Football to Patriot League. Should basketball and rest of sports be concerned?

[spiderstudent17]

Though I think the Big East is still a pipe dream, the NIL world does offer us a sliver of an opportunity to show that we belong there. String together a few more seasons like last one (that also include NCAA bids and hopefully a few wins there) and we become a lot more marketable in those circles.

I agree that it is still a lofty reach at this point, but still the door for us to go in the Big East is certainly not closed by any means, in my opinion. We were in the conversation in 2013 when Xavier and Butler left. That's after our back-to-back NCAAs and Sweet 16 appearance. Recently we've won an A10 tournament and round of 32 NCAA in 2021 and regular season co-champions in 2024.

The thing we're missing the most, which of course is the biggest thing they look for, is sustained basketball success. I think with the way NIL and transport portal has been the past few years, it benefits our school greatly. We are able to reload every year with either proven talent from a player looking to go up or a high level talent from High School looking to showcase themselves at a lower level than P6. As far as everything else, the Big East conference and University presidents look for, we have it. We are a small, private, strong academic, basketball-centric school with a large endowment in close proximity to other schools geographically. Richmond would be a new market too that is far enough away from DC. We have a lot going for us. It's inevitable that the Big East will expand too. If we keep winning and doing well in the A10 and hopefully have a solid NCAA tourney run or two, I'm sure we will be in consideration, especially factoring in that the Big East brand will only further elevate our basketball program from a recruiting, scheduling, and at-large NCAA standpoint.

For instance, it looks like the A10 is likely going to add Charleston as a member. What exactly has Charleston achieved other than winning a significantly lower basketball league (CAA to A10 is a bigger jump than A10 to Big East) and having a lot of overall wins the past few seasons? However, we see likely see the potential that Charleston will bring.

 

[97spiderfan]

We need to start stringing together NCAA tournament bids if we want the Big East to begin to consider us. One NCAA bid in the last 12 years is not even close to what the Big East would be looking for if and when they expand.

 

[spiderstudent17]

We need to start stringing together NCAA tournament bids if we want the Big East to begin to consider us. One NCAA bid in the last 12 years is not even close to what the Big East would be looking for if and when they expand.

Completely agree. It is certainly lacking in this regard. My overall point is that I don’t think we need to have Gonzaga level success in the tournament to be considered. Trending in an upward trajectory is important. Kind of like buying a stock expecting it to go up over time. We check all the other prerequisite boxes. Obviously, this is all conjecture on my end and I have no idea what they look for now, but it is a plus we were considered 11 years ago.

Also, I want UR to strive to be the best it can be. We can be happy with where we are at in the A10, but that doesn’t mean we can’t have higher ambitious or goals.

 

[SFspidur]

One of the biggest hurdles lies 7 miles down Broad Street. Public or private, if the Big East expands they're going to look closely at whatever schools boost their profile the most, and they've already got UConn.

Among other A-10 teams, Dayton is undoubtedly ahead of us in the pecking order, even if X doesn't want them. SLU hasn't had as much hoops success as they'd like, but they check every other box...big market, solid facilities, willingness to spend, and they sort of bridge the geographic gap to Creighton.

Wichita was bandied about for a long time and they're not a great fit for the AAC, but the buzz around them has died down some as their performance has declined in recent years.

Some have suggested the Big East grab the cream of the WCC for a west-coast flank...Gonzaga, St. Mary's, San Francisco, maybe Santa Clara.

They have a lot of options if they choose to expand. We can try to position ourselves as best we can, but there are a lot of factors at play that we don't control.

 

[spiderman]

I think the biggest hurdle by far is enrollment.
no matter how good our basketball team does the next few years, I don't think the Big East is adding a school with 3,000 undergrads.

 

[spiderstudent17]

One of the biggest hurdles lies 7 miles down Broad Street. Public or private, if the Big East expands they're going to look closely at whatever schools boost their profile the most, and they've already got UConn.

Among other A-10 teams, Dayton is undoubtedly ahead of us in the pecking order, even if X doesn't want them. SLU hasn't had as much hoops success as they'd like, but they check every other box...big market, solid facilities, willingness to spend, and they sort of bridge the geographic gap to Creighton.

Wichita was bandied about for a long time and they're not a great fit for the AAC, but the buzz around them has died down some as their performance has declined in recent years.

Some have suggested the Big East grab the cream of the WCC for a west-coast flank...Gonzaga, St. Mary's, San Francisco, maybe Santa Clara.

They have a lot of options if they choose to expand. We can try to position ourselves as best we can, but there are a lot of factors at play that we don't control.

Like many things in life, what will generate more profit will be the driving force in their decisions. I still think think that the Big East wanting to have a school that matches their conference's institutional profile as much as possible will be of preference to them.

VCU & Wichita - These schools are a stark opposite in the make-up of the Big East schools today. UConn is the only public school in the conference now, but it seems like they are more the exception than the rule given their history with the Big East and the fact that they have historically been one of the top basketball programs in the country

Gonzaga or other WCC schools - Sure, I guess it would be possible that schools will be willing to have this long travel, and we're seeing it more now with teams like Stanford going to fly to Miami for a conference game. In basketball, though it may be harder to justify without football level money revenue. WCC is also improving a lot as a conference too and Gonzaga has done quite well success wise being in it.

San Diego St or other MWC schools - Travel like above and also I imagine the football element would be deal-breakers for them and wanting to remain at FBS level.

Wake Forest, Boston College, Syracuse - If the ACC implodes and if these schools fall on the short-end of the stick with football realignment, would they go back to the Big East? Not sure if they would give up their dream for top flight football and don't think Big East will change its basketball-centric perspective.

Dayton, SLU - Certainly in the same boat as us. Would think Dayton has the best chance, sans Gonzaga, at the Big East, but would be competing with the Xavier market.

Big East certainly doesn't need to expand out of necessity for maintaining conference stability. It will likely be out of pressure from TV network contracts to get into newer markets to increase viewership. So if/when that time comes, I hope Richmond will have strung a few very good seasons together because we have other external factors in our favor (geography, school profile, etc)

I think the biggest hurdle by far is enrollment.
no matter how good our basketball team does the next few years, I don't think the Big East is adding a school with 3,000 undergrads.

Butler and Providence college have about 4,000 undergrad. Xavier is at about 5000 undergrad. I don't think that will be the deal breaker for them.

 

[spiderman]

Butler and Providence college have about 4,000 undergrad. Xavier is at about 5000 undergrad. I don't think that will be the deal breaker for them.

I agree we can be in the discussion. our limited eyeballs is a negative though. but yes, winning a lot would help.

there are some schools with 4,000-6,000 undergrads in major conferences. (some were charter members). just no 3,000 undergrad schools that I can think of.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

I agree we can be in the discussion. our limited eyeballs is a negative though. but yes, winning a lot would help.

there are some schools with 4,000-6,000 undergrads in major conferences. (some were charter members). just no 3,000 undergrad schools that I can think of.

AI can help with that. Also, every game will look sold out on tv.

I’d add 1000 clowns and a school for clowning if it means joining the BE.

 

[Eight Legger]

I’d add 1000 clowns and a school for clowning if it means joining the BE.

I mean there's at least a few dozen of us on this board, so there's a start...

 

[AnnapSpider]

The East, it’s right in their conference name.

The point was meant regarding someone saying how lacrosse is a territorial game.
I know what conference they’re in.

 

[SFspidur]

The point was meant regarding someone saying how lacrosse is a territorial game.
I know what conference they’re in.

Sorry, I should know better than to attempt humor in your direction. My bad.

 

[Wood Hall]

The point was meant regarding someone saying how lacrosse is a territorial game.
I know what conference they’re in.

There are 77 DI men's lacrosse teams; 73 of them are east of the Mississippi. The only true "western" teams are Denver, Utah and Air Force. NCAA men's lacrosse is a territorial game, heavily concentrated in the Northeast and mid-Atlantic states, with several (Mercer, Jacksonville) in the deep South.

No SEC school sponsors lacrosse. Less than half of the Big Ten does, and only two (Ohio State, Michigan) of them are in the conference's traditional footprint. It might be the most regional sport the NCAA sponsors, even more so than hockey.

 

[8legs1dream]

Universities with much more success than us over the past decade or so are seemingly still not sniffing a Big East invite. With the P4 arms race and 20++ team conferences I think the Big East will have to expand at some point to at least try to keep up. The hope is that when that point comes we have strung together as many successful seasons as possible to warrant a hard look and honest consideration.

 

[UR Fan 2]

NIL craziness....with #'s

Georgia QB Jaden Rashada sues Florida coach Billy Napier, among others, over botched $13.85M NIL deal

Also named in the bombshell suit are a former Gators football staffer as well as a prominent booster

www.cbssports.com

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Football - the SEC specifically - is a rogue state and will be the downfall of college sports.

 

[97spiderfan]

I think the biggest hurdle by far is enrollment.
no matter how good our basketball team does the next few years, I don't think the Big East is adding a school with 3,000 undergrads.

Butler, Creighton, Xavier and Providence all have in the 4000 undergrad range. They just added Butler and Xavier. I don't think out size is the issue. I think it is A. The quality of our basketball program and B. The size of our TV market that we bring to them that are the main determining factors.

 

[VT4700]

I agree we can be in the discussion. our limited eyeballs is a negative though. but yes, winning a lot would help.

there are some schools with 4,000-6,000 undergrads in major conferences. (some were charter members). just no 3,000 undergrad schools that I can think of.

Come on Sman....I enjoy your posts and agree with many of them, but if someone counters your size argument showing several Big East schools are in the 4000-6000 range, you can't reply with "but none have 3000" as if you were correct with your point. The Big East obviously did not accept most of these other schools because of their size. These, like Richmond, are small schools and there is very little difference in schools with 4-5000 students and our school with a little over 3000. Do you really think Providence, Xavier, Creighton, or Butler would not be in the Big East if they had maybe 1-2000 or so less students?

 

[AnnapSpider]

Sorry, I should know better than to attempt humor in your direction. My bad.

They’re have been serious comments with similar remarks. I’m sorry I missed your humor but not your snide remark.

 

[SpiderTrap]

We need to start stringing together NCAA tournament bids if we want the Big East to begin to consider us. One NCAA bid in the last 12 years is not even close to what the Big East would be looking for if and when they expand.

At this point, anything is possible. But if Vegas were to put odds on it. My guess is they would say we have better odds of moving to the Patriot League for basketball at this point than the Big East.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Like many things in life, what will generate more profit will be the driving force in their decisions. I still think think that the Big East wanting to have a school that matches their conference's institutional profile as much as possible will be of preference to them.

What will generate more profit is simple - teams that win and make the NCAA tourney on a consistent basis. The Big East wants to hear 6-7-8-9 teams called on selection sunday - that is where the money lies. You do that consistently - then your TV rights go up, and the money flows. Teams that fit the insitutional profile - right now, they have UCONN who just won back to back titles. That is their institutional profile at this point - teams that focus on basketball and WIN A LOT.

 

[RichmondNative]

…have better odds of moving to the Patriot League for basketball at this point than the Big East.

With all the litigation that is happening and the fact that the Big 10 and SEC are dictating what the future of college athletics is going to be, there is no doubt in my mind that UR is not going to have a choice. There is going to be a money driven super league and then I imagine there will be a second tier where UR will land. It could be that the A10 positions itself at the top of this other tier, but the dream of winning a D1 National Championship is basically over. Just a matter of time. The gap is going to be a chasm.

 

[MrTbone]

I think the economics of this move cannot be overlooked. Schools are constantly trying to get more attention in markets that will deliver students who can pay a large percentage of the cost of attending their schools in order to insure that they can also allow students to attend who cannot afford the full cost. About a decade ago, maybe a little more, Pitt put a full court press on the Philadelphia area because they saw the wealth in their area shrinking and they wanted to build relationships with schools in wealthier areas. They gave out tons of scholarships in order to start attracting them. It worked as new pipelines were created and their ranking has surpassed that of Penn State. South Carolina has done something similar whereby they have been giving a lot of scholarships to northern students with the caveat they maintain a B average freshman year. Lots of kids go down, party, and lose the scholarship which causes them to either leave school or pay the higher rate. Alabama and LSU have now been targeting the northeast.

My point in saying this is that playing in the A-10 allows us to be in markets with money, whether it’s NYC, Philly, Boston, NOVA, or Charlotte. The Southern Conference offers no major market. The CAA, especially where it’s headed, does not expose us to many markets for rich kids. Villanova is really the only school in a major market. Joining the Patriot League once again gives them access to the same wealthy markets that the Atlantic 10 plays in. This is why I’m not worried about them jumping ship on the A-10. I think football was just an outlier for their overall positioning of our school. This move brings football back in line with our other sports. I’m not saying it’s right or wrong, I just think this is how our president sees it.

While I understand your argument it feels like a stretch to me that this would in fact play out the way described. I don’t think that playing football in PL geographic markets boosts URs visibility to prospective students in a meaningful way. UR already targets these populations and we generally have mindshare for prospective students who are also considering Bucknell or Georgetown or Colgate etc anyway.

If the argument is “increased exposure” then I suspect the better bet is to be in a league where you maximize your playoff chances. I don’t see that the PL offers that but I’m admittedly not close to FCS football or how competitive the PL is.

I think it’s ultimately about academic alignment and stability. I’m not in love with it but I certainly get it.

 

[SpiderTrap]

While I understand your argument it feels like a stretch to me that this would in fact play out the way described. I don’t think that playing football in PL geographic markets boosts URs visibility to prospective students in a meaningful way. UR already targets these populations and we generally have mindshare for prospective students who are also considering Bucknell or Georgetown or Colgate etc anyway.

If the argument is “increased exposure” then I suspect the better bet is to be in a league where you maximize your playoff chances. I don’t see that the PL offers that but I’m admittedly not close to FCS football or how competitive the PL is.

I think it’s ultimately about academic alignment and stability. I’m not in love with it but I certainly get it.

I guess the next question is - what excuse can we use if we join the Patriot league and don't have success there. Right now - we can say - that school's enrollment and alumni base is much larger, or they don't have the academic standards that we have, or they have more local support, etc. What will we rely on with like schools all in a similar situation in the Patriot league.

 

[KE Spider]

Not going to make any excuses. Going to continue our commitment to playoff football. No reduction in resources per Prez Hallock.

Only question is impact on recruiting, but you win, you get.

 

[PASpider]

Like many things in life, what will generate more profit will be the driving force in their decisions. I still think think that the Big East wanting to have a school that matches their conference's institutional profile as much as possible will be of preference to them.

VCU & Wichita - These schools are a stark opposite in the make-up of the Big East schools today. UConn is the only public school in the conference now, but it seems like they are more the exception than the rule given their history with the Big East and the fact that they have historically been one of the top basketball programs in the country

Gonzaga or other WCC schools - Sure, I guess it would be possible that schools will be willing to have this long travel, and we're seeing it more now with teams like Stanford going to fly to Miami for a conference game. In basketball, though it may be harder to justify without football level money revenue. WCC is also improving a lot as a conference too and Gonzaga has done quite well success wise being in it.

San Diego St or other MWC schools - Travel like above and also I imagine the football element would be deal-breakers for them and wanting to remain at FBS level.

Wake Forest, Boston College, Syracuse - If the ACC implodes and if these schools fall on the short-end of the stick with football realignment, would they go back to the Big East? Not sure if they would give up their dream for top flight football and don't think Big East will change its basketball-centric perspective.

Dayton, SLU - Certainly in the same boat as us. Would think Dayton has the best chance, sans Gonzaga, at the Big East, but would be competing with the Xavier market.

Big East certainly doesn't need to expand out of necessity for maintaining conference stability. It will likely be out of pressure from TV network contracts to get into newer markets to increase viewership. So if/when that time comes, I hope Richmond will have strung a few very good seasons together because we have other external factors in our favor (geography, school profile, etc)



Butler and Providence college have about 4,000 undergrad. Xavier is at about 5000 undergrad. I don't think that will be the deal breaker for them.

Butler brings the Indianapolis market and they’ve had a lot of success including 2 ncaa tourney finals. We need more than just a few years in a row in the tournament to reach the level they did. We are not even the main team in the Richmond market, we can’t get students to regularly attend games when they aren’t atop the conference standings, and our alumni base is small compared to other schools. I’ve been told countless times that the reason we don’t have good apparel in our book store is due to our lack of potential buyers. Looks like Dayton and St. Louis would be ahead of us anyway, which makes sense given St. Louis’ Catholic affiliation. UR on Hold

 

[spiderstudent17]

Butler brings the Indianapolis market and they’ve had a lot of success including 2 ncaa tourney finals. We need more than just a few years in a row in the tournament to reach the level they did. We are not even the main team in the Richmond market, we can’t get students to regularly attend games when they aren’t atop the conference standings, and our alumni base is small compared to other schools. I’ve been told countless times that the reason we don’t have good apparel in our book store is due to our lack of potential buyers. Looks like Dayton and St. Louis would be ahead of us anyway, which makes sense given St. Louis’ Catholic affiliation. UR on Hold

I hear you PA and agree with you and other posters above that we need to have NCAA tournament success. The way I think about it is there are several factors that the Big East likely considers (basketball success being at the top) that can be broken down into things that can be changed by a school and not changed. I maintain that the Big East would prefer having schools be private, basketball-centric, strong academic, in the geographic region, and if also a Catholic university that's also a bonus. Those are things a school really can't change, other than academics but even that is done over years/decades. Fortunately, we check 4 out of those 5 boxes. VCU for instance, only checks 2 out of those 5 boxes.

The other things the Big East wants is basketball success and strong viewership. Again, while I agree that is the biggest thing we can improve upon and lacking compared to other teams wanting Big East invites, those are things we can actually work on changing. If we use the NIL & transfer portal well, we're 2-3 players away from contending for A10 championships and NCAA tournament every year. Same with attendance. I don't think they should only look at how our attendance is now in the A10 (which is towards the top and one of the best in the country for a school our size) but also how the Big East brand will inherently improve that. We had a sold out arena and raucous crowd against a top 25 Dayton and of course VCU. You don't think we won't sellout arenas, playing top ranked teams like Connecticut, Villanova, Providence, Xavier, and Creighton? Yes, VCU has more viewership too because they are the bigger school, but google shows the greater Richmond metropolitan area has 1.35 million people. Many fans fall in this neutral area that will support the more high-profile or successful team. That's another benefit we have going for us. Richmond is a growing city and currently #56 in media market. A lot of potential to tap into and also expand more into the Virginia area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

If the Big East were to expand by 1-2 teams, I don't think we would be in the top of that list. But you see the Power 5 schools continuing to grow and likely form 20+ team conferences. I see the Big East getting to 16 teams at some point and maybe even UConn will leave if they get into the Big 12 or ACC.

 

[97spiderfan]

I hear you PA and agree with you and other posters above that we need to have NCAA tournament success. The way I think about it is there are several factors that the Big East likely considers (basketball success being at the top) that can be broken down into things that can be changed by a school and not changed. I maintain that the Big East would prefer having schools be private, basketball-centric, strong academic, in the geographic region, and if also a Catholic university that's also a bonus. Those are things a school really can't change, other than academics but even that is done over years/decades. Fortunately, we check 4 out of those 5 boxes. VCU for instance, only checks 2 out of those 5 boxes.

The other things the Big East wants is basketball success and strong viewership. Again, while I agree that is the biggest thing we can improve upon and lacking compared to other teams wanting Big East invites, those are things we can actually work on changing. If we use the NIL & transfer portal well, we're 2-3 players away from contending for A10 championships and NCAA tournament every year. Same with attendance. I don't think they should only look at how our attendance is now in the A10 (which is towards the top and one of the best in the country for a school our size) but also how the Big East brand will inherently improve that. We had a sold out arena and raucous crowd against a top 25 Dayton and of course VCU. You don't think we won't sellout arenas, playing top ranked teams like Connecticut, Villanova, Providence, Xavier, and Creighton? Yes, VCU has more viewership too because they are the bigger school, but google shows the greater Richmond metropolitan area has 1.35 million people. Many fans fall in this neutral area that will support the more high-profile or successful team. That's another benefit we have going for us. Richmond is a growing city and currently #56 in media market. A lot of potential to tap into and also expand more into the Virginia area.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_television_stations_in_North_America_by_media_market

If the Big East were to expand by 1-2 teams, I don't think we would be in the top of that list. But you see the Power 5 schools continuing to grow and likely form 20+ team conferences. I see the Big East getting to 16 teams at some point and maybe even UConn will leave if they get into the Big 12 or ACC.

UConn football program is garbage and football is the almost the sole reason a P5 program looks to add other schools. I don't see the ACC or Big 12 looking at UConn unless UConn makes a huge investment in their football program to make it better.

 

[8legs1dream]

UConn football program is garbage and football is the almost the sole reason a P5 program looks to add other schools. I don't see the ACC or Big 12 looking at UConn unless UConn makes a huge investment in their football program to make it better.

And one has to wonder, if they did crank up the investment level in the football program how would basketball be affected?

 

[97spiderfan]

And one has to wonder, if they did crank up the investment level in the football program how would basketball be affected?

See ODU, Temple, UMass. Universities that are thought as "basketball" schools, who none the less, sacrificed their hoops program for their football programs and diminished both in the process.

Have to wonder, the fate of Temple basketball and the A-10 both had Temple just remained in the A-10. Temple was the flagship of the A-10 for many years.

 

[spiderstudent17]

UConn football program is garbage and football is the almost the sole reason a P5 program looks to add other schools. I don't see the ACC or Big 12 looking at UConn unless UConn makes a huge investment in their football program to make it better.

I agree and certainly think this point is valid since UConn would be in a P5 conference by now if their football program was any good. I do think that UConn is in this grey area though because their basketball program is that good. 5 titles in the last 20 years. 6 in the last 25 NCAA tournaments. That’s blue blood level good. Football is what dominates the market and decision making, but I can see an ACC taking them in once other schools get poached by the Big 10/SEC. Big 12 not so much since it’s already an elite basketball conference too. Like us, getting a basketball bump by big East brand, UConn would benefit from the power 5 brand to help bolster their football from a recruiting, alumni engagement, and revenue standpoint.

And one has to wonder, if they did crank up the investment level in the football program how would basketball be affected?

I don’t think it will be as affected much as people may believe. At this point, I’d argue that UConn is the top basketball program to be at in the country right now and it’s a top 5 or 6 basketball program all time. The conference UConn would want to join (Big12 or ACC) also has an excellent basketball reputation. So even if they invest less money in basketball for football, they should still have no problem attracting the best talent in the country.

 

[97spiderfan]

Valid points regarding the ACC. They just took SMU, Cal, and Stanford, none of which are football powerhouses. They are doing this out of survival, as I think they are hedging when they lose Florida State and possibly Clemson. Granted UConn football program is literally one of the worst FBS programs around, so perhaps they go for to upgrade their signature sport, which is basketball.

It just really sucks that FBS Football is what is driving all of this and the impact it has on basketball programs is clearly secondary, all other sports are barely a consideration.

 

[spiderstudent17]

I saved this tweet when I saw it a year ago. I hope someone in our admissions or administration sees this and understands that athletics can, not only co-exist with strong academics, it actually can help improve the reputation and student interest of a school. Many 17-18 year olds, like myself back in the day, want a holistic, well-rounded college experience, which includes supporting high level athletics. A lot of school pride and alumni engagement/donations also comes from strong athletics as well. That’s why I think UR should view it as an investment in the university by focusing on elevating our athletics and giving more resources to athletics such as fully funding scholarships, enhancing facilities, or even donating to NIL directly.

Strong athletics helps the University also get a lot more money in licensing gear agreements or free publicity. Butler got over $600 million in free publicity from their 2010 national championship run. Same with George Mason in their final four run.

NCAA Tournament Run Can Mean Billions For a School

Yes, that's billions, with a 'B'.

www.nbcnews.com

 

[urmite]

View embedded media

I saved this tweet when I saw it a year ago. I hope someone in our admissions or administration sees this and understands that athletics can, not only co-exist with strong academics, it actually can help improve the reputation and student interest of a school. Many 17-18 year olds, like myself back in the day, want a holistic, well-rounded college experience, which includes supporting high level athletics. A lot of school pride and alumni engagement/donations also comes from strong athletics as well. That’s why I think UR should view it as an investment in the university by focusing on elevating our athletics and giving more resources to athletics such as fully funding scholarships, enhancing facilities, or even donating to NIL directly.

Strong athletics helps the University also get a lot more money in licensing gear agreements or free publicity. Butler got over $600 million in free publicity from their 2010 national championship run. Same with George Mason in their final four run.

NCAA Tournament Run Can Mean Billions For a School

Yes, that's billions, with a 'B'.

www.nbcnews.com

Only thing I question is why GMU over Nova in 2011, not GMU over UConn 2006?

 

[AnnapSpider]

Villanova is a FCS football program , but is a Power 5 basketball program.
You can have your cake and eat it too.

 

[PASpider]

Villanova is a FCS football program , but is a Power 5 basketball program.
You can have your cake and eat it too.

Villanova has more than double the amount of students we have and over 10,000 walking around its campus if you count grad students. They have a basketball tradition that goes back decades including a national championship, 1 national title loss, 3 Final Fours, and 10 Elite 8 finishes…before the 2000s! The only thing we have in common with them at the moment is that we have FCS football and DI basketball.

 

[AnnapSpider]

Villanova has more than double the amount of students we have and over 10,000 walking around its campus if you count grad students. They have a basketball tradition that goes back decades including a national championship, 1 national title loss, 3 Final Fours, and 10 Elite 8 finishes…before the 2000s! The only thing we have in common with them at the moment is that we have FCS football and DI basketball.

Does the number of students matter?
If we triple our enrollment will that help us get
to another Sweet 16.

 

[PASpider]

While I understand your argument it feels like a stretch to me that this would in fact play out the way described. I don’t think that playing football in PL geographic markets boosts URs visibility to prospective students in a meaningful way. UR already targets these populations and we generally have mindshare for prospective students who are also considering Bucknell or Georgetown or Colgate etc anyway.

If the argument is “increased exposure” then I suspect the better bet is to be in a league where you maximize your playoff chances. I don’t see that the PL offers that but I’m admittedly not close to FCS football or how competitive the PL is.

I think it’s ultimately about academic alignment and stability. I’m not in love with it but I certainly get it.

Yes, we do have a lot of students who apply to some or all of the schools you mentioned. However, while we do have some “mindshare,” as a teacher at a prestigious northern school, my 10th grade students don’t know anything about Richmond. They are well aware of Patriot League and Ivy League schools, however, based on their proximity as well as the fact that a relative may have attended. It’s only when they start doing some research in 11th grade that they typically learn about Richmond. I know the concern some have is that while UR is known in Virginia, they wonder if employers will recognize the significance of a UR degree in the north and other parts of the country if they themselves have never heard of it until 11th grade. Added exposure couldn’t hurt in terms of winning over a few more students and families with $ to the school. (Again, I’m not saying it’s right, but that is a trend among colleges.) More FCS wins won’t move the needle. (We won a title and nobody knows about it but UR alums.) As you said, academic alignment is an important factor in this equation as well.

 

[PASpider]

Does the number of students matter?
If we triple our enrollment will that help us get
to another Sweet 16.

More students = more fans, more tickets sold, more merch sold, more money being donated to the basketball program and NIL, etc. In the end, we would become more competitive with schools that have bigger budgets. So yes, having a bigger enrollment would give us a better chance of reaching the Sweet 16. How many schools with 3,000 students reach the Sweet 16 on a regular basis?

 

[urfan1]

Add a bigger enrollment leads to more alumni, a bigger base from whom to obtain donations.

 

[8legs1dream]

I don’t think it will be as affected much as people may believe. At this point, I’d argue that UConn is the top basketball program to be at in the country right now and it’s a top 5 or 6 basketball program all time. The conference UConn would want to join (Big12 or ACC) also has an excellent basketball reputation. So even if they invest less money in basketball for football, they should still have no problem attracting the best talent in the country.

Well, if it were to happen I'm sure they would put it out there loud and proud that the basketball budget was not being touched, and if that were true then sure basketball would not be affected. But I suspect that the investment needed in football to make a serious impact would require even a little trimming of the fat on the basketball side. If that were the case, I would be curious to see how it played out.