Chris Mooney vs Dick Tarrant

[SpiderRick]

I just thought I would take a short look back at the numbers.

Chris Mooney:

10 years head coach (at Richmond), post season)

two NCAA bids, in a multi-bid league
maybe one NIT bid


Dick Tarrant:

12 years head coach at Richmond

five NCAA bids, in a mostly/almost always one-bid league
four NIT bids

How lucky we were to have Dick Tarrant!

 

[SpiderK]

Yes we were Rick. Wish he had coached another 10 years.

 

[Stonewall D]

The Great One, Dick Tarrant, put UR basketball on the map. He has been a mentor and resource to every UR coach we have had, including John Beilein and Chris Mooney.

 

[MrTbone]

Yep. It was way easier to win in the caa than in the a10. A10
Gets multi bids because it's an exponentially tougher league. If we had to go up against a Xavier equivalent year after year in the caa, tarrant would not have hit on 5 of 12.

 

[8legs]

When I read the title of this thread I thought it would be about how Chris Mooney could take Dick Tarrant in a game of one-on-one.

 

[SpiderK]

TBone, please!! that is lame buddy. Tarrant was beating 2 to 5 seeds in the NCAA with those CAA teams. Beating Charles Barkley, David Robinson Chuck Person, defending national champions, countless ACC teams. He could have coached at any level.

 

[MrTbone]

So K, your argument is that the CAA is equivalent to the a10. Talk about lame.

My comment is not a detraction of tarrant, Hes a fantastic coach, but I think non-contextual analysis like this is weak.

 

[MolivaManiac]

I also think we had a better fanbase in the 80s than we do currently. Apples and oranges.

 

[MrTbone]

That I agree with. Attendance averaged 7300 per game while I was there late 80s to early 90s.

Student attendance was generally higher and much more consistent.

 

[wr70beh]

Originally posted by MolivaManiac:
I also think we had a better fanbase in the 80s than we do currently. Apples and oranges.

A different fanbase, too. We drew more from the community than we do now. Now it's mostly students, groups of kids (teams, youth groups, etc.) that can't get into the VCU games, older alumni, and those that show up depending on who we're playing. If we're playing VCU or GW or someone good, those seats are filled with casual fans. If we're playing IUPUI or some other nobody, those seats are empty.

 

[SpiderK]

TBone. I did not compare the two leagues. We played in the league we were in and accomplished much in that ten years. You are the one that dismissed it because it was the CAA and not the A-10.

 

[SpiderPlant]

Don't let up MM.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

Could it be that the fan base was more involved because the product was better? You decide....

 

[Eight Legger]

Everyone had a better fanbase in 1985 than in 2015. There's a lot more competition for people's time now, so comparing the two is pointless. I do hope we find a way to build on this year's late run and ability to win the season series with VCU by picking up some fans for next year. And drawing better crowds in the home OOC schedule than we usually do.

 

[PhiDeltaSpider]

MrT. Pure speculation on my part (but based on my observations of our many coaches over the years). If Tarrant had coached in a 4-5 bid league like the Atlantic 10 for 12 years, my guess is that he would have us qualified for the NCAA's 10 if those years. He was that good a coach. The fact that he won 5 CAA championships in 12 years is quite an accomplishment in itself. Tarrant would have a been a major success anywhere he had chosen to coach.

 

[MrTbone]

Originally posted by SpiderK:
TBone. I did not compare the two leagues. We played in the league we were in and accomplished much in that ten years. You are the one that dismissed it because it was the CAA and not the A-10.

No, you didn't compare the leagues which is my whole point, you ignored that in calling my post lame. If you want to compare coaches, that's fine, but at least adjust for the level of competition.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

Something for consideration - Davidson was predicted to finish 12th in A-10 in their first year.......

 

[MrTbone]

PDS, speculation is great, it requires no evidence. Only Xavier accomplished 10 bids in 12 seasons. That's very elite company. Possible? Sure, Xavier did it. Likely? No. Just looking at teams who have been in the a10 the last 12 years, the next closest comparison in a10 is temple with 6. GW and SJU had 4.

I respect tarrant a ton but you speculation is at the very far end of the bell curve.

 

[SpiderK]

So TBone, you are saying what then? That we have been better in the A-10? With two bids to NCAA and maybe 1 to NIT as apposed to 5 NCAA bids and 4 NIT bids, I am just trying to understand your argument. Anyway, you are right, there is no comparison. Yet

 

[SpiderGuy]

Originally posted by PhiDeltaSpider:
MrT. Pure speculation on my part (but based on my observations of our many coaches over the years). If Tarrant had coached in a 4-5 bid league like the Atlantic 10 for 12 years, my guess is that he would have us qualified for the NCAA's 10 if those years. He was that good a coach. The fact that he won 5 CAA championships in 12 years is quite an accomplishment in itself. Tarrant would have a been a major success anywhere he had chosen to coach.

Bingo!


Quite frankly, I don't think it's fair to CM to be compared in a post to Coach Tarrant because CM is not the coach that Tarrant was, and CM's accomplishments don't jell when put side by side with Coach Tarrant's (regardless of qualifiers that some might want to use as a leveling device).

 

[SpiderK]

Eight and Mo are right about the fan bases at least as far as attendance goes. So many games are on TV now, that fewer make the effort or expense to attend the games. Beating Auburn may have been the first time I saw the Spiders on TV. I know it was rare.

 

[Anachnoid]

Mm wearing FRS coat?

 

[spider23]

Tough comparison. Problem is Tarrant started at UR with 25 more years of coaching/scouting/real life experience than Mooney. Would have to compare Tarrant to Mooney in another 15 years or so. I will say that every game that you watched a DT team play you expected to win unless you were going up against Jordan, Bird and Lebron. Mooney has done a very good job - taking over a gutted team, but seems to have lost his fastball the last 3-4 years. Yes, had some key injuries, but so does everyone - that is why you over recruit. 2016 class will be very key to the future. I think Mooney needs to improve his ability to adjust to the landscape and demand that guys improve in the off season. That is something that I see sorely lacking with our program.

 

[FrontRoyalSpider]

I hope the RC basketball court is named "Tarrant Court" before he goes to coach in the "Pearly Gates Invitational"!
This post was edited on 3/14 7:13 PM by FrontRoyalSpider

 

[MrTbone]

Originally posted by SpiderK:
So TBone, you are saying what then? That we have been better in the A-10? With two bids to NCAA and maybe 1 to NIT as apposed to 5 NCAA bids and 4 NIT bids, I am just trying to understand your argument. Anyway, you are right, there is no comparison. Yet

K, are you having that hard a time understanding my post? I'm guessing if you don't get it by now that a third explanation isn't going to help.

where are the other sane people, I can't be the only fan who considers this comparison to lack context.

 

[SpiderK]

T, it's no big deal anyway. Past doesn't matter, all about where we go from here. Let's recruit 4 shooters for 2016, beat the sheep, win the A-10 and go to the NCAA for many years. I know we all agree on that.

 

[MrTbone]

Agreed. I'm not trying to be a jackass, I just am into data and analytics and believe that comparisons should adjust for bias. I will now shut my trap and await an nit invite.

 

[spider fan]

If you really want get down to it Dick Tarrant was a U.S. Marine and as many will say once a Marine always a Marine. The training he got in the Marine Corps shaped his life and coaching career.

 

[PhiDeltaSpider]

Sorry, MrT, but speculation requires evidence. The evidence is based on an individual's observations, and since it lacks your "context" as you say, that is why it is called speculation and has no validity other than as fodder for conversation. I suggest that the speculation is only as valid as the knowledge of the speculator and the quality of his observations. Therefore, I stand by my previous "speculations." Feel free to challenge; it's what makes these boards and conversations fun.

 

[Stonewall D]

Dick Tarrant was a master of offensive/ defensive substitution. He also showed how to win at UR. He had a slow down ball control system. He emphasized ball control and disciplined shot taking. He would never have had bigs taking 3 pointers or running with the ball. Why for example does Deion Taylor take 3 pointers? I think Mooney let's his players play more than Tarrant ever did.

 

[WebSpinner]

loved DT and he did a fabulous job of turning our program around and having success. comparing today's deal with the caa deal is apples and oranges. think both are really good coaches and what it comes down to is players.

 

[SpiderRick]

Originally posted by spider23:
Tough comparison. Problem is Tarrant started at UR with 25 more years of coaching/scouting/real life experience than Mooney. Would have to compare Tarrant to Mooney in another 15 years or so. I will say that every game that you watched a DT team play you expected to win unless you were going up against Jordan, Bird and Lebron. Mooney has done a very good job - taking over a gutted team, but seems to have lost his fastball the last 3-4 years. Yes, had some key injuries, but so does everyone - that is why you over recruit. 2016 class will be very key to the future. I think Mooney needs to improve his ability to adjust to the landscape and demand that guys improve in the off season. That is something that I see sorely lacking with our program.

Vast majority of Tarrant's coaching experience was in high school, and if my memory isn't failing me, he took over our program at the last minute as an interim coach. Mooney had one year head coaching at a major university.

 

[WebSpinner]

bottom line is we have been very fortunate with both guys, the rest of our coaches, with few exceptions, JB, MP, have been wanting.

 

[Stonewall D]

+1

 

[72Spider]

Who is MP?

 

[urfan1]

Fans make sports comparisons all the time. Some reasonable and some not. As much as i love DT, not sure he would be as successful in this environment, but then his system was very similar to what Butler runs now and they seem to be doing OK.

 

[wr70beh]

Malcolm Pitt?

 

[WebSpinner]

yep, coached our only undefeated basketball team and 72, you only thought he was a baseball coach.....

 

[72Spider]

Know all about him as basketball coach. Just didn't think back to coaches prior to Lew Mills. He used to talk all the time about the 1935 undefeated team.

 

[9Legs]

Dick Tarrant put UR on the basketball map period!!!! He started with nothing! No prior post season appearances or basketball tradition! How would you like to be hired as the "interim coach" ? All he did in his first year with a bunch of mediocre player was go to the NIT! He played the hand he was dealt. Assembled a great staff that could develop players. He gave candid interviews, had a great radio show where he actually offered meaningful analysis as to a players limitations and strengths. No sugar coating or coach speak. Wasn't afraid to play anybody anywhere. Could get big games played USC, Oregon on the road. Played in the Stanford tournament and won. His reputation brought good teams to the Robins Center for the Central Fidelity Classic. Bottom line, he was respected and feared by opponent coaches. Played in the TDIT against UVA and Tech when they were nationally ranked in the 80's. During his tenure, people nationally knew Dick Tarrant. I can remember getting on a ski lift in Colorado in 1988 and this guy from Indiana got on saw my Spider hat and said "I can't believe I have to spend the next 10 minutes of my life with you"! Enough said! I hope Chris Mooney reaches the top of the mountain some day!