impact when it came time for him to decide how the Oldham monies are spent.
I do think they need to take off the tinfoil hat about this being a conference conspiracy though. The implication that Butler and VCU were brought as soccer programs to replace Charlotte and UR is an odd one.
I do think they need to take off the tinfoil hat about this being a conference conspiracy though. The implication that Butler and VCU were brought as soccer programs to replace Charlotte and UR is an odd one.
not attempting to be funny or abusive but these student athletes have learned and lived a life-lesson, life is not always fair and things happen outside one's ability to have a voice in a matter dear to them. hopefully this will be a part of their "education" at UR and will help them along the way as they go forward. respect the Oldham family a ton and hope this message hits home with the prez, the board and others that all decisions they make have ramifications on others and they should attempt to make said decisions positives rather than negatives.
This post was edited on 10/5 7:07 AM by WebSpinner
This post was edited on 10/5 7:07 AM by WebSpinner
Gutsy and well written letter from Peter Albright, the women's soccer coach and parent of a men's soccer player.
Albright on Carry The Flag
Albright on Carry The Flag
http://president.richmond.edu/board-of-trustees/membership.html
You can operate twitter like no man but can't figure out google? Ha.
You can operate twitter like no man but can't figure out google? Ha.
