Can money truly buy you happiness in the form of a collegiate sports team?

[Anachnid]

Uva received $13 million from two donors to buy football players. Results to be seen.
And this leads to the question how much money leads to the intended result?
The question then needed to be asked of our own men’s basketball situation is how much money was spent for this mess?
At some point and not really here but in big monied programs failure is going to fall on the well paid players and
my personal belief is it could get ugly.

 

[Eight Legger]

Duke just spent $8M for the Tulane quarterback. Impressive, but I'm not sure it will get them to the playoffs. Seems like basketball should be the easiest sport to make a major impact with a few well-placed signings, but ultimately every fan base but one is going to be disappointed with the end results.

 

[RichmondNative]

Duke just spent $8M for the Tulane quarterback. Impressive, but I'm not sure it will get them to the playoffs. Seems like basketball should be the easiest sport to make a major impact with a few well-placed signings, but ultimately every fan base but one is going to be disappointed with the end results.

I thought the same thing, but Duke spending 8 mil on a QB is counter to that thought -definitely not a championship winning investment. A fool and his money soon part is the only thing that comes to mind.

 

[gospidersgo]

Maybe the big donors are buying access, etc. and not necessarily just wins?

 

[UR Fan 2]

If Queally buys us a National Championship in either Men's or Women's BB, it will provide me happiness. So yes.

 

[72Spider]

Spending $2 mil on a non player hasn't worked out so well

 

[Wood Hall]

Ask Phil Knight. He purchased an entire athletic department.

I expect UVa would get more long-term bang for their bucks had those boosters donated to program enhancement or facilities upgrades, rather than what are essentially salaries that must be paid again and again.

Other's mileage may vary (OMMV), but I will never donate to an NIL program, at UR or anywhere. I will donate to funding drives for new or improved facilities, or endowed scholarships, or the like; they are forever and do not transfer at the drop of a hat.

 

[AnnapSpider]

Spending $2 mil on a non player hasn't worked out so well

So, you great soothsayers, who is going to take us the the A-10 Championship or a conference tournament champion at a small academic university?
He’d be pretty special.

 

[MrTbone]

So, you great soothsayers, who is going to take us the the A-10 Championship or a conference tournament champion at a small academic university?
He’d be pretty special.

we’ll never know if we don’t try.

 

[Eight Legger]

We invest more money in basketball than all but a few schools in the A10. That we are small and academic in nature is therefore irrelevant.

 

[spiderjpo]

Accountability will hopefully be an increased part of our basketball program as NIL money is strictly in place to win games as the academic piece is covered with the scholarship that is provided by the university.

 

[GKiller]

So, you great soothsayers, who is going to take us the the A-10 Championship or a conference tournament champion at a small academic university?
He’d be pretty special.

Our 1st A10 coach finished 2nd & went to A10 champ game & NIT in 1 year. Our 2nd a10 coach went to 1 NCAA & 1 NIT in 3 years. When the A10 was a stronger league.

 

[spider23]

Thanks gkiler, was going to point out that an a10 regular season tie every 20 years is really a roll of the dice, almost would have to try not to hire a coach that could do that. But Annap knows this, he is just trolling.

 

[SpiderRick]

I'm hating this Win at all cost attitude. I guess DIII is the only true amateur football/basketball left.

 

[VT4700]

Thanks gkiler, was going to point out that an a10 regular season tie every 20 years is really a roll of the dice, almost would have to try not to hire a coach that could do that. But Annap knows this, he is just trolling.

It's about the timing though, 23. A regular season title and a tourney title with an NCAA tourney win 2 of the last 3 seasons will get you some extra years. Along with the 24 win season in 2020, no A-10 school would not want a coach that has done that 3 of the past 5 seasons. I am as frustrated as anyone with our roster this year, but that doesn't mean we should just forget about all the success the past 5 seasons, and act like it didn't happen.

 

[Eight Legger]

Getting a little off track from the point of this specific thread, but I think the big picture is whether we have the things in place that are needed to produce teams that win in a sustainable way at a high level year after year or not. And by saying that, I'm referring to the Dayton/vcu level of expectation of legitimately having a chance to win the A10 every single year.

It's clear to me that our administration and our top donors do not have that level of expectation. In 20 years, what we've seen is that we require an exceptional point guard in order to win anything of significance, and sometimes even when we have one, we still don't do that.We've also seen that we almost never are successful with players who have little or no experience in this system and/or playing together.

This makes it difficult to be a sustainable winner, IMO, especially in this NIL environment. So I think it's fair to ask whether this system and this approach is likely to suddenly change and produce the consistent winning we all want, or whether another approach would be more likely to produce that.

 

[VT4700]

Getting a little off track from the point of this specific thread, but I think the big picture is whether we have the things in place that are needed to produce teams that win in a sustainable way at a high level year after year or not. And by saying that, I'm referring to the Dayton/vcu level of expectation of legitimately having a chance to win the A10 every single year.

It's clear to me that our administration and our top donors do not have that level of expectation. In 20 years, what we've seen is that we require an exceptional point guard in order to win anything of significance, and sometimes even when we have one, we still don't do that.We've also seen that we almost never are successful with players who have little or no experience in this system and/or playing together.

This makes it difficult to be a sustainable winner, IMO, especially in this NIL environment. So I think it's fair to ask whether this system and this approach is likely to suddenly change and produce the consistent winning we all want, or whether another approach would be more likely to produce that.

Fair question and you make some good points. I would say having an exceptional point guard is easier, not harder, in this NIL environment. We should be attractive to a lot of Jordan King types who want to go to a higher mid major, or possibly some power conference PGs who did not get the playing time they wanted at a higher level. Let's see what happens this off season.

The change I want to see happen is getting more impact freshmen. Freshmen are playing all over the country, many with big roles. If our system is set up to not really allow that, we should definitely change that, but I'm not sure it's all system related because we have had numerous freshmen make big impacts. Which maybe leads to the obvious issue lately....we need to recruit better, and land guys who can help right away.

 

[urfan1]

Fair question and you make some good points. I would say having an exceptional point guard is easier, not harder, in this NIL environment. We should be attractive to a lot of Jordan King types who want to go to a higher mid major, or possibly some power conference PGs who did not get the playing time they wanted at a higher level. Let's see what happens this off season.

The change I want to see happen is getting more impact freshmen. Freshmen are playing all over the country, many with big roles. If our system is set up to not really allow that, we should definitely change that, but I'm not sure it's all system related because we have had numerous freshmen make big impacts. Which maybe leads to the obvious issue lately....we need to recruit better, and land guys who can help right away.

Look at incoming freshman class

 

[VT4700]

Look at incoming freshman class

I hope they can have an impact next year, but I was thinking and almost assuming McGlothin and Robinson would this year.

 

[GKiller]

I hope they can have an impact next year, but I was thinking and almost assuming McGlothin and Robinson would this year.

I know u won't see this VT but that is our culture. A culture that allows a long rebuild to possibly get some payoff in 3 years. Even when u r 20 years in as a coach. u can expect when taking over a bad program. We allow and expect it here consistently for some reason. 20 years in and we are ok with 40% down seasons. Long contract invites it. Talk up restablishing the hs recruiting, talk up players staying for 4 & 5 years again in transfer NIL era, push the two frosh down, add to 3 incoming (2 from Richmond!) and u have a big 5 man nextbest class. Voila.

 

[spider23]

It's about the timing though, 23. A regular season title and a tourney title with an NCAA tourney win 2 of the last 3 seasons will get you some extra years. Along with the 24 win season in 2020, no A-10 school would not want a coach that has done that 3 of the past 5 seasons. I am as frustrated as anyone with our roster this year, but that doesn't mean we should just forget about all the success the past 5 seasons, and act like it didn't happen.

Well you can play with time frames, but the long game is that he does not have high level performing teams on a consistent level. Last season was disappointing in that whenever we had an opportunity to try to build a resume in the OOC we fell flat. BC and Northern Iowa were gut punch let downs. Yes A10 regular season went as well as could be hoped, but again when it counted in all three seasons (OOC, regular season, and post) , the coach couldn't come up with game plan to push us over. And you are double counting the extra covid year with the possible NCAA of the covid. But I do understand the powers that be are OK with his performance so it is what we have. Oh boy. And I do agree with gkiller, moon is in protection long game mode by redshirting this class and bunching with next year's as his new hs focused recruiting model.

 

[MrTbone]

I’m actually more concerned that redshirting guys this year is because they couldn’t outplay the guys ahead of them. No way I’m redshirting if I know I’m better than someone in front of me.

There is 100% good reason to want to have impact freshmen but it should not be because we have no impact upperclassmen, which is what I fear next year is mostly resembling.

 

[spiderstudent17]

Not sure which thread this best fits and didn’t want to make a new one for it. Random account made a comment of notable college teams to never make the final four. It’s nice thinking that others think highly enough of Richmond as a program to consider as notable.

 

[RichmondNative]

Maybe the big donors are buying access, etc. and not necessarily just wins?

The one thing the donors are doing is creating an environment that has forced out lots of quality tenured coaches - Larranaga being the latest. Miami was the first school noted to pay players the mega-bucks and surprise the team did not win a championship and now is down a coach.

I know there will be “other quality coaches” filling in the gaps, but it is definitely an end of an era and personally I’m not looking forward to a second NBA. Turning into a grumpy old man, but also gaining a greater appreciation of the past.

 

[SpiderTrap]

This will soley depend on the donors, because unlike other donations - where you might give 10 million to the school, and they use it to build a building or fund a scholarship for many years - this is money that is essentially used, thrown out the window to a 19 year old kid - and they will need the same amount next year or MORE to keep up or keep the current players. You can't be a donor, and say - hey, I will give you 5 milion this year for NIL money, and then next year - give nothing, cause that 5 million will be depleted and needs to be replenished. And if your a donor looking for results - how long before you ask yourself - is this working?

 

[spider23]

I’m actually more concerned that redshirting guys this year is because they couldn’t outplay the guys ahead of them. No way I’m redshirting if I know I’m better than someone in front of me.

There is 100% good reason to want to have impact freshmen but it should not be because we have no impact upperclassmen, which is what I fear next year is mostly resembling.

Well, one thing is the whole adaptability thing again. I have a hard time thinking Jrob coming in playing frenetically for 5 to 7 minutes a half couldn't at least impact the game by getting a break away or two, a block and a stick back. But Moon just plays long game. Again, SDSU has two freshman that are still raw, but Dutcher works them in and they are able to have positive impacts in the parts of the game moon does not emphasize.

 

[spiderman]

I listened to part of Larranaga's resignation speech. i just think it's funny how he blames NIL for everything, when Miami took advantage of having one of the biggest college NIL donors ever in John Ruiz. they went to the final 4 with the advantage of a huge payroll. he talks about the joy of coaching Isaiah Wong as if he was a pre-NIL kid, when in reality he was one of the 1st million dollar kids. guess he didn't hate NIL as much when it benefitted him. not sure his payroll lately, but Larranaga was 6-14 in conference last year and 4-8 OOC this year.

he talks about how kids look to move for more money now, as if he didn't look for more money when he left Bowling Green for George Mason or when he left George Mason for Miami. smh. seems hypocritical to me.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

may as well blame the NBA, G-league, one and done, television, the jump shot, dunking, freshmen being allowed to play, and any other change to the game. Never blame the NCAA for reaping rewards for years with zero compensation for using player likenesses, or sharing any of the massive haul from the tournament tv rights. As you note, he got paid really well because of many of the things that the NCAA broke by being so dumb.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

I think Larranaga is old school and his move from school to school,
was a move to better conference each time where higher salaries come
with it. I am surprised Leonard Hamilton is still at FSU.

 

[GKiller]

Not sure which thread this best fits and didn’t want to make a new one for it. Random account made a comment of notable college teams to never make the final four. It’s nice thinking that others think highly enough of Richmond as a program to consider as notable.

View embedded media

some random schools on there too I would not call notable at a quick glance...

GCU - they've been d1 like 10 years and I think have 1 ncaa win. U might as well add PCU.
Northwestern - they r solid enough team now but weren't they last power conf team to ever make the NCAA? Which was just in the last 5 or 10 years.
Tulane? Tulane?

Tho he may be calling notable for things besides bball success idk. But they r not surprising in any way re: final 4.

The 2 notable that stand out most to me are Tennessee and Xavier. Because they've been to a lot of NCAA tourneys and have been close b4.

Any making final 4 this year? Well that's easy....Richmond Spiders.

 

[Wood Hall]

may as well blame the NBA, G-league, one and done, television, the jump shot, dunking, freshmen being allowed to play, and any other change to the game. Never blame the NCAA for reaping rewards for years with zero compensation for using player likenesses, or sharing any of the massive haul from the tournament tv rights. As you note, he got paid really well because of many of the things that the NCAA broke by being so dumb.

Not disagreeing with most of your post, you are exactly right. But the NCAA has been returning tournament revenue for years to the teams and conferences in the form of financial units. Each tournament game played was worth about $340,000 last year.

 

[VT4700]

I listened to part of Larranaga's resignation speech. i just think it's funny how he blames NIL for everything, when Miami took advantage of having one of the biggest college NIL donors ever in John Ruiz. they went to the final 4 with the advantage of a huge payroll. he talks about the joy of coaching Isaiah Wong as if he was a pre-NIL kid, when in reality he was one of the 1st million dollar kids. guess he didn't hate NIL as much when it benefitted him. not sure his payroll lately, but Larranaga was 6-14 in conference last year and 4-8 OOC this year.

he talks about how kids look to move for more money now, as if he didn't look for more money when he left Bowling Green for George Mason or when he left George Mason for Miami. smh. seems hypocritical to me.

And he is 75 years old. I doubt NIL has anything to do with his decision.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I am willing to bet the thing that gets to these coaches the most, and is sometimes why college coaches don't succeed in the NBA is because the power dynamic has shifted over the years due to the changes that have occurred. Before - college coaches were all powerful and could almost fully control the lives and careers of these HS kids coming to their school. That shifted a bit when one and done players become all the rave as you were basically renting the player for 1 year, but even in that 1 year - you still had some sort of control and power over them as you could control their playing time, and possible draft spot. BUT now - you have kids who are making more money than the coaches, like the NBA, and therefore - I am willing to bet at some of these places - the dynamic has shifted drastically. Less and less coaching, less and less control - and at this point, your just a people and personality manager and faciliator for the NIL payments. So I can see that wearing on old school coaches who are used to the - when I say jump, you say how high - mentality.

 

[spiderman]

Not disagreeing with most of your post, you are exactly right. But the NCAA has been returning tournament revenue for years to the teams and conferences in the form of financial units. Each tournament game played was worth about $340,000 last year.

they shared it only with the management (the schools and the coaches).
not with the labor.

 

[spiderman]

I think Larranaga is old school and his move from school to school,
was a move to better conference each time where higher salaries come
with it. I am surprised Leonard Hamilton is still at FSU.

I'm not buyng it. if it was all about coaching kids, he'd have been fine at Bowling Green. he wanted more.

not saying that's wrong. people leave jobs for "more" every day. just don't whine about college kids who now have the same options as he's had.

 

[spiderstudent17]

some random schools on there too I would not call notable at a quick glance...

GCU - they've been d1 like 10 years and I think have 1 ncaa win. U might as well add PCU.
Northwestern - they r solid enough team now but weren't they last power conf team to ever make the NCAA? Which was just in the last 5 or 10 years.
Tulane? Tulane?

Tho he may be calling notable for things besides bball success idk. But they r not surprising in any way re: final 4.

The 2 notable that stand out most to me are Tennessee and Xavier. Because they've been to a lot of NCAA tourneys and have been close b4.

Any making final 4 this year? Well that's easy....Richmond Spiders.

Ya, I didn’t make much of it other than some fan of college basketball considers Richmond highly enough that they fall in this category. I agree that Tennessee and Xavier are up there in the most notable category. May even add Arizona State, BYU, & Creighton.

 

[spiderstudent17]

Not sure if I missed others commenting on this, but Larranaga retiring now seems like donor driven decision because of how poor the team has been playing. It’s one thing to retire right before the season starts, but to do it mid-season (not having personal or family reasons) is even more unprofessional in my opinion. Citing NIL is ridiculous because, as other have noted, Miami has benefitted tremendously from NIL. Still, out of respect for Larranaga and what he’s done, the athletic department allowed him to call this a retirement as opposed to a firing.

 

[whampas]

I am willing to bet the thing that gets to these coaches the most, and is sometimes why college coaches don't succeed in the NBA is because the power dynamic has shifted over the years due to the changes that have occurred. Before - college coaches were all powerful and could almost fully control the lives and careers of these HS kids coming to their school. That shifted a bit when one and done players become all the rave as you were basically renting the player for 1 year, but even in that 1 year - you still had some sort of control and power over them as you could control their playing time, and possible draft spot. BUT now - you have kids who are making more money than the coaches, like the NBA, and therefore - I am willing to bet at some of these places - the dynamic has shifted drastically. Less and less coaching, less and less control - and at this point, your just a people and personality manager and faciliator for the NIL payments. So I can see that wearing on old school coaches who are used to the - when I say jump, you say how high - mentality.

It may all collapse on itself before said and done. There's no control of any kind.