Gregg Marshall getting the boot
- Thread starter SFspidur
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Yes, I admit I always thought we missed the boat on this guy, but he turned out to be a little too Bobby Knight in the wrong kind of ways. I think he had 7 or 8 players transfer after last season - so that should have been a warning indicator. One of the transfers, Noah Fernandes has the potential to be a really good PG at Umass.
Maybe thats why the program is no longer around.Guess that UR degree in sport management missed covering a few important topics...
The clause probably says "If Marshall is found to have done anything untoward during his time at Wichita State, but the program has attained a top-25 ranking for X number of weeks, he is entitled to 2/3 of his remaining contract" or something like that.
They knew what they were getting, and they re-upped him once or twice, too. The same thing is probably going to happen with LSU football in the next few months. They got their national title, turned the other cheek to assault allegations and now can act horrified that bad things might have been going on, but Orgeron will still see most of his money too, I'd bet you anything.
They knew what they were getting, and they re-upped him once or twice, too. The same thing is probably going to happen with LSU football in the next few months. They got their national title, turned the other cheek to assault allegations and now can act horrified that bad things might have been going on, but Orgeron will still see most of his money too, I'd bet you anything.
I'd take my chances that Marshall wouldn't want any more of this aired in public. I wouldn't offer another dime.
he's gone no matter what. I'm just saying I don't think you pay him to leave when he's done what he's accused of. you kick him to the curb. he'd have some set of balls to sue.
Wouldn't a university have its own legal counsel, which it is already paying to resolve contract dispute likes this? I literally see no downside to Witchita daring him to sue them. Firing Marshall was the only logical move from the University to save a PR nightmare, except they created a new PR nightmare by paying him 8 million dollars on the way out the door. That's some bad crisis management by Witchita St.
UR was very generous with Keith Gill in his departure and even got him another job and he was a part-time AD living in DC
Greg made Wichita State and the Missouri Valley conference a ton of dough over the years.
Best to look the other way when the cash register was humming.He’ll land on his feet with another coaching gig whenever the right opportunity presents itself.
Best to look the other way when the cash register was humming.He’ll land on his feet with another coaching gig whenever the right opportunity presents itself.
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Article on why WSU paid him the $7.75 million. I hadn't realized his 7-year deal signed in 2015 was a rolling one, so he was contracted through 2027 at $3.5 million per with a $15 million buyout.
As for the cause issue, the article notes the difficulty of dealing with inevitable litigation if they tried to fire with cause.
As for the cause issue, the article notes the difficulty of dealing with inevitable litigation if they tried to fire with cause.
just another example of coaching contracts run amok. & this one ain’t that bad considering what Marshall accomplished at Wichita. But overall when will admins learn. Close to home UR has made this mistake. its probably 10:1 against on contracts being too long & too much w exorbitant buyouts vs. those that r too short. Only select few deserve over 5+ years. The upward mobility angle is driven by coaches & agents to their credit but in reality not tons of places to be hired esp as u get reasonably high. The recruiting angle is overrated too. Even worse in football. Schools like TN & Pitt r just a couple I know well that r locked into terrible contracts for ZERO zero good reason. Who else would hire Pruitt he’s central casting out of movie Deliverance. The ADs should be out. The coaches r so much smarter than ADs it’s not close...here at UR & most elsewhere.
Over/under on Danny Hurley? I'll give it 2 years in the Big East to prove he's a good recruiter but a poor in-game coach, and his won-lost record will cease to protect him from his "intensity".
Oh boy Kneepad, haven't heard any allegations against Hurley, but he has very similar sideline demeanor to Marshall, they may want to stay away from that one. And if Hurley does flame out at Uconn, not sure the Koch's would have him on the radar. Agree that Hurley may be an average to poor in game coach. He may end up being good, but no clear evidence to back up that he is good as of yet. At URI, he was recruiting at a pretty high level by the end, so hard to tell.
back to length of term on contracts, you can be "smart" and not offer a long term ... only to lose the coach you want to keep. that's not necessarily smart either. you pay what the market dictates, and often it's a longer term than you'd like.
Sure but that's the exception not the norm. Comes back to bite you way more often. And if a coach wants to leave he still will bc their side of the "buyout" is so much less, their new employer might cover it, or a lawyer negotiates it down. In general longer terms rarely keep coaches from leaving but more frequently delay or prevent dismissals.
Also I'm referring to extensions primarily not the original contracts. It's the 2nd contract that usually gets you in most trouble. When you're looking to hire a coach originally yeah u may have to go a little more on $ & term. Many extensions aren't dictated by the market. They were complete overreaches that were obvious from the get go. The two football examples I mentioned above are not abnormal. There wasn't even a market for those coaches. At very least u have to work in a reasonable buyout on the university side. Athletic administrators help set the market anyway, they just do a terrible job at it imo and reinforces to me that athletic administrators are very far from the brightest bulbs out there. Exceptions always exist. Just don't look for them in Knox, the Pitts, Richmond, Williamsburg, on & on...
the whole "reasonable buyout" concept is a myth though. I've read about that too many times. it doesn't exist. an 8 year deal with a "reasonable buyout" after 4 years isn't an 8 year deal. it's a 4 year deal. there's no reason for a coach looking for a longer term deal to sign that ... if he has other options of course.
but hey remember sman the main point is u shouldn't be handing out 8 year deals to begin with!
I don't want to debate on what "reasonable" means bc everyone will be different, but agree your hypothetical 8 & 4 is extreme. Tho i disagree that reasonable buyouts are a myth. They 100% exist. Should there be more imo? Definitely.
Goodman had that link with buyouts some bball coaches have, reasonable ones were documented. Aware of some good football ones too. I know 2 sports agents - & apologies on being the I know so & so guy here - 1 of them even had direct negotiation with UR on a coach contract - and I can tell u they could attest that buyouts, some being reasonable, exist. Too many are quite bad. Need more savvy ADs, too many punt on leverage but there are some good ones. part of the issue is now these ADs use same agents and/or search firms as coaches do.
No wonder the NCAA institutions cant afford to pay student athletes. Athletic Departments spend most their money paying buyouts to failed coaches.
I understand the reason why some of these programs give contracts like this – it's because they feel they must have that coach in order to remain at the level they're at. I heard a former MLB general manager discussing trade deadline deals and free agent signings a couple years back and he made the point that he didn't mind overpaying with prospects or money if it meant getting the star player he wanted – someone was going to get that guy, and he wanted it to be his team. I think that's the same type of mindset a lot of these ADs have.
That said, what is right for Duke with Coach K or UNC with Roy Williams is not going to be right for most places. Sometimes you do need to be prudent and recognize that you've bitten off more than you can chew.
That said, what is right for Duke with Coach K or UNC with Roy Williams is not going to be right for most places. Sometimes you do need to be prudent and recognize that you've bitten off more than you can chew.
I think it has more to do with the fact that it is easy to spend other people’s money. It is the big dollar donor’s that support this type of transaction. If the athletic departments had to support these deals on its own, it wouldn’t agree to them. End of story.
Man, if Hurley hasn't physically or verbally abused someone, I would be shocked. His sideline demeanor is boorish and embarrassing. Remember a few years ago, Marshall got kicked out of an entire Canadian providence for his behavior during an exhibition game up there. And Marshall is generally way more subdued than Hurley on the sideline.
Maybe its an act that he can turn on and off, if it is, its a darn good one.
sman check out reports on Jim Harbaugh extension. Signed extension that now puts him under contract for 5 more seasons thru 2025 but if he’s fired after next season he’s only owed 1 year. Would be a 1 year buyout w 4 seasons left. And the buyout only goes down from there.
different situation.
when we gave the big extension we definitely wanted to keep CM, and based on the season we had he would have been in demand.
Harbaugh is coming off a 2-4 year with only 1 year left on his contract.and a very uncertain future at Michigan. they basically gave him a cheap 1 year deal with huge incentives. the "5 years" is icing for recruiting purposes.
when we gave the big extension we definitely wanted to keep CM, and based on the season we had he would have been in demand.
Harbaugh is coming off a 2-4 year with only 1 year left on his contract.and a very uncertain future at Michigan. they basically gave him a cheap 1 year deal with huge incentives. the "5 years" is icing for recruiting purposes.
well u said it was a myth. Sure every situation is different. Not sure why u r comparing to Mooney 10 year deal. Actually a comparison would be Mooney recent extension. Mooney coming off 9 straight seasons w/o NCAA, uncertain future, not in demand, some ppl say he needed it for recruiting. well Moon has 3 years left & if we had a good AD who could use leverage and the situation like Michigan's AD, we could have cut Moon's pay and subbed in incentives & could buy out Mooney for 1 now too! Otherwise need our big donor to step up but if this season fails to meet expectations even PQ might reach his breaking point regardless.
Contracts and lengths and lack of buyouts - these were all part of the college basketball spending arms race. I am curious to see if any of this changes post-COVID, especially with schools that just barely survived this pandemic.
I think I know the answer, and it is likely - nothing will change. This pandemic has given our society the biggest possible "reset" button to change things we didn't like or that were not working as well as they should. But at the end of the day - rather than think outside the box and say - how can we change this, many will just go back to the way things were, even though - they were not that good to begin with.
I think I know the answer, and it is likely - nothing will change. This pandemic has given our society the biggest possible "reset" button to change things we didn't like or that were not working as well as they should. But at the end of the day - rather than think outside the box and say - how can we change this, many will just go back to the way things were, even though - they were not that good to begin with.
