I always hear this we don't fire coaches talk and wonder who it is/was that you wanted fired. Other than Mooney, of course, who you and others have always wanted fired.
Tarrant?
Beilein?
Wainwright?
Clawson?
London?
Rocco?
Huesman?
Around the A-10: 2024–25 Edition
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Tarrant?
Beilein?
Wainwright?
Clawson?
London?
Rocco?
Huesman?
Ole Jer certainly had issues while at UR. yes, one NCAA and a signature win at Kansas that same year. But severely underwhelmed with the same team the previous year and then a total car crash situation the following year, including off-court issues and his own conflicts with the school. Roller coaster.
You notably omitted Dooley in your list. Great guy, glad he's an alum and still part of the UR hoops community, but also wasn't fired, UR just let his contract expire. One .500 season, two 20 loss seasons and one 13-15 season. Beilein then took all the same guys to an NCAA win the next year. Coaching matters.
You notably omitted Dooley in your list. Great guy, glad he's an alum and still part of the UR hoops community, but also wasn't fired, UR just let his contract expire. One .500 season, two 20 loss seasons and one 13-15 season. Beilein then took all the same guys to an NCAA win the next year. Coaching matters.
Dooley is the poster child for this. Let the contract run out, then said thanks for the memories.
The better question is what coach under contract have we fired?
Maybe there has been but can’t think of one. Even if u look at Olympic sports like baseball & women hoops we wait.
I’d say Latrell Scott. But he was probably for cause.
He was 100% for cause, DUI.
We may have fired the women’s soccer coach a couple years ago, I’m not certain.
It’s just not a practice at UR, whether by accident or design.
We said see ya after only 4 years though. I guess we could have fired him after 3 years with 1 year left, but I don't think using a 4 year coach who wasn't renewed is a good example of "we don't fire coaches here." And, looking at my list, I ask again, who exactly should we have fired? You guys act like we have 5 or 6 examples out there.
U could count Mooney 5 times by himself
Football coach Jim Marshall was fired in 1994. Dal Shealy was before him and started in 1980. After Marshall, we have had Reid, Clawson, London, Scott (let go after multiple DUIs), Lineberg (interim coach), Rocco, Huesman. Who did you want fired after we fired Marshall?
Basketball, since 1981, we had Tarrant, Dooley, Beilein, Wainwright, and, Mooney. So, going back 40+ years, other than Mooney, and I guess Dooley after 3 years?, who else can you name to back up the "we don't fire coaches here" talk?
Dal Shealy resigned. Jim Marshall while he deserved to be fired I’m pretty sure had his contract expire too. I think Tbone point is we don’t/haven’t bought out contracts. But the university has paid for many other problems to go away so idk why so averse.
I’m on block & 4700 won’t see this anyway so someone can reply to it or cut & paste if they want.
I’m on block & 4700 won’t see this anyway so someone can reply to it or cut & paste if they want.
I think you’re using some circuitous logic. No one is/was advocating firing most of those guys because by and large they performed reasonably well. Almost all of them moved on to bigger jobs.
The question isn’t who should we have fired, it’s who have we fired mid-contract? I don’t know of any examples other than Scott which as mentioned was for cause.
2/5 in bball have a case they easily could have been fired following b2b 20 loss seasons. 3 if ole Jer had one more wildly dumb season.
??? What's the freaking difference? If you agree these were coaches that should not have been fired, what does mid contract, early contract, late contract or any contract have to do with it? I named every football and basketball coach we have had the past 40+ years. You ask who have we fired mid contract, as if we should have done so with some of them? Sorry, I can't make this reply of yours make sense. We did fire a football coach, Marshall, in 1994, and, as I said in my last post, other than Mooney, and maybe Dooley, even though he was only here 4 years, who else could you possibly name the past 40 years that would justify being fired mid contract? You can change the goalposts to mid contract all you want, but my point is the same. There is no way to back up the we don't fire coaches talk here because the chances or reasons to fire nearly all of these coaches haven't been there. And, we will never know, but I don't think Mooney would have survived a 3rd straight bad year had we not gone 24-7 in 2020. I think 2020 was very much a do or die season for him here. So, you can say we should have fired him after the 2019 season, but was it really a bad decision to keep him when we had one of our best seasons ever in 2020?
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Wainwright wasn't fired but he claimed we packed his bags for him.
he had a 5 year contract that said if he left early he owed UR. he left early. he claimed he didn't owe the money because he was in a way forced out, as UR's academic expectations for his team as he understood them had changed since he took the job. so he didn't pay ... and we sued him. it was settled out of court.
he had a 5 year contract that said if he left early he owed UR. he left early. he claimed he didn't owe the money because he was in a way forced out, as UR's academic expectations for his team as he understood them had changed since he took the job. so he didn't pay ... and we sued him. it was settled out of court.
Richmond: Richmond, Wainwright Resolve Suit
Richmond, Wainwright Resolve Suit: Richmond officials and former Spiders coach Jerry Wainwright likely won’t be catching up over dinner anytime soon. Nor will they be battling in court. Representat…
www.hoopville.com
back on topic ... Duquesne lost to Maine last night. they're now 2-8 with the #232 SOS. they were picked 8th in the preseason A10 poll right behind us.
and yet the A10 is 8th as a conference in the NET. if Duquesne and Richmond and UMASS were pulling their weight, the A10 would be having a heck of a season.
and yet the A10 is 8th as a conference in the NET. if Duquesne and Richmond and UMASS were pulling their weight, the A10 would be having a heck of a season.
Fordham should be added despite their record.
We wish we were LaSalle this season…
Marshall was not "fired" during an existing contract, his contract simply was not renewed. In those days, people more commonly called that a "firing" whereas today they don't.
thx for confirming w facts. aligns w what i mentioned above. know guys who played for Marshall. & if u find anything on Shealy I bet it shows him resigning.
hmm vt4700 was incorrect. but thats what u get when u r only a recent Spider supporter from about halfway thru Moon era & mainly rely on press guides. easy to make assumptions. Need the lived experiences.
also anyone with a number in their board name on here is 10x more likely to be wrong. it's science.
I remember it differently and I have seen info on this that says he was fired. So, we have some sources that say one thing and some that say others. Maybe the Collegian got it wrong? My guess is he was fired. Did we even know what contract Marshall even had back then? Anyway, I guess he could have bern fired sooner, but after his 1st 3 awful years here, he turned things around in year 4, and even won conference coach of the year. So, hard to fire him then, but after the next 2 years were bad again, he was done. Whatever officially happened with him doesn’t change my point that in 40+ years, we have had very few opportunities to fire anyone "mid contract" ( since that is the time frame we must use now).
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lol u don't remember anything. wrong on Marshall and Shealy. stop relying on press guides to try to find some gotcha that doesn't exist. & no way u have seen info that is stronger than 8Legger's Collegian pull or ppl who were around the team.
i dont know what u even mean by "mid contract" & not even sure what your overall point is, but facts r Richmond has not historically bought out coaching contracts - I agree w Tbone on the latter.
That said it really shouldn't matter to Richmond bball current day because that is our premier sport and also where all the $ and publicity is.
i dont know what u even mean by "mid contract" & not even sure what your overall point is, but facts r Richmond has not historically bought out coaching contracts - I agree w Tbone on the latter.
That said it really shouldn't matter to Richmond bball current day because that is our premier sport and also where all the $ and publicity is.
Going to see Bonnies play Providence tomorrow. Should be a good game. Going to try track down Woj and grab his phone and send out some anti Mooney tweets. Wish me luck.
This has turned into some kind of gotcha type topic unsurprisingly. I don’t think UR is big on “terminating contracts” is my only point.
I’d love to be wrong on this, it would give me hope that UR actually cares about performance, but there’s little evidence that the Athletic Department does this, and there have certainly been cases where it’s been warranted.
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I don't think either one of us is trying for a gotcha moment. We just disagree on this topic, that's all. You think there is enough evidence to support that we don't fire coaches. I don't think we have seen enough cases where a firing is justified to support that we don't fire coaches. I think Mooney would have been fired had 2020 been just an average or below average season. I guess you don't, which is fine. Just our opinions and we will never know, so no worries or gotcha moments on my end. All good by me.
I’m not making this much of an argument about CM. His situation was weird because he just dodged a bullet due to timing of Hardt coming on board.
But there are certainly plenty of examples of subpar performers. Some turned it around (Huesman), others didn’t. I’m extrapolating out to non revenue sports btw, Woodson in baseball for example. I’m genuinely asking for examples, I just don’t know if any.
95% sure Marshall timed out, wasn’t fired.
I haven't focused on non revenue sports for this topic because I doubt too many non revenue coaches have long enough contracts where they need to be fired rather than just not renewed. And, all good if Marshall was just timed out. I didn't follow us as much when he was coaching as I did when Shealy was, but I remember thinking it was time for him to go, and have always thought he was fired. I don't remember seeing or hearing contract info, so hard to really know for sure, but no big deal, and I will take your word for it.
in the basketball program, 40% of coaches in the last 40+ years could have been fired but weren't, 60% if you include one that they wanted so badly to fire that they sued him when he then left on his own. In an apples to apples comparison of basketball as the flagship program, there is a pattern and an argument that the school doesn't fire coaches.
The rebuttal to the inevitable counterarguments already posted above:
1. They didn't fire Dooley bc why bother when he had only 1 year left. Rebuttal: If you're 100% committed to moving on, then move on immediately and eat that one last year to start fresh. School could afford it, they could have potentially salvaged a better season the next year. They didn't. First example that shows a pattern of not firing coaches.
2. Wainwright - Wasn't fired, left of own accord bc was so at odds with school. Rebuttal: Although not quite fitting into the pattern for sure, there is a clear argument that with only 2 years left, having turned a Cadillac into a trash can fire in 3 years and with a host of real issues that the school actively hated - academic, off court player stuff and a losing record on court, sure seems like they could have moved on him. They didn't and he moved on of his own accord.
3. Mooney - they could have fired him then. Rebuttal: they didn't and it crystallizes the argument. He hadn't made NCAA in 7 years and b2b 20 loss seasons. A clear example of the argument being made, the clearest of them all really. What came after was inconsequential to the argument.
The rebuttal to the inevitable counterarguments already posted above:
1. They didn't fire Dooley bc why bother when he had only 1 year left. Rebuttal: If you're 100% committed to moving on, then move on immediately and eat that one last year to start fresh. School could afford it, they could have potentially salvaged a better season the next year. They didn't. First example that shows a pattern of not firing coaches.
2. Wainwright - Wasn't fired, left of own accord bc was so at odds with school. Rebuttal: Although not quite fitting into the pattern for sure, there is a clear argument that with only 2 years left, having turned a Cadillac into a trash can fire in 3 years and with a host of real issues that the school actively hated - academic, off court player stuff and a losing record on court, sure seems like they could have moved on him. They didn't and he moved on of his own accord.
3. Mooney - they could have fired him then. Rebuttal: they didn't and it crystallizes the argument. He hadn't made NCAA in 7 years and b2b 20 loss seasons. A clear example of the argument being made, the clearest of them all really. What came after was inconsequential to the argument.
I believe minor sport contracts are typically five years at UR, although I think they generally run down further before getting renewed. But as with the bigger sports, potential outside interest can trigger early renegotiation/extension.
