Forgot about Yale. My guess is that will be his pick if an Ivy school is the goal.
Definitely looks bleak. 23 can start practicing his Bs for the recruiting report card.
2021 Recruiting Expectations
- Thread starter spider23
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Definitely looks bleak. 23 can start practicing his Bs for the recruiting report card.
Yes, the trend for NMH to IVY is very strong, almost a little odd. But maybe that is part of the allure of going to that particular prep school. Very little on Larson's recruitment either. So holding about 10% hope on this one 
.
Native, hopefully it's just my normal over reacting, but I am starting to worry about this class. We had a lot of momentum early, and I am pumped about Nelson and Dread, but seems like we hit a wall. If we would have signed Garrett Johnson or Hicks, B+ was really obtainable for Mooney, letting big man credit slide to transfer search.
If we don't land Noyes, or a decent 6'8+ guy, we may slide down to a C- and dropping. Moon will need extra credit in the transfer market to bring his GPA up.
.Native, hopefully it's just my normal over reacting, but I am starting to worry about this class. We had a lot of momentum early, and I am pumped about Nelson and Dread, but seems like we hit a wall. If we would have signed Garrett Johnson or Hicks, B+ was really obtainable for Mooney, letting big man credit slide to transfer search.
If we don't land Noyes, or a decent 6'8+ guy, we may slide down to a C- and dropping. Moon will need extra credit in the transfer market to bring his GPA up.
no idea what our interest level is. we offered a long time ago. haven't seen any updates since. it's concerning to me that a 6'10" guy isn't attracting non Ivy interest though. forget P5's. where are Colgate, Holy Cross, Bucknell, Lafayette, Lehigh, W&M, etc?
already lost Garrett J to Ivy, this would be another tho we can never know exact interest. But in general gotta win those at minimum if not winning the ones with similar or little higher level comp like Hicks and Schieffelin. The grade is still incomplete as time left but gotta have some concern. Local kid Nelson was a big win but Dread is quite unknown imo. Love Gonzaga in DC they produce college players but he was a role guy avg 5 ppg a game, we were best offer, & even for Gonzaga that stat line is not typical for a high level jr recruit, so there is a little "Dread" there of course I'm hopeful we got ahead of the curve on him w/o summer circuit but reasonable to be concerned.
UR basketball didn't even do a press release on the Mooney contract extension these 2021s & beyond must not know it.
UR basketball didn't even do a press release on the Mooney contract extension these 2021s & beyond must not know it.
247sports has Dread ranked #279 overall which is just below Jason Nelson at #267. I generally find that they do a decent job ranking kids until they commit. Once they commit they rise or fall based on which school.
Example, both Nelson and Dread's ranking score dropped pretty significantly after they committed to Richmond.
A great example of this is Isaiah Wilson. Who was rated as a 0.9333 and #132 overall a week before he committed to Richmond. This would have been by far the highest rated Richmond player ever in their rankings, which have been maintained since the early 2000's. Then the week he committed to us they dropped his rating to 0.8945 and down to #190. His rating has continued to drop a little to 0.8838 and #247.
Example, both Nelson and Dread's ranking score dropped pretty significantly after they committed to Richmond.
A great example of this is Isaiah Wilson. Who was rated as a 0.9333 and #132 overall a week before he committed to Richmond. This would have been by far the highest rated Richmond player ever in their rankings, which have been maintained since the early 2000's. Then the week he committed to us they dropped his rating to 0.8945 and down to #190. His rating has continued to drop a little to 0.8838 and #247.
pretty sure it’s last season thought his coach said as much in 1 of the articles.
I also have a connection to Gonzaga some games he didn’t even get a lot of PT. Now both of those things would be a byproduct of being on a good team w # of seniors going onto d1. And per SpiderVol it didn’t seem to affect a pretty good ranking either. It just raises some questions...which might go unanswered too if Gonzaga doesn’t have much of a season.
think I hit every Malcom Dread article this morning. the only 5 ppg mention I see is 2018-19. no idea why Maxpreps doesn't have any Gonzaga stats from last year.
heck of a team if he wasn't playing much. eyeball test says he's very good. not sure I've seen more charges taken in a highlight reel, though he got credit for a charge at 2:15 in the worst charge call in history.
heck of a team if he wasn't playing much. eyeball test says he's very good. not sure I've seen more charges taken in a highlight reel, though he got credit for a charge at 2:15 in the worst charge call in history.
In 2018-19 he avg 3.8 see below. It may be a behind a firewall but he scored 137 pts in 36 games as a soph.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/allmetsports/gonzaga/malcolm-dread/
I assume you pulled that from article below. Likely a typo on Noah part and meant 19-20. Even later in article he writes "Dread only averaged about five points per game, but Turner attributed that to playing behind four starters scoring in double-figures with three players committed to high-major schools (Michigan, Vanderbilt and Butler)."
The coach is clearly referring to this past year & it makes no sense for the coach to be talking about stats from soph season over the most recent anyway.
https://espnrichmond.com/64673/malcolm-dread-gonzaga-h-s-21-commits-to-richmond/
Dread seems like a good player...Gonzaga, eye test although athletically may be in Sherod mold (we'd take another Sherod!), pedigree w big bro at Penn State...but right now just doesn't have the stats. We still need a couple really good recruits.
Hoping the Spiders can get Aidan Noyes signed next. Seems like a good fit and within reach. Then they will hold on the 5th spot to see if they can get a transfer or maybe Warren-Lemon, who said he wasn’t going to decide until after his final high school season. However, it seems that Warren-Lemon is hoping for an MVP year and a P5 program, so CM won’t be able to get a Philly guy once again.
Native, I'm in with you on Noyes, and leave a spot open to pursue a big transfer. I am wondering if he will leave 2 spots open?
One one hand, it seems like same old Mooney. Missed out on the spot we really could use (Ian) and a kid that had us in his top 5. We seem to be trending in that direction of having Weir only inside, though Burton is good in there. Really need another starter level big, and one more to team up with Sal off the bench.
On the other hand, Randolph had offers - Temple per verbal commits, and Iona and Hofstra carry weight with me due to their coaches. So this is a good signing, and not Jesse P or Schneider.
One one hand, it seems like same old Mooney. Missed out on the spot we really could use (Ian) and a kid that had us in his top 5. We seem to be trending in that direction of having Weir only inside, though Burton is good in there. Really need another starter level big, and one more to team up with Sal off the bench.
On the other hand, Randolph had offers - Temple per verbal commits, and Iona and Hofstra carry weight with me due to their coaches. So this is a good signing, and not Jesse P or Schneider.
Agree. Next year our frontcourt players are Wier/Grace at the 5 and Burton/Sal at the 4. And Grace and Sal will be in their final year. It’s traditionally been hard for Mooney to recruit big men outside of Grant. Perhaps a transfer (like a TJ Cline clone) is out there.
Noyes excited me, but I think Randolph just took that spot. I think we recruit more positionally by class than some believe and Noyes isn't playing big forward. but we'll see.
I wonder if Saint Thomas is still in play. he might be big enough. Powell and Larson are the only other 2 bigs we know about.
I wonder if Saint Thomas is still in play. he might be big enough. Powell and Larson are the only other 2 bigs we know about.
we need that 6'6 - 6'8 athletic F in the Burton or Cayo mold. We're just better historically with that kind of player, Harp & Bucknor come to mind too. A guy who can also help us rebound, give us versatility to guard on D, play above the rim to some degree. We missed out on Hicks, Schieffelin, Gianni Thompson, Casey Simmons.
Randolph and Dread just seem like the same kind of player so was a bit surprised. Randolph called himself a combo guard. Will be interesting to see what they can do defensively, we can play 3 guards offensively & u always need shooters, tho Dread doesn't have any sort of volume to judge that very much. My worry is how versatile defensively/athletically our roster will be in a few years. Still have 2 spots, I think we'll get a big eventually & they might feel less pressure if Weir is looking really good. That lengthier forward is what we lack and strike out on the most imo.
I did have to laugh at JOC article stating "The University of Richmond’s Chris Mooney is a Philadelphia native who has often recruited that area through 16 years as Spiders’ basketball coach." Uh John, did you leave out the word unsuccessfully in that sentence? We haven't had a scholarship recruit from there in 12 years!! But I think JOC and the coaches have obviously been reading the boards recently re: Philly.
Randolph and Dread just seem like the same kind of player so was a bit surprised. Randolph called himself a combo guard. Will be interesting to see what they can do defensively, we can play 3 guards offensively & u always need shooters, tho Dread doesn't have any sort of volume to judge that very much. My worry is how versatile defensively/athletically our roster will be in a few years. Still have 2 spots, I think we'll get a big eventually & they might feel less pressure if Weir is looking really good. That lengthier forward is what we lack and strike out on the most imo.
I did have to laugh at JOC article stating "The University of Richmond’s Chris Mooney is a Philadelphia native who has often recruited that area through 16 years as Spiders’ basketball coach." Uh John, did you leave out the word unsuccessfully in that sentence? We haven't had a scholarship recruit from there in 12 years!! But I think JOC and the coaches have obviously been reading the boards recently re: Philly.
Interesting point about Philly and Mooney. Listening to that podcasts sman linked and what I read the Temple coach seems to have a really good network and rapport with the Philly area AAU programs and schools. Obviously he is based there now and that helps. I do think it is interesting that we never seem to have much of a pipeline, it seems to shift around. Several good players from Richmond over the years (Harp, Brothers, Sherod,Buck, now Nelson), but the very top guys don't seem to want to stay home.
Look at St. Bonnies for example. They really work New England and certaiin prep schools. Probably easier once kids are up there to keep them in the area then convince a kid from FLA or Alabama.
I'm not saying we shouldn't recruit nationally , or internationally - but just seems we don't have a sweet spot. For example, went into Australia once and that was it. Got Gustavson from Finland, but not much in Europe. Texas was hot for us for awhile.
Look at St. Bonnies for example. They really work New England and certaiin prep schools. Probably easier once kids are up there to keep them in the area then convince a kid from FLA or Alabama.
I'm not saying we shouldn't recruit nationally , or internationally - but just seems we don't have a sweet spot. For example, went into Australia once and that was it. Got Gustavson from Finland, but not much in Europe. Texas was hot for us for awhile.
I hear ya, but now all the top talent tends to congregates at the same prep schools and AAU programs.
In today's piece on Wilson, JOC notes Mooney says it's unlikely we'll bring in five high schoolers in this class, saving a scholarship for a potential transfer.
I don't think it's a bad idea given the depth we seem to have this year, but we really do a need a quality big, whether it's with the last 2021 or a transfer who will be immediately eligible.
I don't think it's a bad idea given the depth we seem to have this year, but we really do a need a quality big, whether it's with the last 2021 or a transfer who will be immediately eligible.
I think there's a moneyball/Gladwell style argument to be made that the smart play is to exploit the abundance of 6-4 to 6-6 wings with clear ability to play at the A-10 level, and the inefficiency of power conferences to choose really superb sub-6-foot guards, and then utilize the transfer portal to supplement with big men.
There's just so much competition for the 6-8 and above set coming out of high school that there seems to be a much greater chance of either (1) spending a lot of time and resource to lose out at the last minute to Clemson, or (2) have to reach a little bit on talent.
There's just so much competition for the 6-8 and above set coming out of high school that there seems to be a much greater chance of either (1) spending a lot of time and resource to lose out at the last minute to Clemson, or (2) have to reach a little bit on talent.
Kneepad, you make a lot of sense. It does seem we have created holes in the past by concentrating on bigger targets, only to lose out to the ACC or BE, and that lose out ratio is much higher for anyone 6'8" or larger. Transfer market is likely more profitable, but very crowded too. I do hope we still target guys like Ian, they can be a game changer.
My recruiting whisperer had indicated that we were very close on Grant Williams (Celtics rookie). If we had landed him, no billboard ever happens and we are likely talking about aiming for NCAA's 4 out of 6 years (in a pandemic free world). We just need a closer, and typically that really has to be the head coach.
My recruiting whisperer had indicated that we were very close on Grant Williams (Celtics rookie). If we had landed him, no billboard ever happens and we are likely talking about aiming for NCAA's 4 out of 6 years (in a pandemic free world). We just need a closer, and typically that really has to be the head coach.
This is a really sound argument. The only fly in that ointment is that Mooney does not have a terrific record in the transfer market. You have TJ Cline and then a bunch of misses or reaches in his 15 years, when you look at big men transfers. So, I kind of seem the same issue presenting itself.
A high quality big man is still going to have the allure of other BCS programs to choose from, whether they are a high school or college transfer. At the end of the day, Mooney still has to close the deal.
It looks like Dayton is in the same boat as us on trying to land a PF type/size in this class. They did sneak into the top 5 on Ian. Now they are awaiting a decision on a 6'9 forward out of NJ, who is deciding between Miami, Providence and Dayton in early Oct. This will be interesting to see who/if we can land vs them. The difference I see is that we don't seem to have the ability to pivot when we miss on our long term recruits, where Dayton seems to be able to jump into that top 5 after missing on initial targets.
I see no reason to go for another smaller wing. we need another Burton type who can play big or small forward. or a Cayo type who came in having played guard but got big.
I think the next 2 (1 likely via transfer) have to be over 6'6" and 200 bare minimum.
I think the next 2 (1 likely via transfer) have to be over 6'6" and 200 bare minimum.
Totally agree with this statement. In addition, UR has the best chance with a player trying to “move up”. That is better than taking a flyer on a player that may not develop, but that has to be a fall back plan only. To truly compete on a regular basis, the Spiders need to land some P5 quality post players that may not get as much playing time at a P5 school.
Schieffelin, Hicks, Larson. These were all guys that should have been within our reach. But Mooney can't close. We weren't going up against UNC, Kentucky and Duke. Another failure. Another excuse.
Will be interesting if we get slapped by Kentucky, then lose to a weak team in that bubble. What does Mooney do? Wilt?
We had all the momentum in this class when Nelson committed and we were getting press as a top 15-25 team and Mooney CANNOT CLOSE. Typical. I think I am officially triggered.
Will be interesting if we get slapped by Kentucky, then lose to a weak team in that bubble. What does Mooney do? Wilt?
We had all the momentum in this class when Nelson committed and we were getting press as a top 15-25 team and Mooney CANNOT CLOSE. Typical. I think I am officially triggered.
Maybe #32?
#32 Richmond 2020-21 Preview — Three-Man-Weave
Chris Mooney silenced an irrational fan faction antsy for his upheaval last year. Now, with everyone back in action, can he keep the train rolling as the A-10’s prohibitive favorite?
www.three-man-weave.com
yes, you are officially triggered. where did this come from?
he closed on everybody on this top 25 team roster, and 3 really good looking players in this class. no coach gets to snap his fingers and pick a kid. not every kid wants Richmond. and that's ok.
sman, it's just the old mindset of not being able to close on our top targets. Yes, we got Nelson, that is great - I was hyped. But missing on the other top targets in this class in Schieffelin and Hicks especially. Can't seem to win those.
Hopefully the staff knew they didn’t have a shot at landing a big man this year and that is why they were “holding” a spot for a transfer.
The question is whether they can land a high quality recruit in the 4th spot. I am sure the board would like to see the staff close on one of our “top targets”, but the list is getting awfully short.
Personally, I think the current staff doesn’t have the ability/resources to recruit more than a 3 player class.
The question is whether they can land a high quality recruit in the 4th spot. I am sure the board would like to see the staff close on one of our “top targets”, but the list is getting awfully short.
Personally, I think the current staff doesn’t have the ability/resources to recruit more than a 3 player class.
No point in aiming higher if you can't land one of these three. These are the type of guys that should be right in our wheelhouse.
Radio Silence from '05 since the Hicks decision. I somehow equate his activity on here to us having something good in the works in the pipeline.
I guess I will just carry on with lowering my expectations on the recruiting front.
I guess I will just carry on with lowering my expectations on the recruiting front.
Borrowing some comments from an abandoned thread.
We are getting close to comparison time. Obviously, CM has learned something because he established early this Summer that this years class would be 3-4 high schoolers and then the transfer market would be targeted.
This is the concern. I do believe that recruiting has improved, but I also think that this year’s team is more a product of bad luck turned good than anything else.
We are getting close to comparison time. Obviously, CM has learned something because he established early this Summer that this years class would be 3-4 high schoolers and then the transfer market would be targeted.
This is the concern. I do believe that recruiting has improved, but I also think that this year’s team is more a product of bad luck turned good than anything else.
Luck is really not a factor in recruiting. If you’re out recruiting and a young man likes what he hears and sees
he makes his choice. His choice has several factors that are intangible. The list of those reasons can be pretty long.
But luck really doesn’t play here In my opinion.
he makes his choice. His choice has several factors that are intangible. The list of those reasons can be pretty long.
But luck really doesn’t play here In my opinion.
I think the "luck" he referenced was related to the Sherod and Grant injuries that allowed for this 5 man senior class. Without those injuries, both Sherod and Grant graduate this past year and we are looking at a very uncertain year this year, trying to replace both of them.
I mean we would be looking at starting Matt Grace right now. This is why not missing on recruiting is so important.
... or, it’s the start of a genius strategy to ensure injuries among older players to create super classes every couple years??
This is an excellent point, this why depth is so important. In one respect, it is good that we are loading up on wings. Crabtree is battling back from injury and already dealing with another one.
But on the other hand with our strikeout so far on , what if Burton has an injury, or transfers, or who knows. And I am the biggest Andre Weir fan on here, but he hasn't played one minute of D1 hoops yet. Maybe he ends up being a pretty good big man, and maybe Burton at the 4 is very foul prone - I think we have seen that already a bit.
We really could have used another good big in this class.
I didn’t look at it that way, and yes I suppose that would be luck on one hand, and bad luck for the players.
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