What’s wrong with you guys? Grace is starting — I can’t believe you all dedicate this much time to the team but still get this one wrong. 
Isaiah Bigelow - 6'7 Guard/Wing
- Thread starter spider23
- Start date
Bigelow may end up starting but I’m not putting him over Matt. Stats are all good but he still is going to have to win that spot from say…MFG and is Coach going do Matt like that. Matt, Goose, Tyler and Quinn are locks imo. The battle will be at the lead guard spot. No matter what lineup starts I think we are solid with what will be coming off the bench. Can’t forget Crab in all this either.
Bigelow is a very good rebounder, much better than Grace. But I am not convinced Bigelow is a better 3pt shooter than Grace. He is also smaller, and not as efficient from 2 or the FT line, and is not as good of a passer based on last seasons stats. Bigelow did have a very high usage rate, which pumps up his raw numbers but probably lowers his efficiency. He also came off the bench last year at Wofford, it doesn't add up to guaranteed starter in my eyes. I think he subs in for Grace or Quinn (with Grace sliding over to the 5 when Quinn comes out).
That’s fair a lot of you guys are stats heavy but I like the eye test…watching them in game/watching them on film and maybe I’m just old enough to be stuck in my ways. If he does start I don’t think it’s a bad thing and as I’ve said before I’m glad we have solid options and that fans are excited about the future.
The "start Grace" crowd has never adequately answered the problem of what to do when Quinn comes out at the 5, or worse, if both Quinn and Grace need to come out at the same time. You are basically relying on Walz being ready to play significant minutes from day 1. Even if Grace is better than Bigelow (dubious), either one is probably MUCH better than Walz at this point. Grace will get plenty of minutes backing up both the 4 and the 5 positions. We have nobody else on the roster that can play both positions. The is an excellent skill that negates some of the problem of only have 2 guys over 6'7" on the roster with college experience.
Let me state this out separately -- The problem with Grace starting isn't so much with Grace as the backups it forces you to play when he and Quinn come out.
Let me state this out separately -- The problem with Grace starting isn't so much with Grace as the backups it forces you to play when he and Quinn come out.
If Quinn plays 30 minutes and Grace plays 25 minutes, they will both be on the court at the same time for at least 15 minutes. Why can't some of those 15 minutes be when the game tips off?
Eye test only works if you have seen them play, haha. Stats do not (and cannot) capture everything about a player, but many times it is all we have to go on.
That’s fair and maybe why I don’t have an amazing life😂 I watch to much bball 😂
If Grace is Quinn's backup, I don't want him already gassed from playing the 4 when Quinn comes out. So you'd have to quickly pull Grace out so he is rested when you insert him back in at the 5. Also, I would take the under on Grace getting 25 minutes a game.
Could you guys see a scenario where Quinn may not start? He’s a very intelligent guy but will he pick up the system quickly?
no, and yes.
I'm 100% with Mountain. if you start Quinn and Grace, you basically have to pull one at the 17 minute mark to get him ready to come back in 3 minutes later. just not necessary.
Grace can get plenty of time backing up both spots.
Why would you have to take them both out at the same time? Might as well ask what do we do when Nelson and Dji both have to come out. When would both of them have to come out together? Yikes, if this were the norm, what would teams that play 6 guys do? A week ago we didn't even have Quinn. Are we really going to panic now and wonder how to survive for a few minutes if Quinn comes out?
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Not trying to be difficult here at all, but why would you have to take one out at the 17 minute mark?
or the 16 minute mark. I just don't expect a big to be effective with really long runs. it's not the 4 minute run that's the issue. if you start both and expect to move one over to the 5 at some point when you take the starting 5 out, then that guy has been on a really long run. bigs usually need more breaks than guards.
nothing from watching Grace or the little video I've seen on Quinn make me thing either is some marathon runner.
I'd expect Quinn to be handled similarly to how Grant was run. Grace too. I saw Grant fill the lane up ahead many times. never saw that from Grace.
I agree SpiderDad. Matty Buckets was keeping Grant on the bench at times down the home stretch. I wouldn’t put it passed him to do the same to Quinn who has no experience in Mooney’s system.
please tell me one thing ... anything ... that's complicated these days in Mooney's system (as if he's invented some new kind of basketball).
Lafayette ran the same stuff with the ball running through the 5 both top of the key and on the block. Quinn's the better scorer, defender, rebounder, and passer. I don't see any chance if healthy he's not the 5.
Lafayette ran the same stuff with the ball running through the 5 both top of the key and on the block. Quinn's the better scorer, defender, rebounder, and passer. I don't see any chance if healthy he's not the 5.
I dont see that scenario. I think he starts immediately.
This is exactly how I feel. I’ll add what you couldn’t — Dji will be starting game 1.
I'm with you sman, if our concepts are rocket surgery - to steal your term haha - then they should be scrapped. Kind of like the match up zone, that would drive me crazy hearing how we needed a guy to have 2 to 3 years in the system to be a good defender. I don't think that should be an issue for any of these players.
Quinn will be playing 30+ minutes a game, ideally. As mentioned above, it's pretty unlikely that he and Grace will only be in the game at the exact same time. So Grace can slide to the 5 for a few of those minutes when Quinn is out, and the rest of the time we can go "small" with a bunch of 6'7" guys. Not the worst option.
Agree. No way Grace comes back for extra year and comes off the bench. I doubt he’d come back with any expectation of that, and I really don’t see Mooney doing that to Grace.What’s wrong with you guys? Grace is starting — I can’t believe you all dedicate this much time to the team but still get this one wrong.
Call me naïve but Matt will remind us of a guy name Frank!No to his level but much improved.
It’s a read system for cutting. So the wing has multiple options based off what the defender is doing. Passer and cutter need to be on the same page.
Is that overly complicated? No. But it’ll take a little time for Quinn to come up to full speed, more so with his teammates and them being on the same page than understanding the system.
The bigger part is the Mooney trust. He tends to trust “his guys” and guys that have been in his system/on his team for a long time. I think that gives Matty Buckets the edge, especially early in the season.
So what are you implying with “MB the edge early in the season”? Are you referencing starting, playing time, what specifically?
The entire thread seems to be dedicated to whether Matt Grace will start or not.
Thing we have to remember about Grace is his ability to hit the three on a consistent basis.
I believe this year if we stay healthy and have Crabtree, Dji and Goos available majority of year,
we will have more lineup options than we have had since the 2011 team.
I believe this year if we stay healthy and have Crabtree, Dji and Goos available majority of year,
we will have more lineup options than we have had since the 2011 team.
I’m not quite sure what to think of Bigelow, sort of feels like a Cayo replacement with more outside in game. Shot is way more natural than Nate’s so that’s encouraging.
I’m on fire tonight, but isn’t the point of the board to debate these very points during a long off-season?
We’ll certainly miss Cayo’s inside moves but I’m excited to have a “4” on the floor who can shoot 3s at all times next year. Grace/Bigelow/Burton
I hope Matt fights for a starting spot, but I don't care if a player expects to start. best guys play. and if Mooney has Grace coming off the bench, he didn't "do" anything to Grace. there can't be any promises or obligation.
Matt made some plays for us, but I have no idea what some of you were watching to think he's guaranteed a starting spot. his play and his numbers don't guarantee anything.
I hear you, Sman, and agree there are no guarantees and agree the best guys play. Who do you think starts instead of him? As of now, I think Grace is the starter because, yes, the best guys play and he is our best option to start, not instead of Quinn, but with him. But, if Bigelow, Crabtree, or anyone else beats him out, cool, that means we are that much better.
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Right now, I think the only one you can truly pencil in as a starter is Burton (probably Goose too). The rest of the guys have to earn that spot in the offseason and whomever starts has to also fit with the rest of the starters. I certainly expect Quinn to start at the 5 and probably Jason Nelson as the PG, but given that one is a freshmen and one a transfer, I don't think we can definitively pencil them in a starters. Too many variables, TBD.
it's certainly possible.
I think Quinn is a lock at the 5, plus 2 forwards and 2 guards.
one of the forwards is Burton.
the other forward can be Grace, Crabtree, Bigelow, or even Goose. or the last roster spot.
I'm leaning Crabtree or Bigelow right now.
Note that in my original post I never used the word “guaranteed”. Plz reread for specific terminology. We can revisit if Grace starts when the opening tip is next year. I say regardless of all the posts, rationalizations, and combinations / permutations of lineups suggested, in the end MG will start.
