Two Offers
- Thread starter spiderman
- Start date
Literally, no Spider fans believe we should be getting Top 100 recruits. NO ONE.
What we do believe is that we should be able to compete for recruits that have some BCS offers and other AAC, A-10, MWC school like offers. And that we shouldn't be losing repeated recruiting battles to programs like Boston U. And finally, that we shouldn't be signing kids regularly that literally we are their only offers or they have one or two really low major offers. And finally, we should have a higher than a 40% success rate in recruiting.
Mooney has failed for so long at recruiting, it is all some of us can remember and it is now our learned experience with Richmond basketball. As an A-10 school with a wonderful campus, facilities, and academic offerings we can and should be doing much much better than we are.
my top 100 comment was only in reference to what I think it would take to win in a situation like last year (i.e. with almost all minutes and production from underclassmen) ... not that I think anyone expects top 100 recruits.
our teams are always better with upperclassmen in major roles.
our teams are always better with upperclassmen in major roles.
This I agree with, it's unrealistic to think that we will be good with underclassmen. This was the crux of my argument last summer about why we would not likely be all that great in 2018-2019 in spite of the assertion by several people who said we returned a ton of experience.
I think what's missing though is that we will need guys we sign this year to be ready in another 2 years. That's why we can't be sitting on our duff letting a year go by with only one recruit coming in. It has an impact and our past 6(?) seasons we've seen the impact of having very uneven experience within our starting line-up.
A program either wins by recruiting top level talent (Duke, NC, KY, etc.) or by getting second level talent and skillfully coaching them up (Tarrant).
We do neither. Under current circumstances, this isn't going to change based on 14 years of data.
We do neither. Under current circumstances, this isn't going to change based on 14 years of data.
the last 2 were awful but it's not like every year of the 14 was bad. we can win.
54% of the time over 14 years.
We can do better and should be doing a lot better giving our investment in the program and what our school has to offer.
8 winning seasons
2 .500 seasons
4 losing seasons
CM has posted some decent seasons but 6 of his 14 years have been duds for the most part (7 if you count the 16-15 season in 2008). He’s only had five 20 win seasons which these days is a reasonable expectation of what you need to post to have ncaa (and to a lesser extent NIT) aspirations. One of those took CBI success to get.
I give him a pass for years 1-2 when the cupboard was bare but it’s at best a mediocre showing in total. Yes we can win but it feels like we’re treading water in so doing.
What about Burton screams "star?" We just had our highest rated recruit ever under Mooney, and he averaged about five minutes a game as a freshman. Burton is an average A10 recruit. He may seem like a bigger deal to us because we almost never beat any other A10 schools for recruits, but that doesn't make him a star.
My goodness, he said hoping. Pretty much every star we have ever had did not scream star when we got them. If they did, they would be at a top school. He said he hopes Burton can be a star. We all do. Well, except maybe you because then you could not be so negative about him. Do you really have to continue your negative talk about guys who have not even played for us yet?
I am thrilled we got Burton, but that doesn't seem to matter much around here. To most on here, it is not who we got, it is who we did not get. They just do not know how the recruiting process works and think we should get everyone we go after.
Can someone explain to me why, as a Spider, it would be wrong or unrealistic to "hope" Burton becomes a star?
https://richmondspiders.com/news/2018/11/14/mens-basketball-tyler-burton-signs-with-spiders.aspx
https://richmondspiders.com/news/2018/11/14/mens-basketball-tyler-burton-signs-with-spiders.aspx
Of course we all hope every recruit becomes a star. The way Spiderman described it made it seem as if that was likely to happen with Burton so we didn't need to worry about signing anyone else for next year since we probably already got our "star."
Sorry for trying to impose realistic expectations here.
Sorry for trying to impose realistic expectations here.
Read it again. Not even close to what he said. He said we need a star and another solid player. Stop making things up to try to back up your negative attitude.
Ok. Well then I hope we sign a "star" to fill this last spot then. It'll be tough, considering we don't seem to be actively recruiting anyone, but I'm sure Mooney will pull it off somehow.
That would give us three stars next year, since we already have the all-time leading scorer in program history by the end of his sophomore year in Golden and one of our best point guards ever in Gilyard. I wonder how many stars Mooney needs to make us competitive again? Five? Six? Ten?
That would give us three stars next year, since we already have the all-time leading scorer in program history by the end of his sophomore year in Golden and one of our best point guards ever in Gilyard. I wonder how many stars Mooney needs to make us competitive again? Five? Six? Ten?
From just my perspective, I get frustrated that we fare very poorly in the 3* pool (understandable I suppose) but get more frustrated by regular failures in the 2* pool and that we end up with a lot of guys who are in no one’s pool. A lot of this is cyclical, it’s hard to get good guys when you have a long track record of being absent from the ncaa.
If we are going to lose 95% of the higher end recruits to P6 then we better win 95% of the guys against lower tier conferences we compete on. We aren’t winning 95% of those guys.
Thanks for making the point that many of us have been trying to make all year: A great coach can win with all sorts of players. A bad one can't win with good players. We need a new coach.
Your opinion is one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is you might not have a clue.
That's rich but unsurprising. So, ulla, are you suggesting that we are capable of winning a national championship with the caliber of recruits you cited? Do you believe Mooney is as good a coach as Beard? Do you find it odd that Mooney's name has not come up once for any coaching opening in the country during the past three years?
Did you notice what is written above the @LamarBigs in your post? It says COACH Big. That is the main difference between TT and Mooney. The other difference of course is that Texas Tech is long, athletic, and plays great defense.
Great, your thrilled we got Burton. In another thread, you would be OK, if we just saved our two open ships for next year if we couldn't land good players this year. Well, given S-man's accurate assertion that we had no stars in our currents freshman class but a couple nice "complimentary players". You have to hope Burton is a bonafied stud, otherwise we have two classes with no star players. Tough to build a consistent program like that.
Had you been around here for more than the past year, you would realize that this type of recruiting of complimentary players, not filling classes completely, or filling classes with last minute over recruited players is a pattern. That is why so many of us are "negative" as you say. This pattern keeps repeating itself. Appears it still is right now.
8 years is a pretty good sample size. I'll gladly eat crow if CM leads us to 25 wins and the NCAA's next year and then builds on that run with improved recruiting and more tournament trips. I'm not a basketball expert, I never coached basketball, never been to a UR practice but I did get a degree from UR and my eyesight is quite good. I love my alma mater and support our players but what I've witnessed the last 8 years isn't championship basketball and every other school playing at our level or higher would have made a change already. Like I said, I'll gladly eat crow if CM turns this program into a top 3 A-10 squad...I'm sure all the "pro-Mooney" folks will do the same if he comes up short and won't keep making excuses
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I'm not saying I think the freshman class are bench players. I think we have guys in that class that can be starters on a good A10 team. probably not the go to stars, but starters. just none should have been starting as freshmen if we had a strong roster, and none would have if we didn't have those defections.
I know. I think "complimentary players" is a good term to describe our current freshman class. Woj, Goose, and Grace are all players who can make impacts on an A-10 team and I think Woj and Goose could start on an A-10 squad (Grace is more back-up material) as Juniors and Seniors.
Sal is probably the one player on the freshman class that has star "potential". He could very well be a Justin Harper type player that develops later. Likewise, he could also be a Deion Taylor type player, that doesn't as well. Time will only tell.
But you are correct in that we didn't have any obvious Kevin Anderson, K-Zero, Gilyard or Golden players as freshman. Guys you knew he were going to be stars. So, we pretty much have to get one this year. Burton seems like a good get, but the last two slots, have to be filled and filled with high quality players, not the typical late Spring signee that we have often seen from Mooney.
Funny. I give no pass - I didn’t want to back then either. It was simply a harbinger of things to come with regard to his inability to adapt. I will argue that the cupboard wasn’t bare. We just didn’t have a coach in place to make it work. Sound familiar?
Ulla - when did you become a jerk? I used to enjoy you. But you are intolerant and intolerable these days.
Thanks, K. All the negativity is pretty sad. Good thing is you are one of only a few that I don’t have on ignore. Best to you! Go Spiders!
Facts matter, stats matter, and reality of where our program has been for years and is trending is hard for some to swallow. Time to get on the reality train. You can ignore all of us, but that doesn't change the state of our program. If you want to ignore me, I will wear that as a badge of honor.
Maybe? We didn’t have any real guards. Oumar running point? I don’t know that any coach could have really adapted to that roster.
But it was a harbinger in that he tried to fit square pegs...
I appreciate that, Ulla, and I hope you will not ignore me yet. I’m not ignoring you, either. You have been pretty personal with your responses lately, though, and that hasn’t coincided with your never say die attitude.
I hope that you can turn it back around, to at least hate the message and not the messenger.
