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Coaching Comparison

For those of you in the "fire Mooney" crowd, please, either post something new and original or else step aside. I happen to believe a change is needed but I realize that It's not going to happen soon regardless of your protestations. It's gotten quite boring to read and may be driving people away from this site, me included.
 
I think it is being mistaken that I am saying I love Mooney and will forever support him. That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm just looking, if every thread is going to turn into anti-Mooney, that the stats/facts that are brought up are just brought up in total and not have any cherry picked. The best way to win a debate is to not let your opponent devalue your arguments and points by proving they aren't entirely factually correct.
But the thread obviously began as a pro-Mooney one..."if you think Schmidt is good, then you must think mooney is too." We are t idiots. So if you dont want the anti mooney crowd to speak out, dont post silly stuff like this thread.
 
For those of you in the "fire Mooney" crowd, please, either post something new and original or else step aside. I happen to believe a change is needed but I realize that It's not going to happen soon regardless of your protestations. It's gotten quite boring to read and may be driving people away from this site, me included.
We are responding to the original thread which tries to say Mooney is doing just as well as Schmidt. What? We cant counter that thought?
 
For those of you in the "fire Mooney" crowd, please, either post something new and original or else step aside. I happen to believe a change is needed but I realize that It's not going to happen soon regardless of your protestations. It's gotten quite boring to read and may be driving people away from this site, me included.
Me too. Sad.
 
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looking at Schmidt's career, he didn't do very much to even get the SBU job. he was 8 games below .500 in 6 years at Robert Morris. finally had a good year his last season there with a 9-9 conference record in the NEC and a cupcake OOC schedule. guess there wasn't much competition for the SBU job and the mess that it had become.

he's certainly does a very good job bringing their program back to respectability and then some.
 
But the thread obviously began as a pro-Mooney one..."if you think Schmidt is good, then you must think mooney is too." We are t idiots. So if you dont want the anti mooney crowd to speak out, dont post silly stuff like this thread.

Negative Mooney thread: Positive Mooney people get bashed.

Positive Mooney thread: Positive Mooney people get bashed.

The expression is raining on other people's parade. How many times can the same post be made about disliking Mooney. I've only been here about two weeks and I've already noticed how tired and played out it is. There can't be a conversation on any topic without firing Mooney being brought up. Even in the NIT thread where Richmond was never even being mentioned firing Mooney was brought up...
 
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For those of you in the "fire Mooney" crowd, please, either post something new and original or else step aside. I happen to believe a change is needed but I realize that It's not going to happen soon regardless of your protestations. It's gotten quite boring to read and may be driving people away from this site, me included.
Most of us support the concept that you have every right to decide what you are going to do.
 
Most of us support the concept that you have every right to decide what you are going to do.

I agree with you. You guys have the right to post the same few points on threads to bring up a valid topic. But on the flipside we have the right to say we are annoyed at it invading every thread. Maybe we could make a specific "Mooney annoyances" thread?
 
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Schmidt's A-10 Win % the last 7 years (average) is 59.4%
Mooney's A-10 Win % the last 7 years (average) is 53.1%

Source: Each coach's wikipedia page

The above figures reflect an extended period of out material performance and indicate that St. Bonaventure is currently the superior program.

I refuse to argue with anyone who's willing to claim that St. Bonaventure job is half the job that Richmond is.....
 
Schmidt's A-10 Win % the last 7 years (average) is 59.4%
Mooney's A-10 Win % the last 7 years (average) is 53.1%

Source: Each coach's wikipedia page

The above figures reflect an extended period of out material performance and indicate that St. Bonaventure is currently the superior program.

I refuse to argue with anyone who's willing to claim that St. Bonaventure job is half the job that Richmond is.....
Yeah, but what is Mooney's winning percentage since he first started coaching 8-year-old kids 27 years ago?
 
Negative Mooney thread: Positive Mooney people get bashed.

Positive Mooney thread: Positive Mooney people get bashed.

The expression is raining on other people's parade. How many times can the same post be made about disliking Mooney. I've only been here about two weeks and I've already noticed how tired and played out it is. There can't be a conversation on any topic without firing Mooney being brought up. Even in the NIT thread where Richmond was never even being mentioned firing Mooney was brought up...

Ply, there is an ignore feature that you can use. I imagine it could be pretty useful for you. You won't see posts by people you ignore.
 
The last 7 years area a good measuring stick to me because that's the length of time Mooney has been earning $1.2 mil a year. We upped our investment in him and in the program tremendously after the Sweet 16, and we have almost nothing to show for it.
Well, we still have a nice arena.
 
Ply, there is an ignore feature that you can use. I imagine it could be pretty useful for you. You won't see posts by people you ignore.

Nah I don't want to ignore anybody. Everyone in here has made interesting and valid points. It is just when those points are made on every single post instead of just on one.

It would be like if we had a thread on mayonnaise vs. mustard and then in every other thread it ended up a mayonnaise vs. mustard discussion
 
Nah I don't want to ignore anybody. Everyone in here has made interesting and valid points. It is just when those points are made on every single post instead of just on one.

It would be like if we had a thread on mayonnaise vs. mustard and then in every other thread it ended up a mayonnaise vs. mustard discussion

I love Gulden Spicy Brown.

Also, Fire Mooney.
 
But the thread obviously began as a pro-Mooney one..."if you think Schmidt is good, then you must think mooney is too." We are t idiots. So if you dont want the anti mooney crowd to speak out, dont post silly stuff like this thread.
But the thread obviously began as a pro-Mooney one..."if you think Schmidt is good, then you must think mooney is too." We are t idiots. So if you dont want the anti mooney crowd to speak out, dont post silly stuff like this thread.
Sorry my "silly thread" didn't meet the standard of Mooney-bashing that is prerequisite to being permitted to starting a conversation.
 
Sorry my "silly thread" didn't meet the standard of Mooney-bashing that is prerequisite to being permitted to starting a conversation.
Your thread was silly because you used Coach A and Coach B as if we didn't know who u were describing, lol, which yes, was pretty silly.
 
I didn't know who coach A was. not sure how anyone would for sure without looking.
 
Coach A
274 wins
.532 winning percentage
.514 in-conference winning percentage
4 post-seasons in 11 years in current conference (2 NCAA Tournaments, 1 NIT, 1 CBI)
4 20 win seasons in 11 years in current conference

Coach B
255 wins
.551 winning percentage
.548 in-conference winning percentage
7 post-seasons in 13 years in current conference (2 NCAA Tournaments, 2 NITs, 3 CBI)
5 20 win seasons in 13 years in current conference

Can we please update this? Seriously, who cares about the CBI? My bad, who knows what the CBI is? I meant who cares about the NIT? Not me unless I'm into the movement for giving out trophies for participation.

I think come next Sunday I'll take the coach with 3 NCAA bids over the 2 in two less seasons.
 
Statistics, statistics. Schmidt out coaches Mooney every time we play them! BC just waiting for Bonnies season to be over me thinks.
 
I always find it funny that the very things most people bash Mooney for, are the same things that JW probably did quite well. 1) Rebounding - never a real issue with JW teams. 2) Defense - this was JW's calling card, play tough man to man defense and try to keep the game in the 50-60 range. 3) Recruiting - JW was pushing the UR limits with recruiting. So much so - this is the real reason both sides decided it was time to part ways when the Depaul job opened up. 4) Scheduling - we seem to worry every year about the schedule and will it be enough with Mooney. Not the case with JW - I believe in the 2004 NCAA year, we played a top 10-15 OOC schedule.

JW's fault was offense, where he basically relied on one player to carry the load (UNCW - Blizzard, and he rode Skrocki on the 2004 team), but when you play tough defense and have big guys who can rebound (Moliva, Steenberge, etc) - you can get by with this strategy. I never agreed with the argument that JW left the cupboard bare - I think the athletics and school administration played a part in that as well. And I think that was the first sign that UR was not committed to athletics and basketball. Not to mention - at the time of hiring Mooney, he was essentially an Air Force assistant. He only was head coach 1 year at AF going 18-12 and many people will remember in Chris's early days at UR - I believe he was still learning how to be a head coach.

As I have said before - I think CM has turned into a fine head coach and he has had success at UR. He is exactly the person you want as the face of the program, he recruits good kids and good students, and he is good to the community. But at some point - you got to win games and you got to dance in the tourney. I don't even think a Princeton grad would argue that.
 
I always find it funny that the very things most people bash Mooney for, are the same things that JW probably did quite well. 1) Rebounding - never a real issue with JW teams. 2) Defense - this was JW's calling card, play tough man to man defense and try to keep the game in the 50-60 range. 3) Recruiting - JW was pushing the UR limits with recruiting. So much so - this is the real reason both sides decided it was time to part ways when the Depaul job opened up. 4) Scheduling - we seem to worry every year about the schedule and will it be enough with Mooney. Not the case with JW - I believe in the 2004 NCAA year, we played a top 10-15 OOC schedule.

JW's fault was offense, where he basically relied on one player to carry the load (UNCW - Blizzard, and he rode Skrocki on the 2004 team), but when you play tough defense and have big guys who can rebound (Moliva, Steenberge, etc) - you can get by with this strategy. I never agreed with the argument that JW left the cupboard bare - I think the athletics and school administration played a part in that as well. And I think that was the first sign that UR was not committed to athletics and basketball. Not to mention - at the time of hiring Mooney, he was essentially an Air Force assistant. He only was head coach 1 year at AF going 18-12 and many people will remember in Chris's early days at UR - I believe he was still learning how to be a head coach.

As I have said before - I think CM has turned into a fine head coach and he has had success at UR. He is exactly the person you want as the face of the program, he recruits good kids and good students, and he is good to the community. But at some point - you got to win games and you got to dance in the tourney. I don't even think a Princeton grad would argue that.

Yep.
 
Reading back through these posts 2 years ago is those who try to offer up some defense of Mooney always end up getting burned.
 
we disagree on JW. blame the administration if you want, but a very low percentage of his recruits had really successful careers here, or anywhere for that matter. he took one kid that had already committed another school. he had to hire another kid's high school coach, and that one came with off court baggage. but yeah, he did well with JB recruits.
 
I hate the argument he did well with JB recruits because you could say the same about JB - he took his team to the NCAA with Dooley recruits. You have to give the coach some credit for getting them there, even if they didn't recruit them. And saying none of his recruits panned out is false. Moliva had a good career under Wainwright and suffered under Mooney not only from a style point of view and fit, but also injury. Peter Thomas - he was a JW recruited walk-on and actually turned out to be a good player for UR. Daon Merritt - was doing well at UR, then off the court troubles lead to transfer to south alabama where that team went to NCAA with him averaging 10 points and 4 assists a game. Andres Sandoval became a bench player for Dayton and averaged 20 minutes and 6 points. So not a stud, I think we would be begging this year for 6 points off our bench. And of course the biggest one of all that never made it to UR - AD Vassallo. He only scored 1800 points at VA Tech and was their 5th leading scorer of all time when he left. And I believe he would have been the next guy Wainwright built the offense around like Blilzzard and Skrocki.
 
I said "really successful". AD Vassallo is the only difference maker and JW couldn't get him on campus. 3 years of recruiting and you're argument is a bunch of role players and a guy who wasn't accepted?

I absolutely give him credit for winning with JB players. but some like to give him credit for great recruiting. he failed in recruiting. he hired a kid's HS coach to land the only one better than a role player. and he absolutely left the cupboard a mess.
 
I said "really successful". AD Vassallo is the only difference maker and JW couldn't get him on campus. 3 years of recruiting and you're argument is a bunch of role players and a guy who wasn't accepted?

I absolutely give him credit for winning with JB players. but some like to give him credit for great recruiting. he failed in recruiting. he hired a kid's HS coach to land the only one better than a role player. and he absolutely left the cupboard a mess.
Trying to remember, was Vassallo the kid who it was rumored would have been accepted if he had 1 more correct answer on his Verbal SAT? (and was an ESL student?)
 
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It's problematic when you are caught in the maelstrom of having to defend why CM is a better coach than JW. Not a good sign.
 
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I’d take JW over Mooney and I am barely old enough to remember much of JW’s teams.
 
I'm not comparing JW to Mooney. just outside of a couple highlights, I don't look back on JW's tenure very fondly. it ended bad.
 
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I would like have liked the JW experiment to continue. We complain on here all the time about recruiting and JW was pushing the envelope there, but I think because of differences between administration and JW - never got the chance to see it through.

But looking back, and hindsight is always 20-20, that probably should have been our first clue that the school administration at UR was not going to prioritize sports and student-athletes. The AD Vassallo recruiting fiasco highlighted that perfectly. UR wouldn't accept him because they didn't like his foreign transcripts. Meanwhile - VA Tech (not a bad school by any means) had no problem taking him and he turned out to be an all ACC player.
 
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