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At least Hardt's now on the record

Wood Hall

Wood Hall

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Jan 26, 2015
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I don't agree with his decision. At all.

But at least Hardt is clearly now on the record. If we don't win the A-10, or remain in the title race until the final weekend, and either earn or be be legitimately considered for an NCAA berth, Mooney is gone after next season, no questions asked.

The AD's expectations for the program are clear. Win, or leave.

I hope we have a great 2019-20. If we don't, then there can be no doubt what must happen. .
 
"The expectations that coach Mooney and I discuss on a regular basis are for our basketball program to compete at the highest level. After several years with no NCAA tournament appearances, coach Mooney and I have talked about our strong desire to return to the NCAA tournament. Coach Mooney and I share a sense of urgency, and we are on the same page in terms of expectations for the program."

Not a whole lot of wriggle room there, IMHO. Fifth place in the A-10 and the NIT/CBI are not anywhere near the highest level.
 
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Wood Hall said:
"The expectations that coach Mooney and I discuss on a regular basis are for our basketball program to compete at the highest level. After several years with no NCAA tournament appearances, coach Mooney and I have talked about our strong desire to return to the NCAA tournament. Coach Mooney and I share a sense of urgency, and we are on the same page in terms of expectations for the program."

Not a whole lot of wriggle room there, IMHO. Fifth place in the A-10 and the NIT/CBI are not anywhere near the highest level.
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Not to you. Mooney says we "competed" after every game. That's not an accident.

We could finish 15-15 next year, Hardt could point to our impressive improvement, and say he sees an NCAA in 2021.
 
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Yeah, I don’t know. What does it mean to compete for the A10 Championship? Top2? Top4 or 6? Regular season or final tournament position for each of the above?

Is playing in the league good enough?

I don’t know why that’s good enough next year but wasn’t good enough this year.
 
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The problem to me is that there's no timeframe indicated. Yes, he wants us to be in the NCAAs and be playing at the highest level, but when? Next year? The year after? He hints at it, but in trying not to be super direct, he instead becomes vague. It's better to be clear and direct. Just say what you mean.
 
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To me, "A sense of urgency" means RFN, not 2021 or 2022.

Hardt was criticized for not having concrete expectations. Now we do.
 
Wood Hall said:
"The expectations that coach Mooney and I discuss on a regular basis are for our basketball program to compete at the highest level. After several years with no NCAA tournament appearances, coach Mooney and I have talked about our strong desire to return to the NCAA tournament. Coach Mooney and I share a sense of urgency, and we are on the same page in terms of expectations for the program."

Not a whole lot of wriggle room there, IMHO. Fifth place in the A-10 and the NIT/CBI are not anywhere near the highest level.
Click to expand...
But he put those same expectations before this season as well and ...
 
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Wood Hall said:
To me, "A sense of urgency" means RFN, not 2021 or 2022.

Hardt was criticized for not having concrete expectations. Now we do.
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I want to believe this and I know you have expertise in this arena.

That said, a bunch of people in this tiny little corner of fandom are unclear on what this means so I don’t think it’s concrete. Maybe like plaster of Paris?
 
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ChoppinBroccoli said:
Not to you. Mooney says we "competed" after every game. That's not an accident.

We could finish 15-15 next year, Hardt could point to our impressive improvement, and say he sees an NCAA in 2021.
Click to expand...
This is never going to end. CM is hear for years and the Spiders will remain bad/mediocre for years.
 
Unless CM voluntarily leaves for another job, he's finishing his contract. JOC hinted at that in a tweet last weekend. "UR has never bought out a men's hoops coach. NEVER." Take note of the all caps at the end.

All of this has been carefully scripted, and to be frank, it's just more PR deception. The "Q&A" was just more empty rhetoric.
 
I went back and looked through the histories of every current A-10 team to see how many times anyone had made the NCAA tournament coming off back-to-back losing seasons. The answer:

• GW 2013 (24-9 after going 23-38 the previous two seasons)
• St. Joe's 2001 (26-7 after going 25-34)
• George Mason 1999* (19-11 after going 19-35)
• Richmond* 1998 (23-8 in Beilein's first year after going 21-35)
• SLU* in 1994 (23-6 after going 17-40)
• Dayton 1990 (22-10 after going 25-35)
• Davidson* 1986 (20-11 after going 19-38)
• Rhode Island* 1961 (18-9 after going 20-26)

Eight times in the histories of 14 teams. The asterisks mean those teams did it while not in the A10. No one has done it twice. The one time we did it was when we made a coaching change.

We were 25-40 the past two seasons. I suppose it is possible for us to make the tournament, but these are pretty tall odds. If Hardt is bringing Mooney back with this as an expectation, it is likely one he will not reach. Then the question is, what next?
 
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Spiders10 said:
Unless CM voluntarily leaves for another job, he's finishing his contract. JOC hinted at that in a tweet last weekend. "UR has never bought out a men's hoops coach. NEVER." Take note of the all caps at the end.

All of this has been carefully scripted, and to be frank, it's just more PR deception. The "Q&A" was just more empty rhetoric.
Click to expand...
I'[ll disagree. No NCAA in 2020, no more Mooney.
 
Eight Legger said:
I went back and looked through the histories of every current A-10 team to see how many times anyone had made the NCAA tournament coming off back-to-back losing seasons. The answer:

• St. Joe's 2001 (26-7 after going 25-34 the previous two seasons)
• George Mason 1999* (19-11 after going 19-35)
• Richmond 1998 (23-8 in Beilein's first year after going 21-35)
• SLU* in 1994 (23-6 after going 17-40)
• Dayton 1990 (2-10 after going 25-35)
• Davidson* 1986 (20-11 after going 19-38)
• Rhode Island* 1961 (18-9 after going 20-26)

Seven times in the histories of 14 teams. The asterisks mean those teams did it while not in the A10. No one has done it twice. The one time we did it was when we made a coaching change.

We were 25-40 the past two seasons. I suppose it is possible for us to make the tournament, but these are pretty tall odds. If Hardt is bringing Mooney back with this as an expectation, it is likely one he will not reach. Then the question is, what next?
Click to expand...
Richmond should have an asterisk, too. We weren't in the A10 in 1998.
 
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Eight Legger said:
I went back and looked through the histories of every current A-10 team to see how many times anyone had made the NCAA tournament coming off back-to-back losing seasons. The answer:

• St. Joe's 2001 (26-7 after going 25-34 the previous two seasons)
• George Mason 1999* (19-11 after going 19-35)
• Richmond 1998 (23-8 in Beilein's first year after going 21-35)
• SLU* in 1994 (23-6 after going 17-40)
• Dayton 1990 (2-10 after going 25-35)
• Davidson* 1986 (20-11 after going 19-38)
• Rhode Island* 1961 (18-9 after going 20-26)

Seven times in the histories of 14 teams. The asterisks mean those teams did it while not in the A10. No one has done it twice. The one time we did it was when we made a coaching change.

We were 25-40 the past two seasons. I suppose it is possible for us to make the tournament, but these are pretty tall odds. If Hardt is bringing Mooney back with this as an expectation, it is likely one he will not reach. Then the question is, what next?
Click to expand...

What about GW? They went 10-21 in 2011-12 and 13-17 in 2012-13, and made the tourney in 2013-14, all with the same coach.
 
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Eight Legger said:
The problem to me is that there's no timeframe indicated. Yes, he wants us to be in the NCAAs and be playing at the highest level, but when? Next year? The year after? He hints at it, but in trying not to be super direct, he instead becomes vague. It's better to be clear and direct. Just say what you mean.
Click to expand...
Sure there was..."sooner rather than later." What, that's not clear enough for you?
 
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Wood Hall said:
"Competed" and "competed at the highest level" are two different kettles of fish entirely.
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You and I agree on the latter. I also think it should mean NCAA, next year. We disagree on whether Hardt is being clear or coy.

In your original post, you said "legitimately considered for an NCAA berth (or Mooney is gone)" and later in this thread you said "No NCAA in 2020, no more Mooney." If Hardt was clear, why the difference?

Apparently it's not clear to JOC, the guy who asked him the question in the first place. From his latest on the subject:

Say the Spiders go 19-15 next season and lose in the first round of the NIT, or something along those lines. That’s significant improvement from back-to-back 20-loss seasons, but would it be sufficient to persuade UR’s administration to maintain Mooney’s employment? Richmond’s supporters may be split, as they seemed to be this year.
Click to expand...
 
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Wood Hall said:
I don't agree with his decision. At all.

But at least Hardt is clearly now on the record. If we don't win the A-10, or remain in the title race until the final weekend, and either earn or be be legitimately considered for an NCAA berth, Mooney is gone after next season, no questions asked.

The AD's expectations for the program are clear. Win, or leave.

I hope we have a great 2019-20. If we don't, then there can be no doubt what must happen. .
Click to expand...
Where did you read this?
 
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They will have plenty of excuses to keep Mooney until the contract is over. Players got the flu or broke a fingernail.
 
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I think "compete at the highest level" simply means staying in the A10. Even if it's as the bottom team.
That is an easy goal for sure. Check.
 
Wood Hall said:
"The expectations that coach Mooney and I discuss on a regular basis are for our basketball program to compete at the highest level [ie to participate in Division 1]. After several years with no NCAA tournament appearances, coach Mooney and I have talked about our strong desire to return to the NCAA tournament [...eventually]. Coach Mooney and I share a sense of urgency, and we are on the same page in terms of expectations for the program."

Not a whole lot of wriggle room there, IMHO. Fifth place in the A-10 and the NIT/CBI are not anywhere near the highest level.
Click to expand...
Would the bracketed additions have changed your interpretation?
 
just a suggestion for all of us, don't count on anything. assume that CM will be here until his contract ends and then you can sleep at night and don't have to worry about interpreting words and meanings. don't make your lives miserable when you have not a tad of control over the situation but are just along for the ride.
 
fatherspider said:
But he put those same expectations before this season as well and ...
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X2

I may be confused. Please help out here. I remember reading Wood's first passage (post #3) or something similar months ago. Was the passage that Wood cited stated w/in the last several days. I just remember reading yesterday or day before that Mooney was retained because of "potential".

If what he said was from months ago, it throws water on the decision to retain Mooney. Meaningless with no follow through.
 
SpiderGuy said:
X2

I may be confused. Please help out here. I remember reading Wood's first passage (post #3) or something similar months ago. Was the passage that Wood cited stated w/in the last several days. I just remember reading yesterday or day before that Mooney was retained because of "potential".

If what he said was from months ago, it throws water on the decision to retain Mooney. Meaningless with no follow through.
Click to expand...
From the recent Q&A with JOC...
"Q6: What are the expectations for the men’s basketball program moving forward?

A6: The expectations that coach Mooney and I discuss on a regular basis are for our basketball program to compete at the highest level. After several years with no NCAA tournament appearances, coach Mooney and I have talked about our strong desire to return to the NCAA tournament. Coach Mooney and I share a sense of urgency, and we are on the same page in terms of expectations for the program. In that regard, we are both committed to working hard and doing everything we can to make sure that Spider success on the hardwood happens sooner rather than later."
 
urmite said:
From the recent Q&A with JOC...
"Q6: What are the expectations for the men’s basketball program moving forward?

A6: The expectations that coach Mooney and I discuss on a regular basis are for our basketball program to compete at the highest level. After several years with no NCAA tournament appearances, coach Mooney and I have talked about our strong desire to return to the NCAA tournament. Coach Mooney and I share a sense of urgency, and we are on the same page in terms of expectations for the program. In that regard, we are both committed to working hard and doing everything we can to make sure that Spider success on the hardwood happens sooner rather than later."
Click to expand...
Thx for the clarification.
 
urmite said:
From the recent Q&A with JOC...
"Q6: What are the expectations for the men’s basketball program moving forward?

A6: The expectations that coach Mooney and I discuss on a regular basis are for our basketball program to compete at the highest level. After several years with no NCAA tournament appearances, coach Mooney and I have talked about our strong desire to return to the NCAA tournament. Coach Mooney and I share a sense of urgency, and we are on the same page in terms of expectations for the program. In that regard, we are both committed to working hard and doing everything we can to make sure that Spider success on the hardwood happens sooner rather than later."
Click to expand...
There is SO much wiggle room there. “Compete at the highest level”, “strong desire to return to the NCAA tournament”, “sense of urgency”, “working hard”, “sooner rather than later”.
 
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VT4700 said:
What about GW? They went 10-21 in 2011-12 and 13-17 in 2012-13, and made the tourney in 2013-14, all with the same coach.
Click to expand...

This is true. However, Lonergan's first year was 2011-12. He was rebuilding the program, and it worked.

In contrast, Mooney's 13th and 14th seasons were back to back losing seasons. He should already have rebuilt the program, especially after going to back to back NCAAs.
 
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Eight Legger said:
I went back and looked through the histories of every current A-10 team to see how many times anyone had made the NCAA tournament coming off back-to-back losing seasons. The answer:

• St. Joe's 2001 (26-7 after going 25-34 the previous two seasons)
• George Mason 1999* (19-11 after going 19-35)
• Richmond 1998 (23-8 in Beilein's first year after going 21-35)
• SLU* in 1994 (23-6 after going 17-40)
• Dayton 1990 (2-10 after going 25-35)
• Davidson* 1986 (20-11 after going 19-38)
• Rhode Island* 1961 (18-9 after going 20-26)

Seven times in the histories of 14 teams. The asterisks mean those teams did it while not in the A10. No one has done it twice. The one time we did it was when we made a coaching change.

We were 25-40 the past two seasons. I suppose it is possible for us to make the tournament, but these are pretty tall odds. If Hardt is bringing Mooney back with this as an expectation, it is likely one he will not reach. Then the question is, what next?
Click to expand...
Besides GW that people have mentioned, I am surprised Dayton made the NCAA at 2-10...:D
 
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I believe qualification for the NIT falls within the perimeters of Hardt's statement. Not good enough for me.
 
if we go from 13 to 20 wins and play in the NIT, and have everyone coming back ... Mooney definitely stays.
 
spiderman said:
if we go from 13 to 20 wins and play in the NIT, and have everyone coming back ... Mooney definitely stays.
Click to expand...
I would agree with this. I don’t necessarily want it but I’d agree.

We need to win minimum 19 games to make NIT? I’m struggling to see how we do that against A) toughest schedule ever, B) A10 improving at same rate as us and C) no evidence our defense will be vastly improved.

I wait with baited breath.
 
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