It is time for a change.
- Thread starter Spiders05
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Agree completely. He was a great defender, especially for his size. Like Gonzo and all scorers could on occasion shoot you out of a game, but could deliver in the big game.
Francis was a polarizing player for sure. Talented but over-aggressive, feisty but selfish at times, careless but cold-blooded. I loved his approach to the game but wished he would have played a little more in control. His presence completely changed Gilly’s game for the worse, and we never have seen the old Gilly again offensively, except for a handful of games in the NIT and earlier this year,
But the kid hated to lose, and God knows we need more of that attitude in this program.
But the kid hated to lose, and God knows we need more of that attitude in this program.
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He has been one of the few athletes that refused to be controlled by Mooney. He stayed with what got him to being a good basketball player. Those type of recruits don’t last long with Mooney, unfortunately, they get tamed to follow the Boss and stay in line!
Yes, good point. Gonzo and KA were two other prime examples. I can recall some tension between KA and Mooney in the few games I saw in person.
Kendall Anthony also. He would piss Mooney off so bad his first year, I loved it. Kendall would come to the bench and take the cussing rant from Mooney and just look at the crowd and smile. Mooney never cracked that kid.
Francis was good player and brought some toughness to the team. But even if we had him this year - I don't think he improves our team by the necessary 4-6 wins it would take to put us on the bubble and the top section of the A10. Cause remember - for every shot he takes, and he took a lot, that is one less shot for a guy like Burton. So while I think Francis would help our team and we are better with him, we are not significantly better.
If early on we had Francis starting vs Wilson, we may have won a few more. I can remember Francis, shooting a 30 footer with 20 seconds left on shot clock in tied game and less than minute to go. I am screaming noooo as ball rips the net and Blake puts dagger in other team’s heart. He also had ability to get to the rim off tight coverage. Love or hate him, we have not had a go to attacker since he left. Gonzo like Francis was great defender and shut down the Xavier NBA guard in 2011 A10 Championship. When you have a fearless attacker it puts a lot of pressure on the other teams help defense.
I do agree 100% that Gilly’s game is much better after Francis left. The NIT with the subs playing was actually an awakening for players like Matt Grace who I think is our most improved player.
That sounds good, but the actual results paint a different picture.
Just taking a quick look at the stats from his time here (someone who is better at computers please check behind me), it looks like we were 33-12 (73% winning percentage) in games where he logged minutes as a Spider.
That means the core group (Cayo, Sherod, Golden, Gilyard) was 49-56 in games with no Blake Francis since the start of the 17-18 season (I understand there was some injury time mixed in here, but just looking at their time here as a whole).
He was super frustrating at times, yes - but it is hard to deny he is a proven winner.
You are looking at it from the cold business and mercenary standpoint. And why shouldn’t you? That’s what the business has established.
But he didn’t set the standards. And he has lived up to the better side, even though his teams are failing.
My point was that like a manger taking a pitcher out of a baseball game, he doesn’t say “give me the ball loser.
But some of the comments on here are doing exactly that.
I am not sure what comments your specifically referencing - but you are correct, no one should attack him personally. Mooney by all accounts is a nice man, a good example for our players and institution, he has grown during his time at UR from yelling and cursing on the sidelines to a more calm demeanor (some like - some don't) - but the two points I was trying to make and you made one as well - 1) Did he win enough? To the fans on this board, the majority would say no - simply because we have not made the NCAA tourney in over 10 years, and we have not beaten VCU, and we have not been at the top of the A10 consistently. 2) If he does get fired - should we feel bad for him. My answer is NO. Mooney in my book is a success story. He has climbed from coaching HS in Pennsylvania, to Beaver college and planning weddings on the side - all the way to head coach at an A10 school making over $1 million dollars a year for the last 10 years. AND - I believe he has a good enough record and clean image that if he were to get fired from UR and still wants to coach, he will have opportunities to do so at a likely a lower level - maybe CAA, NEC, Ivy, Patriot - etc. So I don't feel sorry for him or his family - but you are correct, there should be no personal attack on him - he is a good person, who just didn't win enough games. But win enough depends on the expectation - and I think the expectation of some of the fans and the school differ. And after this season - we will see that come to light and how far apart they really are.
This is a really well reasoned post and summarizes a lot of posters views in a concise and better way. 8Legs1Badattitude, please take notes from this post.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
I don’t need to type up an essay to express how pathetic our basketball program is. Now get back to your koolaid kid.
The thing is, maybe winning is not important to the admin and Hardt. But it should be. When your school goes to the NCAA's you get so much free advertising. It is a huge boost and common bonding point for alumni. Our lack of success in this area is hurting our morale, number and quality of applicants, etc. Yes, PQ's money seems to drown out this notion, and I don't like that.
That is a good point Spider23 - how is our admission doing through the pandemic and as we come out? There was an article in the RTD, but I think it was just the state schools in VA and the admissions numbers varied greatly. Some schools were obviously hurting and having 10-15% in admission numbers, but other schools were seeing 5-15% increase in admissions.
Everyone knows the NCAA tourney is the best advertising a school can get. But I don't think our school cares all that much. Endowment is strong. Attendance this year was strong this year - article just posted on school website says this was our highest ranking in terms of national attendance (COVID Likely helped knock other schools down for us), but overall averaged 6000 fans a night.
So school might be thinking - everything seems to be just fine, nothing to see here. Lets keep moving along with Mooney and his .55% winning percentage.
Everyone knows the NCAA tourney is the best advertising a school can get. But I don't think our school cares all that much. Endowment is strong. Attendance this year was strong this year - article just posted on school website says this was our highest ranking in terms of national attendance (COVID Likely helped knock other schools down for us), but overall averaged 6000 fans a night.
So school might be thinking - everything seems to be just fine, nothing to see here. Lets keep moving along with Mooney and his .55% winning percentage.
University of Richmond: "We don't care."
Maybe they'll start selling that t-shirt at the bookstore.
Maybe they'll start selling that t-shirt at the bookstore.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
It helps on the recruiting front too. You think coaches are walking into these kids gyms and homes and not harping on making the NCAA tourney or winning a game or two there? It is a big deal at every level from high major on down. What can Moonie say, "hey when you were five we made a Sweet Sixteen run!" 🤡
Especially if these kids see and know the talent Mooney has lost with.
My guess is that being ranked in the top 10 of US News and World Report has a much bigger impact on application numbers than making, or even winning, the NCAA tournament. Gonzaga’s acceptance rate is 73% for example.
Application numbers to college are down across the board in the US right now, and schools with smaller endowments are having to make really tough decisions. I would guess schools like La Salle and St. Joes are in financial trouble, and could be looking at significant changes such as merging with other schools.
Fan2011 - I would disagree, and it would be interesting for someone to study - but I am willing to bet - if your a school that makes the tourney, and can win a game - your admission numbers take off. Longwood might be a good example, I am pretty sure they are struggling from an admissions standpoint - but I bet if they can win 1 game in the tourney - they are no longer worried about admissions numbers.
But I think you are correct in the sense that I am willing to bet UR is more worried about their US News World Report ranking more than any success we have on the court. I am not saying the overall ranking of the school shouldn't be priority, but I think the 2 can go together and be 1 and 1a. Because if you have a successful basketball team - if could move your ranking in the US News report up.
But I think you are correct in the sense that I am willing to bet UR is more worried about their US News World Report ranking more than any success we have on the court. I am not saying the overall ranking of the school shouldn't be priority, but I think the 2 can go together and be 1 and 1a. Because if you have a successful basketball team - if could move your ranking in the US News report up.
I certainly want to win tournament games, but I don't think winning tournament games matters much for admission numbers at a school like Richmond. we get plenty of applications. we're a highly respected school. the marginal increase in applications from NCAA tournament wins doesn't likely move the needle on the quality of the students that we actually accept, and we're accepting the same number regardless of the number of applications we get so there's no financial boost ... unless you're counting the fee we charge for an application.
yes, I agree some lesser known schools do benefit from tournament wins.
This link at least seems to show no correlation between the success of our basketball program and admission rates or yield, though it only goes back to 2011 https://www.collegetuitioncompare.com/amp/trends/university-of-richmond/admission/
The boost comes from accepting more students who can pay full price. That would be the only significant impact. Now whether NCAA tourney moves that needle - I don't know.
And we have talked about need blind and all that - but if it comes down to a decision between 2 kids who are exactly the same, but one kid can afford to pay 50K a year in tuition and the other can only afford 20K a year - who do you think they are taking?
But to your point Spiderman - if NCAA appearance has no effect on admissions at UR, then why do we even have athletics? Or I guess the school is justified in not caring a whole lot about them - because in the grand scheme of the University - they mean very little other than a way to admit probably 200 kids who otherwise without athletics would not be able to gain admission into UR. Maybe the school is correct in not caring about athletics because it has little to no effect on the overall mission of the University.
And we have talked about need blind and all that - but if it comes down to a decision between 2 kids who are exactly the same, but one kid can afford to pay 50K a year in tuition and the other can only afford 20K a year - who do you think they are taking?
But to your point Spiderman - if NCAA appearance has no effect on admissions at UR, then why do we even have athletics? Or I guess the school is justified in not caring a whole lot about them - because in the grand scheme of the University - they mean very little other than a way to admit probably 200 kids who otherwise without athletics would not be able to gain admission into UR. Maybe the school is correct in not caring about athletics because it has little to no effect on the overall mission of the University.
Past years it has been widely reported the bounce in admissions schools get from getting to the dance, winning a game, etc. Guarantee it would be a big boost for Richmond, every year we are fading from consciousness. Let's not let truther nation sugar coat this. Good point Trap, these can go hand in hand, its not an either or. We were in a great place, now we are not.
How March Madness success boosted admissions for 5 universities
A successful athletic run can bring millions of dollars worth of free marketing, and, as a result, an increase in admissions and tuition revenue.
I agree they go hand in hand. But I think UR views them as one or the other, and they pick the school over the athletics, not seeing the benefit of putting the school 1 and athletics 1a. But Spiderman might have hit the nail on the head - maybe this is how our administration views it - that it has little to no effect on the university, and therefore - we should only strive to "compete" and not winning because either way - they think we will end up in the same place. So why put forth the extra effort and resources to do so - lets just continue with the status quo, keep competing, and keep our high US News ranking.
just my opinion. we get 14,000 application per year. we accept 4,000.
is it better to get 16,000 applications? sure i guess some people would get excited about that. we'll still accept 4,000 though.
will the extra 2,000 application bring in better students? I doubt it. not sure how many rabid basketball fans there are with higher scores than our average student.
but winning is awesome for the student experience and alumni pride. and it should increase donations. those are the reasons that matter to me. not getting more applications. I don't care about that.
is it better to get 16,000 applications? sure i guess some people would get excited about that. we'll still accept 4,000 though.
will the extra 2,000 application bring in better students? I doubt it. not sure how many rabid basketball fans there are with higher scores than our average student.
but winning is awesome for the student experience and alumni pride. and it should increase donations. those are the reasons that matter to me. not getting more applications. I don't care about that.
I don’t doubt that making the NCAA tournament generally has a positive impact on admissions. I seriously doubt that it is the “the best advertising a school can get.”
Agree Sman and 2011 that the increase in applications are not the end all, but the increase in applicants are big stories that get repeated and make the school more well known. More talk in the media, keeps the story alive an extra week or two. Hell, I was just a poly sci major but I know the impact having good hoops has. Kids these days that are not locked in on hoops don't even know Richmond is D1, when Tarrant took us to the sweet 16, or even Mooney - it raised the level of awareness. If I was wearing a Richmond shirt, people would ask about it. Now, nothing. You guys will do anything to promote the status quo. Wow.
Good point SpiderMan - any research out there on endowments and do they increase following a NCAA bid or run? Do alumni donate more after seeing their school on the TV in the NCAA tourney? That would be a good impact to have - right? Wonder if there is any research on that. I would expect it moves the needle a little bit - but how much, that a good question.
Pretty much for instance VMI played Tech in football on Thanksgiving day and it was a good game
I am not happy with the current state of the program, but some of the arguments here are highly speculative, and I think counterproductive as well. The simplest answer is that the admin and decision makers just don’t care about the type of success that we want, and that they believe the success of the basketball program doesn’t have a significant impact on the success of Richmond as a school. They are probably right on that one.
What am I reading wrong? We have a 4 year student body of 4,000 and accept (and enroll?) 4,000 EACH year?
Exactly, we only enroll about 800. If they get accepted to UVA or Princeton, or can’t afford UR’s financial package then they go somewhere else even though they were accepted here. Admissions has it down to a science how many will accept. Va tech gets well over 42,000 applications and about 8000 freshmen enroll.
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